[mwpslp]

I took my 10 year old daughter on her first hunting trip this week and just got home tonight. We went hunting for a Bison to have processed for meat. Went for a 2 to 3 year old cow and that's what we got. Not the biggest but should be tasty I hope. Weighed about 1,000 pounds. Shot at about 100 yards. The bullet went through both lungs and removed about 1/3 of the heart before exiting the other side. Buffalo went about 5 to 7 yards, stumbled and dropped over dead in about 15 or 20 seconds. My daughter had a great time and wants to go hunting again which is the best part for me.

[eliphalet]

What did that cost ya?

Quite a bit is not quite right or so it seems.

First picture you have now deleted has a old tire laying on the ground behind you and the buffalo makes it look like in a farmers trash in some field and not fair chase,

Second how did you manage to have the critter all hung up and not even gutted yet?

And that posed picture how many guys or equipment did it take to pose the animal so well?

Was this really hunting or one of them canned affairs?
Tell me I am wrong please.

[marksman13]

Canned hunt or not, the man said he shot the buff for meat. Can't argue with that. Glad she had a good time. Lighten up, E. Not everybody does things the same way.:D

[mwpslp]

No offense taken oregonhunter. OK to answer eliphalet's questions.....The photos were taken when the animal was brought up to where it was to be gutted and skinned, that's why you saw a tire in the one photo because it was for his tractor. Yes he had to use his tractor to bring the animal up there. The hunt took place on a little over 10,000 acre ranch in Oklahoma. I don't know exactly how big that is but since we were on foot it felt like a lot of land. The animals are free range I guess about as much as you can on 10,000 acres but to me that's a lot of ground to cover, and since I haven't seen any running around the streets of Dallas, TX lately I had to go elsewhere. :D We set out that morning hunting shortly after sunrise and by the time we caught up with a small group of about 12 or 15 where this one was shot it was probably around 1 pm that afternoon. We hung the animal and took a photo or two and it was gutted just a few minutes there after and then skinned and put in the cooler you see behind where it is hanging. It was then picked up by the processor that evening. Cost a little over $1000 but to me that's cheaper than going to the store and buying that much steak, hamburger, and roast.

[eliphalet]

Mwpslp,
Didn't mean for this to be a personal attack.
I have not one thing against buying a critter and killing it for meat.
I guess my definition of hunting differs from some.
I was a jerk and ruined or at the least put a dent in some of your hunts enjoyment.
For that I am sorry

[redneck2]

He is in Texas so fair chase is probably out of the question. That's totally out of line.

10,000 acres seems pretty free ranging to me. Sounds like a good time for $,1000 and you get lots of meat. Best thing is taking the daughter.

What caliber? Love to try my .45-90 on one.

[cobrian45]

This will be coming from someone with a lot of experience in this field and more knowledge than most of this particular situation. In case some don't know, I did this professionally for years. I can tell you that if you use the word "canned" for a hunt, you had better be specifically referencing one hunting scenario that you know the details of personally. Otherwise, you are speaking from ignorance and I know people here don't like that. In my years as a guide, I guided many I would consider an easy hunt. Others would not. In the same time frame, we hunted Axis deer for days under 1500 acre high-fenced areas, by your definition "canned", and never got close to anything shootable. That said, mwpslp clearly stated his intent for taking this particular animal. He and his family very much enjoyed themselves and I, for one, as a connoisseur of game meat envy him on this one. With the acreage involved in the hunt most of the time is spent finding the animals. I say congratulations to mwpslp and good luck on that next venture. I know you'll be extra proud on the next hunt.

[justice4all]

It's got to be healthier than fatty beef, and the price seems reasonable for a lot of meat. It's not like cows stand any real chance of getting away once the locomotive pulls into the slaughterhouse.

[Liberty1776]

MWPSLP - that's a good price, and I'd like to do that. Does the ranch have a website or link?

Thanks...

[TehK1w1]

If by "canned", you mean blind-hunting deer on a 42,000 Acre low-fenced lease, then yes we texans do canned hunts. :barf:

Have you ever actually hunted down here?

