[conwict]

Hi guys,

Thought I'd post here with this question in hopes of getting friendly and reasonable responses, which is the norm at THR.

Short background, my parents (and I, until recently, I'm 21) live on a 28 acre tract of land in the NC foothills. Gorgeous woodland with some fields and meadows, plenty of streams. Prime deer hunting country also. They do not hunt but maintain a friendly relationship with a few hunters, whom they allow onto their land for access to thousands of acres of woods. They express clearly to each and every hunter that there is to be no shooting near the house or our driveway, which constitutes the majority of our land.

Basically, the rub is that sometimes people tend to sneak in and hunt closer than they should, or they wander onto our land and ignore the no trespassing signs. And of course any hunter would be tempted to stalk a deer that happened to cross our property line.

But what is really the problem is that we have had two, and now maybe three, dogs shot by hunters. One barely made it into the carport, bloodied, when I was about ten and then expired. Another never came back. And now my parents heard a gunshot this morning - I am at college - and another dog is yet to come back.

I told my mom to get in touch with a game warden and perhaps he or she could help her look; I don't know of any other solutions. She's already been looking around and calling for him, with no luck. Hopefully he'll come back, but that's still two family dogs gone because of these *******s.

I've persuaded them to adopt an "absolutely no trespassing" policy except for one or two friends of the family, but how do we enforce this? Any tips on interpersonal relations with selfish trespassing hunters? Also, we know who shot at least one and maybe two of the dogs. I am not going to lose my cool if I see him, but how can I enforce this policy? We're a good 40 minutes from the sheriff's dept.

Thanks for any input, and thanks for reading a rambling post from a distraught THRer.

C

[conwict]

Oh yeah, before anyone asks, the dogs do not wander off my property. They actually stay fairly close to the house. And even if they did wander off the property, they have collars, and anyone hunting in this immediate area accessed it through our driveway (which is about a mile long and unpaved).

[kawhead71]

conwict,
I can relate. When I was a youngun I found my rabbit dog shot dead a few days after deer season. He was a good beagle, a little too tall by classic beagle standards, (my grandpa suspected some foxhound in the mix) but he was broke off of deer (not fun, but neccessary). My family let a few hunters on our farm, and I'm sure none of them would have shot my dog, so I assumed it was a trespasser. Some hunters will shoot dogs, especially if they see them running deer, but as I said, JJ was broke off deer, so I figured it was some POS that just wanted to kill something.
Be careful!!! "Interpersonal relations" with trespassing hunters can go awry pretty quickly. Witness the Hmong debacle in Northern Wisconsin a while back. 99% of hunters are good decent people that ask permission and close the gates behind them, but that remaining 1% could be armed lunatics for all you know. If they'll cross your posted line and shoot your dog, what else will they do? Don't mix it up with these guys, if you run across them. I believe in sticking up for what's right and what's mine, but in this case you need to let the law handle it. I realize it's gonna take the Sheriff a while to get out by your folks, but I'd rather see you wait than catch a .30-.30 round in the gizzard because you miss your dog.

Hang in there, Brother.

[ArmedBear]

No Trespassing
Blaze orange on the dogs. Cheap, and worth it.

And I'm sorry to hear this.

[Javelin]

Probably the same wannabe's that are talking about hunting wolves in the other post are shooting your dogs. If you ever see one burned up by a flamethrower then they read the "best gun for a wolf pack" thread.

It makes me so mad to see people killing such great animals. I have a soft spot for all canine animals. Every last one of em. Probably shoot to protect one of them than some two legged type.

It just burns me up.

[kawhead71]

I like my dogs more than I like most people I know.

I wouldn't get up at 2am to clean up my bosses puke!

[conwict]

kawhead and others,

Thanks for the words of advice. I was not going to openly accuse anyone of shooting my dog, but rather play it back and forth. "Sorry fellas, we aren't allowing any more hunters here, had a dog shot recently." Wait for a response..."Well that's too bad you don't know who did it, but NO one is going to be allowed here from now on. Please leave."

I don't want to escalate it, by any means. I am also interested in knowing what the legal ins-and-outs are here: if I ask a group of people to get off my property, and they don't, and appear threatening, what is in my legal right to do? I plan on having a gun at hand (it being my property, and with ne'er-do-goods about), but what is my backup plan if they aren't polite? If they say, for example, "Make us?" Guess I could whip out the cell and call the sheriff and then be prepared to defend.

The Hmong thing came to mind for me, also.

[conwict]

ArmedBear, you mean blaze orange collars?

[kawhead71]

You could go sneaky-style on them. Try to appear as if it isn't your property, and tell 'em, "The cat that owns this land is a real hard case. He's up behind the house right now, diggin' a hole just for you guys! I'd get lost if I were you." Maybe not... :)

I don't know, bud. It's a hard situation. There's no telling what people are going to do in this day and age. If you're going to approach these guys, be polite but firm, be prepared and most of all, be alert. If it's an honest mistake, and the hunters cop to it, everything's ok. If it's possible, take a two-way radio with you, and keep in contact with your folks at the house, that way you don't seem isolated to the bad guys (if that's what they turn out to be). The lower element of society seem to like to pick on the unprotected, and if they see you're strapped and in contact with someone they can't see, they might think twice about starting something. The whole idea of self-defense is to never have to shoot anyone. Defuse the situation before it blows up.

Good luck, and be careful. None of us want to lose a friend we've never met.

[1 old 0311]

If you see their truck be carefull NOT to pour a bottle of Iodine into the gas tank. It WILL take out the fuel pump, fuel regulator, and ALL the injectors. :evil:

[conwict]

0311,

That would really be a shame. Then, they'd be stuck with no ride home on property they had no right to be on. I would feel really bad for them!

[Javelin]

If you see their truck be carefull NOT to pour a bottle of Iodine into the gas tank. It WILL take out the fuel pump, fuel regulator, and ALL the injectors.

Be careful not to get yourself shot in the process....

[R.W.Dale]

Oh yeah, before anyone asks, the dogs do not wander off my property. They actually stay fairly close to the house.

Unless you have them fenced in I'll wager money your dogs roam well beyond your property boundary. People have this silly notion that once they buy a couple acres and move out to the country they can "free range" their mutts. Of course they're shocked when their darling pet meets it's demise chasing cows 3 miles down the road. cause after all "They actually stay fairly close to the house".

As a pet owner it's your responsibility to care for your animal. That includes keeping it under your control.

If you find your dog dead on your moms place than you have a problem with trespassers. If you do not find your dog's corpse then YOU have a problem not taking care of your pets.

[kawhead71]

"Free range dogs" They taste so much better than fenced-in dogs! :) kidding.

Good point, krochus. A dog that is shot on someone else's property might not have deserved it, but it's a case of wrong place, wrong time. Come to think of it, there is no right time for Fido to be chasing someone else's chickens.

[conwict]

krochus,

One dog is very old, can't wander far, and the latter tends to stick with the former. Chasing cows 3 miles down the road, I'll give you, is not a valid reason for me to get angry. However, the land we own is the only way to access any of the hunting land for miles around (other than a public road and cutting your own trail)...so if you think it's okay for someone to trespass on my land to access hunting land nearby and then shoot my dog, I'm going to have to STRONGLY disagree.

Whether the dog was technically shot on my land isn't the point, the point is that whoever shot my dog crossed over my land to get to their stand. And their stand is not far from my land. As far as I'm concerned, if they crossed my land to get to land that they basically squat on to hunt, shot my dog, and crossed back over, they are trespassers.

Your point about keeping track of one's dogs is well received, but it is easy to tell how far my dogs go simply by the amount of time they're gone. Generally they don't leave the house for more than 20-30 minutes, meaning they can't go farther than a couple of miles round trip. The nearest house (or sign of civilization) is farther than that, down the driveway a mile and 3 miles or so down a paved road. And it sure as hell pisses me off to think someone would use my land for access - which I generously allow - and then shoot a collared dog, whether or not it was "running deer." If the dog is a problem, they simply need consult me about it.

[R.W.Dale]

So you live in the middle of a Natn'l forest with no neighbors whatsoever for miles and miles. I think you're making a LOT of assumptions. Do you even know WHERE the dog was shot?

