[50 Shooter]

Better get out and check your cars & trucks.

http://www.boulderweekly.com/coverstory.html

[TheeBadOne]

1) In the case in the paper perhaps the victim was affiliated with a domestic environmental terrorist group and the trackers are FBI or some such.

2) There is also a growing amount of Private Investigators who track peoples movements for clients, usually for infidelity cases.

[benewton]

Not that I think anybody cares that I exist, but if they did, and attached one of those to mine, and I found it, I'd do the following:

1. Detach instrument from vehicle.

2. Place instrument on berm.

3. Fire normal practice with CCW: 50 rounds .40 S&W @ 25 yards

4. Move instrument to other side of berm.

5. Take AR out to play: 30 rounds SS109 at about 75 yards.
Penetration experiment/normal practice.

6. Take the AK out to play: 30 rounds FMJ, 30 JHP.
More penetration practice, plus FMJ to JHP comparison.

7. Remove circuit boards, check for non volitile memory.
Apply .22 LR, via Beretta mouse gun, to each chip, checking
penetration/performance of that round and platform.

8. Remove the remaining trash to just under my mailbox. Pi**
on it and wait for the crying: those things cost money, I know
nothing, and, for sure, I want to know who's on my a** and for
what reason.

Of course, I'd never consider screwing up a federal investigation (much), but I'd take long odds that the units aren't exactly labeled.

[bedlamite]

Just reattach it to a bus headed for Washington DC.

[Art Eatman]

Per the article, it sounds like that particular device was rather bulky. And, whoever attached it did a lousy job, given how easily it was found. It's a shame, too, since that whole "Animal Rights" bunch is pretty evil. That "I wouldn't do it, myself, but I support ALF." is as sleazy a copout as there is.

(I really like the signature line I've seen, that "Vegan" is an Indian word meaning Lousy Hunter.)

Art

[Moparmike]

[Voice of Reason]
I wonder if breaking it would constitute a federal crime. Although I personally believe that if it is on my property without my consent it belongs to me, breaking it wouldnt be the best idea.
[/Voice of Reason]

I personally advocate the suggestions of bedlamite or benewton :D. The government would learn that I am not so easily trifled with, and make their job harder if they wish to covertly know my actions and whereabouts.

[seeker_two]

1. Remove device from vehicle.

2. Attach device to large, helium-filled balloon.

3. Release balloon during strong wind.

4. Watch for frazzled Federal agents trying to follow you signal floating in the jet stream...:evil:

[Carlos]

vely interesting.

I'd like to see the tracking device. Looks like some further research is warranted.

[clem]

While I was in the Corps, they implanted a micro tracking/transmitted/receiver device in my left buttocks. To this day I still receive orders at night, while I'm asleep and THEY allways know where I'm at.

I think they did this to all Marines.:D

[BamBam]

Tracking AFL/PETA/GreenPeace types causes me no alarm.
However, SANE people shouldn't be tracked like this.

If I found one I'd affix it to the bumper of a BATF vehicle.

(Hope I didn't break any forum rules with this post)

BamBam

[PATH]

Gang I think the feds are a little more adept at placing items like this so that they are not easily found. Could be that this is a publicity stunt. Hmmmm, it could be a conspiracy though! Let me get my tin foil hat out and consult the Venusians!:rolleyes: :D

[Mike Irwin]

(I really like the signature line I've seen, that "Vegan" is an Indian word meaning Lousy Hunter.)

I've got a T-shirt that says that, Art.

Got a couple of laughs from vegetarian coworkers at the office.

[Mike Irwin]

"I wonder if breaking it would constitute a federal crime. Although I personally believe that if it is on my property without my consent it belongs to me, breaking it wouldnt be the best idea."

I don't think any court in the land would ever convict you of such a "crime," if it were to exist.

No markings to claim ownership, placed on your car, to my way of thinking it's essentially abandoned property.

[Camel]

Id say toss it in a box and have it shipped to Beijing. Theyd think you were a gun-nut and a Chinese spy :neener:

[Orthonym]

Maybe that's the one they were supposed to find, and there's a smaller, well-hidden one somewhere else? I wouldn't worry about this, Onstar is much more efficient.

[DrPsycho]

Thought it was to do with car equivalent of the "black box" before i clicked on that link. I too am surprised it's so big - cosidering the state of technology today.

