tactical knife back up to your gun


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TokyoShapiro
December 20, 2007, 11:39 PM
Anyone like the new 5.11 tactical knives?

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browningguy
December 21, 2007, 12:31 PM
What exactly does a "tactical 5.11" knife do that my folding Swiss Army won't do?

Mine even has a toothpick!

Zundfolge
December 21, 2007, 12:51 PM
Fighting effectively with a knife requires years of training ... my "tactical" knife (http://www.ultout.com/images/39720.jpg)is used for opening boxes, cleaning under fingernails and cutting string.

If I fell I need a backup for my sidearm, I'll just pack a second gun :p


As for the 5.11 knives, they look decent ... a little pricey (I suspect you're paying extra for the 5.11 on the blade).

My CRKT is probably just as good a knife at 1/3 the price.

hso
December 21, 2007, 02:35 PM
Look like relabeled Benchmades.

MarshallDodge
December 21, 2007, 03:11 PM
The styling is nice but are definitely not a Benchmade.

I'm with Zundfolge, for an imported knife I agree that they are pricey although maybe they are just showing MSRP on the website. CRKT is imported and are a much better value.

For the $90-120 price range you can get a Benchmade that is made here in the USA.

Rexster
December 21, 2007, 08:12 PM
If they are listing the Tarani Karambits yet, well, I like those; mine are the earlier version made by Blade-tech and sold under the Karambit.com name. I have heard good things about the ones to be sold under the 5.11 name.

mgregg85
December 21, 2007, 09:15 PM
I sometimes carry safe maker I as a "back up".

mercop
December 23, 2007, 04:36 PM
Why would you want a folding Kerambit you have to open with two hands?

Yes a pistol should be backed up with a blade, but I think you can do much better than a 5.11.

Jayb
December 23, 2007, 04:46 PM
I back up my handgun with my tactical ball bat, that I have to use my tactical flashlight to find, cause it's in the back of my tactical truck. I use tactical bullets, and if I run out, I can use the tactical rocks in my driveway. The driveway is usually safe, 'cause my tactical dog keeps things under control out there.

sorry :banghead:

DAVIDSDIVAD
December 23, 2007, 06:31 PM
Hahaha, JayB, you gave me a good laugh, man.

I get tired of that word being thrown around all the time too, so I can relate.

Jayb
December 23, 2007, 06:34 PM
I'm glad I didn't pi$$ anyone off with that, because I certainly didn't mean to. But geeze, it seems like regardless of the item being discussed, it simply must be tactical if it's to be quality stuff. :rolleyes:

for_hire
December 23, 2007, 06:39 PM
i love spydercos and benchmades...

cant go wrong with either one..

but if you want a tacticool knife...go for a microtech halo, or something that cost you your tactical a##!

mercop
December 23, 2007, 06:52 PM
for hire, why a mircotech halo?

wheelgunslinger
December 23, 2007, 09:52 PM
I use a 10.99 half-serrated stainless folder I got at a parts store. Yes, a crappy cheap knife.
It stays clipped to my pocket and when I need to cut something it does fine.

I see value in more expensive knives, but can't bring myself to drop the coin on them.

JTW Jr.
December 23, 2007, 09:58 PM
Why would you want a folding Kerambit you have to open with two hands?
For those than can't carry a fixed and like the K-bit , I think it is a well made knife. Lock up was far superior to " other " folding K-bits I have tried. Though I wish I bought a Cutter Knife and Tool K-bit years ago.
The 5.11's K-bit is the same as the Tarani Master model by Blade Tech.

However a K-bit takes quite a bit of training to use as a defense blade , mine is strictly to open cans of Copenhagen , desheath Cat5 , Cat6 and Coax as well as other mundane chores.

I dont carry a blade as a backup to my 1911 though , I carry a 2nd 1911 ;)

mercop
December 23, 2007, 11:12 PM
If you really want something to be tactical paint it black, add velcro and a fastex buckle.

