Let's talk *gasp* New Jersey

OK, there's a chance I may be getting a job in New Jersey, and if it's offered (unless I get an offer in Vermont, Wisconsin or Ohio) I'll be taking it.

I know it's restrictive there, and I haven't been able to find anything other than the batfe website outlining their laws in legalese.

Specifically, I'd like to know about assault weapons, handguns, magazine capacities & banned ammo. It looks like you can keep some stuff w/a C&R license (ammo) but who knows.

In CA, when I got orders there, the DOJ allowed assault weapons registration for active military in CA. I know there's nothing similar, but we can dream, right?

Before you go into the "Don't go there!" or "You'll regret it!" stuff, realize that if I take this job I'll have no other option, beyond living in PA and commuting into NJ.

Before you go into the "Don't go there!" or "You'll regret it!" stuff, realize that if I take this job I'll have no other option, beyond living in PA and commuting into NJ.

Come on over, the air is free! I think we have a sign on our Jersey borders that say's "Welcome to Pennsylvania, America starts here"

Housing is cheaper, schools are mostly better, taxes mostly lower, and gun laws massively better.......

Yeah, I am not even sure that NJ is part of the US anymore. They rebuked the Constitution of the United States years ago.

:(

Come on over, the air is free! I think we have a sign on our Jersey borders that say's "Welcome to Pennsylvania, America starts here"

That may be Plan B, but if I am forced to live in NJ, I'd like to know what I'm getting into.

I second the "live in PA, commute to NJ" option. That's what I do, and let me tell you, even if I had to commute 100 miles each way, I'd still never live in New Jersey.

I save several thousand dollars a year on property taxes alone. Other various cost of living expenses are also far cheaper west of the Delaware.

The only way I'd consider taking a job in New Jersey is if it paid enough for me to be able to afford to commute from PA or another free state by helicopter :neener:

You mentioned "getting orders" before. Is this job a military posting? or a regular job?

I guess the idea of taking a job where I couldn't freely exercise my 2A rights just makes no sense to me (since a big reason why I work is so I can play with my toys in my off time) and I just can't imagine that there is no work in Utah or other free states ... keep in mind that you can't compare dollars to dollars without taking into consideration the cost of living someplace try running the numbers to see how far a dollar goes in each place http://www.bestplaces.net/col/ )

Guard job, so my options are limited. Unlike a civilian, I can't just say, "Let's move to XXX" unless a Guard unit there hires me. I can't quit, either.

Again, thanks for the "don't go there" input but I really need to know some specifics about NJ laws.

Carrying a gun unemployed is not as appealing as having a good paying job that would temporarily have me living someplace like NJ. I made it through CA and I could make it through there.

Where in New Jersey would this NG job be? A friend is an instructor for them. I believe the base that would likely employ you is not too far from Pennsylvania. I sold guns in New Jersey for nine years. In NJ, there are only a few prohibited forms of ammunition. Just stick to conventional stuff and you'll be okay. Fire off the flechettes and tracers before you go to NJ. Hollowpoint bullets are regulated more strictly than solids, but not illegal.

New Jersey has a list of 17 rifles and shotguns banned by name, as well as any weapon that is "substantially similar" to the ones on the list. Any AK-47 or its clones is forbidden. You can have VEPRs.

M1 Carbines are prohibited. AR-15s are prohibited, post ban models are okay as long as they do not say AR-15 on them. SKS rifles with fixed magazines are legal. SKS rifles with detachable magazines are not legal.

Magazine capacity is limited to 15 rounds. Watch out for your Marlin 60 or similar .22. If it accepts more than 15 rounds (Marlin 60) and is a semi auto, it is an assault weapon even though it is not named on the list. A few old .22 semi autos can function with .22 short cartridges as well as .22 Long Rifle. The magazines for these rifles will hold more than 15 .22 Shorts, so be careful.

Semi automatic shotguns that hold more than six rounds are illegal. If you rigged up an 1100 with an extended magazine tube, get rid of the tube.

Run a search for Evan Nappen. He wrote a book on New Jersey gun laws. You can buy it from the site.

