Home made 22 Hollow points?


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Shooter973
July 23, 2003, 04:56 PM
I have several cartons of round nose High velocity 22 shells and was wondering if cutting a small grove in the nose of the bullet with a knife would enhance expansion in any way? Any body have any experiance doing this and then hunting small game with the modified rounds? Considering how small the Hollows are in some 22 ammo is and that it seems to help, I think this might be a good modification. :confused:

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444
July 23, 2003, 05:03 PM
:D

When I was a kid, I used to use a knife to cut an "X" in the top of .22 bullets. It seemed like it made them more potent, but who really knows. I wasn't shooting animals that were big enough to recover the bullet.
There are commercial tools to do what you want. Such as this one: http://www.gunblast.com/Paco.htm
I bought a similar tool designed by Paco Kelly that uses a file to square off the end of the bullet to make it like a WFN wadcutter type bullet, but I have never shot an animal with one.
I also read an article one time about enlarging the hollow point cavity and injecting vasoline in the hole to increase expansion. I made some of them up, and made a mess at the same time. I never shot an animal with those either.

This all brings back fond memories of my childhood.

Chipperman
July 23, 2003, 05:09 PM
I think it would mostly aid in keyholing.

cordex
July 23, 2003, 05:14 PM
Hmmm ... maybe a little bit ... but I don't see that there is a really good reason to do so and a few reasons not to.
1. .22 hollowpoints are cheap
2. you aren't likely to be terribly consistant in the material you remove
3. .22 hollowpoints are cheap
4. most of the expansion on a .22 seems to be because it uses such soft lead, which means that it'll likely expand whether or not you've cut on it.
5. .22 hollowpoints are cheap

I used to play with modifying bullets too (flint in a slightly enlarged hollowpoint does some nifty things), but I don't think they matter all that much with a .22LR

444
July 23, 2003, 05:34 PM
I really don't see what the cost of a .22 Hollowpoint has to do with trying to improve it's effectiveness. I mean, just because they are cheap doesn't mean we can't try to make them better. But being cheap, experimentation should be the rule of the day.
I also don't see how enlarging the hollow point cavity would make the bullet keyhole.
But, try it, as was mentioned, they are cheap, give it a whirl and get back to us with the results. Cut a few, shoot them on paper, see if it keyholes. Shoot a jackrabbit or something and recover the slug, see if it opened up more than a regular HP. They are cheep, experiment.

When I was doing this, I would have considered it a bonus if they keyholed. We were shooting at stuff that was maybe 10 yards away, but probably closer to five. Hitting a small animal with the side of the bullet would have certainly improved it's effectivness. We got so used to sneaking up on stuff with pellet guns that we continued to do the same thing for years with much more powerful weapons from .22s to rifles, to shotguns. I distinctly remember saying, hey George, you know, we don't have to sneak up to stuff like this anymore, we can shoot from here. And it was kind of a revelation to us both. I remember turning down shots at deer because they were like 50 yards away. I was so used to getting as close as possible, that I considered that to be a sniper shot.

CWL
July 23, 2003, 05:40 PM
I think scoring an 'x' with an x-acto blade would have better -and more consistent- effect.

willyjixx
July 23, 2003, 05:47 PM
i remember pissing off a few rabbits with my crossman pellet rifle. wasnt quite strong enough to break the skin but sure sent em hoppin along. lived in an orange orchard when i was a kid for a bit. maybe i shoulda got closer?


test your theory on ice blocks an take some pics

cordex
July 23, 2003, 05:57 PM
444,
I still say that modifying round nose .22 into hollow points doesn't make sense to me. Making a more effective hollow point wasn't the question, but can be an amusing exercise. If you plan on making a larger/more effective HP, I'd still advise you to start with a commercial hollow point, as it will be easier to center and easier to drill out/modify.

Quantrill
July 23, 2003, 06:38 PM
Since you already have the HV .22s, why not give it a try? I would like to know whether there is any difference in expansion. Quantrill

P95Carry
July 23, 2003, 07:30 PM
This may help .......

A good many years ago I was dealing with a high rabbit population on a farm ...... and over summer took something like 135. I used normal velocity (I think Winchester) HP's and most shots were in 50 yd region.

All hits were accompanied by a solid and resounding ''THWOP'' and the shock effect was obvious. Few if any made it far . usually just rolling over.

