[30-06 lover]

I am finally getting my own house, and the wife and I would really like to get a dog. She really likes Golden Retrievers, but I am a pheasant hunter and am worried that a Golden's fur will pick up every little sticker in the field. I don't wan't to shave the dog because I am afraid that when I go after ducks a few weeks after pheasants, it will freeze. I have also heard that as of late Golden's are becoming more and more agressive. (Not a good thing as my wife and I are planning kids in the next few years)

My dad has a Lab and her coat doesn't pick up much from the field, but she is VERY hyper and chews everything, and from what I understand, that is typical of labs, but I don't know.

I am basically looking for a dog that will bark at unknown people, hunt waterfowl and upland, but be calm enough for the house.
So of the two, which would you choose and why. Thanks!
-Mike

[Clipper]

I'd choose a Chessie...

[gunmn74]

I have owned both and my nod goes to the Golden. I have owned two
Goldens and they were both excellent hunters.
They will lay around the house and enjoy the piece and quite.
I now own a Lab and most cant stand piece and quite.
If you want a dog that is going to live in your house the Golden
is a much better family dog.
That being said a friend of mine has a good old lab that lays in
the house by the fire and obeys his every command.:scrutiny:
After I got my Lab I found I needed a shock collar, the guy at the
register at the sporting good store said "bought a lab huh".:cuss:

[Smokey Joe]

.30-'06 lover--Burrs in the fur is the biggest objection there is to the Golden Retreiver. Generally, they are mellow, "nice" dogs. That said, they don't have the retrieving "drive" that a Lab does. And they certainly can't handle cold water or bad weather nearly as well. They'll give it a sincere try, but if they just can't find the bird, well, sorry, Boss, now please let me back under the blanket.

As to Labs being hyper, and chewing everything, well, they DO have lots of energy, and if you can't manage a walk and/or retrieving session with 'em EVERY day, they will find other outlets for that energy, whether you like it or not. As retrievers, they are bred to like having things in their mouths; this is natural and normal. They can be taught what is and isn't OK to chew, but they do need something to chew and to haul around in their mouth. And as they get past puppyhood and teenagerishness they get better about this. They laugh at any but the coldest water and any but the absolute worst weather.

No--or almost no--burrs on a Lab or on a Chessie, and those few, easily removed. But, no beautiful plume of a tail nor pretty "feathers," either.

As to a Chessie, their coat is kinda oily (and therefore can smell) and they can be a little snappish toward ear-pulling kids and toward strangers, as well as having a mind of their own regarding being trained. BTW, they have every bit as much energy as any Lab. They have even more "retrieveing drive" than a Lab, if that's possible. I would NOT get a Chessie for a house-dog where you are planning to have kids, unless you are already an experienced dog trainer, and have the time and energy to do a good, careful job of it. Chessies don't know what cold, icy water is--They were bred to ignore waves, water, and ice, to get that duck, and they'll last longer than you in the worst imaginable weather.

Now, I've been talking in generalities about the breeds. You will find aggressive Goldens, calm Labs, and mellow, Chessies if you look hard enough, but that's not what to expect from these three great breeds.

My preference would be for a Lab--they are wonderful with kids, can be taught to bark when strangers approach the house (and just let someone try to threaten one of "their" kids), are teriffic retrievers, great at upland as well as waterfowl hunting, and make very good house-dogs. But you gotta put in the training time, you just gotta. Well, that's true for any dog you might get, even a Chiuahua, if you want it to be a good family member. Or a good retriever. Or a good anything, except food receptacle.

[Spinner]

My dad has a Lab and her coat doesn't pick up much from the field, but she is VERY hyper and chews everything, and from what I understand, that is typical of labs, but I don't know.

That's just typical of pups isn't it??

Young dogs tend to be high energy and take a lot of work. Labs are intelligent dogs and they push the boundaries, testing their pack leaders (you) to see what they can get away with, where they fit in the world, etc. They definitely go thru a "teenager" stage and they can take a few years to settle down, but some dogs will be more of a handful than others ... it really depends on the individual dog.