This pdf file has the NJ ugly gun law. (http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf)

Good luck. If you like to hunt, New Jersey residents can take pretty much all the deer they want. Some DMZs have daily bag limits.

Ah, well you're kinda stuck then.

Here's a good place to start when hunting down the laws http://www.handgunlaw.us/

So what part of NJ they gonna stick you? Is living in PA and commuting completely out of the question?

You may choose to live in New Jersey, but you are not being forced. Only you can decide what your rights and freedom are worth, but taking this job, no matter what it pays, is optional.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

That link is the current applicable laws in New Jersey. BB guns are firearms. Most military rifles are illegal assault weapons. 20 and 30 round magazines are illegal, concealed carry is non-existent, hollowpoint ammo is illegal, a firearm purchaser's card is required (an onerous process, I've been told), and among all the others, toy guns are banned.

Ah, thanks guys. I used to rely on packing.org but even before they shut down they were a little out of date.

Commuting wouldn't be out of the question, but most likely an hour plus. Depending on the housing markets in the area, of course I'd prefer to live where it's a)more "free" and b)less expensive, but an hour is a long commute. If the job come available, it would be with the NJ ANG. Great guys, great unit, unfortunate location for someone like me who is a gun enthusiast.

I know that if I did go there I'd be storing several things outside of the state.

Funny, when I was in SARCO last week, they had what looked to be a WASR or SAR-1 that didn't have a "Not For Sale In NJ" tag on it.

I just couldnt pay taxes consciously knowing that they are going to fund the salaries of constitutional thieves. I won't tolerate it as its bad enough that my federal tax dollars go to fun such nonsense.

It is a very simple decision but a serious one as I am an American and choose to live like an American. NJ, NY, CA, and IL refuse to accept the written law that this great country laid out 200+ years ago.

:)

My parents moved out of NJ in 98 before a lot of the legislation came into place. I was 15 at the time.

I thank them many times a year that we do not live there any more.

You cannot pay me enough to go back to living in hell.
(I feel the above line is TAKING THE HIGH ROAD)

And I lived in South Jersey in the Country, or what was considered that, the ground where I used to deer hunt became housing developments, the farm fields became car lots, and the people got meaner. Gun Laws got worse, and the commute times went up.

If I were you I wouldn't move there. Not trying to discourage you, but again. You Cannot pay me enough to go back to living in hell.

Again, I'm trying to get information on gun laws in New Jersey, not provide a soap box for tirades about liberty, taxes & freedom. Please look elsewhere to discuss that.

sierrabravo45, thanks for the words, but as I wrote above I may be limited in locations where I can end up. Since NJ is a potential ANG unit, I need to get more information.

NNJ here... I tried finding it in non-legalese, and was unsuccessful. Title 2C, Chapters 39 and 58 describe most of the gun laws. And 2C:3-4 through 2C:3-6 will cover HD/SD laws.

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/

Just click Statutes on the left, then click the '+' next to Title 2C.

High Road NJ Permit Thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=321451&highlight=NJ)

High Road NJ HD Thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=322786&highlight=NJ)

As for the housing market, good luck. The real estate market plunge doesn't really apply here, it's always a sellers' market, and rents are pretty outrageous. But local average salaries compensate for that. When you're choosing a final location, the further you get from NYC the more reasonable rent and house prices are.

While the no CCW sucks, and it takes forever to get handgun permits, everything else is pretty good. Depending on where you live, you are less than an hour away from city, mountains, countryside, and beaches all at the same time.

The PA to NJ commute is doable, but depending on where in the state the job lands, it could be unbearable... The closer to NNJ (and NYC) you are, the thicker the traffic gets. A friend of mine used to commute from Easton, PA to Secaucus, NJ and he averaged 2.5 hours each way.

What particular section of NJ are you looking at?

If I were to live there it would be southern NJ, outside Atlantic City.

Thanks for those links, I'm originally from MA so living in a state like NJ would be difficult, but not impossible.

Glad I could help.

If you do eventually decide to come to the NJ, welcome.

If you're close to NYC, you could theoretically commute from Connecticut, THROUGH NYC and into NJ by train. Basically you'd do what most NYers do, but you'd ride the train all the way. It might be 1.5 hours on a train, but consider this: there are currently tax paying NYC residents living in the suburbs of Boston(!) who commute THREE HOURS to jobs in NYC.