Roswell 1847
December 24, 2007, 03:13 AM
Long ago I read an article written by a police officer in which he described finding a suicide hanging by the neck.
He tried to hold the guy up to take the weight off his neck, but had no knife handy. He had his regular belt with handgun and ammo but hadn't ever thought about carrying a knife much less a knife that was easy to reach and open with one hand.
The suicide turned out to have been past helping anyway but the officer determined that should any such event happen in the future he would be better prepared.

Knives can be life savers without being used as weapons.

JTW Jr.
December 24, 2007, 01:45 PM
well said... the blades I carry are for utility use.

.44walkersabot
December 24, 2007, 02:55 PM
You have that a little backwards don't you pard'ner?
I would think that when he haul's out his 9mm or his .38 Special, you would need a backup for your tactical knife, not the other way around...Okay...

Fosbery
December 24, 2007, 09:27 PM
Look like relabeled Benchmades.

I think you mean Emersons ;)

JTW Jr.
December 25, 2007, 01:07 AM
while I liked the Emerson , the Bladetech , now 5.11 feels much more solid.

Now if you take a Emerson and make it a frame lock or added a solid titanium backspacer to include the ring area...like this one I modded years ago...
http://members.cox.net/spannerboy1/Dscf0003.jpg

Gordon
December 25, 2007, 01:51 AM
here;





















Merry Christmas!

ArfinGreebly
December 25, 2007, 02:02 AM
You know, I carry at least three knives with me all the time. There are all manner of tactical boxes and stuff that I have to open. Tonight I had to open a tactical CD (Trans-Siberian Orchestra), and that required a spring-assisted folder than I keep handy for unexpected CD encounters.

I opened my mail with my little two-inch tactical Gerber Silver Knight.

And yesterday, I actually thought about opening something with my Leatherman Wave. Thinking about it is worth points, no?

A little more seriously . . .

Given the state of my strong hand, and the arthritis that's beginning to mess with my grip, I do believe that if I actually believed I was going to encounter some kind of "tactical" situation that might require a knife, I'd want something with a fatter grip than what I carry.

In fact, I don't think I'd favor a folder much at all.

I think I'd look to one of my Finnish or Swedish knives, maybe in a three or four inch blade. Nothing fancy, but the grip would have to be something I could hang onto even under dire conditions.

Don't do me no good to have a wonder knife if I can't hang onto it.

I've had to re-evaluate the "tactical-ness" of my cutlery since my grip strength began to be a problem. I have a Gerber Guardian (original version) that I probably wouldn't be able to use with my hand as it is now, and that's sad, 'cuz it's a great knife.

I have a cheap old Mora "Clipper" knife (Frosts) that stays firm in my hand in both major grip positions. If I "had" to carry a tac knife backup for my CCW, it would be something like that.

Just my thoughts.

Roswell 1847
December 25, 2007, 04:51 AM
Heres my Tactical Vampire stabbing wooden knife,with an ancient African god for the handle.
http://hillbilly.diinoweb.com/files/wooden%20knife.jpg
http://hillbilly.diinoweb.com/files/wooden%20knife%202.jpg

Makes a dandy letter opener too but it should put the undead in their place should the need arise.
Don't know what kind of wood it is but it came from Kenya and is as dense and hard as Lignum Vitae.

Boats
December 25, 2007, 07:58 AM
I like anti-tacticals myself. Got one of these last night before I assembled some of the kids' toys.

http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/buck/images/419.jpg

Buck 419, the Kalinga Pro Folder.

I also respectfully disagree with Zundfolge about it "taking years" to master knife fighting. "Knife fighting" is a choreographical joke usually displayed on a non resisting volunteer in a slow motion fashion to part students from their money.

Back when I gave a damn about form over results, I used to spar with FMA and silat practitioners in "duels" with dry erase markers. Usually both parties were deemed to be gravely wounded, and no amount of theory or practice prevented the typical blood bath of ink, usually incurred in a fight gone to the ground. One could readily find novices who'd tag long time practitioners "lethally." I was left with the definite impression that training to knife fight is a waste of time and money.

One could master the basics of the "Folsom Rush" in the time it takes to read this post. Next to no one on the street is going to be a knife fighting "expert," and this time of year in my neck of the woods, a Karambit is next to useless against the parkas and leather coats almost everyone wears.