I'm not saying that trespassing is OK but I am saying it's much more likely your dog was somewhere where he shouldn't have been.

Again find the corpse and you'll know what kind of problem you have.

Doesn't it seem rather silly for someone needing to keep a low profile (tresspassers) to draw attention to themselves by shooting the neighborhood pets?

[retrieverman]

Oh yeah, before anyone asks, the dogs do not wander off my property.

If I had a dollar for every time I have heard that statement, I would be rich and retired right now.

I am sorry about your dogs, but I put the responsibility of protecting your dogs on you and your family. We are only getting one side of this story, and I would bet that there is more to it.

[Vern Humphrey]

I agree that no one should shoot your dogs on your land -- that's a crime, and they should be prosecuted.

But the evidence you give doesn't support the accusation:

1. A wounded animal might travel a long way before dying -- I've tracked deer for a mile or more after shooting one. Your property is small, and your dog could be just a hundred yards away and not be on your property.

2. Hearing a shot, and then claiming that was the shot that killed a dog whose carcass was never found is quite a stretch.

3. I've heard the old song, "My Dogs Don't Get Off My Property" too many times to believe it -- I've had people say that when I've seen their dogs harassing livestock miles from home.

4. It doesn't make sense for a hunter to shoot a dog -- why would he do that? What's in it for him? It does make sense for a hunter not to fire a shot until he has deer in his sights.

[paintballdude902]

i know a guy that had is best plott hound shot 3-4 years back and he was sooo pissed off he set up a live fire range on half of his land

he did a 3ft barbed wire fence with "live fire gun range beyond this point" signs every 4 ft (made em himself for $$ reasons) then every day at 530 hed go fire off a box of ammo, some times we would shoot for 6-8 hours

[kawhead71]

Who recorded that song, Hank Williams? :D

[Javelin]

4. It doesn't make sense for a hunter to shoot a dog -- why would he do that? What's in it for him? It does make sense for a hunter not to fire a shot until he has deer in his sights.

+1

[Vern Humphrey]

Who recorded that song, Hank Williams?
I forget if it was him or Whoopie Goldberg.:p

[conwict]

So you live in the middle of a Natn'l forest with no neighbors whatsoever for miles and miles. I think you're making a LOT of assumptions. Do you even know WHERE the dog was shot?

I'm not saying that trespassing is OK but I am saying it's much more likely your dog was somewhere where he shouldn't have been.

No, not a national forest. Parents heard a gunshot and dog has been missing since, and all kinds of things could be the cause: broken leg, female in heat nearby, chasing chickens (yes, it's a possibility), or what I originally assumed. There is a lot of empty land around, though, and I feel I am a good judge of the dog's habits. He's been around for about eight years and I think I know what he is up to most of the time. Since there is not anything much nearby, and he is never gone for long, it seems reasonable to assume he doesn't bother the neighbors (who are as I stated 3 miles away).

So if the dog was shot within auditory gunshot range, my initial assumption seems valid. If not, again, I have no idea what happened. The other dog, who was shot and made it up into our carport, was most definitely shot on or very very near the property. So you can see why I would think what I think.

[Steve H]

If you see their truck be carefull NOT to pour a bottle of Iodine into the gas tank. It WILL take out the fuel pump, fuel regulator, and ALL the injectors.

Right after that doesn't happen make sure nobody calls the local law enforcement and doesn't report any tresspassing

[conwict]

1. A wounded animal might travel a long way before dying -- I've tracked deer for a mile or more after shooting one. Your property is small, and your dog could be just a hundred yards away and not be on your property.

2. Hearing a shot, and then claiming that was the shot that killed a dog whose carcass was never found is quite a stretch.
...
4. It doesn't make sense for a hunter to shoot a dog -- why would he do that? What's in it for him? It does make sense for a hunter not to fire a shot until he has deer in his sights.

Regarding 1), and I'm not really to keen on spending your time and my time explaining all the ins and outs, it is a fact that you can't hunt on land near my property without crossing it. That's what infuriates me.

As for 2), I agree, and am currently withholding judgment. Heck, I hope it didn't kill the dog. He's only been gone since this morning, which is very unusual for him.

And 4), maybe in your circles that's true. Where I'm from in NC, lots of hunters are absolute jerks. Just the fact that you're in the InterWeb tells me something about you. You are literate and you put a modicum, at least, of thought into your actions. Heck, you're on THR. But what makes you assume all hunters are like you (if you do hunt)?

Word got around to me about my other dog because the hunter who shot him told a neighbor. So I also happen to know that some of the hunters around my area do not think the way you think.

If the dog was 100 yds off my property, fine. My point is that if he was off my property and was shot, whoever did so crossed my property.

I'm not really trying to defend my actions or my parents' choices. I agree with most of what you're saying, just not the assertion that I can't possibly know my dogs' habits, or that I am making false assertions about my parents' living area.

[jimmyraythomason]

I don't know about the property access laws in North Carolina but here in Alabama, ALL privately owned land is posted by law. A permit signed by the property owner or his agent is REQUIRED to be in the possession at all times while hunting on anothers property. With the wanton killing of dogs also being a class C felony, such an act would be of much interest to the Sheriff or Game Warden.

[Vern Humphrey]

Regarding 1), and I'm not really to keen on spending your time and my time explaining all the ins and outs, it is a fact that you can't hunt on land near my property without crossing it. That's what infuriates me.

Did you back track the dog and find where he was shot?

As for 2), I agree, and am currently withholding judgment. Heck, I hope it didn't kill the dog. He's only been gone since this morning, which is very unusual for him.
Any number of things could have happened.
And 4), maybe in your circles that's true. Where I'm from in NC, lots of hunters are absolute jerks. Just the fact that you're in the InterWeb tells me something about you. You are literate and you put a modicum, at least, of thought into your actions. Heck, you're on THR. But what makes you assume all hunters are like you (if you do hunt)?
I chase tresspassers off my property during hunting season -- I have 185 acres, and like your place, to get to several thousand acres of prime hunting land, people have to cross my property.

But hunters are hunters -- they do things like wear scent-lock clothes, put up deer stands, use scent lures and so on. Why would they do all that and shoot a dog -- and risk scaring off a deer?

[chris26]

It seems very small minded to believe that this fellow is automatically in the wrong or stretching the truth because he claims that his dogs never leave the property. Seems like there is plenty of espousing of one-sided opinions disguised as facts in the Political forum, allowing for no other point of views , yet there is nary a word cast against these posts. My, hypocrisy seems to run deep in these waters! Why don't we give this fellow what he asked for...advice. I don't think he came here asking for criticism or to have his credibility called into question. Here is my advice...it is your land, if you wish to not have hunters on it, don't allow them. If you beleive that they have shot your dogs in the past, that is enough justification for your decision. If you decide to confront these folks, be polite, be firm, have a radio/cell phone and a gun at hand. I would also alert the Sheriff and Game Warden (s) in the area about the issue and what your stance is. It is your land, you have the right to do what you wish. However, I would fully expect you to respect others' land and their wishes when it comes to your dogs as well, if they do happen to roam. I believe that it is about mutual respect. Personally, I beleive that 99.9% of the hunters out there are great folks who respect landowners and their property. However, there are those who do not. Kindly let the respectful ones hunt and the others hunt a different spot to hunt in.
Oh, by the way, seems rather assinine to doubt the credibility of a man coming to ask advice on a topic that affects us all (hunter/landowner relationships) and to automatically assume that there was absolutely no irresponsible acts committed by any hunters in the area. Kindly remember that we are supposed to promote our sport and hunting (or that is what is claimed so often here in THR!) not tear down relationships between the two. And if I had the common sense at the age of 21 to ask advice before I took action, I would be a wiser and better off man today. I am pretty sure that instead of complainig about the younger generation and not insult/question the integrity of those that ask for advice from the older "wiser" generation but rather help them out. But I guess it is easier to cast stones at a man trying to help out his folks from afar off. Best of luck Conwict. Chris

[Avenger29]

Blaze orange on the dogs

Sometimes that doesn't work. A teacher I had back in high school told of one of his friends who was hunting, and a deer came past my teacher's stand with a beagle with an orange collar on it trying to catch it shortly behind. They headed in the direction of my teacher's friend's stand, and a shot was heard. The teacher met his friend back at the truck, who had a big grin and held up an orange collar...