What you need to do is talk to as many owners of both labs and goldens as you can find, spend some time with both types of dogs, observe behaviour, ask question of their owners (e.g. "do goldens pick up every sticker about?"), maybe even look at other breeds (e.g. GSPs, Visla's, Springer spaniels, Brittany's ... all excellent hunting dogs and brilliant family dogs too). Best thing would be to see hunting breeds in action and learn how they tend to work. The more you research, the better you'll understand the tendencies of the breed and spot the individual characters of each dog too.

Spinner

[TimM]

Personally this is my pick. I love these dogs and they are very versatile.

Spinone Italiano

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z126/instag8r/italian_spinone_001.jpg
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z126/instag8r/spinoneitaliano.jpg

[30-06 lover]

Thanks for the advice. I had narrowed it down to Labs or Goldens based on many factors...

My wife does not like GSP or any other "skinny with no belly" dogs, so most pointers are out. Pointers are also way more energized from what I have had experience with and have seen in the field. I have hunted over both pointers and flushers and have to say my preference goes to flushers.

My dad had a Chessie, and she smelled terrible most of the time because my dad would not give her a bath during hunting season due to the advice of the vet who told us not to, as it would wash away the oil that makes them so winter resistant. She was also way too strong willed for me. I like a dog to follow their nose rather than follow my command of going where I thought the bird went down, but I don't like it when my dog decides she doesn't like this pheasant field and keeps trying to leave the line. Mine also didn't like kids all to much which would worry me about getting one.

My favorite dog was a 50/50 Golden/Lab mix. Had the coat of a Lab, but the personality of a Golden. Great in the field, calm in the home. I have looked and finding one is damn hard.

Basically that is why I have been looking at getting one or the other.

[1911 guy]

I've got a lab that's been with me since BWAS (before wife and son). She's ten years old and absolutely great with our three Y.O. son. Mostly laid back in the house, no "off" switch outside.

Keep a lab pup in chew toys. If you don't, they'll chew YOUR toys. They stop for a while, then go at it again when the molars start to come in, a little over two years of age, if I remember correctly when I replaced my T.V. remote, bookcase, bedspread, baseball glove, etc. :D

Frankly, the wife and I have decided, barring some remote and unforeseen circumstance, we'll stick with labs. We'll be getting another in a year or two so our son will have one to grow up with.

[Kingcreek]

I was raised with goldens starting over 40 years ago and had atleast one in the house until a few years ago. Great pets and can be very strong hunters if the genetics haven't been completely poluted by poor breeding. I was very disappointed when looking for another and thats when we bought our first lab. Now have 2 labs. They are wired very differently. That can be both good and bad and I agree with the comments posted above.
Goldens from GOOD hunting bloodlines are wonderful if you can find them. Great dogs and easy to train. Great with kids, a little more maintenence with the fur but worth it IMO. Really advise researching the genetics before starting a relationship with a golden, a lot of beautiful idiots out there that wouldn't hunt anything but thier food dish, and some serious health issues with many of the lines.
Labs may be starting to have some genetic issues and may eventually go the way of irish setters and goldens. Still alot of super labs available but again watch the genetics. insist on some proven bloodlines and a health guarantee. They can be a little tougher for a novice to train as it isn't always easy to channel all that energy where you want it, but if done well, you can have the best of both pet and hunting worlds. I like the smaller labs with proven hunting lines and always get OFA certs for hips, elbows, and eyes. Many good hunters with UKC registry.
Chessies are tougher in all ways. A good one is practically a bullet-proof hunting machine but unless you are very lucky or a naturally gifted or very experienced dog trainer, they can be a hard-headed challenge and more work than some folks will want to tackle. They can be awsome hunters and pets but I don't recomend one for a novice dog owner.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Decide what you are after then go looking for the pup. Anybody can have love-at-first-sight with a cute litter of puppies but you are going to spend maybe 12+ years and no small amount of money on this addition to your family. My philosophy is "the money you spend on good genetics and good nutrition, you'll save on vet bills."
Best of luck to you.

