Where do my fingerprints go?


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BigBlock
December 19, 2007, 08:19 PM
Today I bought a big shiny Blackhawk, the first time I've ever bought a new gun at a gun store. I'm just curious...where do the fingerprints they took end up? Do they go into the AFIS system? Or just some gun registry?


Sheesh...now I'm gonna have to start wearing gloves before I shoot someone. :banghead: :neener:

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22-rimfire
December 19, 2007, 08:23 PM
Here in Tennessee, the fingerprints remain with the FFL dealer. We get finger printed with every firearm purchase through a licensed dealer. Get a carry permit and you are finger printed for all fingers as opposed to just thumbs with a firearm purchase. The digital carry permit prints are saved by the state.

Hoppy590
December 19, 2007, 08:25 PM
in MA the fingerprints are for confirming your identity. they dont go anywhere when you buy a gun

when you get the LTC/FID i imagine they go to some database

Joey_the_Wolf
December 19, 2007, 08:35 PM
Wait wait wait.... Fingerprints for purchase of a firearm? Since when?? (I'm from Florida and I have never heard of that being done around here). I thought the only time you got fingerprinted was when you got a CCW. Kinda scary to think about actually...

MachIVshooter
December 19, 2007, 08:49 PM
Wow, that sucks. More and more, it seems like there are only a handful of states as free as CO. Other than the post-columbine GSLH law (all firearms transaction at gunshows require NICS BG check), we are only subject to federal regulations. No printing (except CCW), no waiting periods, no limit on purchases, no registration or FOID cards, NFA stuff OK*, open carry statewide*, no regulation on handguns in automobiles, no safe storage BS, no restrictions on firearm types or magazine capacities*, etc. I feel very fortunate to live here.

* Denver makes their own rules, desptie being in direct conflict with state law.

BigBlock
December 19, 2007, 08:52 PM
Hmmm....that's interesting, I thought the prints were a federal thing. Other than that it's no big deal to get a firearm here, just a few minutes for the BG check and you're out the door.

average_shooter
December 19, 2007, 08:52 PM
Huh?!? Fingerprinted with each firearms purchase? :confused:

And what does that serve...?

bfhcards
December 19, 2007, 09:01 PM
I bought all three of my guns in PA they didnt take my fingerprints. I didnt realize they did that some places.

RoadkingLarry
December 19, 2007, 09:05 PM
:what:
Wow! I'm spoiled here in Oklahoma, Prints to buy???:eek:
First I've ever heard I think I'd have to check and find out that it is actually state law and not some "proactive" BS.

Kimber1911_06238
December 19, 2007, 09:06 PM
here in CT you only have to get fingerprinted for a background check when you get your carry permit. no fingerprints ever after that.

Pigspitter
December 19, 2007, 09:10 PM
on the tips of your fingers?

oklahoma caveman
December 19, 2007, 10:11 PM
Wow! I'm spoiled here in Oklahoma, Prints to buy???


aint that the truth. i was upset bout the fingerprinting thing to get my drivers liscense renewed but man, every gun you buy they fingerprint you? thats insane

Ed Ames
December 19, 2007, 10:18 PM
CA wants a thumb print on the 4473. As far as I know it is not scanned and is there "if they need it". It sucks but is a minor consideration compared to the fees and waiting period. The waiting period is total BS because CA has a computerized system that can give a yes/no in 20 seconds.

In Texas you fill out the form, wait 20 minutes while the store make a phone call, and walk out with the gun. Much nicer.

Scanr
December 19, 2007, 10:24 PM
Wow, you should move to a more gun friendly state like Nevada. No fingerprints needed here.

Paulus
December 20, 2007, 12:09 AM
When I submitted my fingerprints for a "License to Carry" here in Indiana, I was wondering the same thing.

Did they just check them against some database or permanently keep them in some database?

First time I've ever been fingerprinted in my life.

Kinda wondering...

Paulus

Owen Sparks
December 20, 2007, 12:19 AM
Don't they all end up in the FBI's database eventually?

Educated Hillbilly
December 20, 2007, 08:35 AM
Gotta love Kentucky. Don't have to be printed to buy, and no prints for CCW!

Grayrock
December 20, 2007, 08:57 AM
The OP's question was what happens to those fingerprints? The fact that he was fingerprinted and the justification for that is moot. It is a done deal. Now he wants to know where his fingerprints are going. Can anyone answer that?

