FOX and CNN reporting shots fired at N.Y. City Hall


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dinosaur
July 23, 2003, 02:40 PM
Watching Fox now. Supposed to be 2 shot including the original shooter. The City Council was in session.

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Rickstir
July 23, 2003, 02:43 PM
Unconfirmed reports list two police officers as hurt and taken out on stretcher. Mayor is unharmed. No word on the shooter.

Lictalon
July 23, 2003, 02:48 PM
That's not possible.

NYC has very strict gun control that keeps all criminals away from guns. :rolleyes:

greyhound
July 23, 2003, 02:55 PM
Are y'all as concerned about this raft of shootings as I am? We all know that the way to stop this stuff is to let people carry, but to the sheeple this could be a prompt to call for more laws.

Mike Irwin
July 23, 2003, 02:58 PM
From Reuters News Service

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - At least two people were shot inside New York's City Hall on Wednesday, but there was no confirmation of the extent of their injuries, emergency officials said.



The City Council Chamber was crowded with legislators at the time of the shooting shortly after 2 p.m. and Mayor Michael Bloomberg was also in the building but he was unharmed, a spokesman said.


New York has been on highest security alert since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks destroyed the World Trade Center, killing 2,800 people.


It was not clear how anyone could pass through City Hall metal detectors with a gun, but people familiar to the staff can proceed into the building without checks.


Early reports said police were seeking a man in a blue suit who fled from the scene.


The building was evacuated and City Hall Park around the building was cordoned off by police."

4v50 Gary
July 23, 2003, 03:10 PM
Concur. What owner of a registered gun would do that? Insanity and unlawful.:uhoh:

Maddogkiller
July 23, 2003, 03:11 PM
-hugs, kisses, and warm n fuzzies for everybody

Mostly Harmless
July 23, 2003, 03:16 PM
But.. but... but how can this be? Guns are banned in NYC so how can this be happening?

/sarcasm

J.

sar
July 23, 2003, 03:27 PM
I wonder what this will play out to be because having been to city hall recently it is hard for a non-badge to go anywhere without going through a metal detector and a wand.

Michael_2112
July 23, 2003, 03:34 PM
So much security that I'm amazed someone could get a handgun through.

How could this happen in NYC with such strict gun control laws???? Amazing, I thought that these laws prevented things like this from happening. :rolleyes:

GSB
July 23, 2003, 03:34 PM
Watch. This will be used by the Feinstein/Brady/Sugarman crowd as an example of why we need the AW Ban expanded and even more laws to curb the proliferation of "weapons of assassination".

KMKeller
July 23, 2003, 03:36 PM
The shooter had a Glock 7...:what:

dinosaur
July 23, 2003, 03:41 PM
The victim is identified as Brooklyn councilman James Davis. The shooter is still at large and is supposed to be a political opponent of Davis.

Sportcat
July 23, 2003, 04:06 PM
just read on cnn.com that one councilman was dead and that the shooter "may" have been wounded.

McPherson
July 23, 2003, 04:13 PM
Be prepared for the editorial machine to start gearing up against RKBA again. They never miss a chance such as this to start whipping up hysteria.

-Adam

HBK
July 23, 2003, 04:14 PM
Wow, I guess those gun laws in NYC are really working. I wonder if they will realize they need to allow private citizens to carry guns or if they will just usher a call for more gun laws...that won't work.

I am sorry that this happened and my sympathies go to the councilman's family.

NIGHTWATCH
July 23, 2003, 04:15 PM
It wasnt me! :D

Proves our point. Gun Control is a MYTH.

Carlos Cabeza
July 23, 2003, 04:38 PM
But.. but... but how can this be? Guns are banned in NYC so how can this be happening?

Inside a state level facility too,..........Those laws sure keep the criminals in line don't they ??!!!???:rolleyes:

P95Carry
July 23, 2003, 04:46 PM
yep .... crime can surface anywhere ... even in NYC where no one has their right to carry and defend themselves.

May well have happened too fast to have been totally avoided but sure as hell .... the odds may have been better. Great news ..... NOT!