[gym]

I have a yellow lab, my second one. My last one would have made a great hunting dog as she had natural intelligence, and anticipated threats etc. My current one is like a big squeeze toy, she's a great dog, but hates the water, which is very strange for a lab, even when I carried her into the pool, she scrambled to get out. I think you have to really watch, the puppies if you are able to. see which of them is a risk taker, my last one would look at me, and if i gave her the nod, she was in the water. Also never had to worry about her running into the road, I'm sure this one can be trained, as I started to work a little with her, but she is more of a pet than anything else. My stepsons choc lab, which passed on recentlly, would go to the store and bring you back the change, lol. Like people, some have it and some don't. Oh yea, and feed your dog a "raw diet" or "EVO" the holistic foods, I did a lot of research when my last two dogs died, and the grains in nost of these dog foods we use , like sience diet, and all the rest, have grains in them as thier main "filler", which slows down the immune system, and causes them to pass on earlier than they should.

[03Shadowbob]

I have one 12 year old yellow lab and a 3 month old chocolate lab. I love Goldens however the coat is an issue. All labs are high energy until 3 or 4 years when they start to settle down. They will jump, scratch or paw, chew, tug, etc. almost anything and everything in sight. When my yellow lab was a puppy, I found her inside, yes inside, my couch. She chewed one side open and when I got home she was in there asleep. I laugh at it now but at the time I wanted to kill her.
I worked with her every day for hours on end and she eventually was trained on both hand and voice commands. You can put piece of bacon on her snout and tell her to stay and she will drrol a gallon a spit but will not get it until I tell her. In her prime, I would throw rocks into the lake and she would dive and get them, up to 7' down.
She's been a great dog but her time is almost up. That is why I got the chocolate. Here's a pic of them when Bailey was just 7 weeks old. She is now 30 lbs and paws bigger than her "momma's".
Labs IMO are one of the best dogs for families. I have an 18 month old son and both do great around him. Just don't try to spank my son or else Chance may have something to say about it. :)
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/BJCWALL/Bailey.jpg

[omcjf]

I currently have one of each. I've got a chocolate lab and a 7 mo. old golden retriever. The lab is the best hunting dog I've ever owned and it's too early to tell how the golden will turn out. I've had a golden in the past as well. I think both of them make excellent family dogs and hunting breeds. I don't think you'd go wrong either way. But neither one of them guarantees that they will be worth ten cents just because they are hunting breeds so choose wisely and work often with it.

[ArmedBear]

Neither dog is exactly a pheasant dog, unless you find and flush the birds yourself and shoot them over a pond.

People talk about "pointing labs", so I suppose they must exist. I've never seen one, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. The "fieldy" labs I've seen behaved and were built a lot like pointers, though.

If you want a house dog, go to the local animal shelters or rescue organizations. There are lots of sweet, affectionate, fun dogs who need homes and face imminent death otherwise. They're cheap to adopt, too. Hell, there are even some hunting breeds.

We've got one of each, a rescued dog and a hunting bred dog with champion lines. I can tell you which one is the happiest house dog, and I'm sure you can guess.

Our hunting dog is an amazing specimen, if you don't mind running him 5-10 miles a day, but since you're looking for a house dog for your wife, and she doesn't want a pheasant dog, then you can get a great rescue dog with a good temperament.

[30-06 lover]

Thanks again for the replies. I have trained dogs in the past, and feel that I am able to do a good job, but I doubt my abilities with somethine like a Chessie. I am really looking into labs, but after some more thought on the issue, I concluded that I am much more of a pheasant man than a waterfowl man, and when I hunt waterfowl, I hunt them with my dad and brothers who all have retrievers, so I think I am looking for a upland dog. Can you all point me in the right direction for a flushing upland dog. I stumbled across some info on Springers and am now considering them, but don't know a whole lot about them. What do you all think? Thanks!!!

[ArmedBear]

Here's a list of breeds you might want to consider. Some might even appeal to your wife's aesthetics. Not all VHD's look like pointers.

Page of breed links, with pictures: http://www.sandiegonavhda.com/



Can't say anything about Springers. Nobody I've seen uses them, but that could be regional. Brittany Spaniels, definitely.

