effective Self-d with 9mm in South Florida


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December 21, 2007, 04:46 PM
I did not see this discussed before,
therefore thought it is of interest

http://www.miamiherald.com/467/story/349811.html

.. and the 9mm did it what it was supposed to do, against

Also good that this article was in a typically anti-gun miamiherald

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strat81
December 21, 2007, 04:53 PM
Scary stuff. Good to see the roofer kept his wits.

Seems like there's more to be told... the attacker's daughter was in the truck too???

Jamie C.
December 21, 2007, 05:01 PM
I still don't know why anybody would think a 9mm won't work... They've been doing just fine for many years now.

All I can say is good for Mr. Labidou for keeping his head enough to get the job done and stay alive.


J.C.

1911Tuner
December 21, 2007, 05:23 PM
I still don't know why anybody would think a 9mm won't work... They've been doing just fine for many years now.

Yep. If it's shot well, the 9 will do. Sometimes it requires multiple hits, but the same can be said of a .44 Magnum.

Like a sig line I saw recently:

"And the .45 vs 9mm debate contines to rage on...and it ain't for lack of corpses to study."

KrankyKraut
December 21, 2007, 05:26 PM
I agree with 9mm effectiveness. That cartridge has killed more people than any other handgun cartridge in history. If you use high quality hollow points and place the shot well, it's all over.

CoRoMo
December 21, 2007, 05:37 PM
That cartridge has killed more people than any other handgun cartridge in history.

I'd really like to see the source of this 'fact' because I've always heard something different.
I'm a huge fan of the 9x19 round, and believe it is almost perfect as far as semi-auto handgun SD goes.

Roman756
December 21, 2007, 05:43 PM
According an article today,Mr.Labidou is severely depressed and has gone into seclusion over the killing,according to his brother.
This is understandable, but he was faced with no choice and the community and his friends and family have to support him to get over this trauma.
It was his life or theirs.
Obviously he made the right decision and the State Attorney is going to back him up.
He seemed to have quite a bit of command with his 9mm.

Heavy Metal Hero
December 21, 2007, 05:43 PM
If it's shot well, the 9 will do.

The 1911 if shot well, with it's .45 ACP will do.

EDIT: This was a joke, try not to get excited (41magsnub).

41magsnub
December 21, 2007, 05:48 PM
The 1911 if shot well, with it's .45 ACP will do.

A .22lr/.25ACP/.32/.38/357/10mm/40s&w/41 mag/44 mag/.88 "school buster mag"/etc if shot well will do too. What is your point?


yes.. my sig is satire before playing the hypocrite card.

Scanr
December 21, 2007, 05:49 PM
I'd really like to see the source of this 'fact' because I've always heard something different.

Well, how about the Germans in WW2, they used them in their Lugers. This is my opinion.

mekender
December 21, 2007, 06:16 PM
Yep. If it's shot well, the 9 will do. Sometimes it requires multiple hits, but the same can be said of a .44 Magnum.

Like a sig line I saw recently:

"And the .45 vs 9mm debate contines to rage on...and it ain't for lack of corpses to study."

hmm now whos sig might that have been?

oh and 1911... dude... got a couple of ??? that are right up your alley over on CSF

Jim March
December 21, 2007, 06:21 PM
I think people relying on 9mm should be more picky about ammo than, say, 357Mag shooters. People with 38Snubs need to be REAL savvy about ammo choices.

That said, both the 9mm and 38+P/snub can get the job done.

Jim March
December 21, 2007, 06:25 PM
As to the shooting: looks VERY clean. The assailants blocked off the victim by pulling in front of him, then charged with at least one knife, both acting aggressively. Nothing remotely borderline about it. The victim (shooter) seems to have done everything right, and even under stress didn't say anything too weird to the police dispatcher.

A textbook lawful shooting.

1911Tuner
December 21, 2007, 06:40 PM
hmm now whos sig might that have been?

Aha! Couldn't remember who had it. Now I know... :cool:

I'll be over there as soon as I get the dogs fed and settled in.

Jim Watson
December 21, 2007, 06:53 PM
Main reason the 9mm has such a high body count is that there are so many submachine guns for it.

I am sorry that Mr.Labidou is depressed, but we are told we ought to feel badly for defeating an enemy these days. Phooey.

mekender
December 21, 2007, 06:56 PM
and even more suprising, no one is holding a protest march saying it was a racist shooting...

you can bet that if the races were reversed, jessie jackson and al sharpton would be down there marching in the street...

good riddance to a criminal, in my eyes, criminals are all the same color... yeller

rocinante
December 21, 2007, 07:37 PM
I am morally opposed to the concept of hate crime. A crime is a crime regardless of motivation and it the hate crime laws opposed the ideal of EQUAL protection under the law. Whatever happened to justice is blind? Just not color or sexual persuasion blind.