If you're in central NJ, well, just suck it up and live there. Look, commuting is ok when you're not driving... just get an iPod and ride the train. But imagine things like crappy winter weather, jack-knifed big rigs causing 3 hour delays and well... you can see where your work might get hampered.

You want gun laws? How about this one? As soon as the first smart gun is available for sale in this state, all other types of handgun will be illegal for sale here.

Forget getting a permit to carry. We do have CCW here, they just won't give you the permit, unless you're the governor's brother-in law.

Ironically, the only weapon you can legally carry in the Land of Lautenburg, is a gun. I won't type the list of what you can't carry. It's easier to tell you what you can carry- Nuttin', not even pepper spray. I even had an axe handle confiscated once. Posession of a slingshot is a felony. Permits are required for air guns and muzzle loaders, except for front stuffing long arms, and I'll bet that changes before long. There was a bill before the state legislature that would ban .60 flintlock muskets. I'm not sure what happened with that.

We probably have the highest crime rate, for a state, in the country. Camden has been voted the most dangerous city in the US several times. Trenton, Newark, and Passaic aren't much better. If you stray too far from the boardwalk, Atlantic City is pretty dangerous, too.

I live in South Jersey. Public transportation here is a joke, unless you live in the western burbs, near Philly (and Camden). Then it's easy to get to Philly or Camden. The Patco High Speed Line is the train you would take, but it doesn't go any further east than Lindenwold, still about 45 minutes from AC. All the tax money goes to North Jersey. There is a NJ Transit train that runs between Philly and AC. I think the last one runs a 11:00 AM.

We have the highest taxes, and car insurance rates in the country.

And, we're about to do away with capital punishment. Criminals are coddled here.

Live in Pennsylvania. The commute is worth it.

I'd like to know what I'm getting into.

Slingshots are a felony in NJ.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

Don't go there! You'll regret it!
:D
But yeah I agree if living in PA and commuting is an option DO IT!

If you absolutely must go to NJ, move to where I am, South NJ. There's less of the big-city problems of the North which has heavy NYC influence. If you stay out of Camden, there's not much crime either. That said, the oppressive state laws and taxes still apply. Speaking as a lifetime NJ inhabitant, I'd have to say that you'd probably be much happier living in PA and commuting to NJ.

Enough people have already told you don't move to NJ so I'll resist the urge to pile on.

Having said that, most of the state is quite nice and scenic. You can live near ACY and enjoy a culture that would be much more familiar to you and the rest of the civilized world. NJ gets a (deservedly) bad rep due to the densely populated areas near NYC. It's also known to be a state with an inexplicably high tolerance for corruption, organized crime, and government waste at all levels. I don't know why, I surmise it's ingrained in the state's DNA.

You're from Massachusetts, huh? MA is a paradise compared to NJ. Yes the gun laws are that bad. It takes up to a year just to get permission to buy a handgun, after which you have 90 days to exercise the privilege. And you should know a "one gun per month" bill is likely to pass soon. Do the math...

State parks and recreation facilities have prohibitions on just about every activity that might be construed as fun. I call it the "land of NO". As in no fishing, no hunting, no biking, no hiking, no skating, no camping, no trespassing, no rollerblading, no parking, no smoking, no drinking, no swimming, no campfires, no skateboards, no ... It's the ideal nanny state.

Where do you think Bruce Springsteen got the lyrics "do what you like but don't do it here"?

Got time for an anecdote? Good. Several years ago (pre-THR days) I was hiking along the Appalachian Trail in northern NJ, and took a break to nap on a rock. I woke to find a park ranger with her gun drawn and pointed at me! She demanded to search my backpack, in my drowsy state I just said OK and she did. So what's the problem, I asked. She was "investigating a report of a man with a gun." Needless to say it wasn't me. After that I hiked on and came upon several more park rangers looking for this poor schmuck who could have been from anyplace, Maine to Georgia, just going about his business.

The sad fact is, being a NJ native, I didn't think anything of the encounter. Is that a place where you want to live?