[Kingcreek]

Springers are wonderful family pets and can be great hunters also.
Best pheasant dog I ever had was a male golden. He was smart and had a great nose. Typically goldens have a very strong desire to please thier master and if they understand the mission, they are a real joy to hunt.
Pointing labs are usually a lab with some vizla crossbred into them. They can be real good I'm told. The only one I have hunted with was OK but didn't have the typical lab high drive for retrieving.
My labs are fine pheasant dogs but I think my goldens generally had slightly better noses.
Gordons and some of the other setters also make good family/hunting dogs.

[Jorg]

I am a pheasant hunter and am worried that a Golden's fur will pick up every little sticker in the field
My family has always had goldens and we pheasant hunt a bit, so I have some experience with this. Where we go, the main things are cockleburrs and burdock. A golden certainly will pick up most of those. Burdock isn't bad because you just cut into it and it falls apart. Cockleburrs on the other had, can be pretty bad. Usually they'll pull most of them out themselves. There will be some under their front legs you might have to get out, but you can mitigate that a bit by trimming the hair there. Not shaving it, but just removing some of the longer stuff. Same with around the ears. The nice thing is a golden will usually let you work on them to get them out.

I have also heard that as of late Golden's are becoming more and more agressive
I've not seen this. My 4 year old golden is probably the most gentle dog I've seen.

I am basically looking for a dog that will bark at unknown people, hunt waterfowl and upland, but be calm enough for the house.
That's what my golden does. Barks at strangers who come to the door or around the side of the house, goes for hours when it comes to hunting, and then lays around the house the rest of the year.

That said, they don't have the retrieving "drive" that a Lab does
You need to come spend an afternoon with my little golden. :) I've never seen a dog so obsessed with retrieving. He might be an anomoly, but even lab fans who have seen him comment he has an obsession.


While a golden might not be the best upland dog out there, mine does ok finding doves, pheasants and grouse. But where he really shines are those other 10 months of the year when he just like to hang out with me, whether it is laying at my feet while I am on the computer, chasing a ball in the backyard, hiking, or just being a good dog.

[omcjf]

I have to disagree a little bit that neither dog is exactly a pheasant dog. I've had 2 labs and 2 retrievers and I do a ton of pheasant hunting both here in Minnesota and a lot in South Dakota and I think that they are almost an ideal pheasant dog. I also have hunted a lot with Springers and I wouldn't mind a bit having one of those in the field. The Springers actually seem a little more willing to get into the 'thick' stuff that labs and retrievers won't, and they seem to hold out better than the larger dogs over a long day.

[Bearhands]

get a 1/2 lab, 1/2 golden... best of both

[Spinner]

I've hunted pheasants over a Springer Spaniel and I have to say that little dog impressed me. She was such a hard working dog. She dived into and through any vegetation like a greased eel and spent the whole day zig zagging in front of the two hunters back and forth. She absolutely loved it and at the end of the day was still ready for more.

A good springer is an excellent upland dog and apparently they are not too shabby at retrieving and water work as well, though not as strong as a good labrador in that area. My neighbour has been a lab man most of his hunting life, and he's now converted to Springers - he's that impressed by them.

They are very high energy dogs, very intelligent and consequently need plenty to do to keep them busy. They also have longer fur which can pick up burrs, but my neighbour doesn't seem to have too many problems in that regard. They are excellent family dogs, love kids and love to play with kids. I'm not sure how they'd go as guard dogs to be honest - possibly not that well.

I find it incredibly sad that many fine hunting breeds have been destroyed by people breeding for show. A "perfect" looking dog can be absolutely useless for the role it was originally intended to perform. Show breeders have an awful lot to answer for in my opinion.

[SoonerSP101]

I have a 7 year old chocolate lab that I'm STILL waiting for her to settle down. But you talk about loyal!!! Never a more loyal breed. You can't get them to run away, and believe me I've tried.

[salthouse]

Make sure you work with a good breeder. Do your homework here. A few extra $$$ can save a lot in the long run. We have a golden that has been an amazing family dog, and very healthy. He points naturally but is not a hunter.