[Khornet]

You openly support a terrorist organization, and your roommate is a convicted arson terrorist, and you frequently associate with others with known ties to such organizations.....and you're being unfairly singled out?

[Master Blaster]

Just curious, How many of you folks(like Me) are carring a personal tracking device voluntarily and dont realize it?


I'm sure most of you are. Its called DRRRRRRRUUUUMMMMMMMRRRRROOOOOLLLLLLL:


A CELL PHONE, YES YOUR CELL PHONE CAN BE USED TO TRACK YOU. :neener: :what:

Where's my tin foil hat??????????????????????????????

[brownie0486]

In the business for over 2 decades.

It was not a professional unit or professionaly installed.

One here posted that it could be a shill for the real device, that does ocurr but not usually so obviously. If we were to use two, one as backup, both would be hidden fairly well. Why would we want the party to know they were being watched.

The idea behind these is to gather intelligence about the subject and his coming and goings. How would you be able to discern his actions were normal if he knew he had a bug on his car? Defeats the original purpose of placing one on the vehicle.

That device probably does not have a range greater than 1/2 mile, and then perhaps line of sight as well. If it was me who found the tracker on my car I'd do this.

Go for a ride out to an unpopulated area in the country. Sit under a shade tree and take plates of people who go by for an hour or so. Run the plates, the ones coming back " no response" " plate unknown" ' not valid" etc would be your guy.

Repeat this several times until you get a duplicate plate popping up. Thats not always going to work if it is the feds as they swap vehicles regularly while tails are in progress over weeks and months.

Brownie

[Triad]

Big Brother is ALWAYS watching you. (http://users.chartertn.net/tonytemplin/FBI_eyes/) :p

[Edward429451]

Brownie? Advice? Good on Ya'! You're posts usually have a decidedly different tone. I'da thought you'd tell him to reinstall it on the bumper (sic).
Just kidding. Wow good post though.

How would a citizen run plates though?

(Ever wonder how come the ALF/PETA types don't hassle bikers over leather jackets?:D )

[Mike Irwin]

Since when, though, has the FBI been known to do things professionally?

As for tracking devices...

Come ON, people!

Everyone knows that's what the flu shot is for! :neener:

[brownie0486]

The directional devices [ tracking ] placed on vehicles the feds are currently using range in size from a little bigger than the size of a pack of cigarettes up to about the size of a portable phone.

They also require an antenna which needs to be placed where gps can grab the signal. So if the box is placed under the car and the antenna is not located where it can be picked up, it really isn't very effective, though some weak signals may get to the tracker it would not be very reliable.

There are directional transmitters that are self contained and will send a signal a relatively short distance, perhaps as far as line of sight or 1/4 mile dependant on the terrain, weather, etc. These types of transmitters are basically useless [ don't ask me how I know ]. They do not use the gps system.

In todays world, everyone uses technology to their advantage, it makes certain tasks easier than in days of old [ back when I started ]. The best, most effective units cost up to 5000.00 and sometimes more dependant on signal output power.

Most that are advertised for 200-900.00 are a waste of money and effort. In that line of work, you go big or you go home. The above based on practical experience and a steep learning curve over the years.

In Ma. anyone [ civilian ] can go to Boston and request a plate number be run for 5.00 at RMV hdqtrs. The information will give you registered owner, address of same, and title information on the m/v


Brownie

[Skunkabilly]

I decided to make a few bucks on the side and let the ATF agents move in with me. That way I have extra spending money, and they help keep the CA DOJ guys off my back :D

[Edward429451]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought some of them devices didn't need a power supply. That they (work like the chips) get a sattellite signal and it charges a capacitor in the device and then it auto dumps its signal back to source. Not really a live tracker, but more of a locater. (??) And that these type devices can be made no bigger than a quarter. Is this correct or am I out in left field??:D

Thanks Brownie.

[Deepdiver]

I am so glad that I read this.

For a while, I thought that I was just being paranoid,

then, I thought to myself, "No, I am not paranoid, maybe there are just people out there that want me to think that I am paranoid.",

now, I KNOW that there are people out there that want me to feel paranoid.
:what: !!