I ran out of these rounds but had a box or two of Aguila round nose ...... and had no time to pick up what I wanted. Loaded up with these for first evening ''tour'' ... and first rabbit I nailed got away .. the hit was good I knew .. but no sound of impact. I fear it made it to burrow and died by bleeding out .... I was not pleased at that outcome.

I placed some approx 1" steel scrap in lathe and machined what was in effect a .22 chamber .. including a recessed piece to accept rim. Parted that off and re-chucked ... and tuned down other end and bored a small hole .... about 1/16" IIRC. Heated that end and case hardened so guide hole was harder.

I then set about drilling noses ...... placed a round at a time in dummy ''chamber'' ... and placed on drill table. Thus round was uniformly held .... press was set to drill into bullet nose by fixed amount, thru guide hole ... probably 3/32".

Now lead is crap to drill .. too soft ... but by using slow speed I could finish up with a fairly clean hole each time. It did I guess remove a grain or two of weight but when tested the 50 yd zero was hardly changed.

It sounds tedious I know but once I got to it . it did not take long and I then had 100 rnds to tie me over.

Next day out with this ammo .. sure enough, first victim was hit with a ''THWOP'' ...... instant drop and clean kill.

That is to me the big difference between HP and RN .. if you want clean quick kills ...... do NOT use RN.

That's my 0.02 anyways.

kudu
July 23, 2003, 07:34 PM
'I used to play with modifying bullets too (flint in a slightly enlarged hollowpoint does some nifty things), but I don't think they matter all that much with a .22LR'
says cordex :D

Been there, done that, it does do cool things.:D

firestar
July 23, 2003, 07:34 PM
Is this a poor man's hollow point?

What I used to do was, take a hollow point .22 and hollow it out further with a pocket knife, it seemed to hit with more force but not like a .357mag.:D

Mannlicher
July 23, 2003, 07:42 PM
Here are a couple of options:

http://www.eabco.com/holoptr.html

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Scorpn.htm

and what was the name of that little tool? Hannel? Hanel? it allowed a guy to file down a .22 to a truncated cone, that was supposed to be pretty effective.

444
July 23, 2003, 08:22 PM
Mannlicher, that is the thing that I was talking about, it is: http://www.hanned.com/

Cordex, you are right, I guess I got carried away with my own train of thought, I was thinking the whole time he was talking about using hollowpoints which is what we used to play with by cutting the "X"and all that.

seeker_two
July 23, 2003, 08:53 PM
Mannlicher's put you on the right track. Paco Kelly's tool is GREAT for homemade hollowpoints....:D

Majic
July 23, 2003, 10:52 PM
Some swear by hollowpoints, but I have always just filed a small metplat and took head shots. Works wonders for me on small game.
I also never use high velocity loads. Sub-sonics are much more accurate.

Daedalus
July 23, 2003, 11:13 PM
Carving crosses into your bullets will also improve their lethality vs vampires.

444
July 23, 2003, 11:26 PM
If you had silver bullets with crosses cut in them they would do double duty on werewolves also.

45R
July 24, 2003, 01:17 AM
Too bad they dont penetrate foil hats :)

280PLUS
July 24, 2003, 07:18 AM
i had been considering cutting or filing an off center flat on some .223 as a means of causing it to tumble or at least gyrate off balance in flight

but then i wondered if this can be considered "altered" ammo which i thought was illegal?

anyone??

Majic
July 24, 2003, 07:56 AM
You can cast or swage a bullet into any configuration you want provided you have the equipment. Filing and drilling bullets have been done for ages so I can't see you making your bullets unstable in flight be considered illegal. Just my opinion.

seeker_two
July 24, 2003, 08:49 AM
It's only illegal if you alter it to armor-piercing or poison-carrying bullets.

Filing a .223 off-center won't do anything but mess up your accuracy...:rolleyes:

280PLUS
July 24, 2003, 04:37 PM
but i'd be at close range if i were to use unstable rounds like that

where accuracy is not absolutely critical

oh well, just one of those ideas that goes through my head from time to time,,,:rolleyes:

:D

CWL
July 24, 2003, 04:56 PM
280plus,

Why in the world would you want your rounds to tumble and keyhole before striking the target? Everything to do with bullet technology has been to try and stabilize them for maximum energy transfer on target.