MICHAEL T
December 20, 2007, 09:10 AM
I glad I live in a free state No prints to get a CCW or to buy a gun. People need to get that changed
Long live Ky were I can carry all sorts of weapons with out printing.

Jeff White
December 20, 2007, 09:44 AM
Here in Tennessee, the fingerprints remain with the FFL dealer. We get finger printed with every firearm purchase through a licensed dealer.

And some people on here have the nerve to look down their nose at Illinois because of FOID cards....:scrutiny: I'd much rather give the state $1.00 a year for a FOID card then deal with the mess and hassle of being fingerprinted every time I bought a firearm.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I doubt that that many gun shop employees can fingerprint customers well enough so the system wouldn't reject them if they ever needed to be used for identification. What's next for you folks in the free states, AFIS terminals in every gunshop? :neener:

Jeff - who doesn't like the Illinois FOID cards but is quite amused to find out that people who put up with much more degrading hurdles to jump over to buy a firearm actually have the nerve to tell all of us to move out of Illinois. I suggest every member in Tennessee and Oregon....MOVE TO A FREE STATE :neener:

jackstinson
December 20, 2007, 09:45 AM
On most everything you touch. Sand them off or wear gloves.
Jack

El Tejon
December 20, 2007, 09:51 AM
The fingerprint cards are kept in Jeff White's basement, along with the photos for our Form 4s.:neener:

GeezerwithGuns
December 20, 2007, 10:05 AM
I was fingerprinted for my CCW "background" check - a requirement in Colorado. What I found interesting was the fact that different Federal & State databases, obviously do not speak to each other. In my line of work, I've been fingerprinted numerous times, and have had background checks run that are many times more stringent than for CCW.

That my CCW took the "normal" amount of time pretty much confirmed that the various Federal agencies do not communicate (either at all, or not very well).:confused:

RPCVYemen
December 20, 2007, 10:32 AM
Don't they all end up in the FBI's database eventually?

That is my assumption - regardless of all of the "privacy protection".

My working assumption is that once you give your fingerprints to any government agency, they end up in the AFIS.

I had to apply for a security clearance 25 years ago - as a Peace Corps Volunteer! We needed to know the embassy evacuation plans, so we needed come level of security clearance. That's all in addition to a background check.

in MA the fingerprints are for confirming your identity. they dont go anywhere when you buy a gun

Here in Tennessee, the fingerprints remain with the FFL dealer.

My assumption is that those fingerprints will be stored forever somewhere. I know the laws specify all kinds of protection, but once an electronic document has been created, I assume its immortal. Who's going to bust the FBI for keeping fingerprint records that should have been destroyed.

Oh my gosh, now I am starting to sound like one of the black helicopter guys! :)

Mike

Mike

Jeff White
December 20, 2007, 10:57 AM
El Tejon said;
The fingerprint cards are kept in Jeff White's basement, along with the photos for our Form 4s.:neener:

Dang it, you let the secret out :banghead:. Now we'll have to move them. I'll be enroute to Lafayette with them and you can keep them in your office until another location is found for them. Maybe your secretary can file the last few document boxes I received. ;)

Jeff

Walkalong
December 20, 2007, 12:05 PM
Huh?!? Fingerprinted with each firearms purchase?
Not in Al.

scout26
December 20, 2007, 12:49 PM
Jeff also stores and has access to your permanent record from grade school.

Jeff White
December 20, 2007, 12:59 PM
Scout26 said;
Jeff also stores and has access to your permanent record from grade school.

Not any longer, I sold that NSA contract to General Mills who is using that information to develop breakfast cereal. I understand that General Mills is negotiating to sell them to Google so they can develop a way to use the data for advertising.....I needed the space in the garage to build an HO railroad for my grandson to play with when he comes to visit. :D

Jeff

Kruzr
December 20, 2007, 01:07 PM
CA wants a thumb print on the 4473. As far as I know it is not scanned and is there "if they need it". It sucks but is a minor consideration compared to the fees and waiting period. The waiting period is total BS because CA has a computerized system that can give a yes/no in 20 seconds.

No, California requires a thumbprint on the California DROS sheet which stays with the FFL. The 4473 is a Federal Form and ATF audit agents don't like to see extraneous things on those forms. Some are very picky about the color of ink used.