Sorry for the hijack.

[john1911]

The smile on your daughter's face says it all. Good job introducing the next generation.

Don't mind the nay sayers, it's usually jealousy or ignorance.

[mwpslp]

No offense taken here. We had a great time and will do it again one day. I didn't mean to jump on you eliphalet, I just wanted to answer your questions. The rifle is a Sako 75 Hunter in .270 Winchester that I recently bought off of another forum member. I was shooting Hornady 150 gr. Interlocks. Before anyone screams "not enough gun" I can tell you that I pride myself on shot placement and the outcome here was perfect. One of the most fun parts for us is that we got a chance to see two large 2,000 pound bulls fighting. In their anger they were not paying much attention to us and probably pushed themselves to within 50 yards of us. When they would crash heads together you could literally feel the ground shake. Quite a sight to behold.

[eliphalet]

We're good as far as I am concerened but thanks,
Seems to me you have answered one of the most argued questions here and that is caliber and or bullet weight. Shot placement is numero uno in my book and looks like you've provided great proof. Enjoy that meat it's good stuff.
Who knows by next time maybe the daughter will wanna do the shootin.

[mwpslp]

I hope so (to get my daughter shooting). I think I am going to start looking for a little .243 for her to get her started on deer. All she has at this point is a scoped Remington .22, but it's cheap to practice with. Here she is getting ready to take some target practice with a .223 out at that same ranch the prior day. (yes she has ear plugs in and shooting glasses on the table)

[cobrian45]

mwpslp, sorry about the earlier rant.

Is that Mini 14? When you said .223, I didn't realize that was the gun. That's a fun one to shoot. My first gun was a .243 and I loved it. Either one seems like it would be perfect. The .243 might have a little more longetivy. I got a full size and grew into it. That's just the way things were done back then. Now, they have so many youth and smaller models like the Model 7 that you can get a comfortable gun that will still be fun to shoot when she's older. Can't wait to see her pics on here for the first hunt.

[Gaiudo]

looks like a fantastic hunt. Any information you can give out on the location/operation?

[oregonhunter]

I love to see hunters focus on shot placement rather than super super short fat magnum cabammers. My earlier statement was a joke.....kinda. Nice shootin though.

[308win]

Is the yield of meat from a buffalo equivalent to beef? You dont' hear anything about preserve hunts for buffalo in Ohio; I don't know, may be against the game laws. I doubt if there is a 10,000 acre tract in Ohio other than the coal holdings and the National Forest.

[aguyindallas]

I too am curious about the place you went and how much meat you will net from it all (along with the cost to process this meat). I am trying to get a break down of how much per pound it costs to get it on the table.

[cobrian45]

Now, at the the risk of getting completely off topic, something to consider when you are doing the math on meat to cost ratio is the fact that it is Bison you are getting. Bison meat usually runs $5.00 to $20.00 per POUND. Ground Bison averages $5.00 a pound and if you buy the steaks, you're going to pay between $10.00 and $20.00 per pound. If your math brings you to about what you will be paying for normal everyday beef in the store, you're getting a great deal for free range Bison. On the low end, you might be paying per pound about what the ground meat costs, but you'll be paying the same per pound for the loin cuts, which will probably end up being about 1/4 the retail price.

Heres just one example:

http://www.blackwing.com/landing_full.php?cmc=1005

[308win]

From the Beefman Site (http://www.askthemeatman.com/yield_on_beef_carcass.htm)

Beef Carcass Breakdown
With an average market (live or on hoof) weight of 1,150 lbs and the average yield of 62.2%, the typical steer will produce a 715 lb. (dressed weight) carcass.

The dressed beef (or carcass) will yield approximately 569 lbs. (further details below) of red meat and trim (take home meat - which includes the average weight of 27 lbs of variety meat: liver, heart, tongue, tripe, sweetbreads and brains) and 146 lbs of fat, bone and loss. This is roughly a yield of 80% from the dressed or hanging weight - this is for a VERY LEAN Beef. A High Quality, USDA Choice Beef will yield approximately 70% of the Hanging or Dressed Weight. The yield on the take home meat weight from the live weight of the (VERY LEAN) steer is approximately 50%.