This man acted within his rights just as everyone else should. The scum paid an immediate price and the survivor will go to jail for his ACTIONS not his motives. Considering anything else is a perversion of justice.

Winchester 73
December 21, 2007, 07:42 PM
Jim Watson.

I agree the killing had to be done.
But phooey is somewhat blase when you've wiped another human beings life,dirt bag or not.
Re-evaluate,if possible.
Have more facts and less opinions.

CrawdaddyJim
December 21, 2007, 08:02 PM
I wrote him a note to let him know that he did the right thing. And as hard as it was to do. That he should not feel bad about defending himself. He might just want to get past it and then again he might be bolstered by a few people who support his right to self defense.

Hygens Labidou
Impact Roofing, Inc.
931 W 15th Street
Riviera Beach, FL 33404
5616885833

Jim Watson
December 21, 2007, 09:48 PM
I duuno, '73. Like most modern suburban Americans, I have been socialized to the point that I would probably feel bad if I had to shoot someone in self defense. Then I would be angry for my weakness. Jeff Cooper was right, the correct response to aggression is anger, the normal reaction to winning over aggression is elation.

marksman13
December 21, 2007, 10:02 PM
73, I have to agree with Jim and of course Jeff Cooper. It is never easy to take a life, and those who remember when I first started posting here can tell you that I had problems with some things I did it Iraq, but a person who defends himself successfully in a life threatening situation should be reverant but proud. The man should be proud that he had prepared himself well enough to protect his life. He also cleaned up the streets a little it seems. What kind of guy jumps out of a truck to someone over a traffic incident with his daughter in the car? I don't believe that I would drown myself with self-pity and sorrow if I had been in Labidou's shoes. Not saying that he is any less of a man or anything absurd like that, but we all deal with stressful events differently.

Onmilo
December 21, 2007, 11:02 PM
Oh No!
A 9mm simply will not do!
You MUST carry and use a .479 Wildebeast auto or you aren't a real macho hombre!

Black Adder LXX
December 21, 2007, 11:18 PM
I made sure to tell my wife this story. So she doesn't think I'm crazy for wanting to be armed... This went down like 15 minutes from me...

Winchester 73
December 22, 2007, 12:48 AM
Jim Watson and marksman 13,
Again, I believe he had no choice in this matter and understand your thinking.
But different personalities will re-act differently to taking another human life no matter the circumstances.
Obviously Mr.Labidou is having a lot more problems dealing with it then the 3 of us would have.
Following CrawdaddyJim's good advice and sent him a letter of support.

Run&Shoot
December 22, 2007, 01:20 AM
I think it interesting that he was able to shoot both bad guys twice. The second one must have been incredibly stupid:
1) Uh-oh, we brought a knife to a gun fight;
2) Uh-oh again, my buddy is getting shot up and I am standing around waiting my turn.

The armed citizen did great. It sounds more like a raging anger crime than a hate crime as the bad guy was known to have a short fuse with everyone and he allegedly was angry over the armed guy's driving.

I don't believe crimes should be labeled hate crimes anyway, as bad is bad for whatever reason. Good to see a man defend himself, whatever his color, religion or handedness :)

marksman13
December 22, 2007, 01:31 AM
We don't disagree, 73. I understand exactly what you are saying. I just don't agree with the notion that a person who kills another in self defense should feel bad about it. Just my stance. Not saying that my way is the right way.

Winchester 73
December 22, 2007, 02:27 AM
marksman13,
I understand completely.I've had to pull a gun on a bad guy twice and fortunately, no fatalities occurred.
If they had, I've would had have no remorse.
But this gentleman has a different mindset.

Ultrachimp
December 22, 2007, 02:35 AM
I am morally opposed to the concept of hate crime. A crime is a crime regardless of motivation and it the hate crime laws opposed the ideal of EQUAL protection under the law. Whatever happened to justice is blind? Just not color or sexual persuasion blind.

This man acted within his rights just as everyone else should. The scum paid an immediate price and the survivor will go to jail for his ACTIONS not his motives. Considering anything else is a perversion of justice.

Couldn't have put it better.;)

doc2rn
December 22, 2007, 11:12 AM
Um one question, why didn't he just drive away? I am all for protecting ones self and a gun will certainly do that, but why not just drive off once they hopped out? Was it because they used the N_____ word? Like a tootsie pop, the world may never know.

DerbyDale
December 22, 2007, 11:40 AM
I don't think he could drive away. It happened at an intersection and the two guys stopped their truck in front of his. I would bet there was traffic stopped behind him, so he was boxed in and could not drive away.