Those kind of people ought to be drawn and quartered.

Oh, and if you find a vehicle trespassing on your property, and you want to disable it w/o doing too much damage, cut the valvestems...

[American_Pit_Bull]

I have heard of several people that will shoot any dog that they see chasing deer. A dog will run a deer to death.

[cobrian45]

I think there are two separate issues here. The trespassing and the dog shooting. I am highly irritable when I find people have been on or are on my land. That is a separate issue. The game warden or S.O. need to be involved in that. I know you feel these are the same people then shooting the dog, but that's not provable unless you catch them at it (difficult to catch them in the act). Trespassing is more easily provable (video) and a game warden will be likely to be on your side if people are on your land with guns whether they were intending to hunt there or not.

Now, for the dog issue I have to say that if they are not fenced there is no assurance they are staying put. I have a beautiful German Shorthaired Pointer and I have to do everything in my power to keep her contained. They are well known for being escape artists. I have spent lots of money and time keeping her where she should be when I'm not with her, including in-ground invisible fence. Why? The only way I can insure her safety is by doing so. Is just shooting any dog you see right? Not necessarily. I've been on both sides of the issue and had livestock involved as well as watching from my stand as packs of everyone elses dogs chase deer from my hunting area. Is it the dog's fault? No. They are being dogs. Will this stop a land owner or hunter from shooting the dog out of frustration? Probably not. There is only one way, truly, to nip the problem in the bud. Keep the dogs safe by keeping them home when you aren't with them. Deal with the trespassing as a separate issue.

I had to edit to say this: I know it's not right to just shoot a dog and it's sure as sh** not right if it is done on your property. On the other hand, those dogs only have you to protect them by keeping them close. It's not the easiest, but it's the right thing. You obviously can't trust people around you to do the right thing, so you have to take it upon yourself to protect them.

[chipperi]

We have 22acres here in NE Tennessee. I have a collection of tree stands in my garage. As I like to hunt my own property I have NO Trespassing/Hunting signs all around the perimeter of my property. Hunting usually takes place in the wee hours of the morning or as the sun goes down. The week before the specific seasons (Doe Buck handgun etc) I run the property around noon on a 4 wheeler and a pair of bolt cutters. I collect all sorts of tree stands illegally placed on my property. I replace them with with a note to stop by the house and meet me and a sherrifs deputy to claim their stand and be charged with trespassing. You know no one has ever claimed one. They probably buy it back from me at a yard sale in the summer. This past year I put an electrified cattle fence along one troublesome section that borders a road along the backside of the property. I was always seeing truck and 4wheeler tracks back there.

[Reyn]

Ive had at least 3 different occasions where people's dogs were running deer off me or past me. This has been on public and private land. Ive NEVER considered shooting them but it did irritate the crap out of me. The last 2 times i managed to holler at the dogs as they were in pursuit of the deer. They looked at me and ran off back in the direction they came.

[Snagglepuss]

Sorry this is black and white to me. Shoot a dog for sport and you deserve to be shot yourself. Who cares if a dog runs a deer to death. The dog is not choosing to do this, its instinct.:fire:

[Vern Humphrey]

Sorry this is black and white to me. Shoot a dog for sport and you deserve to be shot yourself. Who cares if a dog runs a deer to death. The dog is not choosing to do this, its instinct
The dog is not a free agent. It has an owner -- and that owner should be arrested and convicted of tresspassing.

[Snagglepuss]

'Shoot a dog for sport"

This is my main beef.

[CannibalCrowley]

But what is really the problem is that we have had two, and now maybe three, dogs shot by hunters. One barely made it into the carport, bloodied, when I was about ten and then expired. Another never came back. And now my parents heard a gunshot this morning - I am at college - and another dog is yet to come back.

Dog #1 - Definitely shot; but that was what, eight years ago?

Dogs #2 & 3 - Since you've probably already done the logical thing and searched the property for them, they must have left the property and for some reason didn't come back. Whether they were shot or not we'll probably never know; but if so, is sure didn't happen on your property.

[eliphalet]

. Who cares if a dog runs a deer to death.I kinda do.

[R.W.Dale]

Who cares if a dog runs a deer to death.

Shoot a dog for sport and you deserve to be shot yourself.

I prefer to have the deer. A dog is just an animal like any other. They aren't any more special than a chicken, opossum, yak, bison or cat. Anyone who places a dogs life on some form of parity with a person has some SERIOUS mental health issues that require professional help.

What a (*%#$^ up country we live in where we can murder our unborn children without guilt. Yet the harming of an ANIMAL is a felony.

[Blackfork]

At the club lake where I have a lakehouse and deerhunt in the creekbottom behind, we often have dogs that have been dumped. Once the dumped pack was up to 19 dogs. We shoot these dogs on sight. I'll even bait them to a place with an open sack of dog food and shoot them. The SO won't do anything about the dogs. If I live trap them and take them to the pound, THEY kill them. I've caught them under the bridge over the creek sleeping in the heat of the day, sneaked in and used a 12 gauge pump. These dogs don't belong to anyone, so they don't get any protection. Everyone shoots them.

There are three deer and cattle-running dogs who live about a half mile, (not far to a dog) from the lake property. I've seen them run deer and I see them checking my deercams often. They have collars. I know where they live. I'm undecided. Only one has a good nose and can track deer, the others just follow. I've thought about shooting the tracker. I haven't complained to the owner, in case I do decide to shoot. This has gone on over two years.

At the ranch to the north where I shoot doetags we have people who own and live on property inside the exterior boundrys of the ranch property, which is not contiguous. We see their dogs running deer in person and see them on cam. So far, we are not shooting these dogs. They are also about 1/2 mile from their home. The ranch owner is FOR shooting. So far, I'm passing. (I could have killed two with a Garand last spring.) But we also aren't complaining to the dogs owner in case we do decide to shoot. Options open.

There just isn't a cut and dried answer in my case. In your case I hope your dog has showed up.

[conwict]

Guys, I really appreciate the feedback from everyone. I understand this is a very large issue that is also an individual one. Basically, I am satisfied with what I have decided: more vigorous patrols correlated with the hunting seasons, no trespassing signs, and better control of my dog(s). So as you can see I think a bit of tightening-up on both ends is in order here. Again, I am not trying to justify my situation to anyone. I am glad for everyone who both pointed out certain errors in my logic and gave sound advice.


I prefer to have the deer. A dog is just an animal like any other. They aren't any more special than a chicken, opossum, yak, bison or cat. Anyone who places a dogs life on some form of parity with a person has some SERIOUS mental health issues that require professional help.

Javelin, I think that's a loaded statement. Even the most unattached, emotionally cold person must acknowledge that a dog is someone else's property. A dog fulfills certain duties...companion, watch dog, and perhaps even a seeing-eye or assistance role.

Now, I agree that all things being equal, an animal is an animal. But shooting a deer in the wild and shooting an animal which is at the very least someone's property (and at most, perhaps someone's closest companion) are different things. I acknowledge that in some situations it may be the only option - repeated raids on your livestock, or invading your property or hunting grounds with unrestrained intent.

However, you are really tilting the issue when you a) allege that someone (other than PETA freaks) puts dogs on the level of human life, and b) allege that killing a dog is just like killing any other animal, period.

Good day.

[Snagglepuss]

"What a (*%#$^ed up country we live in where we can murder our unborn children without guilt. Yet the harming of an ANIMAL is a felony."

Oh, I agree with you there bud.

[ArmedBear]

WRT blaze orange, you can get vests for bird dogs to make them visible in the field. They also work if you have dogs running around in a yahoo-infested deer hunting area.

http://image.basspro.com/images/images2/95500/95840.jpg

Here's a simple vest for $10, with a large area of blaze, and reflector strips:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&partNumber=51809&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults

This one also functions as a chest protector. More durable, also with blaze orange and reflector strips.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0039956660078a&navCount=1&podId=0039956&parentId=cat602789&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=Search_Results_NYR-cat602789&catalogCode=QW&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat602789&hasJS=true

Blaze will indicate to anyone with half a brain that these belong to someone and are not feral dogs, wolves, coyotes, or whatever. Furthermore, if a hunter shoots at something blaze orange, he can and will be nailed to the wall by game wardens and the courts.