[saddlebum]

i have a question, whens the cook out? mmmm. buff burgers

[mwpslp]

I am told to expect about 400 pounds of packaged meat. The processor charged me $200 for the job and I opted to pay an additional $50 to have it vacuum sealed. He said it could last up to 2 years that way. Therefore it cost me $250 for the total processing portion. The ranch owner provided a cabin for us to stay in on the property for $25 per person which I thought was reasonable. There was a $100 per day fee for the guide as he doesn't want someone out there wandering alone on the property. Our guide was excellent and I did give him an additional $100 "tip" as he made it very memorable for us. Oklahoma also charges $5 for a non-resident 10 day hunting permit. Also I am having the hide tanned but I am not sure what that will cost as of yet. My out of pocket total not counting gas, food, and hide tanning was $1,505.

[cobrian45]

That's an exceptional deal just for the meat. That's not counting the trip and the fun and the family enjoyment. You have to factor that in to the equation. Sounds like one heck of a deal all around. Great decision on the vaccuuming. If they offer that, it is definitely worth it. We vaccuum a lot of our venison that we intend to store longer.

[eliphalet]

I am told to expect about 400 pounds of packaged meat.
My out of pocket total not counting gas, food, and hide tanning was $1,505.Less than $4 a pound for meat, hide and more. Cheaper that you could buy any other way I betcha without your extras included.

Had to skip elk hunting this year because of medical reasons and was tempted to pay $450 for a cow elk in a pen for the meat alone. We cut, grind and wrap our own, the last cow we did had over 150 Lbs. of wrapped meat. That would be about $3 a pound it was kinda tempting.

Better than beef at a less cost, win, win situation, Meat would taste as good.

[308win]

That is an attractive price. Driving from Ohio to Oklahoma would be a two day ordeal one way and would add say four hundred to the round trip cost for gas, lodging, meals.

Hmmmm. What is the name of the host if you don'g mind saying?

[Geno]

Great pics! Congrats on getting out with your daughter. For those who may never have hunted a 50,000 acre Texas, game ranch, that's a lot of land to cover!

Doc2005

[H&Hhunter]

640 acres to a square mile boys. 10,000 acres is a good chunk of land.

Ranch hunting for buffalo is what it is. IT is a great place to start a new hunter out and let them shoot a critter and build their confidence. So on and so forth.

There are darn few places to hunt free range bison anywhere in the world.

North rim of the grand canyon.

Henry mountains of Utah.

SW Wyoming.

The boot heal of NM and then for big bucks on private land only.

South Dakota on Custer State Park

Possibly some Indian reservations in NA.

Canada has a wild woodland bison herd that are huntable but non exportable into the US due to CITES.

Alaska has a wild herd but drawing a tag is next to impossible.

If there are any other free range opportunities I am not mentioning they are few and far between.

So if you want to go and shoot a bison you pretty much have to hunt a ranch. Some are more challenging than others. But they are all about the meat and romance of the old west to me.


FINALLY ANYBODY who makes the statement that all hunting is Texas is canned high fence hunting not only doesn't know what they are talking about they are showing an EXTREME level of sheltered city boy style ignorance.

In fact they need to pull their collective heads out of their collective behinds take a deep breath and look around. Their is a whole world of primo hunting that they are missing out on.

The place I hunt in Texas is 169,000 acres with not a high fence within hundreds of miles. I hunt spot and stalk no stands no corn. Just like here in Colorado.

I truly can not believe some of crap I see posted on this at times!

