God and Glocks: Why Churches Should Not be Gun Free Zones


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chieftain
December 16, 2007, 09:07 AM
Momentum seems to be flowing our way. Let’s keep it up.

Go figure.

Fred


Townhall.com:

God and Glocks: Why Churches Should Not be Gun Free Zones

By Doug Giles

Saturday, December 15, 2007

Seems like the whiny babies among us have decided to lethally arm themselves and take out their post-pubescent “nobody likes me” rage on innocent people in schools, shopping malls and now . . . churches.

Yes, in the last ten days we have seen Napoleon Dynamite look alike Robert Hawkins kill eight innocent people at a mall in Omaha and then blow his own head off. Here’s an aside . . . Why can’t these warped records start with killing themselves? I think I speak for all Americans when I say, hey psychopathic mass-murdering jackass who intends to kill others and commit suicide: Do us all a favor and start with suicide. Begin there, with your death, okay?

Moving from the shopping malls to the hallowed halls of the Church, this past weekend we saw the brutal slaying of Christians at New Life Church and at a YWAM training center in Colorado. The culprit? Matthew Murray, a twenty-four-year-old pathetic toad.
I’m sorry. I’ve got to apologize. I sound way too harsh, don’t I? Y’know I really shouldn’t be so judgmental—especially since I’ve just received some pertinent information about why Matt killed four innocent people and wounded multiple others.

I just found out that Murray grew up in rather harsh conditions. Yep, it seems that young Matt was living at home with his mommy and his neurosurgeon daddy in the lap of frickin’ luxury in an opportunity-rich environment. Wow. Who could handle all that stress?!? That’s enough to make any of us snap.

In addition, I’ve just heard that there were three more major reasons why he was so incensed:

1. His parents wouldn’t let him have the Playboy Channel on his 96” plasma TV (unconfirmed).

2. They limited his text messaging to 200,000 texts per month (unconfirmed).

3. YWAM rejected him three years ago from being a part of their organization for health reasons.

It appears that M-squared had no other recourse but to act out aggressively. Who among us can blame him, huh? That’s enough to push anyone straight over the edge . . . isn’t it? I mean, c’mon . . . think about what he had to slog through in life: Opulence + Parental discipline + Limited cell phone use + A little rejection = Murderous rampage.

What’s that, you say? You think that the above sounds like a bunch of psychobabble and therapeutic twaddle? Yeah, I guess you’re right and that I was correct in being rabidly judgmental after all; he was an idiot, and we all should simultaneously loathe and forget him for what he did. Thank God the media is not giving this turd too much attention.
This latest church shooting serves as a screaming wake up call to all Kum-Ba-Yah pastors, priests and parishioners who haven’t woken up to the violent reality of the 21st century. Our culture has become the Wild West all over again, except this time around the culprits aren’t cowboys but cry babies who have decided to pack it in because life is hard and unfair.

Given that young people are opting for murder verses sucking it up and getting a life, ministers had better morph PDQ from imitating Mr. Rogers to mimicking Clint Eastwood’s character in Pale Rider.

Which brings me to this question, pastor: Exactly what kind of armed arrangement do you have in place when Beavis shows up at your worship service ready to kill congregants because he couldn’t sing in the choir?

What’s the plan, man of God, when some Son of Sam commanded on high by his English-speaking black Labrador enters your comfy Community Church with his 9mm with ten loaded clips?

What are you going to do? Pray? Run? Cower behind the pulpit or under a pew waiting for the cops while the dillweed empties his clip into your crowd? If New Life Church would have done that, Murray, armed with multiple guns and a thousand rounds of ammo, would have made Virginia Tech and Columbine look like a walk in the park.
This is the ultimate What Would Jesus Do query, eh?

I think if Jesus were placed in a similar situation as the New Life Church security guard, he would whip out his Glock and double tap the center mass of any wannabe killer who was attempting to put a bullet in one of his defenseless disciples.

I know that doesn’t fit with your bearded lady, soft focused, Precious Moments figurine version of Jesus that you’ve been worshipping for the last twenty years, but it does square with the Christ of my Bible. (By the way: I read The Redneck Common Sense, Good People Live, Bad People Die version of the Bible. It’s printed in Texas, and you can get a copy at www.You’dBetterWakeTheHellUp.com).

Look, pastor, let me help you out: The job of the shepherd is to serve and protect sheep, and in this permissive, paranormal and “progressive” postmodern milieu that means not only with TLC and sound doctrine but with several semi-autos and some Cor-Bon hollow points. I know it’s not a pleasant thought, and they didn’t tell you this stuff in seminary, but this is the world we live in, and this is the hand we’ve been dealt, so . . . play it like a poker champ. Be relevant.