I was born and raised there. I didn't adapt well. I escaped. I now have a 90 minute commute, sometimes twice that. It's worth it.

Anyway, I said I wouldn't pile on. Since I'm not doing well with that it's time to hit the submit button.

Well, if you're really going to do it, here's a trick that might help you decide where to relocate. Although 2C:58 governs the issuance of firearms purchaser id cards and handgun purchase permits, the towns pretty much do whatever they want. Although this law says they have 30 days to process your application, they all take longer.

Some towns will demand a set of fingerprints and about $65.00 every time you apply for a permit to purchase a pistol. These towns will make you wait ninety or more days to get the permit.

Some towns will make you submit a fresh set of prints every year, then charge you $2.00 for each permit you request that year, and process the applications in a week to ten days.

A few towns actually obey the law. Once they have your fingerprint card, they will give you your handgun permits in a week for $2.00 each. This is what the law actually allows, but most towns do whatever they want. These are the gun friendly towns, although this is a relative term in the state.

On the plus side, the shore is beautiful and if you're single, you'll be all over it. The food is among the best in the country. Atlantic City I can do without, but some people love the place.

If you like dirt bikes, you'll be in heaven in the Pine Barrens.

These are the gun friendly towns
Can you compile a list of these gun friendly NJ towns? That would probably be the most useful thing anyone could post here.

Thanks, all - I appreciate keeping it "on topic," despite temptations. ;)

ASM826, when I got orders to CA, I had no choice whether or not to live there since I couldn't commute to Edwards AFB from NV or AZ - I was forced, in that case. They call them "orders" for a reason, as I had no choice. I was able to deal with that, like passing a kidney stone it's only temporary. That's how I'd view a job in NJ - temporary, as this position would lead to a lifetime of employment living wherever my wife and I want in the country. I have decided what my rights and freedoms are worth, and I've decided that I'm willing to forego mine temporarily to protect yours, even if it means living or working in NJ.

Not to violate my own request and get too OT, rest assured folks if I do go this route I'll do everything in my power to live in PA - don't worry!

BTW Zundfolge great link very interesting thanks.

I moved, praise be to God, and no longer have to deal with New Jersey's anti gun hysterics. Three towns come to mind that didn't screw gun owners: Allendale, West Milford, and Ridgefield Park. There were others, but I worked in the northern part of the state and those are the only ones I remember. Of course, as soon as a new police chief is appointed, the town's policy can change with a memo to whoever does the firearm permits.

Dont move to NJ if you can avoid it! The gun laws are not the worse thing about this state. This place is really the most corrupt state in the nation, and openly so! :barf::fire::cuss:

Enough so called "assault weapons" are legal here providing they do not have too many "evil" features.

Yes you can legally own a "post-94 ban" M1A, AR, or even an AK but you can NOT have a M1 carbine as that is a scary "assault" rifle. :scrutiny:

No mag (even fixed mags for semi-autos) over 15 rounds. So if you have a semi-auto tube fed 22LR from 1930 that can hold 16 rounds that is a deadly "assault weapon" per NJ law. :what:

Do not even think about applying for a CCW permit, even though the law allows for them, your chances of getting one is less than 0%. If you do apply, and when turned down you will have to answer a question that asked "have you ever been denied a permit" in the affirmative! (more bad jo-jo)

Did I mention it is VERY expensive to live in NJ, and the majority of people want to leave this great state? I can not for the life of me imagine why that is the case?

As sig226 says there are some towns that follow the law, and even get you your pistol permit(s), after the initial pistol permit, in about 1 week if you are lucky to be blessed with someone that knows you are not a bad guy since you want a to legally purchase a hand-gun and jump through the hoops. I am lucky enough to live in on of those towns, and the detective that I spoke with didnt bat an eye when I applied for "multiple" permits which I recieved week later.

Check the links to the NJSP website to get most of the story. You could live in PA and commute to AC but weigh that vs the cost and time (roughly at least an hour). If you have anything that fits the assault weapon description NJ uses it's best to leave that somewhere else. If you are elgible for family housing at McGuire AFB (about an hour commute to AC) you might be able to bring NJ illegal assault weapons with you as long as they don't leave McGuire/Ft Dix. Call the Security Police to be sure. If you live on base you would probably go to the State Police to get permits and a firearms id card.