Seems to me that the major obstacle to being effective with a knife is summoning up the will to repeatedly stab someone in a timely manner.

Experienced knife wielders are extremely dangerous folks. That condition doesn't correlate well with being formally trained to "knife fight."

spiroxlii
December 25, 2007, 08:53 PM
I bought a Gerber "tactical folder" before my trip to norther Thailand last year. I was going to be in some pretty remote areas near the border with Burma/Myanmar.

Know what I used it for while I was there? I helped two American doctors who were providing free tactical medical care to some of the remote hill tribe villages by splitting pills for tactical childrens' prescriptions.

Since I returned to the USA, all manner of tactical zip ties and tactical packing tape have met their demise upon the edge of my folder's blade. I also used it once to trim some tactical underlayment when I was putting down a tactical laminate floor and my utility knife blade broke.

I really liked that knife, actually. It was easy and smooth to open with just one hand. I lost it at some point, and I do plan to replace it with a similar knife. In the mean time, I'm using a Swiss Army Knife for pretty much all my cutting needs. A real one by Victorinox, not a Chinese copy.

Now all of my cutting tasks have gone from tactical to neutral. I used it this morning to cut the neutral tape off some very frustrating but neutral Christmas presents.

TimboKhan
December 25, 2007, 09:37 PM
Seems to me that the major obstacle to being effective with a knife is summoning up the will to repeatedly stab someone in a timely manner.


I guess I would add to this that you need to realize that your likely to see lots and lots of your own blood as well, so it might take some time to get used to that idea. Then again, what do I know? I have zero practical knowledge of knife fighting with the possible exception that I have watched the movie "The Warriors" several times...

As far as tactical blades go, I can do without them. For 99.9% of my daily or expected knife chores, a good Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw, Buck, CRKT, Gerber will do just fine. I can find absolutely no justification to spend more than $100.00 on any knife, with the possible exception of a collectors item. Frankly, I think $100.00 can buy a heck of a good knife in todays market, so I don't think it's a limitation.

spiroxlii
December 25, 2007, 11:52 PM
I have to agree with TimboKhan on the pricing issue.

My Gerber had a strong lock, easy operation, and a blade that held an edge better than it needed to for anything I was going to use the knife for. It only cost me $20, and to be honest, it was probably more knife than I needed as a daily use/utility knife.

Then again, it's probably better to be slightly (not ridiculously) "overknifed" than it is to be "underknifed" to any extent, whether the application is "tactical" or "practical."

Green Lantern
December 26, 2007, 10:10 AM
DO keep in mind that, even with a CCW, carrying a fixed-blade knife and/or an "automatic" knife may be illegal where you live (like in NC)...

What exactly does a "tactical 5.11" knife do that my folding Swiss Army won't do?

I don't recall from seeing them in a catalog, but I'm guessing lock the blade. After a few "close shaves" (LITERALLY), I figured that a blade that locks is safer to use for most cutting tasks than one that don't. 'Course, you can get that in any other 'non tactical' linerlocks or lockbacks as well...;)

Yes a pistol should be backed up with a blade, but I think you can do much better than a 5.11.

Hmmmm...I ALWAYS have a knife on me, even when I don't carry - but it's a TOOL, not a WEAPON.

(As I told a co-worker that asked me about it one day, as I was using it to open a box, as I do multiple times each day. I 'splained to her that one needs a LOT of training to make a knife a practical weapon, and I just don't have it. And I refuse to carry the "issue" box openers, as a razor blade in a metal sleeve strikes me as too dangerous - to the USER - to keep in my pockets! ;) )

Since a knife is viewed as a lethal weapon, if you're gonna back up one lethal weapon (gun) with another one, why not just carry ANOTHER gun?

IMO, a gun is best backed up with at LEAST a less-lethal alternative like OC. That way, if you catch yourself in a "situation" that does NOT require deadly force, and you CAN'T easily retreat, you at least have an option besides empty hands.

My EDC knife is a CRKT M-16 with a partially serrated blade. If I HAD to (particularly when unable to CCW), I would use it as a weapon, but I have no delusions that I am a "knife fighter."

