Egyptian Helwan 9 mm pistol


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44and45
December 18, 2007, 11:05 PM
I have a Helwan 9 mm pistol, it once belong to a US government agent, now deceased. My son inherited the gun, I acquired it from him as a gift.

The firearm is an exact copy of a Beretta Brigadier which has a single stack magazine of 8 rounds. Gun is quite heavy for a 9 mm, maybe as much as a 1911 Colt .45 acp fully loaded.

My question is: Was the gun actually made in Egypt, never heard of any other pistols being made in that Country.

This Helwan is very well made, except the finish is more of a military type and just another big black gun. It is also very accurate and because of its weight is not recoil sensitive.

Did Beretta make these under contract for Egypt.

I'm guessing this gun is pre-sixties in age.

Jim

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Zundfolge
December 18, 2007, 11:26 PM
According to Max Popenker, the Helwan was made in Egypt (like it says on the slide) under license.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg94-e.htm

nwilliams
December 19, 2007, 12:34 AM
The Helwan is a Beretta M1951

Made under contract in Egypt by Maadi. I've come close to picking one up a few times but never did, its a neat old gun and pretty decent little shooters from what I hear, but of course why wouldn't they be, they are Beretta's after all.

HA, I was just about to go to world guns and get you a link but I just saw that Zund beat me to it! That's a great site god only knows how many times I've visited that website.

Ron James
December 19, 2007, 12:51 AM
But my understanding is that all parts are not interchangable with the Beretta.

44and45
December 19, 2007, 01:10 AM
Thanks for the response on the Helwan.

I'm not much into semi-auto pistols, as revolvers are my thing, so the gun doesn't hold all that much interest to me. But it can handle reloads quite well and is accurate.

I can see why the one time gov. agent used it for a house gun, it's a real sturdy piece to shoot.

However, that slide recoil spring must be off a 58 Buick shock absorber, Man! that sucker is hard to pull back.

Jim

MachIVshooter
December 19, 2007, 01:15 AM
I have one. My personal experience; it uses inferior steel. Very soft. The locking block on mine quickly deformed and caused it to stay locked, which in turn caused the slide to actually bulge out to the sides. I wish I had the $120 I spent on it back. YMMV.

Onmilo
December 19, 2007, 10:00 AM
In case you are interested, Maadi now also produces a copy of the original Beretta M92 fifteen shot double action pistol for issue to Egyptian troops and Police.
It is not imported into the USA but may be in the near future.

I have had a couple of Helman 951 pistols.
The Military issue pistols are better than the commercial versions, better quality control.
Neither version is what I would call "great" and neither is anywhere near the quality of the actual Italian production guns.

44and45
December 19, 2007, 10:44 AM
I would judge my Helwan to be the military version, its really not soft metal anywhere on it.

That recoil spring on the slide sure the hell isn't soft. Besides, the finish is not commercial, its GI.

Probably why the original Fed owner bought it.

Jim

novaDAK
December 19, 2007, 12:44 PM
In case you are interested, Maadi now also produces a copy of the original Beretta M92 fifteen shot double action pistol for issue to Egyptian troops and Police.
It is not imported into the USA but may be in the near future.
The Helwan 92 used to be imported by Century Arms International but it has been off their website since at least 2004. I know of no current importers, and I've never seen any on gunbroker or the like sites either, so I would consider them very rare in the USA.

jonnyc
December 19, 2007, 06:12 PM
I used some captured Helwans in Israel. They were commonly battered into uselessness with Uzi ammo.

JHansenAK47
December 19, 2007, 07:17 PM
The Iraqis made the Helwan all the way up to 2003. It was made in country and was the standard issue sidearm under Saddam.

44and45
December 19, 2007, 07:29 PM
I used some captured Helwans in Israel. They were commonly battered into uselessness with Uzi ammo.

Was the Uzi ammo for machinegun or pistol, what sort of 9 mm pistol do the Israelies use as a side arm? And is it standard industry ammo that can be used in Berretas or Sigs.

That is interesting that Saddam used a copy of a copy as his side arm. Wonder if any of our troops have captured some and shot them.

Jim

44and45
December 19, 2007, 07:31 PM
I used some captured Helwans in Israel. They were commonly battered into uselessness with Uzi ammo.
==========================================================================

Was the Uzi ammo for machine-gun or pistol, what sort of 9 mm pistol do the Israelis use as a side arm? And is it standard industry ammo that can be used in Berettas or Sigs.

That is interesting that Saddam used a copy of a copy as his side arm. Wonder if any of our troops have captured some and shot them.

Jim

jonnyc
December 19, 2007, 08:51 PM
We used whatever 9mm we could find, but pistol ammo was very scarce, so we usually used Uzi (SMG) ammo. My Radom ate it up, and I never saw any of the various Hi-Powers, Beretta 92s, TZs, or Glocks have any problems with it. Only the Helwans would jam/break/die.

Litlman
December 19, 2007, 09:56 PM
I picked one up NIB in 1990, $150, it is crude but it runs, couple stove pipes if I remember. I have not shot it in a long time. It is accurate though.

44and45
December 19, 2007, 10:42 PM
It's getting hard to drag myself out to the range to shoot my guns. But I do remember shooting the Helwan 3 or 4 years ago with various reloaded ammo of which I personally reloaded.

It all shot well and accurate, and without any failures.

The Helwan may be a POC to some, but it held up that one time I shot it.

Decided to break it down after shooting and clean it thourghly, that was a mistake as it was a bear to figure out how to put it all back together again.

Had to open the booklet on it to get some pointers on re-assembly. Getting that barrel in proper position to fit some fitting that held it to the frame was awsome...or was it getting it fitted to fit the slide. Anyway, I'm not taking it apart again. :D

I remember reading somewhere that its a nooo no to shoot SMG ammo in a semi-auto pistol of any make...even if the gun can handle it without falling apart.

Its the pressure curve that is horrindous in a handgun. Sort of like putting too much powder in the brass while reloading it...a double charge is sometimes all it takes.


Jim

Ammo First
December 21, 2007, 01:59 AM
A friend and I picked up a couple of these about 10 years ago. We had very little experience with firearms at the time. Our shared opinion was that it lacked quality. It makes a High point look like a Custom Race gun.

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