No carry permits unless you're a retired LEO, have a job requiring one, or you're politically hooked (a judge has to okay it).

Outside of AC NJ is pretty rural and if you look at the election of 2004 map most of NJ is red but unfortunately the high population areas are blue. The more rural the area the more gun friendly the chief of police is usually.

If I were you I'd live just outside of AC and put up with NJ for a few years. You can find a decent place to live outside of AC for your Basic Housing Allowance, don't know what the VHA is for Atlantic County.

No more VHA, it's CONUS COLA now I believe.

Getting through NJ to the base I'd be breaking the law, so that's not something I'm comfortable trying. I'll never live on base again, that was an option moving to CA until they told us about the asbestos in the housing. At that point, we had to move in town, where even though I had a military assault weapons permit (MAWP) from CA I was nervous about the idea of the JBTs knocking on the door and confiscating all of my legally owned property.

There is a logistical problem - if I were to move to NJ, I'd have to leave everything gun related somewhere between UT and NJ. That's a fair amount of stuff.

It looks like if I pony up for this job, as good as it would be, I'd have to accept a long commute for it.

There is a logistical problem - if I were to move to NJ, I'd have to leave everything gun related somewhere between UT and NJ.
Or in NH, where it would all be "exercised" according to a carefully developed schedule.

but if I am forced to live in NJ

Are you going to prison there?

Oh, that's right Jersey is essentially a prison...

Actually I think prisoners have more rights than Jersey residents, or so I have been told here by Jersey residents...

If you are elgible for family housing at McGuire AFB (about an hour commute to AC) you might be able to bring NJ illegal assault weapons with you as long as they don't leave McGuire/Ft Dix. Call the Security Police to be sure. If you live on base you would probably go to the State Police to get permits and a firearms id card.

That was my understanding of the law when I was stationed at McGuire/Fort Dix for the last 8.5 years 98-06. Now I didn't really get back into firearms after returning from the UK, but an avid gun owner I worked with lived on base and had weapons that never saw range time or were never taking off base for any reason during his whole tour there. He had a beautiful assortment of black rifles. I did have a few rifles I bought at gunshows over in PA that were NJ legal.

To even be able to look at a firearm in a NJ gunshop you are required to have a NJ Firearms ID card, it is also required for purchasing long guns. If I remember correctly it is around $50 and a 3 month waiting period before they complete the face to face background checks...yes they came on base to interview the folks I put down on my application. Pistol purchase permit is another thing that stopped me from buying any pistols. Also if I remember correctly the permit is only good for 90 days, then you would need to apply for another permit.

I left NJ last year for this volunteer assignment out in Wyoming and will never regret my decision. New Jersey is like the Anti-Wyoming, totally different mindset when it comes to firearms laws and regulations.

Are you going to prison there?

Oh, that's right Jersey is essentially a prison...

Actually I think prisoners have more rights than Jersey residents, or so I have been told here by Jersey residents...

Thanks for the input! :rolleyes:

Adventurer: You do not need to have a New Jersey Firearms Purchaser Identification Card to own firearms in New Jersey, nor do you need it to look at one in a store or anywhere else. You need it to buy one.

You should get one so you can buy more stuff, but you can still avail yourself of all the recreational shooting that you want without it. As long as none of your guns are on the NJ ugly gun list, you're okay. There's a bill in the statehouse to require an FPIC to purchase ammunition, so if you go there, you may need to get the thing for that purpose, but it isn't law yet and it may not pass.

Now THAT is an important point which I seem to have missed thus far. My evil assault weapons might be housed outside of the state, but I could legally own everything else - is that right?

Believe it or not, that's a big help, as I thought it would be like MA where you need a permit to own, not to buy.

Believe it or not, that's a big help, as I thought it would be like MA where you need a permit to own, not to buy.
Currently, there's a law that says it's illegal to possess:
1. A handgun, without first obtaining a permit to carry
2. A shotgun or rifle, without first obtaining a FID card

However, there are (currently) exemptions to those laws, that say (in summary), that you can possess a firearm (be it a handgun, rifle, or shotgun) in your home - that you can transport them (unloaded, locked in trunk or in a locked case, ammo in a separate container) between homes when moving - that you can transport them to/from a target range, place of purchase, or place of repair.