[nmlongbow]

I have a 9 year old Golden and a 5 year old chocolate lab. The Golden is the better hunter and companion, better with the kids and much easier to train than the lab. The Golden is purebred with no papers and the lab has an impressive pedigree.
My Golden also has a much softer mouth and never chewed anything, you don't even want to know what the lab has eaten.
But, I think my experience is the exception. Generally labs are much better hunters than Goldens and have much more drive at least according to all of the field trials I've seen.

My mom bought a nice Golden last year and while it was a great dog around people, it was very aggressive around every other dog.

Also, while at the lake last year 2 Goldens on a leash attacked my Golden. Luckily my 150lb Great Pyrenee's was right behind him for backup. It was a mess but at least my dogs weren't hurt.

[Bwana John]

Never discipline a golden with anything more than you voice, and expect them to get their feelings hurt when you do.

Never discipline a lab with anything more than your hand, dont worry they will get over it.

Never discipline a chessie with anything less than a 2X4, or expect them to go right back to what they were doing wrong.

[Cocked & Locked]

I prefer Labs...not interested in other breeds. Most I've owned are hyper until about 2-3 years old. Then they mellow out.

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/6675271/258034383.jpg

[sixgunner455]

Labs are great. Goldens, too.

I have a Brittany, and love it.

[ArmedBear]

Both Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers are waterfowl retriever breeds, obviously. Good ones should be EXCELLENT at waterfowl hunting, people's experiences with poor-quality individual dogs notwithstanding.

Both breeds have been completely screwed by their popularity as family dogs belonging to non-hunters. Most Goldens and Labradors you come across would probably make lousy hunters, not that anyone will find out.

However, a Lab or a Golden bred by a top-notch hunting breeder, not a puppy mill, not a "pet-quality" breeder, not a cheat, not a liar, but a good, reputable hunting breeder with titled dogs in the pedigree, will be GREAT dogs for hunting.

Now the breeds weren't bred for upland hunting. Some variants may be, but that's not their origin.

There's a huge difference between a top-notch upland dog and a top-notch waterfowl dog, though.

An upland dog can go for miles and miles, and hours and hours, looking for birds. But it usually isn't fond of sitting in a duck blind. VHD's can be used for duck hunting, but if you're planning on sitting in a blind for hours at a time, they'll be harder to manage.

A good waterfowl dog will sit next to you in the blind, and retrieve when needed. That's what they're bred for. Does that sound like an upland dog?

An individual dog has its own traits and personality, but there are also breed standards for behavior. You can't make general statements about an entire breed of dog, except based on those standards. "My lab does great on quail!" might be true, but that's not the breed standard. "My Golden was dog-aggressive!" or "My Golden bit childrens' limbs off!" might be true, but again, that's not the breed standard at all!

WRT your wife not wanting an upland dog, hell, I like Bully breeds, too; I don't expect our Pit Bull to hunt quail, though. She can cuddle on the couch, chase tennis balls, and give love to everyone we meet, though, so that's what she does. That and pre-washing the dishes, pots and pans. For bird hunting, we got a hunt-bred Vizsla. Frankly, while he's sweet, cute and funny, he's not nearly as good a house dog as the Pit Bull. But he's got all the characteristics that make a great bird dog, and none that don't.

Maybe your wife would like one of the Italian breeds, Muensterlanders, or one of the other non-skinny VHD breeds. They're all cute, and not skinny. Again, check the link I posted above.

Bracco Italiano ----------- Portuguese Pointer ----------- Large Muensterlander ----------- Wirehaired Pointing Griffon

http://www.sandiegonavhda.com/images/bracco1.jpghttp://www.sandiegonavhda.com/images/portpoint.jpghttp://www.sandiegonavhda.com/images/large-munster.jpghttp://www.sandiegonavhda.com/images/wire-point-griffon1.jpg


I don't know about "pointing Labs" bred with Vizsla in their lines, but I do know that there are Lab lines that are built a lot like thicker black Vizslas -- probably not your wife's style, either.