Maybe signage saying: "Hunting or other use only by permission of owner. Access without written permission illegal. Private Property. (Address to go and ask)" or something of the sort, if you don't want to strictly prohibit access to all the land.

Good luck. I love my dogs -- come to think of it, one of them could look like a deer to someone with buck fever. Both, maybe, since they're both red, fast and short-haired. Maybe I'll get some vests, too.

[Snagglepuss]

Great Post. Thanks

[Avenger29]

A dog will run a deer to death

I consider that a good thing. We've got too many damn deer around anyway. Go find yourself another one, Great White Hunter. It shouldn't be too hard...

cattle-running dogs

I can understand about the cattle-chasing dogs...that's harming someone else's property.

My dog doesn't chase deer- she's terrified of them, ever since she got thrown by a buck who she irritated a little too much...

And, yeah, some ******* has taken a shot at my dog before- she had a wound channel down her back with powder burns. So I'm kinda not really friendly towards hunters who think it is fun to shoot a dog.

[MDHunter]

Conwict,

Good on YOU for asking advice, I wish I'd have been as open-minded when I was your age! I hope your dog comes back safe, and good luck in getting the trespassers off your land.

Disregard some of the posts here that seemed to infer things none of us know either way. Use the facts you have, and try to keep assumptions out of the issue.

As for good/bad hunters - just remember hunters are just a subset of the general population, there will be good ones and bad ones, smart ones and idiots, etc - just like we have on the forum, and just like you'll find anywhere in the country.

[Richmond]

4. It doesn't make sense for a hunter to shoot a dog -- why would he do that? What's in it for him? It does make sense for a hunter not to fire a shot until he has deer in his sights.

I just had to comment on this - 99% of the hunters out there are good, respectful sportsmen. On the other hand, you could ask the above question of "why" to the hunters in my county this fall season who managed to shoot:


a cow
a car
a member of their own hunting party (non-fatal)


:eek:

Regarding trespassers, each state will have it's own statutes. Find a friendly lawyer and ask for a rundown. It is the sort of stuff I do for free, as will many lawyers.

Minnesota law, for example, has specific clauses regarding rights to eject a trespasser, etc.

[Kimber1911_06238]

whether the dogs roam or not, it takes a real scumbag to shoot a dog that isn't attacking anything. Those aren't hunters....frankly I am ashamed to call them fellow human beings

[American_Pit_Bull]

Posted by Avenger29:
I consider that a good thing. We've got too many damn deer around anyway. Go find yourself another one, Great White Hunter. It shouldn't be too hard...Just a point to note... There are twice as many domesticated dogs in the US as whitetail deer. (Over 60 million dogs nationwide.)

[tnieto2004]

Of course everyone saying, "YOU DONT KNOW IF THE DOG WAS SHOT!!" forgot to mention that there WAS a dog that made it back to your house (on 28 acre's) and it WAS shot. The OP's question was completely ignored as it often is with selective "reading". He asked for tips on dealing with the other hunters and enforcing policy, not how to be a better pet owner.

[velojym]

Cobrien45,
We have a great GSP. Beautiful, smart, and is great with our baby girl. We do have to keep control of her, though, as she will take interest in nearby forest critters and temporarily forget that she's supposed to stay near the house. Our other dog, a weirdly comical Collie-Catahoula mix, doesn't ever go far from our Shorthair.

I used to work for Animal Control, and I'd have people vigorously insist that their dogs never left their yard, and some of them I'd picked up over a mile from home... in town. It's hard to admit, sometimes, that our dogs are out of our control, but it does happen.

As for confronting the trespassers, I really don't think there's much else you can do other than politely invite them to leave.
Immediately calling the authori-TAHs won't be taken kindly, and should wait until you've seen that the hunters aren't willing to listen to reason. The earlier mentioned idea of keeping in radio contact is a good one, I think. Even if there isn't anyone on the other end, you can talk into a bluetooth type headset as if there was.

[308win]

Many states' hunting regulations have specific provisions for access to private land in addition to the general trespass laws; research yours. Faced with losing hunting privileges because of unauthorized use of private land should be a strong incentive to a hunter; on the other hand, an outlaw isn't going to be deterred.

[Art Eatman]

It's easy enough to work from the assumption that there are those slobs who would shoot a dog, whether or not the dog is chasing a deer. For this thread, why not take it for granted that the dogs haven't been chasing deer?

Okay. The easiest way to ensure no problem is to either pen the dogs in a fenced yard, or have them on leashes and run-lines during hunting season. That guarantees that the dogs won't get out in the woods and be in view of some slob.

Run-line: String heavy-guage wire between two trees or two posts. Clip one end of a fairly long leash to the wire. Put some sort of stop-device (for example, a small piece of wood, hose-clamped to the wire) near each end of the wire so the dog won't get the leash wrapped around the tree or post. Or upset the food pan or water bowl.

[Avenger29]

Hey, Art, some dogs are Houdinis when it comes to collars. Mine can slip out of one easily if she takes a mind to it.

A pen is a good idea. We have one for when we need it- most of the time, when we are home the dog stays in the house, anyway.

[Selfdfenz]

Interesting thread.

I guess if it was my land I would stop allowing anyone to hunt or pass over it for the coming season if for no other reason than it would make it possible to know that any signs of people would be tresspassing. I'd then take action appropriate to the problem. Game cams have many uses. If the guys you let pass over it are the good guys you say they are, they will understand. I know I would.

Having said all that there are houses not too far from my deer hunting area and one or more of them own(s) dogs. I have feeders and game cams out. Been trying to line up a buck for the next generation going on two years now. I had a pretty good survey going till the neighbors dogs started showning up on the game cam photos. The deer had been showing up at various times during the day then the dogs started showing up at all times of the day. The deer all went vampire at the same time.

Then guess what happened....one of the dogs, a lab, started showing up on the night photos too. At that point, no more bambi picts day or night. The deer are still AOW and the season is over. Except for the squirrels and a few crows I'm not seeing any activity in or around the feeding stations. I blame it on the canines.

I will not shoot these dogs. They both have collars and tags a-hanging so good on the owners at least for that. They are bound to be someones pets but I can't figure out where they live or I would have a chat with the owners. I love dogs and have owned many but when someone says with confidence their critters never leave home I just think they often times don't know what they are talking about especially if he dogs are out day and night. Needless to say my kid is disappointed. We spent a good deal of time and $$ making the place deer friendly over the last two years.

Art hit the nail on the head, again.

Best

S-

[R.W.Dale]

With all this talk of game cameras....... Why don't you get some photographic evidence of the trespassers VIA some well hidden game cams.

[rantingredneck]

I can sympathize with both sides of this particular situation.....

I've gone nose to nose with another hunter who threatened to shoot one of my beagles because it crossed a property line despite our best efforts to stop him.

I've also almost shot someone's dog that came after me while hunting on private land I had permission to be on and the dog's owner (not the owner of the land I was on) had just let his pitbull run free since he lived in the country.

That all being said, I would take measures to contain my dogs and to post my property with no tresspassing signs and report all tresspassing to the sheriff's dept along with the tag numbers of any trucks you see parked alongside the road. Don't get yourself into a situation where you may end up getting shot or having to shoot somebody. Research the NC tresspass laws, post your property, talk to your local sheriff's dept about your problem, and then observe and report what you see.

[TimM]

I am a dog lover (currently have three), I have had hundreds of dogs over my lifetime. When I moved to Boston from WV I divided my pack of 42 beagles among my family and friends and gave my bird dogs to my father.

I learned a long time ago to keep my dogs kenneled during gun season. I even had a dickhead game warden shoot one of my beagles because he said she was running deer - B.S.... that dog was straight as they come.

I even know of a fella that painted C-O-W in blaze orange on the side of his prize heifer and some F***** shot her right through the center of the "O".

The only thing you can do is kennel the dogs and if you ever find out who shot them prosecute - they will do serious time if convicted. I would also shut the hunting down on my property and prosecute trespassers.