Condolences to the councilman's family.

Mal H
July 23, 2003, 04:51 PM
Threads on same topic merged.

toro
July 23, 2003, 04:53 PM
They are reporting two dead. The councilman and the man who shot him. They are at a loss as to how the guns got into city hall. It happened while a council meeting was in session. James Davis is the councilman's name. They are asking how this happened? How did he get in and fire a number of rounds and also escape? They thought 15 to 20 shots were fired. This is not considered terrorism

WNBC says shootout occured between councilman Davis and the gunman. The gunman was shot by a bodyguard. It was a Shootout between the counciman and man named Askew. OH! I just heard that the councilmen are allowed to be armed. Davis was a previous police officer and had a license to carry.

Mrs. Toro


----------------------------------------------------
1 Kings 9:4,5
And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statures and my judgments: Then I will establish the throne of the kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

Prof
July 23, 2003, 05:01 PM
This was reported: "The security officer, who was on the floor of the chamber, shot up at the gunman, striking him five times, the sources said. " That's pretty darn good shooting! :eek:

Mike Irwin
July 23, 2003, 05:06 PM
One AP story is stating that the gunman accompanied the Councilman into the building, and that's apparently how he managed to get the gun through security.

mete
July 23, 2003, 05:11 PM
Hypocrisy again !! The murdered Councilman Davis was ANTI_VIOLENCE and ANTI-GUN but as an excop still carried his gun ! He apparently brought into the meeting ( past security) a rival who murdered him and was then killed by security people.

Destructo6
July 23, 2003, 05:14 PM
Political cronyism appears to be the method of circumventing security through which all other peons must pass.

10-Ring
July 23, 2003, 05:14 PM
The system is only as good as its weakest link. If people are allowed to circumvent the system, things go wrong.

Maddogkiller
July 23, 2003, 05:14 PM
One AP story is stating that the gunman accompanied the Councilman into the building, and that's apparently how he managed to get the gun through security.


I truly hope that this is true. It may well lead to EVERYBODY having to go through the same rectal exam upon entering "secure facilities."


This BS about some being more equal than others is the very reason that the prohibition on granting titles of nobility was placed in the Constitution.



Forget what I just wrote. It was uncivilized of me. Hugs, kissess and warm n fuzzies for everybody

NIGHTWATCH
July 23, 2003, 05:22 PM
The gunman was a man that was to run against Davis in the next election. He gained access to city hall because he was with Davis. What this means is that the NYC council has realized that determined people will not be stopped. I doubt though that they will get it. :mad: Im already hearing cries for more restrictions. :banghead:


And get this, Davis was armed! He had a gun holstered but was unable to return fire.

Nightfall
July 23, 2003, 05:34 PM
I can hear this being used as an example now... "Look, Davis had a CCW, and he still wasn't able to fight back! Nobody needs a CCW, they're useless!"

:rolleyes:

NIGHTWATCH
July 23, 2003, 05:45 PM
Bloomberg asked during a press meeting, why do people carry guns? Guns kill people. :fire: Rich idiot.

On a humorous note, many reps ran for cover behind a statue of Thomas Jefferson. No joke, they did. :D LOL!

alan
July 23, 2003, 06:02 PM
Two dead, a City Councilman, and the shooter, "fatally wounded" by a police guard.

O.K., so "stuff happens", but what of the endless gun laws, plus all the "security routines" that so belabor the law abiding people of New York City, and other locales, belabor as well as place in physical danger, since the police cannot protect the individual, nor according to court rulings, are they required to so do, and carry permits aren't issued to Mr., Mrs., or Ms. Everyman, at least not in New York City.

So it comes to pass that an elected official, as some would have it, one of the chosen ones, Mr. Davis, a former police officer and Councilman from Brooklyn gets blown away, IN CITY HALL, by a person he accompanied thereunto. News accounts announce the imposition of additional security measures. Will there also be some brand new, harebrained gun control laws proposed? One can only speculate, however given the evidence of past performances, the writer would be surprised if there weren't, not that they will do the least good, for in case the law makers, the law givers hadn't noticed, it is only the law abiding who obey the law.