Excuse me, my CELLPHONE is ringing....if I don't return after answering it, please kiss the kids goodbye for me, and call the UN!!
:neener:

[Elmer Snerd]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought some of them devices didn't need a power supply. That they (work like the chips) get a sattellite signal and it charges a capacitor in the device and then it auto dumps its signal back to source. Not really a live tracker, but more of a locater. (??) And that these type devices can be made no bigger than a quarter. Is this correct or am I out in left field??
Do a search on Radio Frequency Identification or RFID.
http://www.aimglobal.org/technologies/rfid/
http://news.com.com/2010-1069-980325.html
http://www.junkbusters.com/rfid.html
http://www.privacyfoundation.org/privacywatch/report.asp?id=84
http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20030428S0074
http://www.epic.org/privacy/rfid/

I don't think that they will become a huge privacy violation in a commercial sense, especially if the exit door sends the tags an irreversible deactivation command as you leave the store(of course, i could be wrong). Commercial readers have a range of only a few feet. However, criminals might break the law(no, they would never do that) to build a higher-powered transmitter and a more sensitive reciever for nefarious purposes. Not to mention TLA's(Three Letter Agencies) that don't have to worry about piddling legal technicalities like the Constitution...

[hammer4nc]

brownie, thanks for the inside scoop on PI tactics. On the following, I have a couple questions:

Go for a ride out to an unpopulated area in the country. Sit under a shade tree and take plates of people who go by for an hour or so. Run the plates, the ones coming back " no response" " plate unknown" ' not valid" etc would be your guy.

I never tried to run plates, but I guess you're saying that govt. owned vehicles aren't in the dmv databases?

If govt. investigators thought you were trying to ID a tail, wouldn't they do something really sophisticated, like rent different cars by the day from Avis (duh)? I mean, if they're spending all the manhours and tracking electronics to begin with, they wouldn't overlook such relatively simple measure...or would they?

[Moparmike]

If govt. investigators thought you were trying to ID a tail, wouldn't they do something really sophisticated, like rent different cars by the day from Avis (duh)? I mean, if they're spending all the manhours and tracking electronics to begin with, they wouldn't overlook such relatively simple measure...or would they?

[Email's TLA listserv]

The TLA listserv told me to tell 'hammer4nc' "Thanks! We never thought of that!"

:neener: :neener:

[benewton]

Edward429451:

As far as I know, the RFID tags, currently being installed at your local wallyworld, require that the inquiring transmitter be very close to the chip being questioned. So far as I know, this remains the case.
Yes, you can get a 20 watt signal from a space craft running around Jupiter, but it requires precision directional antennae at both ends, which isn't gonna happen with a terrestial tracking device.
The pet tagging chips, as well as the human tagging chips, more or less run about the same as the RFID tags. So far as I know, they can identify, but they cannot track.

In essence, though, you do have the right theory of operation: they suck the power from the carrier.


ONSTAR, which was offered free in my Avalanche, is a direct tracking device, and you don't need to subscribe to be monitored. I declined, and I purchased one that's, hopefully, without that "feature". It for sure is without the antenna, which is, as you'd expect, the most visible part.

Cell phones are alive whenever their power is on: the towers "track" them as they go through the cells. How else? Too, by, I think, law, the cells can locate the transmitting phone within, don't really remember, 3 to 10 meters? (Something like that, I'm sure) Gotta find the location of those 911 calls, after all!

Our cell phone is carried by her, normally OFF, and only used for emergencies ("' Pizza with everything, minus fishies, with extra cheese, in 10?").
In my defense, she is, after all, in charge of feeding and dressing me!

And everybody (Tamera, enter here!) knows about females and phones.

Anyway, if you give it some thought, "they" already have all of the important information about you, they merely lack the ability to process and apply it. The latter is the part that's changing, AI, networking and overall computing power having changed over the last decade.

Me thinks that they can't process the information that they have, but I'm sure they will soon do so. Ain't no other way to prognosticate given the rate of change in the electronics field (long ago, and far away, I once made a proposal that only 256 DRAM be adopted for military systems: there was only on supplier, and I got trashed, in detail. Won one more, right?).

Best guess from me is that things won't peak for a few more years, but, in the meantime, since they already can track all things of importance, you may, in the very old male joke, which should be explained to the female types, have to take your time in tbe barrel.

I've no kids, and no real reason to do so, but, were I you, I'd suggest that, should they come for you, you take at least one with you.
FWIW, I hope, in my case, that it's not one of the locals, but, since once the cuffs are on, you're their toy....

