[Hoplophile]

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn20-e.htm

Seeing as how this is probably the most beautiful weapon I have ever seen, I'd like to own one. This is a problem mainly because what I want to own is a silenced, flameless, selective-fire sniper rifle which can penetrate a bulletproof vest at 400 meters. Needless to say, I imagine I'd have to jump through some hoops for that.

Firstly is the problem of legality of ownership. I know suppressed weapons are legal (for a 200 dollar tax, and you need your FFL, or something), but what about selective fire weapons? Don't I need a sheriff's signature or something? I'm in Florida, by the way. Is it "one or the other"?

Secondly is the problem of actually acquiring one of these weapons. I assume there are importation restrictions on it, but I wouldn't even know where to go for one anyway. It's not like they sell them at Wal-Mart. Is it possible to import such a thing? What if I legally owned one, elsewhere, in another country? Could I bring it to the US then?

For the record, I am NOT saying I intend to do this, just asking about whether it would be legal under any circumstances. So, yeah, don't arrest me. Plus, when you really think about it, the potential for abuse of such a weapon is minimal. They're so rare, and they use such funky ammunition (9x39mm). There can't be more than a few in the country...as if the ballistics lab would have any problem figuring out where such a round came from, if such a gun was used in a crime? They essentially have your name and address written all over every round.

Anyway, I can dream on at least, right? Anyone else really love this weapon?

[General Geoff]

You'll want to check and see if there are any in the NFA machine gun registry. I'll bet that even if there are, you'll be spending $10,000+ for one.

[geekWithA.45]

Wicked long story short:

In 1934, before the reinterpretation of the commerce clause that enabled congress to do whatever they wanted, it was believed that it was necessary to tax firearms in order to bring them under federal jurisdiction.

Thus, the machine gun registry was created.

In 1986, just as congress was about to pass the FOPA (firearm owners protection act), which repealed the most flagrant abuses of the 1968 gun control act, a "midnight rider" was attached which closed the machine gun registry, meaning no new fully automatic firearms could be added.

Therefore, the list of machine guns that could be legally transferred to civilians became finite, and the crappiest old Vietnam era m-16, worth about $400, got a price boost to $18,000.


So, if the gun you want exists on the registry, you'll have to find it, and convince the current owner to sell it to you, after you leap through all the flaming hoops to pay the $200 tranfer tax.

[armoredman]

... what I want to own is a silenced, flameless, selective-fire sniper rifle which can penetrate a bulletproof vest at 400 meters...
And just why would you want a semi auto suppressed rifle specifically capable of penetrating body armor? Your list of questions reads like the Brady playbook.
And no, you may not import any firearms into the US.

[zoom6zoom]

if the gun you want exists on the registry, you'll have to find it,
The linked article says it's been in use since the 80's so it's unlikely any made it in in the short period before the registry closed.

It's also my understanding that since it's both select fire and suppressed, it would require two tax stamps. At least that's what I was told when inspecting a Sterling with integral suppressor.

[Hoplophile]

*sigh* Oh well. Maybe Ron Paul will vote to repeal it or something. I doubt eliminating the BATF would be a difficult sell to the general public, as they're such an ineffective bureaucracy. Gun rights are also a hard sell, unfortunately.

Could anyone point me to where I might search the registry?

[DoubleTapDrew]

Didn't the '68 GCA ban the importation of firearms that didn't meet the arbitrary "sporting purposes" criteria? If you combine that with the fact that it was behind the iron curtain those would probably be extremely rare if not non-existant in the country.

Could anyone point me to where I might search the registry?
I don't think that information is public. I hope it's not. I could see one of those anti newspapers posting names and addresses of NFA owners right next to the CCW holders. You could call the ATF and ask nicely though and see what they say.

[Telperion]

Almost certainly there are none in this country. Drew is right that title II guns have not importable since 1968.