[eliphalet]

With all this talk of game cameras....... Why don't you get some photographic evidence of the trespassers VIA some well hidden game camsor take a shovel along and solve the problem.
they will do serious time if convicted Last place I owned if the dog was on my property it was legal to shoot it.

Dogs are just animals, different than deer to mankind for sure, as they become companions, but still animals and sometimes some of em need killing. It's why we have leash laws to control dogs. If people don't want the dog shot keep it home and out of trouble. I've had ranchers come by and say "if my dogs are over here again don't call me shoot em" he wasn't joking, I think it ended up he shot it himself. When I lived "out" myself or one of the Very few neighbors would shoot a wanderer if he didn't take the hint and leave soon or was causing problems or a dropped off pooch or cat every few months. Chasing deer or elk or any stock was a death sentence. It was the right thing to do and we all knew it.
I think of myself as a "dog lover" have got along with dogs better than most my whole life, we have three of the durn things and like every one, but I also try to be a realist and not live in a fantasy.
Dogs are dogs a animal not humans and should be treated as such. Sounds to me like far to many have lived in PC la la land or a city far to long.

[gym]

Put up some signs around the property that you have "video survallence " cameras up and you can get either a "real", or several dummy cameras", even if they shoot a couple of them off, they will wonder if they have been caught trespassing on private property , and most probablly leave, even if not right away, it would give them something to think about.

[gym]

Put up some signs around the property that you have "video survallence " cameras up and you can get either a "real", or several dummy cameras", even if they shoot a couple of them off, they will wonder if they have been caught trespassing on private property , and most probablly leave, even if not right away, it would give them something to think about.

[308win]

Dogs will act different in a pack than they will in the family room. Dogs will run and kill sheep, chickens, etc. when away from their home place and ignore them when they are home. Many dogs will run deer. Point is, you don't know what your dogs are doing if you are letting them run free and they are your responsibility.

[Vern Humphrey]

With all this talk of game cameras....... Why don't you get some photographic evidence of the trespassers VIA some well hidden game cams.
Now, there's a suggestion that makes sense. Since your trespassers operate mostly in daylight, you can disable the flash so they don't detect the cameras.

The cameras will also help you "pattern" the tresspassers -- after a while, you'll know where and when they operate, and can track them more efficiently. Perhaps you can arrange with the game wardens to trap them.

[wfrr]

Exactly the same thing happened to 3 of my dogs some years ago, one of them a prized Welsh named Dipstick.

Thing about it though, I don't consider the shooter to be a hunter. These morons don't hunt they just wander around and shoot things.

As far as I'm concerned an idiot shooting a gun is our worst enemy. They make it difficult for the rest of us to keep the right to use our own firearms responsibly.

Boy, I sure do miss those dogs!!

[dogrunner]

Perhaps you need to lobby your legislative body to do what Florida has. Trespass with a firearm (any weapon for that matter) is in its self a seperate felony.

It makes no difference if the purpose is hunting, hiking or the intent is to commit a crime like burglary....having a firearm or acquiring one while trespassing creates the seperate criminal act of "trespass with a firearm"......pack that charge up a scofflaw hunters behind and he'll never again be able to even OWN a gun, much less shoot your dog.

That law has recently been expanded to include shooting across posted land.........check out the Florida Statutes.

[Debunk Brady]

I have to say, I am extremely surprised by the posts in this thread. There is no excuse for shooting a dog unless it is on YOUR property and you have taken all reasonable actions to avoid it, including alerting the owner that the dog is a nuisance if you can discern who the owner is. If you are trespassing and you shoot a dog.... I hope someone more vengeful than myself visits justice on you.

As for you, you need to start enforcing the trespassing. Lots of postings. Also, word of mouth works best, and chances are if you have multiple offenders they know each other. Letting air out of tires isn't technically destruction of property. Leave a note on the car that says "I have an air pump at the house. Stop by and I'll fill your tires after the Sheriff arrests you for trespassing.


I plan on owning a large tract of land at some point. When I do, I will have signs posted that say something like this:
"PRIVATE PROPERTY - DEAF CHILD AT PLAY
ABSOLUTELY NO TRESPASSING
VIOLATORS WILL BE PLACED UNDER
CITIZENS ARREST UNTIL AUTHORITIES ARRIVE"

[KelTecian]

I was deer hunting with my .270 and up in a treestand. I could see a couple hound dogs with no collars on running onto my land. They started chasing my cattle around and then cornered a couple against the fence. The cows freaked out and jumped my fence and the cattle tore themselves up along with my fence.

Couple days later I was in my stand and dropped them both as they ran towards my livelihood.

5-6 hours of chasing my cows back on my land, and fixing my fence. I would have done it to my own dogs. But I keep my chained up or in the house.

Strike one...your dogs were on my land.
Strike two...your dogs attacked my cattle.
Strike three...They returned to to it again.

BTW...If the dogs were chasing deer I would not have shot them DRT.

[M'bogo]

Most every county in NC has a leash law. Does the county in question have one? If your dogs were subject to such laws you failed your pets by not obeying the law. If you cared about them you would keep them up and not let them wander the countryside.

I live out in the country where way to many city folks let their children, pets and horses run free, way past the the little postage stamp tract of land they live on. Out here we run off trespassers on horses, ATV's and on foot along with the free ranging pets. So many targets so little ammo.

M'bogo

[Reyn]

As for you, you need to start enforcing the trespassing. Lots of postings. Also, word of mouth works best, and chances are if you have multiple offenders they know each other. Letting air out of tires isn't technically destruction of property. Leave a note on the car that says "I have an air pump at the house. Stop by and I'll fill your tires after the Sheriff arrests you for trespassing

I would also tow their vehicle if it was on my property.

[30-06 lover]

Hunters would never shoot your dog. They were criminals. I am very sorry for your losses and hope you better in the future. I would suggest as much blaze orange on your dog as possible. (Cabelas sell vests). I would also purchase an invisibale electric fense for your dogs.

For legal advice (I am not a Cop or a Lawyer) I would call the sheriff's department and report that you have implimented a strict no tresspassing policy for your property due to your dogs being shot and killed, and that you have posted signage around your property that there is no tresspassing and request that they swing by when they get a chance during hunting season. Then put the SO on speed dial and report suspicious people and tresspassers (but don't call the SO every time a car drives by as they will consider you the guy that calls wolf all the time). Again, Very sorry for what has happend.

[John4me05]

If you confront these people dont do it with a handgun in hand.. it will appear threatening.. Rifle or shotgun is fine if you appear to be hunting... If a handgun have it easily accessable but holstered.. If you hear shots after telling people to not hunt there immediately call the sheriff.. Chances are it will take a little more than 40 minutes to gut and drag a deer out.. Take pics of every vehicle and tag that parks in or near your property for your personal records.. Make sure it shows date and time... If something happens on a certain day you know what vehicle was in/near your property.. If all else fails and you know who is doing stuff but cant get anything done try to figure out what they are using to hunt and put a round or 2 into some easily fixed part of your house.. Then call cops when they are tresspassing.. Shooting tword a occupied dwelling carries a much heftier penalty than tresspassing

[Seven For Sure]

I'm a hunter and a dog lover. If anyone shot my dog on my property, I would shoot them dead. End of story. I'm sure I'll catch hell this but like I said: end of story.

You hunt, you know where you are and you make sure you are following the law or you have permission if it's private property. You have dogs, you keep them on your property or restrained.

They probably shot your dogs because they barked and scared some deer off. Sorry to hear about your dogs. Its crap like this that give hunters a bad name. Poaching, trespassing, shooting peoples pets; just a bunch of crap! I only hunt on private property so I can avoid these type of hunters or have the law on my side should I run into them.

[tinygnat219]

Quite simple, although inconvenient.

Dress the dogs in Blaze, don't allow anyone else on the property, and start reporting vehicles on your driveway to the local sheriff and game wardens.

[Il Duca]

As far as interpersonal relationships with trespassing hunters go, if you ask them to leave and they get huffy guess what? They are trespassing with a firearm, that's a felony if they want to press it. Beyond that, I would treat them as I would any other hot n' tot.