Pax Jordana
December 26, 2007, 12:50 PM
The OP's question was, does anyone LIKE them?

So I say, sure. But it's my personal philosophy that anything, or anyone, is OK in my book until they give me reason to suspect or dislike them.


And for $115 I could have two or three kershaws :rolleyes:












(Or two cold steel knives, which we all know are much more tactical)

Chipperman
December 26, 2007, 01:09 PM
Experienced knife wielders are extremely dangerous folks. That condition doesn't correlate well with being formally trained to "knife fight."

A lot of the knife fighters who give demos about giving five cuts in less than a second ignore the fact that they would also be getting cut up in a real fight. In real life, both fighters often come away looking like jigsaw puzzles.

DAVIDSDIVAD
December 26, 2007, 04:09 PM
(Or two cold steel knives, which we all know are much more tactical)


Especially if you can get Lynn Thompson to follow you around and make a mean face. :D

Browning
December 26, 2007, 04:25 PM
This one's the knife that I just got yesterday as a present and it's the one I'll carry from now on.

http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/almar/images/SERE-2000.jpg
Al Mar Sere

http://www.almarknives.com/catalog_2005.shtm#SERE2000
The ad above is incorrect and that isn't the real price though, for the most part they're about $125 to $145 (instead of an MSRP of $229 according to Al Mar's sales ad that I listed). If they were that much, I probably wouldn't have ended up with one.

Before the AL Mar Sere I usually carried a CRKT M16-13Z spear point folding knife with a 1/3 serrated blade that I bought at a gun show for a little over $20 (the dealer also threw in a can of $5 pepper spray along with it, not bad huh?). I like it and it's worked real well for me, but the damn clip keeps coming loose no matter how much I tighten it down and it's slipped out of my front pocket twice, so I had to switch it to a rear pocket so that it wouldn't keep hitting the ground when I went to sit down.

Most of what I use a knife for is cutting boxes, twine, rope, tape, cloth, plastic packaging, oxygen tubing, seat belts, backboard straps, a little whittling here and there etc etc. If it came down to it I could use the knife as a weapon if I didn't have anything else, but I'm more likely to be cutting rope or trying to get into a cardboard box than I am to try and pull a Jim Bowie imitation of hacking his way through a bunch of attackers at the Alamo as they come at me with fixed bayonets.

DAVIDSDIVAD
December 26, 2007, 07:28 PM
get some loc-tite, dude.


Those al-mar knives are really classy, though.

I've always wanted one but never gotten around to it.

mercop
December 27, 2007, 12:15 AM
IMHO the Al MAR SERE 2000 is the closest you can get to a custom in the way of a production knife. I carry mine every day.

As far as trained knife fighters, they are like gun fighters. I have responded to a few shootings and stabbings. What did they all have in common? None of the attackers had any knife or gun training. But they did not let that stop them. What did else did they have in common? The were committed, did not hesitate, were aggressive and got very close to the person they shot or stabbed. Edged weapons were steak knives and box cutters, guns we usually 22 or 9MM.

Browning
December 29, 2007, 11:57 AM
DAVIDSDIVAD : get some loc-tite, dude.

Well I tried that (on the CRKT), but it still worked it's way out.

Next time I'm just gonna get some super glue and get the correct Allen wrench from somewhere (I've been using a very small screwdriver as I don't have wrench that small and the shop at work doesn't have one either) and just glue the damn thing and then tighten it down real quick before the glue sets.

Those al-mar knives are really classy, though.

I've always wanted one but never gotten around to it.

Yeah, it's pretty nice.

When you go to open the knife it feels like it's on ball bearings (it's that smooth) and when it locks in place it doesn't move at all, not even the slightest play in it at all.

I've been wanting one for a long time and now it's mine, whoaahahaha! :D

JShirley
December 29, 2007, 12:11 PM
Green Lantern, I found a lot to agree with in your post.
Hmmmm...I ALWAYS have a knife on me, even when I don't carry - but it's a TOOL, not a WEAPON.