...But the BSO said the verbal sparring turned violent when Lonzisero stopped his truck at the intersection of Green Road and Powerline in front of Labidou's flatbed truck...

NASCAR_MAN
December 22, 2007, 11:42 AM
doc2rn
Um one question, why didn't he just drive away? I am all for protecting ones self and a gun will certainly do that, but why not just drive off once they hopped out? Was it because they used the N_____ word? Like a tootsie pop, the world may never know.
===========================================

Well...you present no facts, but you do make a nice smear of character.

Good work Ms. Brady!

DerbyDale
December 22, 2007, 11:51 AM
It also sounds like one of them actually had a HOLD on him. Sounds like he had his windows down...

...One of the men, six feet tall and 350 pounds, tried to pull Labidou from the truck...

ExtremeDooty
December 22, 2007, 12:01 PM
The flatbed trucks commonly used in roofing and construction are not all that maneuverable especially in traffic. It's just not always possible to retreat to avoid a conflict.

These two hot heads escalated the situation rather than retreating (or just driving away) and paid the price for their own actions. Like most bullies, they probably weren't used to someone standing up to them.

mad hungarian
December 22, 2007, 12:09 PM
Hey, Just took thwe time to send a letter of support to Labidou. See Crawdaddy Jim's post (#19) for the address. Great idea!!, Crawdaddy:)
It seems that Labidou would benefit from some encouragement from fellow concealed handgun carriers.

MH

doc2rn
December 22, 2007, 01:00 PM
Rule of gross tonnage. Two hotheads jump out of a 1/2 ton Pickup in front of you. You are in a 3.75 ton flatbed roofing truck. You can a use the accellerator pedal to get your way out! Anyone with a name like your's should at least know the gear and torque ratio on a diesel faltbed is adequate to get you out of there just by pushing. Unless you are a couch potatoe fan.
If one did get a hold of him as stated above, it would not even be a questionable shoot. I was just asking a question! We needed more pertinent information on the situation, and I needed some more facts before drawing any conclusion.
If you are gonna stoop to calling people names, I can meet you in Liberal, Ks at highnoon on a Sunday where it is still legal to have a duel according to Laws still on the books. Yup, your punk card just got pulled!

Pete409
December 22, 2007, 01:17 PM
If you are gonna stoop to calling people names, I can meet you in Liberal, Ks at highnoon on a Sunday where it is still legal to have a duel according to Laws still on the books. Yup, your punk card just got pulled!

Doc, I don't think that challenging a person to a duel is appropriate for this forum. No, I'm not the forum police. I just think that such language (writing) is totally out of place here.

Jamie C.
December 22, 2007, 01:44 PM
I can meet you in Liberal, Ks at highnoon on a Sunday where it is still legal to have a duel according to Laws still on the books.

Doc2rn... you keep making offers like that and, sooner or later, some damn fool will end up taking you up on it.

Seriously, that kind of crap don't even make a good joke these days.


J.C.

NASCAR_MAN
December 22, 2007, 01:49 PM
Ok Nascar

Rule of gross tonnage. Two hotheads jump out of a 1/2 ton Pickup in front of you. You are in a 3.75 ton flatbed roofing truck. You can a use the accellerator pedal to get your way out! Anyone with a name like your's should at least know the gear and torque ratio on a diesel faltbed is adequate to get you out of there just by pushing. Unless you are a couch potatoe fan....
=============================================

Hmmm...you seem to know the weights of the trucks. Where did you get this information?

Also, have you consedered that plowing your way out of a Jam might hurt innocent people?

Weher do you get your information?

Guitargod1985
December 22, 2007, 04:11 PM
I am morally opposed to the concept of hate crime. A crime is a crime regardless of motivation and it the hate crime laws opposed the ideal of EQUAL protection under the law. Whatever happened to justice is blind? Just not color or sexual persuasion blind.

This man acted within his rights just as everyone else should. The scum paid an immediate price and the survivor will go to jail for his ACTIONS not his motives. Considering anything else is a perversion of justice.

Amen, brother.

doc2rn
December 22, 2007, 08:22 PM
In order I live in Ks, I learned to drive in a 5 ton grain truck and a Farmall tractor. I got most of my information from working as a roofer in highschool.The small truck we had for dumpin old shingles was 3.75 ton, and that was a small one. The elevator trucks weigh much more.
Yes and loss of life should be avoided at all cost. Big difference between hurting and killing someone.
I got most of my information on this topic by reading the whole thing, and I still dont know what to make of it. Otherwise like any good college grad student I do research and try to make an informed opinion. I wasn't being a neh-sayer, I was merely commenting on the transcript of his 911 call. You know that if it ever goes to court that will be brought up. It will also be brought up that he shot an unarmed man as well as an armed one.
The one thing I am taking away from this is never bring a knife to a gunfight.