[sm]

I think the statement about them having the ability to track and the means to do something about it has some merit. With the talk of having to get new cell phones with new technology (with a chip in case of 911), Vehicle GPS and interface ( again 911), Micro chips in people ( child abduction, medical history) and numerous other ways to "improve our quality of living".

Keep watering down, re-interpretating our rights and some day they will have the means to act.

From some research, there is a lot of 'civil disobedience" with the CIS/IT folks...seems like they enjoy giving fits. I think thats why I'm having so much fun learning CIS/IT at the moment. Hide in plain site and raise cain. Interesting how many feel strong about 2a and right to privacy.

If they tracked me today ...well once I f-i-n-a-l-l-y got out of the road construction...I made up for it on the backroads...

Oh Big Brother that was me with TN plates, and yes the body is stock but that engine has been blueprinted, supension been tricked and I've had her --well wound up-- with room to breath....:neener:

[brownie0486]

I know of no locals or fed 3 letters that rent em if they need them. That doesn't mean they wouldn't or couldn't though, it's just not really a point of contention. Their vehicles are all registered as [ unregistered ], with no response to inquiries from the M/V depts.

They don't need to rent them, they have many many many at their disposal in the motor pools. Were they to put 3-5 cars on you and play tag all day you would be considered very dangerous, especiallty today with the real threats due to 9-11 aftermath, they haven't the resources nor the inclination to spend those resources on anything but something they believe to be real potential where they may have to intervene in force.

Look at the Miami debacle. It took several agents in their cars from two fed offices to have enough resources to tail those two. Each agent is assigned a vehicle and they can pull the agents from wherever they need them through the local SAC's [ Senior agent in charge ] requests for assistance.

If it's federal boys [ sometimes the local state boys ] they call in reinforcements. I've been tailed by them a few times myself due to the nature of the beast [ work ] which takes me into areas ocassionaly where they are set up watching others.

Several tails are known as "cat and mouseing" taking turns in line behind you and running parellels on streets all in communication with each other. It's a BIG case if they are spending those resources after 9-11 now.

I haven't stayed up nor are most up on what they have available to them for the latest and greatest. The NSA can track you by satellite and watch you as you move if they want but thats high priced and only at the upper levels of threats when they have specifics which warrant it.

My impresion is it wasn't pros, I've seen whats available to our state agencies locally and they have some very sophisticated goodies, here they are made by hand by one of their own or a supplier to them who is a whiz at the latest micro technology. I know the guy in this state that helps them with fabrication, great guy and cunning in his approaches to surveillance bugs.

Anything is possible of course and can not be totaly ruled out.

Some devices can run 5 days continuous on their batteries which is very good. They can usually get to the units within that time frame if they are to continue forward on a person.

If they were playing cat and mouse and you took them for a lone country ride, hid the car off the road and watched, you'd be able to determine pretty quick if one were watching and tracking. The car stopped for an hour would bring enough curiousity where you would spot them looking for what you were up to after awhile. Keep in mind if they are doing this, they expect you to meet someone, recieve something, or be delivering something. They wouldn't wait to long after the car stoped moving to wonder and attempt to eyeball activities.

Don't forget to look up. If they really want you, look to the skies as well. They like to track movements by air. We've all seen the tv shows where they are using air support to track during chases, etc.

Brownie

[Edward429451]

What an extremely informative thread. I want to throw my cell phone away.

I can't. It's tied to my $$.:mad:

[Hal]

Techno-phobes unite!!!!

here they are made by hand by one of their own or a supplier to them who is a whiz at the latest micro technology. That's really quite funny :D

Rest assured,,,,you might THINK the four-eyed-geek-with-a-soldering iron type is making that by hand,,,but he ain't. ;) I mean really, I'm 100% capable of assembling such a device. Honestly,,,it doesn't take a brainiac, just an understanding of basic electronics,,,,

M/T is a machine only proposition though. The thing I'd put together (or anyone else for that matter) by hand would be roughly the size of a football field.

[50 Shooter]

Tracking people using a GPS monitor has already been done. I saw this on one of those FBI files or autopsy shows. Follow the link for the story.

http://www.thesunlink.com/redesign/2003-05-21/local/154305.shtml