:rolleyes:

[rbernie]

The bullet went through both lungs and removed about 1/3 of the heart before exiting the other side. Buffalo went about 5 to 7 yards, stumbled and dropped over dead in about 15 or 20 seconds. My daughter had a great time and wants to go hunting again which is the best part for me.
Good shootin', and I'm glad that everybody had a good time. :)

[ocharry]

mwpslp,,,hey congrats on the buff,,,,and you are gona really like that meat

cook it slow on a low fire to keep it moist and tender

i have killed 2 buffs with a 74 sharps and black powder,,,,,used a guy in Kansas by the name of Lee Hawes,,,, he does it up in real style on horses and in dougouts or teepee's

once the gear is hauled in it's just like stepping back in time 150 years

any way the reason i jumped in here is you said you were going to get your hide tanned,,,, i had the last one i killed done by a guy in Kansas and man he did a great job

Arthur Albro "MID-KANSAS TANNING" 620-225-6252 11716-110 spur rd. Dodge City, Kansas 67801

you will not be sorry you sent your hide to him,,, he does great work

if you haven't already settled on someone to do your hide give Art a call

ocharry

[ashgee]

OP: Congratulations, sounds like a great outing in all aspects. I also envy you, and sit here with a rumbling stomach just thinking of the kind of steaks you're going to be looking at :) Just curious: what's the plan with the hide?

[eliphalet]

FINALLY ANYBODY who makes the statement that all hunting is Texas is canned high fenceCause it's happening on a regular basis is why.

Not everyone for sure, doesn't sound like you at all, but guys are paying thousands to sit in heated blinds with specific alleys ways where they can shoot on some so called ranches as small a 200 or less fenced acres over feeders and have the audacity to say they went "hunting" or claim to be "hunters".

We see it on TV, video's, on the net, read of guys doing just that. 10,000 acres is over 15 square miles,( if I was misunderstood this is hunting) on foot is one thing. Sitting in a heated blind over a feeder on a few fenced acres is another ( this is not).

I could care less what they shoot/kill or really how it's done, but That sir is NOT hunting, NOT to me, or any other "hunter" or outdoorsman of any creditability. In fact it hurts everyone involved in the sport IMHO.
Leaves us all open to the likes of a Micheal Moore, peta etc. believe me that will or has happened.

[Art Eatman]

Here's a canned hunt for ya: The west pasture of the 02 ranch, south of Alpine, has 28 miles of highway frontage, and is some 17 miles deep. Yeah, it's cross-fenced into little bitty pastures of only some 30- or 40-thoousand acres. Sheep&Goat fence, four feet high...

But my ol' Daddy sez to me, "Son (He called me "Son"), it's best to find that one acre in the pasture where Ol' Biggie is bedded down. The rest of it doesn't count."

Look: A "canned hunt" is a small enclosure where the targeted animal cannot avoid being seen and cannot escape. IOW, an open area of very little acreage. Say, maybe five acres or so.

But even here in the desert, I have a mesquite thicket in my southeast pasture where you couldn't get a shot at a deer in a high-fenced five acres if you hunted 'til you died of old age. You can crawl, of course, if you don't feel any pain from cactus--but you ain't gonna walk through it or see over it.

Maybe we oughta be purist: Those who are not skilled stalkers are not allowed to buy a hunting license, and those who cannot demonstrate a high degree of proficiency in shooting are not allowed to buy a firearm.

There are tens of thousands of hunting ranches in Texas. The dozen or so "easy deals" shown on TV are a trivial number and are in no way representative. Then again, I guess TV is the last bastion of truth, fact, and reality?

Art

[H&Hhunter]

Art,

You tend to be so smooth with the true facts that they tend to slide right over many peoples heads.:D

[eliphalet]

I guess when it comes right down to it the definition of "hunt" or "hunter" is a matter of opinion.

[rbernie]

And, like most opinions, there is never a clear-cut right or wrong. So why trample all over Matt's family outing just so you can express your opinion?

I hunt on foot, on 1000+ acre high fence ranches covered in dense scrub, using a rifle. I consider this to be hunting as I like to do it. The guy/gal sittin' in a stand with a bow may think that I'm cheatin by using a firearm. The folk using dogs may think I'm silly. The guy with a stand on public land, putting up over a crop of forage may think I'm a loon.

It doesn't matter. I do my thing, and I make my peace with it.

So should it be for everyone else.

