I have been strugling with extractor issues for a while, I just realized it yesterday after doing testing and taking notes. I though it was just my bad reloads, during a match you just clear the jam without much attention to what type it is. It ends up most are FTE causing Double feeds.
However, I experienced more malfunctions with longer length ammo in my 220 Equinox. (230 Raineer RN)
OAL ROUNDS # of Malf
1.23 50 1
1.25 50 3
1.275 60 3
1.285 50 3 (would not fit in mag properly)
Also did 10 rounds of each in my 220C3 with zero malfunctions
Could these longer OAL aggravate the extractor issue? I dont want to send it to Sig if its something I am doing. I have already tried heavier loads and tighter crimps with Lee dies. Using a heavier load (6.5 Unique 230 RN) has helped a bit.
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December 23, 2007, 02:26 PM
Any problems with factory ammo?
December 23, 2007, 02:34 PM
My 16 year old W. German stamped slide P220 is pretty much 100% with any ammo I can stuff in the mag that will cycle the slide. I use various 200 grain cast bullets for 95% of my shooting, and it does seem the pistol likes OAL shorter rather than longer due to the mags. This is ironic, as the pistol has a beautifully long, well finished throat that shoots cast exceptionally. A bullet that has worked for me since 1991 has been a Lee 200 grain TL sized .453-.454" seated at 1.20" and a light taper crimp. This bullet has a short nose, and somewhat long shank for a 200 grain bullet, and seems like a good match for the P220 for reasons mentioned above. I run this bullet from just over 700 fps up to 1000 fps, and it's accurate across the range with no leading.
Depending on load, I will use either a Wolff 16 lb recoil spring, or the current std 20 lb "green spring" and either deliver 100% reliability with the original extractor/ejector with many thousands of rounds down range.
Not that I can prove anything about current/US German hybrid P220's, but the buzz seems as if the newer models, especially the compact are having a lot of problems as you describe.
December 23, 2007, 02:52 PM
What load are you using when the rounds FTE?
brickeyee's question is very important. It will give the best clue as to whether it is your reloads or not.
As far as the OAL goes (over-all-length, I doubt that America OnLine would have much to do with your extraction problem ;) ), intuitively I would have to say it wouldn't affect extraction to any degree. Of course, the OAL will definitely affect feeding, but once the round has fired, the cases are all the same extraction wise.
Until more info is presented, I would guess that your rounds might be a bit underpowered and the slide isn't making a fully powered excursion. Or you have the wrong recoil spring installed for that load.
December 23, 2007, 03:08 PM
Loaded length may effect feeding, but it has no effect on extraction or ejection.
I'd say too light loads, or too heavy a spring for the loads you are shooting.
I'd guess the higher failure rate with longer seated bullets is due to less pressure.
(More case volume with less seating depth)
The other possibility is you are leaving a slight case mouth bell due to not enough taper crimp, and the rim of the empty is catching on the next round in the mags case mouth and getting knocked off the extractor hook before it gets to the ejector.
You also might want to slightly chamfer the outside of the cases to make sure there is no sharp square edge on the mouth to catch the rim of the empty.
At the last steel match I shot new Speer Lawman, about 150 rounds. I only had 1 maybe 2 malfunctions. Your right it could be underpowered loads. When I was using 4.5 of HP38 I had more malfunctions. When I switched to 6.5 of Unique it got better. Maybe I should bump it up a bit more. I dont want to mess with springs.
December 24, 2007, 07:49 PM
Maybe I should bump it up a bit more.Careful there!
6.5 Unique is a Maximum Load with a 230 grain Jacketed bullet. It is also the military equilivent hard-ball load.
If you are using Ranier plated bullets, you are already pushing it to the wall.
I'd think you have something else going on there.
What Lube are you using on the slide rails?
Try something else slicker, or more of what you are using.
See this test:
I am using Militec. My gun us well lubed (not over lubed). I am making some new ammo at 1.230, I will see if that help. Maybe running 100 rounds through my compact and 100 through my Equinox with the same mags and seeing if they both malfunction.
I dont know what else to try besides sending my 220 back to the mothership for repair. Pretty much at my witts end.
December 24, 2007, 10:21 PM
over-all-length, I doubt that America OnLine would have much to do with your extraction problem
lol, yeah, when I saw the thread title I first thought... AOL the internet provider?
thought it might be a Legal & Political thread
December 25, 2007, 01:10 PM
Exactly what is your gun doing?
Is it leaving an empty stuck in the chamber with the rim torn off?
Empty partially extracted then put back in the chamber?
Empty extracted partway out, and next round jammed into it?
Given enough details we might figure this out eventually!
It should feed from 1.20 to 1.260. Mine like 1.23 SWC, HP, and 1.25 FMJ. Make some dummy loads going from high to low. Measure factory ammo that works.
December 25, 2007, 07:47 PM
Shot 50 more rounds today at 1.233. Zero malfunctions, maybe because it was xmas or due to the shorter oal. The gun is leaving an empty stuck in the chamber with no damage to rim. Happens with random mags. Will test 100 more rounds double tapping before sending to Sig.
I appreciate the interest and the help. Happy Holidays.
December 26, 2007, 02:59 PM
Well, the only way for that to happen is the slide is short-stroking.
Any chance at all you are getting powder charge variations in your reloads? (Some light, some heavy, some just right?)
I think for some reason the slide is failing to open all the way occasionally and stuffing the empty right back in the chamber.
If it opened all the way and the case hit the ejector, it would also pick up another round out of the mag and jam it into the back of the empty still in the chamber.
Of course the other possibility is the extractor hook is just completely failing to catch the rim. If it were slipping off the rim, you would surely find some evidence of it by looking at the cases. Bur's sharp edge where the hook slipped off, etc.