The California computerized Dealer Record of Sale System does not give an immediate answer. Denials are usually faxed to the dealer within the first three days of the waiting period.

I'm sure they could computerize the whole thing to give an immediate answer but that would make it easier to buy a gun and that wouldn't be in the California spriit of putting as many obstacles as they can in the way of that purchase.

Grizfire
December 20, 2007, 01:09 PM
Why don't you just ask the dealer what happens to them, then report back to us.

Call me paranoid, but what happens when your gun is stolen and used in a crime? There will be a link between the gun and your identity? I don't like that at all.

Franco2shoot
December 20, 2007, 01:13 PM
What happens if your wear tight laytex gloves... I mean do you have to provide "Good" prints? Who says that they are good? I'm against the Government knowing I purchased a gun. I don't mind them doing an Insta check like they do here in Virginia, so long as the data is destroyed after 30 days, and even that is scary as I really can't tell if they are tossing the data.
KKKKFL

Ed Ames
December 20, 2007, 04:17 PM
California requires a thumbprint on the
California DROS sheet which stays with the FFL. The
4473 is a Federal Form and ATF audit agents don't
like to see extraneous things on those forms.

Ahh... good correction. It's been a while since I purchased a gun in CA but there was a thumbprint involved.

Dealers put extra stuff on the 4473 all the time. I know of a VERY large chain that tells everyone to write their phone number at the top of the form (not on any field) and I've seen other shops draw boxes on the back of the form and tell you to add additional info.



The California computerized Dealer Record of Sale
System does not give an immediate answer. Denials are
usually faxed to the dealer within the first three
days of the waiting period.


Dunno. I've seen people go in to buy a gun and get stopped, seemingly by the computer, right away. Didn't seem like three days but I do sometimes lose track of time in gun stores. :)

I'm sure they could computerize the whole thing to
give an immediate answer but that would make it
easier to buy a gun and that wouldn't be in the
California spriit of putting as many obstacles as
they can in the way of that purchase.

Knowing california they'd computerize it in a way that made it harder, not easier, to deal with.

Kruzr
December 20, 2007, 04:30 PM
Dunno. I've seen people go in to buy a gun and get stopped, seemingly by the computer, right away. Didn't seem like three days but I do sometimes lose track of time in gun stores.
The only time I've seen that happen (I did DROS's for about 4 years) was if the information wasn't completely filled out on the form or something wasn't in the proper format for the program to accept it. In one case, the computer wouldn't accept a barrel length with a decimal in it. It had to be in fractions from the drop down list. I had to call DOJ on that one since I kept getting a rejection.

In any event, the fingerprint stays with the dealer. We kept our DROS forms in 3 ring binders and were kept in the bottom of one of the safes.

another okie
December 20, 2007, 04:40 PM
I think you should assume that all fingerprints taken will be added to the national data base, if not immediately, then someday.

Obviously the actual answer as far as short term action will vary from state to state, if the requirement is state law, so it's hard to answer the original question on a national basis.

Mt Shooter
December 20, 2007, 08:10 PM
no printing here either. See quote!

Elza
December 20, 2007, 08:42 PM
Fingerprints to purchase? Yet another reason that I’m glad to live in Texas.

Geno
December 22, 2007, 05:17 PM
I suspect that in short order, they will go here, to the FBI's mega-biometric database:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22366208/

Doc2005

XR400R
December 30, 2007, 01:23 PM
I haven't applied for my CCW yet in Alabama.

Can anyone advise whether or not AL (specifically Madison Co.) requires fingerprinting for CCW?

Thanks.

MarkDido
December 30, 2007, 07:02 PM
Wait wait wait.... Fingerprints for purchase of a firearm? Since when?? (I'm from Florida and I have never heard of that being done around here). I thought the only time you got fingerprinted was when you got a CCW. Kinda scary to think about actually...


Gotta love Florida.....

When I first moved down here from Virginia Beach, I called the local S. O. (who I now work for) and asked them how I went about registering a gun.

The nice deputy who ansered the phone said... "...whut? Register a gun? Why the hail would you wanna do that!?"

Like I said, gotta love Florida!

Autolycus
December 31, 2007, 03:36 AM
I agree with Jeff White in that Illinois is a free state. You all should move here. ;)

What do they do if someone with no hands wishes to purchase a firearm?

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