[Roswell 1847]

Theres a Beefalo ranch near here, if its still in business that is. I drove by there once and saw a Beefalo that would make the Buff in the thread starter look like a poodle.
They vary in appearance but that big bull looked like it came right off an Indian head nickel.
Never tried that Beefalo meat but I expect it would have to be pretty good.

[oregonhunter]

For some reason These how ever so many acre's still seem more like Shooting places rather than places to Hunt. Out here in My City as H&H calls it, people have that kind of land to live and earn a living on, it comes in acres. Out here we hunt units these untis are huge, no blinds no truck trails everywhere, logging roads sometimes.

[cobrian45]

Group Buy on Bison hunts anyone? :D

But seriously, if anyone is serious about going there, I'm sure mwpslp would appreciate some kind words to the owner that his experience brought you there. They love to hear that word of mouth on good hunts brings more people to their business.

[ArmedBear]

That is an attractive price. Driving from Ohio to Oklahoma would be a two day ordeal one way and would add say four hundred to the round trip cost for gas, lodging, meals.

Just went from San Diego to southern Montana for a buffalo hunt, also on a ranch. Three guys shared fuel costs, not bad (about $215 apiece for a 4x4 Dodge dually diesel with a big camper on the back, and a lot of buffalo meat in it on the way back).

As far as this vs. high fence hunting ranches, there is some difference. If you've hunted buffalo, you'll understand the difference. Buffalo are not like antelope; they can move faster than they seem to, but they don't exactly go streaking across the plains. They're not like elk in the wooded mountains, where you might look for a few days and not see one, then, when you do, it will be running away. Buffalo herds are easy to see, and they often stand around after one is shot.

We used handloaded .45-70 and .50-90 BP cartridge buffalo rifles. Of the four of us, I was the only one with a modern-manufactured Sharps replica. The other three rifles, and an additional backup, were originals from the 1870s. Sights were original or in my case, identical to the originals, which is to say, tiny and a bit hard to see. We butchered the meat ourselves, most of it in a cold barn, and the rest of it at home.

For almost a week, we stayed out on the plains in primitive canvas tents, chopped and burned wood for heat. A couple of the guys were extremely well-versed in the history of the area and of buffalo hunting in the 1870s, and I learned a lot. The rancher who owned the place had an incredible collection of historic firearms from the 1850s through 1890s, nearly all of them with a specific and significant history in the area.

We had pickup trucks instead of horsedrawn wagons, and we used a tractor to help retrieve and gut carcasses. Otherwise, though, we got to experience a lot of what it was like to hunt buffalo, when hunting them on the open plains was feasible, without actually risking our lives.

It wasn't like hunting deer in San Diego County. That's some of the most difficult hunting there is, believe it or not. When I bought a tag this year the woman at Fish and Game smiled and thanked me for the donation. Few hunters get a deer here, though a fair number of us go and try. Well over 90% of tags are never turned in, this year, due to fire closures, it was probably more than 95%.

The buffalo hunting was, however, a lot harder hunting than hunting deer in many areas in the US, where people commonly get a deer on opening day, and go back and buy more tags.

It was probably a lot like it was in the 1870s. The buffalo we were after roamed free, and were only confined to the ranch we were on by rickety fences on the perimeter. They weren't in some high-fence enclosure, and we had to go searching for them over a lot of land area. It wasn't a "gimme" and it took us several days to actually get a shot at them. It was cold, we lived outdoors in single-digit temperatures, and it was a great experience. But buffalo is a species of wild cattle that lives in the open in the plains and rolling hills. They're not some elusive animal that lives deep in the woods, and they never were.

Now, had we done it in a half day, with scoped magnums, and let someone else do all the butchering, that would have been a "canned hunt", though there's nothing wrong with shooting your own meat IMO. I will just say that there's a better way to have the experience, and I was lucky enough to get invited along, even if I grumbled at the PITA of loading the .45-70 cartridges. They had to be specifically fitted to each different gun, and that led to much frustration.

What we experienced was a taste of 1870s buffalo hunting, and I have no regrets (and a lot of great meat!).