[41magsnub]

John4me05: If all else fails and you know who is doing stuff but cant get anything done try to figure out what they are using to hunt and put a round or 2 into some easily fixed part of your house.. Then call cops when they are tresspassing.. Shooting tword a occupied dwelling carries a much heftier penalty than tresspassing

WHAT???? I hope you're kidding! That is one of the stupidest things ever said on this forum!

[eliphalet]

I would think a collar and chain or a pen during hunting season would if nothing else solve the gone dog problem. trespassers is another matter.

[rr2241tx]

As far as penning or chaining your dog during hunting season, that's good advice. Might be good advice the rest of the time too since there's no way a dog of any size is going to stay on 28 acres of his own accord.

I'm no expert on NC trespass law, but you should bone up on it. You should be able to find the state law online. It isn't rocket science, the law will clearly state what constitutes legal marking of private property and what constitutes trespassing. Your state game laws will also have a section clearly stating whether hunters have a right to persue wounded animals across private property or not. You may be surprised. Hunters may not even have to ask permission to cross your land or even to hunt on your land.

Now, the tricky part is what to do if you have trespassers and want to be both legal and alive to talk about it the next day. You'd better discuss that with the local sheriff and game warden. An infrared trail camera helps document your claims. Just be sure it is never going to be seen though.

[unreal45]

I would never shoot a dog even if it was chasing a deer I would take a shot at the deer. In missouri it is illegal to shoot dogs even if they are on your property. I have a squirrel and coon dog that sometimes hunts a little deep and might cross property lines on rare occasions does that mean she deserves to be shot? I think not. Shooting the dog hurts the hunting more than the dog does.

[owen]

In South Carolina, where most hunting is done on leases by hunt clubs, the general rule seems to be every dog seen on the lease is a dead dog.

28 acres is a small property. From some of the things I've read the normal territory of a dog is about 5 square miles. IIRC, 1 sqm is 640 acres.

[Il Duca]

[QUOTE] The dog is not a free agent. It has an owner -- and that owner should be arrested and convicted of tresspassing. [QUOTE/]

Actually, in Florida it is considered trespassing if a hunting dog crosses property lines, the owner is charged.

[opd743]

Conwict, sorry that your dogs were killed. I have had two killed myself. Both were house dogs that were let out to "relieve themselves", both shots were heard and both dogs were found just inside the woods from my parents house.

As for those that say killing a dog is justified, or O.K., you need help.

I hunt everything from deer, turkey, dove, squirrel, and rabbit every year and I eat the meat. So should I add dog to my diet just because they are there with the deer?

I am not saying that a wild dog should not be taken to preserve the game in the area. I am simply stating that every dog that runs across your stand should not be shot. Hunters are after all here to take game animals, right?

[Vern Humphrey]

I have a squirrel and coon dog that sometimes hunts a little deep and might cross property lines on rare occasions does that mean she deserves to be shot?
If you know your dog is crossing property lines, then you are tresspassing.

[Art Eatman]

I've always figured to know the landowners around me. That way I know if they care or don't care about my traipsing through their territory.

Back when I was a kid, my grandfather had a 150-acre place. But I had the free run of around a thousand acres around his. we knew the neighbors.

Same deal now for me in the back country. Lots of absentee-owner small tracts of 20 and 40 acres. Those of us who actually go out and meddle around have evolved a "code of the West" deal: As long as you don't hunt through the middle of somebody's camp, go where you want. Stop by for coffee, any time...

:), Art

[che_70b]

A couple of points.

I tend to view the treatment of dogs and children as two of the best indicators of a persons worth. Those who feel the need to be needlessly cruel to either are not worth much. It is ok to shoot a dog under pretty much the same circumstance in which it is ok to shoot a man. If they are putting you and yours, or even you property, in danger then it is acceptable to shoot. One should try less extreme methods if possible though. Dogs running deer or even cattle can be delt with far more decently than just shooting them. Domestic dogs are, as a general rule, pretty good about stopping what they are doing when a human yells and approaches. Those to dense for that are often gun shy and can be ran away with a shot into the ground. People shooting dogs to stop them in these circumsances without trying to run them off are just being mean and lazy and would probably like to deal with annoying people in a similar manner.

As to the hunters shooting dogs. I would have no trouble believing this out of MANY deer hunters. Before anyone gets up in arms over that statement I to hunt and that includes deer. The ones I'm refering to rarely hunt anything else and tend to view deer hunting as some sort of religion. We have a lot of them in the part of ky I live in. Many of this same croud get bore and shoot at whatever is near which can include vehicles, cattle, and pets, as well as carelessly discharging their weapons in the directions of other hunters. These same people are the ones who litter local road sides with deer carcasses and make the rest of us look bad to non hunters. I know quite a few hunters who avoid going out the first week of modern gun deer season due the very high concentration of these types then. I also know a guy who likes to hunt squirils with a dog but has to wait until archery season is over on account of bow hunters trying to stick arrows in his dog which is scenting squirels and NOT chasing those beloved deer.

Some dogs actually do stay on their home property. Our neighbors dogs are not fenced or tied and they don't leave their land. Our dogs do leave our land but the territory they range into belongs to a friend of ours who is fine with them. Actually our free range dogs do alot to keep agressive strays, coyotes, and crop eating from getting to comfy in the valley, all while leaving alone other pets and livestock.

Best of luck with the jerks who messed with your dog and I hope he turns up.

[Vern Humphrey]

Dogs running deer or even cattle can be delt with far more decently than just shooting them. Domestic dogs are, as a general rule, pretty good about stopping what they are doing when a human yells and approaches. Those to dense for that are often gun shy and can be ran away with a shot into the ground.
I take it you have never owned cattle or sheep.

[che_70b]

No, I have not owned cattle or sheep. I have delt with animals my whole life though and spent a fair amount of time around cattle. Maybe raising livestock would change my mind but I doubt it strongly.

[TEDDY]

as far as I am aware in SC you dont hunt on land that you dont have writen permission for.I stopped the hunters on my land because there was damage to my fences and gates.and someone went thru with a brush hog.my cats are being killed by dogs and I will shoot them.but I know every dog in naborhood and wont shoot them.I have watched a male and female for and two possums eat together and the cats lay there and watch them.two kittens and one of the possums was found in back of house dead not 60 ft from house.I like animals and if I have to kill something will feel very depressed
but like was posted some hunters? will kill any thing.I have 90 acreas and am gateway to 200/300 more.
In this case I would get the coat in orange.then see if the dog gets shot.but I would also talk to hunter who shot dog.perhaps take the sheriff or game warden with me.

[f4t9r]

I hate to hear this and would really be upset if someone shot my dog.
Where we hunt they let a hunter come in to get a deer that was hit and after hearing a shot (that killed the Family Dog). They brought it back in thier truck and said they thought it was the Deer. They were lucky to get away when the owner went to get his gun. Get some friends or people you trust to keep an eye on things.

[paintballdude902]

i think you are lucky that it is just your dog

the people up the road from my sister ( its about a mile to the nearest house)
they have had 2 bullets go thru windows in their house just this hunting season. and they cant really do anyhting about it because the directions the bullets are coming from are from gamelands

[rrruuunnn]

sorry, to hear about your dog. i have a siberian husky that is 10 years old that i'm close to.

i have a ranch near the king ranch that gets poachers. my experience is limited since we don't have a house there. in texas, there is a reward for spotting poachers.

if you confront the poachers, you can be as nice as you want, but don't give permission to stay on the property. when the game warden gets there, he will want to catch them for trespassing. if you give them any kind of permission to be on the property, they can do nothing and everyone's time is wasted.

[Vern Humphrey]

No, I have not owned cattle or sheep.
I have and do.

When he was in high school, my brother raised sheep to pay for his college education. One morning we found the whole flock -- 60 sheep -- all dead, throats ripped out. They had been killed the night before by feral dogs.

Tell me how we were supposed to yell "Stop!" in the middle of the night at dogs that were more than a mile away.

[XDKingslayer]

4. It doesn't make sense for a hunter to shoot a dog -- why would he do that? What's in it for him? It does make sense for a hunter not to fire a shot until he has deer in his sights.

Because some dogs will run a deer to death.

In Pennsylvania, if you see a dog chasing a deer on public land you can legally shoot the dog. You do have to notify the game commision though.