Two dogs might be a better plan. Again, you can get a great house dog at the pound for cheap, and rescued dogs seem to know it and love you all the more for it. Then you can go and find the ultimate pheasant dog, instead of a duck dog you hope will work on pheasant.

[halfacop]

You could go my way........

I bought a 50/50

Half Golden and Half Lab (he's laying at my feet as I type this)

What a great dog. He literally has the best of both dogs. And the only place he picks up burrs and fodder is in his tail!

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p23/halfacop/Picture015.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p23/halfacop/IowaTGDougD22007016.jpg

[Cougfan2]

I laugh at it now but at the time I wanted to kill her.

There's a saying, "God made puppies so we won't kill them". :D

[Mortonspoint]

The best advice I got is to get a highly recommended breader. A good breader will ask you tons of questions so that they can determine what you want and how your going to handle the dog and what dog they have, if any, will meet your expectations.

I have a pointing yellow female lab. I got her from Black Forest kennels in Co. I bought her sight unseen and had her flown to MI. That said it took me about 10 months to get the dog. I made it very clear as to what I wanted in my dog. Temperment was No.1, Female No.2, Yellow color was No.3, Pointing ability N0.4, I wanted a dog around 60 lbs max. so that was No.5

If I'm lucky I will get in maybe 20 hunting days a year. The dog is a family member (pet) first. Therefore temperment is critical and I got it. A good breader who really takes pride in what they do will care to know their dogs and will match you to what you want. It will take time, be patient. It was recomended that I pass on two litters because the breader didn't think the dogs would match my criteria. I'm glad I did. Be firm in what you want and don't compromise. Talk to many who have delt with the breader. Do your homework and you will get exactly what you want, I did.

[30-06 lover]

Halfacop, that dog looks just like the Lab/Golden Mix I had except mine was black (Her name was Ebony). I would buy another one in a heartbeat, but I am having a hard time finding one, especially one that has hunting line breed into them.

I talked to my wife and we pretty much agreed that a spaniel or Brit will work for us as they look acceptable to her but are still hunters. I understand both are known to be hyper/active breeds, but I think I should be able to train them to calm down in the house. If I were to get a ESS would they be good with kids? How about with another non hunting dog? Are they as easy to train as a lab? Thanks again for all the info. Without forums I would be so lost.

[HM2PAC]

Never discipline a golden with anything more than you voice, and expect them to get their feelings hurt when you do.

Never discipline a lab with anything more than your hand, dont worry they will get over it.

Never discipline a chessie with anything less than a 2X4, or expect them to go right back to what they were doing wrong.

That about sums it up.

My lab puppy is a year old now. I started training him when he was about 10-12 weeks old. He retrieved this season very well, and sat in the blind very well behaved.......with his training collar on. He can be strong headed, but no where nearly as bullish as my friends Chessie. The dog will not obey simple commands and doesn't come with us any more. He is going to try a bit sterner take on training now.

[sixgunner455]

Are they as easy to train as a lab?

I don't know, I've never had one. I always had terriers before. My Brittany is the easiest, most trainable dog I've ever had. She's also a bit more energetic than most of the dogs I've had, with the exception of the Airedale.

She is an easily trained dog, though. She's small enough to sit on my lap and still leave room for my 8 year old or a book. A GSP or Vizsla (the other ones I was looking at when I got her) wouldn't leave so much extra space.

[ArmedBear]

Our Vizsla is oddly compact when he curls up in your lap. He's gangly.

WRT training, there's something to note. A labrador is bred to emphasize different traits, including sitting still sometimes. An upland or versatile hunting dog is bred to be independent and at least somewhat dominant, so the dog will confidently leave its owner's side and search for birds. They're not bred to sit still, generally. The dogs are also very intelligent.

This means they can be a challenge to train. They're smart and highly trainable, but they're also hyperactive and independent-minded. Expect this, and it will be easier on you.:)

http://ellie.crankylabs.com/albums/puppies-and-stuff/santaone.sized.jpg

[uk roe hunter]

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff91/ukroehunter/DSCF0823.jpg

This is my bitch Daisy. we do lots of mud and water so a lab is a must. if you are going to have your dog in the water in the winter it would be better to have a lab. they are pretty waterproof and tough. A retrievers longer coat will make it cold.

some will hunt as well as retrieve, daisy does and she will do cover, but not all will.

steve

[ArmedBear]

Man, those are some conditions there, uk roe hunter!

