[Orthonym]

I remember reading many years ago about a silent cartridge used by the Army in the tunnels in Viet-Nam. (In Infantry Journal, I think) It was a .357 Mag case with a piston between the powder and the bullet and internal threads at the case mouth to stop the piston. Just today I came across this site on Russian efforts to do the same thing:[URL=http://world.guns.ru/ammo/sp-e.htm]

My question: Would owning, making or using these get one crossways with the law?

[Orthonym]

Did I post this in the wrong forum? Would it fit better in General Discussion or the Handgun forum? (I categorically deny that this post is just a bump to get peoples' attention so they'll reply.:D )

[SDC]

I've seen examples of both of these cartridges (the Vietnam round was actually closer in size to a .44 Mag), and I think that EACH ROUND would probably be considered a "silencer". Just my .02, FWIW.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

My question: Would owning, making or using these get one crossways with the law?I doubt if it'd make 'em love you... :scrutiny:

A quick look at the state laws shows that most of 'em prohibit a "silencer or muffler" from being attached to a gun. A lawyer could prolly argue that this ammo has a silencer built in, and that chambering it is attaching it.

- pdmoderator

[AJ Dual]

What you're talking about is called "teloscoping case" ammunition and the ATF does indeed consider each cartridge to be a "silencer" subject to a $200 NFA tax for each round.

The most recent firearm of any note to use such a system was the Knights Armament Revover Rifle. Seen recently in the X-Files and other TV and movies.

[444]

You can achieve the same thing in most any rifle with the right loads. I have loads in .30-06 that are barely a pop. Check out this website: http://guns.connect.fi/gow/gunwriters.html
Look around that website, these loads are referred to as "Cat's Sneeze" loads.
No device is used to reduce the report, just reduced powder charges.

[jimpeel]

What you're talking about is called "teloscoping case" ammunition and the ATF does indeed consider each cartridge to be a "silencer" subject to a $200 NFA tax for each round.So if a round propelled by a piston that is actuated by expanding gases is considered a "silencer" doesn't that qualify every BB gun ever devised of the air-ram (my designation in the absence of the true designation) design to also be so designated? A good example of same would be the common $15 Marksman BB gun that is of the air-ram type.

[benewton]

jimpeel: you should know better than to try to inject logic into the law.

[Dave R]

So what's the scoop on plain ol' quiet rounds? Like Colibri .22? And handloaded rounds at low velocity?

I was under the presumption that they are all perfectly legal, since no mechanical silencer is involved. The round just happens to have a low report.

[Greg L]

So if a round propelled by a piston that is actuated by expanding gases is considered a "silencer" doesn't that qualify every BB gun ever devised of the air-ram (my designation in the absence of the true designation) design to also be so designated?

:eek:

Wow, that would make that little pint sized milk jug that Crossman sells with 5000 BBs in it worth $1,000,000 to the .guv in revenue. Let's try not to give them any ideas.

Greg

[dustind]

I do not think BB guns are firearms, or that something built into a gun would cause the bbs to be taxed, just the gun, if it were a firearm.

[Orthonym]

I've read of people being worried about shooting airguns with too much oil in them being accused of having "firearms" due to "dieseling" or compression-ignition of the excess oil. I, of course, have never, ever, put a drop of lighter fluid or starting fluid on the back of an air-gun pellet to try and get a little more velocity.;)