Mark Tyson
July 23, 2003, 06:06 PM
From CNN:

Davis headed "LOVE YOURSELF" Stop the Violence, a non-profit organization he founded in 1990. Among other efforts, the group in 1994 convinced Toys 'R' Us to stop selling realistic-looking toy guns.

XLMiguel
July 23, 2003, 06:07 PM
Very sad. And an operative example of why procedures (and laws) that aren't enforced don't do much good.:rolleyes:

Sadder still, was the bleating of all the sheople interviewed after the fact, especially those waiting for the police 'to tell them what to do . . .' :barf:

I H8 NYC:banghead:

seeker_two
July 23, 2003, 09:06 PM
If NYC thought the Sullivan Laws were tough now, BOHICA...:what:

IIRC, I'd heard on Sean Hannity that Davis & his opponent--during the last city council election--were getting funding & support from local "youth support groups" (i.e. street gangs).

Gang-related shooting, perhaps?...:scrutiny:

Maddogkiller
July 24, 2003, 01:16 AM
-Hugs, kisses, and warm and fuzzies for everybody

MarkDido
July 24, 2003, 01:33 AM
Clipped this from an on-line news service....

"The stunning midday shooting — in a building believed to be as secure as any in the city — came just minutes after Davis had escorted Askew around a metal detector. Davis' action was a common practice among elected officials, which Mayor Michael Bloomberg vowed will no longer continue."

I'm certainly sorry that Councilman Davis is dead, but in my opinion, this is a classic example of "...the law applies to thee, but not to me"

Had the procedures that the peons visiting City Hall have to follow, been enforced, Davis would probably be alive today.

Bravo11
July 24, 2003, 09:36 AM
Hey Prof,
I agree, sounds like great shooting by the LEO.
I wonder what the range was. I saw on the news that he fired from the far end of the room up into the balcony.

Bravo11
July 24, 2003, 09:44 AM
---Edited---
My bad, I hit the refresh key and it re-posted.

alan
July 24, 2003, 11:36 AM
MarkDido:

It all boils down to the following, and it isn't limited to NyC at all.

1. Do as we (I) saw, not as we (I) do.
2. While all the animals are equal, some are more equal than others.

WT
July 24, 2003, 12:45 PM
The NY POST reported today that the shooter purchased the gun in North Carolina, thereby bypassing New York City's strict laws. I imagine that something federal will come out of that.

The councilman was carrying his gun in a shoulder holster. Other pictures taken a few years ago show him carrying a Glock 19 in a pancake holster on his belt. Looks like he alternated carry positions.

The councilman was a retired NYPD officer and was allowed a CCW. Prior to NYPD he was a NYC CO and Transit Police Officer. I'm sure he came across some bad actors in his police career. He was also a minister.

Prior to yesterday, most big office buildings in NYC had better security than City Hall - at least the ones I ventured to.

The councilman was ambushed. Never had a chance. Unfortunately, he probably assisted in his own execution bypassing the metal detectors.

alan
July 24, 2003, 03:37 PM
WT:

For whatever it might be worth, if the NY Post was correct, respecting what you saw and posted, there were several violations of federal law, perhaps state law also, attributable to the shooter.

1. Once cannot LEGALLY purchase a handgun outside their state of residence. Therefore, assuming that the pistol was purchased from an FFL, possibly NOT the way the thing went, all sorts of lies were involved, phoney identification, false statements made on the 4473 and so forth, which by itself, raises all manner of questions concerning whether or not all this gun control business is worth bothering with in the first place. Of course, this type of question is NOT universally asked.
2. If the pistol was purchased privately, what does North Carolina law have to say about private sales of handguns, off hand, I don't recall?
3. In any case, it all boils down to the following, as I noted earlier. The law abiding obey the law, criminals don't. Of course, generally speaking, the laabiding do not go abhout shooting others, even political opponents.
4. Really stupid actions can lead to serioius consequences, as the late councilman might have realized, as he died.

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