Click Here (http://www.njleg.state.nj.us) for the NJ Legislature web site. Click 'Statutes' on the left, and read 2C:39-5, for the part that says how everything is illegal, then read 2C:39-6 (specifically, 2C:39-6e, which says it's legal in your home, or while moving - 2C:39-6f, which says it's legal to transport to/from a range - 2C:39-6g, which describes how to transport them legally)

I emphasize "currently" above, because there's some new legislation pending that's causing a bit of confusion... it may or may not negate 2C:39-6. Probably not, but who really knows?

Commuting wouldn't be out of the question, but most likely an hour plus. Depending on the housing markets in the area, of course I'd prefer to live where it's a)more "free" and b)less expensive, but an hour is a long commute. If the job come available, it would be with the NJ ANG. Great guys, great unit, unfortunate location for someone like me who is a gun enthusiast.

An hour commute is not bad if having more freedom is high on your priority list.
I have done it for 13+ yrs I live in a rather rural agriculture area and drive to a very urban area for my job.

Currently, there's a law that says it's illegal to possess:
1. A handgun, without first obtaining a permit to carry
2. A shotgun or rifle, without first obtaining a FID card

I am a South Jersey native (exit 0) and was looking into possibly moving back for family reasons. I checked with a local gun club, yes they do exist, outside of Atco, and they stated the same thing. Once you get there, for your guns to be "legal", you will need to get a FID card. Fortunately I still have mine. They used to be good for life unless revoked. They may have changed this however.
In an aside: It's a beautiful place but has many screwed up laws and attitudes. It's many rules and regulations make it almost impossible to do things we take for granted. If that lifestyle is all you know, then you know no better. Most people I know still living there no longer understand me or my mindset as they have never known any measure of real freedom. It's like having your mind in a box.

Once you get there, for your guns to be "legal", you will need to get a FID card.
No, you don't. Again, there are specific exemptions to the possession laws that allow you to possess firearms in your home, and to transport them there when moving, without an FID or a permit to carry.

One could move into NJ from out-of-state, and bring as many rifles, shotguns, and pistols with him as he wanted to (as long as none of them fall into the "assault firearm" category), keep them in his home, transport them to/from his target range, and never, ever obtain an FID card.

Now - some private clubs may have a POLICY that says, "no one shoots here without an FID card". That's different. That's their own administrative policy.... but it isn't state law.

Again, any doubts as to the above: read 2C:39-5, 2C:39-6e, and 2C:39-6f.

I am a South Jersey native (exit 0) and was looking into possibly moving back for family reasons. I checked with a local gun club, yes they do exist, outside of Atco, and they stated the same thing. Once you get there, for your guns to be "legal", you will need to get a FID card. Fortunately I still have mine. They used to be good for life unless revoked. They may have changed this however.

Your club is absolutely wrong, without exception. The exceptions to the permit laws at the end of 2C:39 cover pretty much everything that a New Jersey gun owner is allowed to do anyway. One difference, covered in Evan Nappen's book, is that without an FPIC, you need to go directly from the range to your home, but with it, you can stop and eat lunch.

Thanks for the "Heads Up" :)

An hour commute is not bad if having more freedom is high on your priority list.
I have done it for 13+ yrs I live in a rather rural agriculture area and drive to a very urban area for my job.

Please read post 27, paragraph 2 for insight into my value of freedom. The job I'd be going to wouldn't be a 9 to 5, and adding an hour plus commute each way onto a workday that can reach 12 hours on occasion might be a little much.

Adventurer_96

Sorry if I came across as condescending, it was not meant that way.
I was just saying that in my situation I don't mind the drive.
Most of my drive is on a main highway with very few stoplights.Other than School buses and farm equipment I don't have much in the way of traffic problems.
After a difficult day sometimes the drive gives me a chance to cool down and not make work problems into home problems.

Good luck whatever your choice.

Thanks, we'll see how it goes, I'd prefer to be back in civilization (read: east of the Mississippi) but it's still well up in the air.