(As I told a co-worker that asked me about it one day, as I was using it to open a box, as I do multiple times each day. I 'splained to her that one needs a LOT of training to make a knife a practical weapon, and I just don't have it.

I think knives can be effective offensive weapons in certain situations, but are not well suited for defense (with perhaps being surprised and taken to the ground being the exception). I do have lots of training, and attack effectively with a blade- but I'd much prefer to defend with something else. Since I can't really see being the aggressor in practically any circumstance, that means I carry other things for defense.

John

che_70b
December 30, 2007, 04:51 AM
All of my knives are things like CRKT, or Buck. All of easy one handed opening design becouse that is easyer to open in a pinch, like holding weed eater cord in one hand and not wanting to put it down to open the knife :) .

I have had "knife fighting" training and while it is fun exersize it very unrealaistic. You don't really need training to knife fight. You need to realize that if someone is walking toward you with a knife you should draw a gun a shoot them. You need to realise if someone decides they want to stab you without you knowing about it till they do it is very easy to do. That person is more likely to decide to act like he is giving up and leaving then stab you when you are not looking.

A knife really shines for your defense when some has you pinned to a wall or has taken you to the ground. A knife is much harder to take away that pistol at contact ranges and nothing says quit trying to kill me in those situations like the repeated pumping motions of a knife into whatever parts of their you can reach.

JShirley
December 30, 2007, 01:41 PM
Yeah, if anyone ever decides using a knife is the best defensive choice they have left, the knife shouldn't be visible until after it's in use.

The training I've had always emphasized that going knife on knife is foolish (and almost never happens anyway), and when we actually practiced it, the training was done to remind us what a losing proposition it was.

John

Hank Dodge
December 30, 2007, 04:47 PM
I currently carry a Benchmade McHenry-Williams folder. I like the partially serrated blade and general profile it has. It's light, strong, and very well made. It cost about $150 where I bought it. I don't mind spending the money on quality equipment.

I guess that knife falls into the "Tacticool" classification, but mine gets used for everything from opening boxes to slicing tomatoes. I need a knife that can be opened easily with one hand and lock the blade firmly in place. This knife opens like it's blade is on ball bearings and locks like a vault door.

Did I mention that it holds an edge really good too!!



Hank

.44walkersabot
January 1, 2008, 07:26 PM
Well, different strokes for different folks.
I'll tell you how a knife really shine's with me and I'm not being sarcastic.
A good sharp knife (butcher knife such as Old Hickory, or a good fixed blade hunting knife) really shines when I'm trying to clean a fish, skin a squirrel or dress out a deer or wild hog or buffalo or antelope or whatever. Or maybe to cut a piece of line or stout string. Or peel a potato or cut up an onion or tomato or whatever.
If some bad guy or gal jump's you and you feel threatened. pull your gun or at least put your hand on it and make sure they can see it and know you have it, whether you actually pull it or not. If they're not armed that alone will probably scare them off. If they are moving toward you in a threatening manner with any type of lethal weapon in their hand (such as knife, gun, screwdriver, ballbat, scissors or whatever) give them one chance to drop it and leave if you have time. If you don't have time to tell them or if they hesitate about dropping the weapon, go ahead and shoot the hell out of them without wasting another word.
A good knife is a fine tool and it can be used to hurt people, but to the best of my ability I have absolutely no intention of letting myself get in the sort of situation as to where I would have to get in a 'knife fight' with anyone. I'll shoot the hell out of him. Or maybe I'll pick up whatever I can get my hands on and knock his damn brains out. I'll give him one swing, jab, or whatever with that knife and then whatever I'm swinging (cinder block, tree limb, fence post, iron bar, etc.) is going to connect with him on some part of his body, and where ever it connects it will leave a broken bone and maybe worse.
That's how I feel...Okay...

