1911 Full Length Guide Rods?


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GaryK
December 19, 2007, 03:34 PM
Do full guide rods improve accuracy in guns with loose slide to frame fit? I have never liked them much and have removed them from a couple of guns because it made takedown a chore. These guns had tight frame to slide fit though and I didn't notice any difference in accuracy. I recently put a full length guide rod in a loose gun and noticed that it no longer rattles. I have not shot it yet and was wondering if I will see tighter groups.

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rcmodel
December 19, 2007, 03:46 PM
They have no effect on accuracy at all, and are not intended to have any.

They are considered useful in match guns to reduce friction with light target loads that might suffer from spring binding.

In a carry gun, or any other 1911 that is going to see a steady diet of full-power ammo, they serve no useful purpose except in advertising, and after-market sales, or to add muzzle weight, if you like that.

I think they are a PITA!

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rcmodel

Geno
December 19, 2007, 04:02 PM
I read a fantastic piece about Kimber's new SIS, and why they did not go a FLGR...if injured in duty (gun fight) and left with only one good hand, the officers could use any edge of any hard surface to manipulate the slide in the event of a failure.

Awesome point. With a FLGR, that is not possible.

Source: Fasano, J., (Jan, 2008) Tactical Weapons.

Doc2005

rcmodel
December 19, 2007, 04:32 PM
Awesome point. With a FLGR, that is not possible.
Zactly!

There is a steady swing away from them in a lot of better guns coming along now.

The SIG for one, some of the Kimbers, and several others I have noticed lately.

Makes field stripping a whole lot easier also if you don't need an Allen Wrench like some of them require.

IMHO: Old John B. had it pretty much right when he designed the short Guide & Plug.

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Spartacus451
December 19, 2007, 04:44 PM
Bruce Gray said that in his testing a full length guide rod extended spring life.

jh9x18ky
December 19, 2007, 04:53 PM
I have stopped using FLGR's in my 1911's.... Had to try them, one of those things you must give a try. No increase in accuracy, no real reason to spend the extra money on them that I can find. And if you really stop and think about it, JM Browning didnt use one in his original design, and it has worked for well for about 96 yrs now.... So I am comfortable with the factory setup.

rcmodel
December 19, 2007, 04:57 PM
Bruce Gray said that in his testing a full length guide rod extended spring life.
Could be, but how many thousand rounds can you get on a standard gun without one?

I was shooting GI .45 training unit guns in Basic in 1964 that probably still had WWII/Korea era springs in them!

Anyway, springs are way cheap compared to all the hassles of a FLGR.

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rcmodel

jmorris
December 19, 2007, 11:56 PM
The only FLGR that might provide better accuracy would be the Wilson “group gripper”. However, if the pistol is set up correctly, again you would have no difference. I have a few 1911’s with standard guide rods but most have the FLGR they cycle smoother, and have less muzzle rise (much less with the mercury filled FLGR). J. M. Browning designed many revolutionary machines as did Henry Ford, thankfully evolution from Mr. Fords ideas have met less resistance than those from the 1911 crowd.

Geno
December 20, 2007, 12:01 AM
None of my current 1911s has a FLGR.

Doc2005

Jim K
December 20, 2007, 12:10 AM
I have long contended that the only purpose of an FLGR is aid in extraction - the extraction of money from the buyer's pocket and placing of it in the seller's pocket.

That aside, they have created another problem. When a pistol with the original guide rod was dropped on the muzzle, the slide and barrel movement absorbed the shock and the firing pin did not have enough momentum to fire the gun. But with a FLGR, that is not the case and the firing pin will sometimes come forward with enough momentum to fire. The result was one (1) shooting and the whole plethora of firing pin locks and blocks and super light firing pins that we have now.

Jim

1911 guy
December 20, 2007, 09:27 AM
They serve no usefull purpose.
Quote:
Bruce Gray said that in his testing a full length guide rod extended spring life.

Yep. And my extensive testing has concluded that the moon is indeed made of green cheese.

45auto
December 20, 2007, 10:29 AM
if injured in duty (gun fight) and left with only one good hand, the officers could use any edge of any hard surface to manipulate the slide in the event of a failure.


My "understanding" is the sight dimensions for the SIS now allow for that function, as do a lot of "newer", more "tactical" sights in the 1911.

The FLGR model if dropped, might also prevent a round from being ejected or jammed in the gun...when you pick it up and need it. Same if you bump it against a wall, door etc.

Unless I'm mistaken the vast majority of guns being carried now, dropped, fired, used, all have FLGR's. Is that correct?

Edit: That may sound like I'm making a "case" for FLGRs...not really. I have both styles in different 1911s. I do see as many pro's as con's.

10X
December 20, 2007, 11:01 AM
A FLGR offers not advantage in accuracy. Accuracy is determined by the quality of the barrel, front and rear lock up of the barrel with the slide and of course quality of ammo. At most the FLGR may offer a bit more smoothness, but that is questionable. It is just another fad that is now starting to go out of favor.

Henry Bowman
December 20, 2007, 12:22 PM
I read a fantastic piece about Kimber's new SIS, and why they did not go a FLGR...if injured in duty (gun fight) and left with only one good hand, the officers could use any edge of any hard surface to manipulate the slide in the event of a failure.Seriously, isn't that why you notch the front edge of the rear sight (if it's a smooth design)? So that you can use the sight to rack the slide one-handed on the edge of a table or even on your belt.

dwave
December 20, 2007, 12:31 PM
I put a two piece FLGR in my Colt Delta Elite to replace the cheap plastic guide rod in it. It works well and no special tools to take the gun apart. As far as function, I don't see much difference.

DogBonz
December 20, 2007, 12:38 PM
They are considered useful in match guns to reduce friction with light target loads that might suffer from spring binding.

I have always heard that they reduce "spring binding" which I always believed to be crap anyway. I feel that they serve no useful purpose, and in fact, I have experienced a few instances personally where they caused malfunctions.

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