If you or your church do not know where to begin or would like some advice on how to protect the few or many people in your pastorate, go to
www.ChurchSecurityServices.com and have them help you assess your situation and get appropriately armed to the teeth.

Lastly, obviously, I’m thinking as good Christians we should send a message to all the evil Matthew Murrays out there that we are here to help them and will walk them through whatever funky stuff they’re having to field.

However, if you, the struggling and confused guy with guns, won’t let go of your demons, know this: We are watching you, we are prepared for you, and we will have no problem whatsoever dropping you in your tracks as soon as you draw your weapon on innocent people. Yes, the wages of sin is death, and we’re now here to inflict it if you force our hand.

Amen.

Doug Giles’ new book “A Time to Clash: Papers from a Provocative Pastor” is now available. Ann Coulter says "Doug Giles’ A Time to Clash is a substantive and funny tour de force for traditional values.” Doug’s award winning talk show and video blog can be seen and heard at www.ClashRadio.com.

If you enjoyed reading about "God and Glocks: Why Churches Should Not be Gun Free Zones" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Mousegun
December 16, 2007, 09:37 AM
A ------------------------------------ Men

Double Naught Spy
December 16, 2007, 09:49 AM
You know, the credibility of the author goes down the toilet when two out of his three reasons stated for why Murray went on his rampage were unconfirmed stuff. Playboy channel and 200K text messages?

I call BS on Doug Giles.

I have trouble following the lead of people who resort to such tactics. In the world of honorable people and honorable dealings, such presentations are not honorable.

hankdatank1362
December 16, 2007, 09:54 AM
I think it was sarcasm. (unconfirmed)





It got me at first too.

Rustynuts
December 16, 2007, 09:55 AM
With all religions being the focal point for hatred and violence over the eons, you'd think it would be common sense to stay armed there, or at least have armed protection. Kind of like standing under a lightning rod in a storm!

Double Naught Spy
December 16, 2007, 10:12 AM
You would think, but instead they have some institutional mantras like...

"God will protect us."

When God fails to do this, then the party lines are something like...

"God called them {those murdered} home to be with him"
"They are in a better place, now."
"God has a plan for us all"

hoji
December 16, 2007, 10:20 AM
Does anyone think that this article paints us as anything but ignorant gits?
The Redneck Bible? Jesus with a Glock?

C'mon, this buttmunch makes us all look like a bunch of inbred, banjo pickin albinos.:fire:

Old Fuff
December 16, 2007, 10:23 AM
I am reminded that when the Pilgrim Fathers, escorting their women and children to service, took their weapons with them. :eek:

And if churches are not an appropriate place to have a gun-free zone, why are schools and shopping malls? Exactly where and when has a “no guns allowed” sign at the door saved any lives, and how many have they cost?

There is a direct relationship between the length of time a killer has to do what he came too do, and when a respondent returns fire. The longer the time is, the more victims. For the lives involved it doesn’t matter if that respondent is a police officer or a citizen with a CCW. Clearly the authorities at Virginia Tech haven’t learned that. Hopefully some others will now.

cambeul41
December 16, 2007, 10:30 AM
http://www.churchsecurityservices.com/

Oops! It was in the OP! Oh, well, perhaps someone else missed it or paid insufficient attention.

the pistolero
December 16, 2007, 10:49 AM
I thought that was awesome. Somebody go get the garden hose, 'cause that ole boy's on fire. :D

rocinante
December 16, 2007, 10:54 AM
surprised no one has taken him to task for saying clips instead of magazines or mags.

I do think he has a point about self defense and christians. Some folks just aren't smart enough to get what jesus was saying. Take his sound bites like 'turn the other cheek' and you get distortions of what he was trying to say. He really could of used a spin coach IMHO. I don't think he intended christians to act like they have a i will not fight back or kick me sign on their backs either.

Black Adder LXX
December 16, 2007, 02:05 PM
"And the truth shall set you free..."

surprised no one has taken him to task for saying clips instead of magazines or mags. I guess you win... :)

Pigspitter
December 16, 2007, 02:07 PM
That reminds me of the family guy add for the NRA "don't you know Jesus and Moses used guns to fight the Romans"

Geno
December 16, 2007, 02:15 PM
WWJD?! Double-tap center of mass! :evil:

Too funny.