[mwpslp]

I saw your post previously ArmedBear. Would have loved to try that for the "authenticity" of it but time would not allow it right now for me. Also I'm not sure my daughter would have been up to all of that either, but glad to hear your trip was a success as well.

[ArmedBear]

It's worth doing, if you have the time and are in a position to do it that way.:)

Either way, hunting buffalo that ranges free on a big ranch not a "gimme" like some people think, and 10,000 acres might be a suburban lot in Texas, but it's still a LOT of land to cover, looking for animals that are on the move. Glad to hear you and your daughter had a great time!

[H&Hhunter]

Out here we hunt units these untis are huge, no blinds no truck trails everywhere, logging roads sometimes.

Oregonhunter,

I am from New Mexico, I was a guide and outfitter in NM for nearly 10 years. I've lived and hunted in much of the west including Oregon, I've lived and hunted in Alaska. I currently live and hunt in Colorado.

I also am used to hunting limitless public land. There are some private ranches in Texas that are bigger than some hunting units out west. I hunt on one that is just under 200 square miles and is a cattle ranch. everything on it is wild and the only fences are normal old 5 strand barb wire just like the stuff you find on public land. In fact the primary difference in hunting this over anywhere else in the west is the lack of the crowds and the drunken inept morons you tend to find on public land during hunting season.

What I am saying is that you don't have the foggiest idea about hunting in Texas when you make a statement like you did. I am guessing from your post that you haven't hunted outside of Oregon very much either. maybe you should take a road trip next year. Broaden your horizons a bit.

In any case to try and trounce on a little girls first hunt experience is beyond the pale. It is simply bad manners and it strikes me wrong in so many different ways.:fire:

[308win]

the drunken inept morons you tend to find on public land during hunting season.

I thought we only had those on public hunting areas in Ohio. Unfortunately, we have to take the bad with the best we can get.

[eliphalet]

What I am saying is that you don't have the foggiest idea about hunting in Texas Gosh Who wants to that lives outside Texas or has too?
I for one doubt I ever will either.
I refuse to pay like a common serf/peasant to be allowed to hunt on private land. Makes me think of stuff I read about Europe centuries ago.
No wonder Robin Hood was so popular.

There are tens of thousands of hunting ranches in Texas.
And how much public land for a young or not so well to do guy to use?

And guys ask why there's not as many new or young hunters now days. Duh! suppose cost and available land might have something to do with it?

Gezzzz. I give up!

[H&Hhunter]

Gezzzz. I give up!

eliphalet,

Me too. ;)

Merry Christmas and happy hunting. Wherever you choose to do so.

[oregonhunter]

Making camp in areas were it takes a good days hike to get to, such as in the upper alsea or santiam units, you avoid all those drunkin lunatics. public land that is easily accesed by 4x4's is were you find the drunken a-holes sighting in their rifles near camp.

H&H I have nothing to say, grizzly adams. I'm just a common man.

[eliphalet]

Me too.

Merry Christmas and happy hunting. Wherever you choose to do so.

Yes I agree, not the time for such trivia, and to everyone here

Merry Christmas

[H&Hhunter]

H&H I have nothing to say, grizzly adams. I'm just a common man.

XXXXOOOO...;)

Merry Christmas Oregonhunter. May the hunting gods favor you, may the wind be in your face and the sun at your back, your bullets fly true and your blade always hold an edge.

[ArmyAviator]

mwpslp...are you able to disclose where you went? How might one of us find the outfitter in OK?

--Bryant

[cobrian45]

I would PM him ArmyAviator. It sounds like he and the owner of the place got along quite well since he is going back soon. I think he'd be glad to hook you up.

[maximus2161]

Ok so when are you having me over for steaks? ;) I am only 15 min away.

[Sunray]

Hunting buffalo for her first hunt. Fabulous. The local tree rats too small for her? Snicker. She'll remember that forever. No matter what else she ever does.
Buffalo is great eating. Extremely lean. Cook it slow and not to well done. There are lots of recipes on-line.

[samsquanch]

Amazing trip, even better to share with your daughter..