You want tumbling of the .223 after targetstrike. Keyholing the bullet will only bleed-off velocity/energy and lack of penetration. That is, if you manage to hit the target with an unstable round.

willyjixx
July 24, 2003, 05:12 PM
what does a piece of flint in a 22 do??

P95Carry
July 24, 2003, 06:19 PM
what does a piece of flint in a 22 do?? I think the guys are referring to a Zippo flint for instance (cerium oxide IIRC) ... and that ''does things'' on impact!

coldshot03/04
July 24, 2003, 08:27 PM
I use to file my 22lr ammo down flat like a wadcutter. This is for revolvers only.:D

Majic
July 25, 2003, 01:43 AM
CWL,
When the M-16 first went to the field it had a slow twist barrel on it to increase the damaging effect of the diminutive round. The round was reported to have devastating results on human targets. The Army tested it and requested the correct twist rate and that's what we have now. An accurate round, but not the damaging effect of the .30 caliber.

280PLUS
July 25, 2003, 06:58 AM
hence the round entering your knee and exiting your shoulder stories ??

MAKOwner
July 25, 2003, 06:05 PM
CWL,
When the M-16 first went to the field it had a slow twist barrel on it to increase the damaging effect of the diminutive round. The round was reported to have devastating results on human targets. The Army tested it and requested the correct twist rate and that's what we have now. An accurate round, but not the damaging effect of the .30 caliber.

That caused more tumbling after impact since the round wasn't terribly stable, not before (unless it hit brush, etc) I don't think anyone in their right mind would want a bullet that tumbled as soon as it left the barrel unless they wanted to shoot at no more than 5-10 yards, and maybe not even then...

Horsesense
July 26, 2003, 01:04 AM
I have done the drill and or cut an x in .22 and decided that the extra oomph (fragmenting, tumbling etc.) wasn’t worth the loss of consistency.

Never tried the flint in a HP but I have done backwards primers in a 357 HP (that was interesting).

If you really want to push the envelope…. Reload a shotgun shell with split shot sinkers, crimped onto bread twisties or "ring a shell", that’s where you cut a ring all the way around a shell, over the wading, if you cut deep enough, the shot and shell stay together, like a slug, and explode upon impact, kind of like a 12ga glacier round. Another variation is to add a bonding agent to the shot, this is tricky because you don’t want to blow up the gun, but, if you use say a small (read just enough to make the shot sticky) amount of bubble gum mixed with a full load of 7 1/2 shot, you can shoot a fist sized pattern at 70 yards.

WARNING WARNING WARNING if you do anything to alter the design of a round, YOU must take personal responsibility for what ever happens, you just may end up winning a Darwin award!

mainmech48
July 26, 2003, 02:23 PM
Okay, so I'm dating myself here, but when I was a kid there was a not-inconsiderable price difference between .22 HPs and solids. It was also almost impossible to find factory HPs for most pistol rounds.

There was a tool advertised for many years called, IIRC, the "Georg Hollow Pointer". It was sold by mail, and the ones most often seen were for .22s and LSWC .357/.38 Spls.

It looked like the SGB tool in that the body was basically a steel bushing reamed as for a chamber to the particular cartridge with a hole for a drill at the forward end. A special drill bit w/stop was included.

I had one for .22s as a kid, as the $0.25/box extra that HPs cost at the Western Auto was enough at the time to severely limit my purchasing power. I used it on "standard" velocity LRs for plinking, and HVs for small game. It seemed to work just dandy, although I didn't do anything in the way of "scientific" testing, being about eleven at the time. They dropped the bunnies and squirrels emphatically, and that was all I needed to know.

When I got out of the service and started reloading for a .357 revolver, I bought one to make my own "FBI" loads (158 gr. LSWCHP +P .38 Spl.) for the 2" S&W M10 that I carried and a 4" M19 that did everything else. Accuracy was fine, at least as good as I could hold for with anything at the time. There were no signs of either tumbling or keyholing on paper targets.

As HPs for both became more available and affordable, the tools sort of got lost in the shuffle during various moves over the years. I doubt if they're even made anymore.

I still have my SGB tool and use it. Turns SV .22 Match ammo into primo squirrel medicine - quiet, accurate enough for sure headshots at 30 yds, and drops them with more dependability than most HV PHs.

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