Nagant
December 16, 2007, 02:53 PM
I found this to be quite appropriate. For those of you who didn't, I guess you don't get the sarcasm. Besides, why shouldn't we be feeling some righteous rage over this intrusion and assault? Christians and their way of life are constantly trampled and we do nothing. As for the question of "what would Jesus do?" I would like to think that he would do something similar to what our friend has suggested. He would protect his disciples. What did Jesus do when the people were "selling oxen and sheep and doves and the money changers were seated at their tables" in the temple? That's right, he made a scourge of cords and drove them out... FORCIBLY. And he *gasp* VIOLENTLY overturned their tables, etc. I can imagine he would do something analagous to this if someone came into the Lord's House and tried to KILL all his disciples... only he would of course ramp up the level of violence to meet the particular threat (ie use divine powers, call on a legion of angels, or simply "bus' a cap"). Jesus is no long-haired hippy buddhist. His "turn the other cheek" doctrine is a guidline for inter-personal relations on a day to day basis. If we projected this ideal to the whole church or to our country, we would have ceased to exist long ago. I, for one, refuse to stand by and allow innocent blood to be spilled if there is anything in this world I can do to stop it (God willing).

Craig_VA
December 16, 2007, 03:11 PM
I like what Giles said in his column. However, I do read him from time to time on Townhall.com. I don;' agree with all his work, but I like a lot.
Please be aware that the sentiment from Giles does not indicate there is a convert on the web. Giles already holds many sentiments common to members of THR. Further, publishing that column on Townhall is pretty much preaching to the choir just as much as posting it on THR is.
We canonly claim PR advancement on the topic when we see a similar column from unnamed editorial writer on NY Times or WashPost.

Craig

riverdog
December 16, 2007, 03:46 PM
. . . You would think, but instead they have some institutional mantras like...

"God will protect us.". . .Sometimes God protects us by sending a messenger much as he sent Jeanne Assam last Sunday -- God does his work on Earth through us. Some refuse thinking God will directly intercede -- ain't gonna happen.

ROMAK IV
December 16, 2007, 04:39 PM
Church property should be as private property and the status of that property as a "gun free zone" up to the appropriate church authority. In this case, it was the opposite and the leadership had prepared for such an occassion, and thankfully so, the killer was stopped before exhausting his ammunition supply. There is no such rule prohibbiting firearms at my church, and I sometimes take old or unusual weapons from my collection to show to other interested people.

Some people believe that any form of killing is wrong, and they should be given that choice, since we are supposed to have freedom of religion, but in the context of the "Bible", there isn"t any prohibition. The commandment in the Ten Commandments, "Thou shall not Kill" is better translated "Thou shall not murder", since the Isrealites were urged by other passages to be vivilant in defending themselves. In the New Testament, the first Gentile converted by the Apostle Peter, was a ROman Centurian, and most certainly his duties included armed defense.

Redtail
December 16, 2007, 10:34 PM
Christians who ought to say that arming up is against God must read the Bible thoroughly.

Here are some scriptures to back it up:

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:36 Jesus Christ said that himself

Some would say that the sword symbolizes God's word but if you read clearly on the end it says buy one. You don't buy God's word, it is free.

Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. 11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

John 18:10-11

Notice that Peter is carrying a sword. Jesus never told him to get rid of it or give it up but rather to put it back on the sheath.

There's a scripture also on Old Testament that Israelites keep their swords, guess what, in the church, however I couldn't find it.

rockinrussky
December 17, 2007, 01:42 AM
I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned but... Most self prescribed 'progressive' and 'liberal' thinkers of our time will claim that they support seperation of Church and State and in theory I agree. Now, how is church seperated from the state when the State (ie any government) feels that it has the right to regulate the church in the manners of the 2nd amendment? I realize they don't have much respect for the 2nd amendment as it is but this issue of seperation is one they tout all the time. Hipocrisy anyone?
ex: "Oh no I don't want any crazy Christian telling me how to live my life. Wait what? they want to carry guns into their places of worship amongst others who are there of their own free will? No no no, guns are bad and they shouldn't do it cause WE said so." ->this must be the thought process going through their minds, because I honestly can't think of it any other way. And here I thought seperation of church and state was a non-relationship that went both ways :rolleyes:

outofbattery
December 17, 2007, 09:13 AM
The last couple times I've been in churches,I was wearing a Seecamp or SIG .380.Had wedding attire been a little less themed,I'd have worn something bigger.

It's a little strange to me that most states that seem to disallow carry in churches are in the bible belt,places that should be the most gun friendly,but that seems to follow many other restrictions as well.