[Vern Humphrey]

Because some dogs will run a deer to death.
That's an old wives tale. When I lived in Virginia, I belonged to a hunt club that leased 6,400 acres. One of the terms of membership was to participate in a number of cooperative deer hunts a year -- hunts with dogs.

You rarely see deer running from dogs. They just move steadily, and stay ahead. When the occasional dog gets close enough, they put on a burst of speed, but soon slow down. And that's deer being hunted by dogs bred for hunting, and with lots of hunting experience.

In Pennsylvania, if you see a dog chasing a deer on public land you can legally shoot the dog. You do have to notify the game commision though.
I don't have a problem with that at all.

[che_70b]

Vern, I would think that it would be equally difficult to shoot them under those circumstances as well since you were all asleep indoors and not with the sheep. Not saying you should post a guard with livestock 24/7, just making the point that if you are not there when it happens you can neither shoot or stop them otherwise as I suggested.

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern, I would think that it would be equally difficult to shoot them under those circumstances as well since you were all asleep indoors and not with the sheep.
That's why you shoot on sight.

And if you hear dogs, or see dog tracks on your property, you track them down.

In other words, kill them before they go on a rampage with your sheep.

[Art Eatman]

Feral dogs are a common problem. Yes, they will kill livestock.

But that issue is off-topic for this thread. The general subject is how to deal with one's house dogs and slob hunters. Real-world solutions, not ranting and venting.

Otherwise, this thread won't last much longer...

Art

[Vern Humphrey]

The answer is, patrol your property for tresspassers -- which you'd do even if you had no dogs -- and keep your dogs under control.

[TexasSkyhawk]

It makes me so mad to see people killing such great animals. I have a soft spot for all canine animals. Every last one of em. Probably shoot to protect one of them than some two legged type.

It just burns me up.

Agree 1000%

Shoot my dogs and I'll do whatever it takes and spend whatever it takes to track the S.O.B. (s) down.

Then we'll see just how brave and manly they are.

Burns my ass big time. And a good reason why hunting land is getting so restricted. Freaking idiot alpha hotels.

Jeff

[XDKingslayer]

That's an old wives tale.

If coyotes can do it, so can domestics.

[Vern Humphrey]

If coyotes can do it, so can domestics.
Where's the evidence that coyotes "run deer to death?"

[TreyNC]

I live up the mountain from you somewhere and I feel ya. As the kid up the road told me, Dad might not kill your dog if he bothers him hunting because he is your dog, but he might. So I make sure not to let my dog run during hunting season unless it's raining. And yes my dog does roam a lot, I get calls from neighbors from a couple of miles in either direction, insisting he isn't bothering them, he just wont leave when they are done playing with him, and even have people stopping on the road i don't know saying how they haven't seen him for a while and was wondering if he was ok.

Bottom line if he gets shot it's my fault, unless he is on my porch.

[Vern Humphrey]

Bottom line if he gets shot it's my fault, unless he is on my porch.
If everyone took that position, and were responsible dog owners, no dogs would be shot.

[Cosmoline]

Here's the method I used up here when I lived in the sticks. Post the property with signs--no trespassing, no hunting, etc. If possible run twine around on the boundaries and hang signs on it as a cheap fence. If you find people on the property hunting, eject them. Have a rifle with you, but do not point it at them. If they raise iron on you, drop and prepare to shoot them. If possible have someone else with you running a video camera.

The position I took re. the dogs is simple. If they get shot on someone else's property after wandering off, bad on me. If someone comes onto MY PROPERTY and starts shooting them, I will assume he's coming to kill me and aim COM with a round of 54R, no warning no debate. The dogs are in fact there to take the first rounds of an assault (or the first swipes from a bear) and give you warning. That was the policy of most people there. But the Mat-Su isn't exactly like some of the more "civilized" parts of the US where people are allowed to trespass all over private lands with rifles and blast away at anything that moves. Where I come from you DO NOT DO THAT! In fact you don't even knock on a cabin door. You stand at the entrance to the driveway and call out "Hello the cabin!" I like it that way myself. It's the old way.

[Vern Humphrey]

In many states, you can post your property with paint blazes -- both Virginia and Arkansas have such laws, I know. You buy a special color paint, and paint blazes on trees, rocks, and fence posts. No special signs are needed, and the paint is legal evidence the property is posted.

Also, in many states, simply putting up a fence automatically posts the property.

[Leanwolf]

VERN HUMPHREY - "In many states, you can post your property with paint blazes -- both Virginia and Arkansas have such laws, I know. You buy a special color paint, and paint blazes on trees, rocks, and fence posts. No special signs are needed, and the paint is legal evidence the property is posted."


Same here in Idaho, Vern. Put up a "posted" sign and then paint a 12" blaze orange or bright red mark on fence posts about 100' (??) apart, around property.

L.W.

[che_70b]

Vern there are plenty of dogs that are very capable of passing through pasture land without ever bother livestock, I have known many dogs like this. Its is indecent to shoot something that does not understand the concepts of "property lines" for walking around. Your not even talking about shooting dogs that are being a harzard now, your talking about murdering pets that have wandered off. There is also the possibility that the dog you shot for being in your field was stolen out of someone's yards and dumped which sadly is a very common prank. I'm not saying there are not times when a person may have to shoot a dog to protect livestock, I'm saying that all to many people are not willing to take the time to do something more kind hearted. After all, it is easyer to see a dog walking through a field and shoot him from the truck than it is walk up and see if he is a lost dog or even to just get closer to yell and run him off.

[Art Eatman]

I grew up around folks who believed that if an owner cared about the dog, the dog had a collar, and the owner had the responsibility to maintain control. That ol' debbil word, "responsibility".

Dogs do get out and roam. It is the owner's responsibility to see that it's an uncommon event. Even a housepet dog can get into a neighbor's chickens or turkeys--and it's the owner's responsibility to pay $$$ for the damages and take steps to avoid a future recurrence.

When I was twelve years old, living with no fenced yard around our very-rural home, my pet dog became habituated to killing a neighbor's turkeys. We tried all the known remedies. I still remember taking the responsibility of killing my dog--and that was sixty-one years ago.

So I have little sympathy for those who get all exercised about taking responsibility for control over their dogs. Folks who want to play in the grownup world oughta act like grownups. Responsibility.

Art

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern there are plenty of dogs that are very capable of passing through pasture land without ever bother livestock, I have known many dogs like this.
And those dogs are painted purple, with strobe lights on their collars, right?

How many sheep, cattle, horses and donkeys do I have to lose at night before I decide to shoot the dog?

Sorry, but rather than risk my livestock, I'd deal with the dog -- and if the owner doesn't want his dog shot, let him keep his dog at home.

[tinygnat219]

Another way to assist,

Invite the Sheriff, Deputies, and Reserve Police Officers to hunt on your land.
Free security.

[che_70b]

There has been more than one occasion in which people’s livestock have escaped their fences. When this happens it is not uncommon for these cattle to get into crops on adjoining property where they eat and trample other people’s property. When this has happen to us we went out and ran the offending cows back home. Under your logic I would have been justified in shooting the cattle, who just wandered off through a broken fence being cattle, rather being nice about it and running them home.

Since you seem to consider the economic value of livestock over the emotional value of pets think about the economic cost you would suffer if someone applied your beliefs of shooting animals to protect property instead of trying to run them off. How many head of cattle do you think would be lost to a man with a soybean field and an M1A protecting his property in the way you advocate.

[Firespecialist]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but, to deal with the trespassing, I would be placing trailcams throughout the property. One on the edge of the driveway facing the highway. Possibly one on each end of the property. Just go out and look for any high traffic areas. Between those and just making a presence during different times of the day would probably warn off potential trespassers. One thing we used to do was go out with four-wheelers around 4 in the morning to daybreak. One thing to remember, is do it at different times. People will notice trends, no matter how dumb they really are. Sorry about the dogs. Wish I could put in some advice in that other than maybe investing into "inside" dogs.

[tinygnat219]

Trailcams might work, but smart trespassers either take them, or detroy them.

[che_70b]

You would want to get the no flash trail cams for trespasser busting.

[DDrake]

A few post saids that trespassing with a firearm is a felony in their state. Doesn't that seem a bit harsh. I would imagine its fairly common that hunters miss posted signs or accidentally went too far before noticing they were off their property.