The OP is in California, but he didn't say where.:)

[ArmedBear]

WRT trainability and natural tendency towards dominance...

For those familiar with the meanings of canine body language and eye contact, this is a picture of our 8-week-old Vizsla puppy's reaction when we told him "No." If you know dogs, this picture is very telling.

http://ellie.crankylabs.com/albums/puppies-and-stuff/helooksatme.jpg

[skinewmexico]

The best dogs I've seen lately were three Boykin Spaniels. Fabulous on quail and dove, I don't know why they wouldn't be good on anything else. Of course, the guy that owned them spent what I hope is roughly my lifetime earnings paving the road into his ranch (in the 1980s), so they've had some pretty good training.

As a general rule, I'd rather go hunt and not shoot anything than have to deal with most of the dogs people bring out. YMMV. I kind of like the hybrid idea, since so many formerly working dogs have had the work bred out of them, and the looks bred into them. Not having an AKC standard is probably why Border Collies and Australians aren't completely brain dead.

[Skoghund]

ESS are good with children. Mine never managed to eat more than two a week :). They do tend to eat the furniture like most pups and have a habit of getting on to the window sill, mantle piece,tables, kitchen work surfaces ect. This is due to their ability to jump. But they are great hunting dogs. I have a Cockerspaniel now. He's a great dog for Pheasants. Another springer is on the list for the future. But i do keep my dogs in kennels outside.

[Spinner]

Not having an AKC standard is probably why Border Collies and Australians aren't completely brain dead.

Oh, believe me they're getting there!! There are huge differences between Border Collies bred for showing and those bred for working. The show lines are shorter and all markings are symmetrical with very little white on them, the working dogs are taller, leaner, markings don't matter so much (in fact some prefer assymmetrical markings because its easier to tell which way the dog is standing at a distance) and the working dogs are definitely smarter, less neurotic and easier to train for working. We've got 2 BCs, 1 from show lines and 1 from working lines .... I'd never give either of them up but I'll take a worker any day.

Spinner

[ArmedBear]

he window sill, mantle piece,tables, kitchen work surfaces ect

...starting at a very early age.

http://ellie.crankylabs.com/albums/puppies-and-stuff/step2.sized.jpg

[dmftoy1]

I think you've gotten some great advice and I'm not sure what to add but I'll throw in my .02.

If you're serious about a golden then find a good breeder and then spend some time with the parents. I'm on my third golden, the first two could get more burrs in their fur than you could imagine but the third has an almost oily fur that seems to shed them pretty quickly. I usually only have to cut the worst of them out of her chest hair and tail. I think goldens are much easier to train than labs but the labs might be a bit stronger in cold wet weather. My goldens think NOTHING of jumping in the river every day and swimming even if it's 20-30 degree's out and there are chunks of ice floating down. (did it on this morning's and this afternoon's walk as a matter of fact)

In terms of hunting noses I think it's hit or miss. I've had one that was great on pheasants with very little training, one that is absolutely hell on wheels, and one that has absolutely not interest in any critters. The one I have with the best nose will pick up a pheasant way across a field of brush and just work back and forth until you get close and then flush it. I really wish I had spent more time on the obediance with that dog! :)

My goldens will bark and act mean towards strangers, but all a stranger has to do is pet them once and they are friends forever. (not good watch dogs. :) )

Just my .02

Regards,
Dave

[Hobie18]

Hi:

My wife is a hobby breeder of Golden Retrievers. We highly recommend that you take a look at Cesar Millan's (Dog Whisperer) books on canine psychology.

His book "Cesar's Way" is outstanding, and also available as a 4 disk CD set.

Understanding canine behavior with additional training (Hunting, or whatever)
will give you a really balanced dog.

Best of luck to you, and good hunting..


Hobie