Owens
December 17, 2007, 10:00 AM
Don't want to make this a religious thread. We are to be vigilent. God is not the one who comes to steal, kill and destroy. Don't expect a divine fly swatter to reach down out of the heavens when a BG shows up to do harm. We need to take personal responsibility. Trust that we will be guided by God.

For the lighter side of it, God did, by divine influence on JMB give us the 1911 didn't he now?:D

Landlocked Pirate
December 17, 2007, 10:15 AM
You know, the credibility of the author goes down the toilet when two out of his three reasons stated for why Murray went on his rampage were unconfirmed stuff. Playboy channel and 200K text messages?

I call BS on Doug Giles.

I have trouble following the lead of people who resort to such tactics. In the world of honorable people and honorable dealings, such presentations are not honorable.

Does anyone think that this article paints us as anything but ignorant gits?
The Redneck Bible? Jesus with a Glock?

C'mon, this buttmunch makes us all look like a bunch of inbred, banjo pickin albinos.
If you're not familiar with Doug Giles you would not be aware that his presentation is always deliberately over-the-top and full of sarcasm. Sometimes he goes a little too far for my tastes but he usually makes a good point.

romma
December 17, 2007, 10:18 AM
The thing that bugs me more than anything is the mindset: " I don't believe in guns in church. If a Madman comes in and kills me, then it's Gods will"...

I just don't get it! Especially if the mindset comes from pro-gunners.

Dorryn
December 17, 2007, 11:20 AM
I dont like his aggressive, sarcastic, violent stance. (2 Peter 2:18) Matthew Murray being shot was a good thing, but Mr. Giles is acting/writing totally inappropriately, and based on this angry rant, I would not classify him as any sort of Christian whatsoever. Threats? Mockery?

See:
Deuteronomy 32:34-35
Psalm 4:4
Matthew 5:21-22
Matthew 18:21-22
Ephesians 4:26-30

I read The Redneck Common Sense, Good People Live, Bad People Die version of the Bible

Clearly you haven't touched too much Ecclesiastes. Or Job. Or Malachi. Evil people prosper, good people usually dont.

Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape. - Malachi 3:15

You are always righteous, O LORD,
when I bring a case before you.
Yet I would speak with you about your justice:
Why does the way of the wicked prosper?
Why do all the faithless live at ease?
You have planted them, and they have taken root;
they grow and bear fruit.
You are always on their lips
but far from their hearts.
-Jeremiah 12:1-2 (emphasis mine)

jon_in_wv
January 6, 2008, 07:17 AM
My church isn't a gun free zone. Not when I'm there.

And Dorryn, you seem a bit confused. Some of the passages you listed don't even have anything to do with what is being discussed. I think the issue is one of being able to defend yourself while at church, not revenge.

Buck shot
January 7, 2008, 12:56 PM
I feel pretty safe in our southern church in the bible belt. I did have one guy tell me the next time I come busting in dressed like a shepard in a robe proclaiming the good news that I should let the "carriers" know. My wife was behind him and said he was up and had his 1911 in hand in a flash! He did a good job, and he's right next time I will let them know. My wife thought it was hilarious.

I don't think they could see mine under the robe.

Beside's Jesus would not need to carry. Remember he is in full control of all creation and just "spoke" everything into existance. We are the one's that need the sword (as Peter showed us).

RKBABob
January 7, 2008, 01:22 PM
I just cannot understand why anyone would think a church should be a "gun free" zone. Is it because pastors are likely to fly into a rage at the pulpit, and let loose something more than fire and brimstone? Seriously, I've never seen a preacher add extra emphasis to a rather compelling bit of scripture by adding a .45 caliber exclamation point.

No. Its not to protect the congregation from the true believers, or the pastor. Its to protect the sheep from the wolf who would specifically target large groups of people who are unlikely to be able to defend themselves. You see, a man bent on mass murder (no pun intended) will see these signs, realize that the tool he chose to do his killings isn't allowed, and just go home.

The amazing thing is, some people actually believe the paragraph above, but cannot believe in a higher power!

YES! We need guns in church... and in the mall... and at the schools. Its common sense. Mass killings happen where people are defenseless. If gun free zones aren't the cause of these incidents, then why don't we see snipers taking aim at police stations, army barracks, and NRA meetings?

We don't need to quote scripture to justify our position, not any more than we need to reference the Bible to prove humans need oxygen to survive. We just need to exercise the brain that our Creator has given us.

And that, folks, is called "preaching to the choir!" :D

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