Also, I find the claims about this rifle/cartridge's performance to be a bit fantastical. A 9mm bullet that is subsonic at the muzzle is able to penetrate armor at 400m? I'd like to see tests of that.

[GTSteve03]

Also, I find the claims about this rifle/cartridge's performance to be a bit fantastical. A 9mm bullet that is subsonic at the muzzle is able to penetrate armor at 400m? I'd like to see tests of that.
Well, considering the article mentions that the 9mm bullets fired are about 16 grams, which equals out to 247 grains, those bullets are about 100 grains heavier than the heaviest 9mm pistol round. I imagine those bullets have excellent terminal ballistics and could in fact make it out to 300-400 meters effectively.

That does look like an awesome rifle, too bad it's both a machine gun and a Soviet weapon, making it doubly-unlikely that one will ever appear on our shores if the current gun control legislation stays in place. :mad:

[outofbattery]

If there are any in the US,they're probably owned by some OGA or are at some Special Forces school for weapons familiarization and they most likely don't want to share their toy.

[boonie]

You could probably get a semi-auto copy, though you may have trouble finding properly licensed people willing (and able) to help you.

If I'm not mistaken, licensed dealers can get imported post-86 dealer sample machineguns. (ie, SIG 55X, H&K guns). Some of these dealers are willing to torch a nice gun and sell it as a parts kit.

If you could find a dealer/importer willing to help, he may be able to bring in a dealer-sample Vintorez. (if the Russians will sell him one, and the ATF will let him get it).

Then, he would sell it to you as a parts kit. He would need to keep the receiver, suppressor, and I believe the barrel. (I don't know how the new imported barrel thing works). It may be possible to have these demilled (torch cut) and transfered to you, if not, the dealer/importer will need to hang onto them.

Then, you would need to duplicate the receiver, barrel and suppressor, as well as several other parts. (needs to be semi-auto, and have 10 or fewer imported parts to comply with 922(r), plus $200 tax for suppressor)

If you get the torch cut receiver/bbl/suppressor, it would be fairly simple to duplicate it (you could find a gunsmith/machinist to do this if you aren't equipped for it).
If you can't get the torched parts, you would need to arrange something with the dealer/importer to get the parts duplicated.

Basically,
1) Find someone willing and able to help import the rifle or its parts. This may be difficult. If I understand right, post-86 dealer samples are a hassle to deal with, and importing a rifle for that purpose is probably a hassle. Every step of this process is probably a mountain of paperwork.
2) Get the rifle or its parts (as many as you can) into the country. This may be difficult or impossible for your dealer/importer.
3) Demill rifle or parts.
4) Duplicate parts, rebuild as legal semi-auto.

Getting one into the country would be the most difficult part of this process.

You know the saying, "if you have to ask, you can't afford it".

It does look like a cool rifle and I'd love to have one, but it's pretty unlikely that it will happen.

You should check out the large caliber AR type rifles.
I think some of them are intended to be suppressed and have similar performance, but are more available.

[General Geoff]

^^agree, it'd be less hassle to build up an AR-15 in .300 Whisper, and then get a registered select fire sear/trigger assembly and suppressor for it down the line. It would pretty much accomplish the same mission as a VSS Vintorez, but be cheaper and easier to do (as well as find parts for) in the long run.

[akodo]

Geoff has it.

It is nothing special really. To be as quiet as possible, you don't want to break the sound barrier. Of course, most handgun chamberings don't, so many people turned to putting 45acp into supressed boltguns. Of course, they don't pack much whallop vs a real rifle, or even an intermediate.

The next choice is obvious, get a very very heavy projectile, one that will retain it's energy well quite a bit farther down range, even if it has a trajectory like a rainbow, or like an old 45-70.

I hear ruger's 44magnum bolt action carbine is popular to be given an integral supressor and loaded with very heavy 44 mag projectiles and to the same thing as this russian gun. Sure, it is not semiauto let alone full auto, but no need for that! In fact, not worrying about cycling the action eliminates one more noise source