Just seems a bit odd you could loose all your gun rights for trespassing. I think loosing your hunting license for 1-2 years and a big hefty fee would be more appropriate (maybe 5 years if you kill on the land).

[Tarvis]

*now depositing 2 pennies*

The only legal reason anyone would have to shoot your dog would be to defend thier livestock/dog/family/themselves.

On the order of trespassing, get you a ghillie suit and a compact rifle and go sit on opening day with the sherrif's number on speed dial. You can make a citizens arrest for trespassing, just hop out when they are clearly on your property and tell 'em to reach for the sky. That or tell a deputy that you're gonna shoot the next mf'er (wether you plan on it or not) that trespasses and they'll be a little bit more intent on watching the area.

[eliphalet]

Idaho law or a tiny part of.

Any person, on finding any dog, not on the premises of its owner or possessor, worrying, wounding, or killing any livestock or poultry which are raised and kept in captivity for domestic or commercial purposes, may, at the time of so finding said dog, kill the same, and the owners thereof can sustain no action for damages against any person so killing such dog. "Worrying" is a pretty broad word there my friend.
....................................................................
TarvisOn the order of trespassing, get you a ghillie suit and a compact rifle and go sit on opening day with the sherrif's number on speed dial. You can make a citizens arrest for trespassing, just hop out when they are clearly on your property and tell 'em to reach for the sky.
That is not very smart advice at all, and is in fact a good way to get into situation you wish you were not in real fast, and has the potential of life changing events no one wants or needs for simple trespass.
Call the authorities, get license numbers etc. but jumping out of the bushes and pointing guns at folks especially armed one's, ain't smart to say the least.

[Tarvis]

Yeah yeah, was tounge in cheek :neener:. Kinda like suggesting a sling shot in a tree stand. Besides, I put my disclaimer at the top :D. You are right about the liscense plates and all that, I was trying to think of a good use for a ghille. The Compromise: Put on a ghille or ninja underwear and hide by thier trucks to ID them, har, I win!!

[treeman800]

The best solution is be a responsible pet owner and keep your dogs on your property. If someone trespasses tell the athhourities to "deal with it or you will"
they will deal with it.
I own 250 acres and have dealt with the trespassing issue in the past. A strong relationship with the neibors and local athorities gos along way.
Do not do anything that you could not live with for the rest of your life.

[mgregg85]

If I watched someone shoot my dog for the fun of it or some other reason besides self defense I can't really say what I would do in the heat of the moment. I've got no tolerance for those who abuse animals, domesticated or not and I love my dog.

I guess if I saw someone shoot my dog for no good reason I would react much the same as if someone shot a friend of mine.

[Vern Humphrey]

The best solution is be a responsible pet owner and keep your dogs on your property.
Amen.

Dog owners are responsible for their dogs. But far too many of them don't live up to their responsibilities.

[John4me05]

In many states, you can post your property with paint blazes -- both Virginia and Arkansas have such laws

If it matters to anyone here in VA it is a strip of silver paint on a tree roughly 2 inches wide and 6 inches long at about head height...

[Firespecialist]

Quote:
In many states, you can post your property with paint blazes -- both Virginia and Arkansas have such laws

If it matters to anyone here in VA it is a strip of silver paint on a tree roughly 2 inches wide and 6 inches long at about head height...


I don't live in either of them states, but I would seem to think a majority of the population would look at that and not know what it is for. Personally, I would think they are cutting some select trees down or something. On the other hand, I don't trespass either.

[stevereno1]

I feel for you, but it is ultimately YOUR decision where you dogs should roam. I have been in hunting clubs that stated that Dogs wearing a collar will be given one pass, and then will be shot. stray hunting dogs are not good for hunting camps, as they chase game, and ruin many hunters hunts. We pay $500 per year lease, plus 3 work days, plus liscences, for a dog to run deer around on the property? I think not.

[stevereno1]

If I watched someone shoot my dog for the fun of it or some other reason besides self defense I can't really say what I would do in the heat of the moment."

If your dog is a neusance at any deer camp in the U.S. it will be brought down, and discarded, period. If you have no control over your own dogs, then you should not be surprised to lose it. If you are willing to get physical over a dog that you aren't even taking care of, you shouldn't be surprised, if you get a good "talking" to about your poor pet ownership skills.

[moooose102]

heck, i kile YOUR dogs better than most people! the blaze orange vest idea sounds like a good one to me. also, a good idea is (i hate doing this, and you should not have to) tying them up for the 2 weeks or so that firearm deer season is in progress. it's hard on the people, and the dogs, but not nearly as hard as a 30-06 to the chest! my personal opinion would be to lay low for the low life doing this and give him a taste of his own medicine! on second thought, i like a rabid dog better than most people!

[stevereno1]

If i'm in a stand, and I've spent $600 per year, plus put in several work days, to "Stand hunt" , and a dog comes my way while disturbing all of the deer movement in the area, don't be surprised if you never see your "best freind" again, -ever.

[Javelin]

I feel for you, but it is ultimately YOUR decision where you dogs should roam. I have been in hunting clubs that stated that Dogs wearing a collar will be given one pass, and then will be shot.

If i'm in a stand, and I've spent $600 per year, plus put in several work days, to "Stand hunt" , and a dog comes my way while disturbing all of the deer movement in the area, don't be surprised if you never see your "best freind" again, -ever.

I don't let my dogs get out. But before you decide to be fun and take up aim on a domesticated canine... just remember these words to the wise. Shoot my dog.... its not going to be pretty. You won't be in a deer stand, again, -ever.


:)

[JWarren]

I'm confused by your statement, Javelin.

I don't let my dogs get out.

Then this shouldn't be a problem for you.

But before you decide to be fun and take up aim on a domesticated canine... just remember these words to the wise. Shoot my dog.... its not going to be pretty. You won't be in a deer stand, again, -ever.


Presumbably, a stand usually means that its on that person's property. Granted, I would be making an assumption here. But even so...

Are you saying that you'd kill a person who shot a dog running on his property?


I'm a huge animal lover. At the same time, I've shot dogs with collars when hunting. I'll do it again. The dogs that I've shot have had one thing in common: They've been Walker Hounds that Dog hunters throw out on the road by our land and run through our land to where they set up. Should I reconsider that? Should I let these hunters exploit my land that I pay taxes on every year? Should I let them ruin MY hunts that I've paid hundreds of dollars to plant plots and build stands?


Bottom Line: If your dog gets off your property and gets shot, the only one to blame is you. If you say your dog doesn't get out, then why bother making threats?


-- John

[Javelin]

Presumbably, a stand usually means that its on that person's property. Granted, I would be making an assumption here. But even so...

Are you saying that you'd kill a person who shot a dog running on his property?


Haha. You make it sound so evil* JWarren.

:)

[JWarren]

Jav,

Its a gift. :)


-- John

[JWarren]

I do want to make one distinction, however.

Right now, I have a neighbor's blundering idiot Black Lab puppies that are coming onto my land, and usually in my yard. I'd not shoot them. If they ever become a problem, I'll go talk to the neighbor. As it is, they are harmless and entertaining to watch.

-- John

[qwert65]

Well, I'm a first year vet student and animal lover- that being said I shot a dog that was killing our barn cats. I knew who's dog it was and had asked them twice. I think you should always give them at least one pass(unless they're killing animals right and left and you catch them in the act) it's courtesy, most animals escape once in awhile. if it's persistent thats a little different

[JWarren]

I think you should always give them at least one pass(unless they're killing animals right and left and you catch them in the act) it's courtesy

True enough. But I don't give warning to Dog Hunters who run through our property. I figure they lost the right for courtesy when they willingly violated our Posted land. Since most of the ones I've seen have been hanging around their trucks drinking beer, it is unlikely that I'll get a reasonable discussion out of them anyway. And considering that I would have already lost all respect for them, its a bad proposition.


-- John

[qwert65]

I agree I was talking about giving the animal a pass. Humans who knowingly tresspass, I have little remorse for

[Art Eatman]

I note in passing that respass is not a capital offense. One thing we are, here at THR, is law-abiding.

This thread has come to be far more noise than signal.

Art