Rexster
January 1, 2008, 08:10 PM
Mercop, my karambit opens fine with one hand. :) I will reach for a snubby or fixed-blade first, if I can get to them, but the original post asked about 5.11 blades, so I addressed that issue.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 1, 2008, 10:43 PM
That's a beautiful knife there, Boats, and surely quite functional (and I've got a few Bucks), but the quality of both Buck and Gerber have declined severely over the last 15 years or so. Gerber is now in the toilet, while Buck is just a few notches above in their materials. Imperial/Schrade went that way too in their last few years before their demise. Gerber seems to be selling a LOT of their junk, due to aggressive marketing. Good for them. Buck too - same reason. Old bucks, old gerbers==good. New stuff, I stay away. I stick with premiums like Benchmade, or workin-man's-but-pretty-good blades like Kershaw, Spyderco, and CRKT.

See this thread for what I carry:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=327751

btucker1947
January 1, 2008, 11:22 PM
I taught Martial Arts for over 40 years. My carry knife is not a folding knife. It's a 5.5" blade hunting knife. When you fight with a knife it is a very personal weapon. If the other person has one, I''ll pull mine. Outcome is unknown. Remember, it takes training for any weapon.
I got my knife training from a WWII Infantry Soldier who was bayoneted through the arm, and pinned to a door. The only weapon he could use was his boot knife and he fought 2 German Soldiers and won. One of his other fights took place in a foxhole at night. He was well trained with a knife by an Indian. Training is always a key factor. Don't be fooled or mis-lead yourself; over confidence and being poorly trained will get you killed.
If I have my sidearm I shoot. I Prefer my 1911 or my 380 backup, in a knife fight. I'm too old for that stuff now, that's why I have Mr. Colt as my best friend who is always there and can dish out more Pain, meannest, and damage than my X wife ever thought of..

JShirley
January 2, 2008, 04:18 PM
If some bad guy or gal jump's you and you feel threatened. pull your gun or at least put your hand on it and make sure they can see it and know you have it, whether you actually pull it or not. If they're not armed that alone will probably scare them off. If they are moving toward you in a threatening manner with any type of lethal weapon in their hand (such as knife, gun, screwdriver, ballbat, scissors or whatever) give them one chance to drop it and leave if you have time. If you don't have time to tell them or if they hesitate about dropping the weapon, go ahead and shoot the hell out of them without wasting another word.


Well, I believe the jury is mixed on citizens using verbal command. If the threat is moving rapidly towards you at typical ranges, present your firearm and fire until you are no longer threatened.

There are some complicated issues involved with using (potentially) lethal force. Typically, the other person has to have the ability and desire to badly hurt you. Depending on your state of residence, the defender may have a "duty to retreat" if at all possible. There are other potentials, such as disparity of force (using a lethal weapon may not be considered legal if facing a potential adversary of similar size, but would be if facing multiple adversaries intent on harming you).

In any case, bluff should NOT be used. Advertising that you are carrying without definite need is a BAD strategy. It gives the threat additional time to move against you. Yeah, it may work against less committed threats, but you have just lessened your ability to deal with a truly dangerous threat, and also potentially escalated the situation.

John

Boats
January 4, 2008, 07:35 PM
Well the Buck 419 is a custom shop quality piece. I don't buy low end anything.

My usual EDC is a Spyderco Endura 4 in ZDP-189 or VG-10, depending on the weather. (VG-10 is better on corrosion resistance).

Back to Buck. My newest one, the 419, is a brass framed, stablized rosewood scaled, beauty of a liner lock with an excellently done S30V blade. It is made in Post Falls Idaho, and no corners have been cut.

My other is a custom 110 folding hunter with silver nickel bolsters, koa scales, and a BG-42 blade. Nothing cheap about that one either.

Buck is way better than Gerber, Cold Steel and a whole host of other knife companies in that if you spend your way up their product line, you definitely get great quality, higher end materials, and a better value for your dollars than most others will provide.

Limeyfellow
January 5, 2008, 12:39 AM
Lets see.

Right now I carry a Gerber multitool as my go to tool. Used to open boxes, cut small stuff, pliers are used to tighten stuff on my telescope, home and car repair and just about everything else.

If I need a larger blade I have a Bear balisong that I use. Quick to deploy and has some strength behind it.

If I need something larger for chopping, generally slicing and heavy work I pull out my khurkri. That thing will go through just about anything.

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