Winchester 73
December 22, 2007, 10:12 PM
doc2rn,
Is dueling really still legal in(if so perfectly named )Liberal,KS or just sarcasm on your part?I'm naive and easily taken in!
I was in Liberal for 5 minutes,right over the Oklahoma border in 1996 while on the way to Sante Fe,NM ,just to be able to say I've been to Kansas.It was dusty,windy and forlorn looking.
Seems like great dueling country if its still legal!

doc2rn
December 23, 2007, 01:08 AM
One of my friends did a paper on CCW's, and yes that law is still on the books in some old towns, I am not 100% sure on if it is Liberal or not. My point was making dumb statements is unwaranted, just like name calling. Guess I should have explained that better. Federal law still trumps state law, so murder is illegal, no matter what law is still on the books.

nelson133
December 23, 2007, 06:29 AM
Some time back I was involved in a self defense situation and reported it here, primarily for education purposes. I was fascinated by the number of second guessers that responded with criticisms and exact descriptions of what I should have done, though they had never experienced anything like the incident. If you haven't been there, you can't comment intelligently. If you sit back in your easy chair and ponder what someone should have done when they were in great personal danger with only seconds to decide what to do, you are unrealistic at best. I phrase it this way to stay on the high road,my real thoughts are somewhat darker. The bad guys got shot and the good guy walked away, this is a successful end to the story.

Lashlarue
December 23, 2007, 09:43 AM
Actual more firearm deaths are caused by the lowly 22lr, not because of their power, but due to the fact that they out number other calibers 10x1.Also I'm not going to damage my vehicle when I have a gun and my antagonists are armed with a knife.Common sense tells you not to wreck your vehicle when it is the source of your income.Also ramming their vehicle in the rear puts you at fault and responsible for their damages.Lots of reasons not to do what was suggested above and in real life whether armed or not, doubtful more than one in one hundred would choose that option.

Winchester 73
December 25, 2007, 01:36 AM
It was good to see a letter in today's Miami Herald directed to Mr Labidou:
'Thank you,Hygens Labidou.I'm sorry you had to go through this horrible incident of road rage.But I want to thank you for buying the gun and getting a permit to carry it.The streets of South Florida(maybe everywhere)are a little safer now.
The "bad guys"never know whether their intended victims may be well prepared to defend themselves or family.We need more good people like you.I also thank the Florida Legislature for approving laws that allow us to defend ourselves in a world full of predators.'
Larry P.Menoher,Miami,FL
Fine job by Mr. Menoher and I must compliment the Herald for printing his excellent letter.

Black Adder LXX
December 25, 2007, 06:19 AM
Florida has the castle doctrine. He was there lawfully and had no duty to retreat. Maybe he was scared and thought his life was in danger and considered that his pistol had a better chance of stopping his assailants than the option of trying to drive his larger vehicle through the smaller ones around him and hope he didn't get stabbed while doing it...

David904
December 25, 2007, 06:40 AM
He shot an unarmed man as well as an armed one, eh?

Well... I have to say that if I was being attacked by multiple assailants and I happen to see one weapon ready for use against me, I'm inclined to believe one of two things:

1. The other assailant is armed too and I just haven't seen it yet.
2. The "unarmed" assailant is capable of causing enough problems for me that the other assailant can use his weapon on me effectively so therefor needs to be removed from the equation.

Nobody in their right mind wants to kill another human being. At most, we wonder how we would stand up to the ultimate life/death test, but that falls far short of a real desire to field-test any theories.

I, for one, believe that he unequivocally did the right thing. Battering his way through with his vehicle may have killed the child in the car or injured/killed other motorists. He drew his weapon and engaged the threats in a controlled manner hurting no bystanders (thankfully). These jerks who attacked him... I'm sure that this wasn't the first time they have done something like this. I have no sympathy for them. Good riddance to bad trash.

CombatArmsUSAF
December 25, 2007, 08:38 AM
Oh No!
A 9mm simply will not do!
You MUST carry and use a .479 Wildebeast auto or you aren't a real macho hombre!

Priceless.

Sounds to me like he did a good thing. In deadly force situations, one side is going to get to go home to their family at the end of the day. It's better if your the guy that lives to see another day. No reason he should feel guilty, it's not his fault the idiot brought a knife to a gun fight.

tallpaul
December 25, 2007, 12:19 PM
I agree with the poster(s) that point out that us "whities" ain't crying racism...
trash is trash and they caused their own demise.

I also don't see a need to drive through other vehicles and put myself or others at additional unknown risk. I have been attacked a couple times while armed and retreated but it did not put myself or others at risk doing so.

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