Best bullet weight in 45 ACP for SD?

[Timradcliffe345]

What would you all rate as the best bullet weight in the 45 ACP cal for SD. Feel free to vote in the poll.

[LeonCarr]

I have a buddy that carries a Sig 220 .45 as a duty weapon. He was asked by one of his co-workers why he carried a .45 over the .40 that most officers carry.

He said because you can't shoot 45 caliber 230 grain bullets in a .40 :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[wally]

Although I'm shooting a lot more .40S&W lately because of all the free brass I can pick up at the range and reload, I really only like the .40S&W in sub-compacts where the velocity loss in sub 4" barrels with .45ACP could lead to inadequate penetration.

The 180gr .40 has the same sectional density as the 230gr .45.

--wally.

[Timradcliffe345]

Would a 200 gr JHP 'open up' easier than a 230 gr if all other parameters are equal?

[DENALI]

I just posted somewhere else about this and I can't remember where. At any rate I took a 6-point whitetail with a Springfield loaded model and 200gr Hornady TAP +P and overall I'd rate it very effective as the pistol took the little buck down within just a few yards of where he got hit. The thing is we recovered the bullet in his opposite shoulder after having passed through his lungs and there was no deformation at all, none! I'm curious if anybody else has seen this type of performance out of this load. Regardless it worked very well and I wouldent think it would work any less on a BG.......

[Timradcliffe345]

..and there was no deformation at all, none!

Are you saying the bullet did not undergo any deformation at all? I was under the assumption that you would want the HP to open up. Thanks.

[esq_stu]

Depends on the gun and the bullet design/velocity when fired in that gun.

I'd specify a bullet design with the weight for a particular gun. I'm not gonna vote b/c each of my .45s likes a different load.

[rcmodel]

Given the .45's somewhat pedestrian velocity, I don't trust JHP to always work as planned.

So, I use 230 JHP or hardball.

Regardless of whether the HP opens or not, it's hard to argue with a big heavy bullet!

If it does open, great!
But if it doesn't, you still hit'em with a big chunk of Heavy Metal.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[DENALI]

Aside from some scratching of the jacket the bullet was as it was when loaded in the mag..

[HM2PAC]

It's why I love a .45ACP in FMJ. HP's of all calibers may or may not open up, but a .45 WILL NOT SHRINK.:neener:

[gcrookston]

Here's what I like about the .45 acp 230 gr. fmj: It makes a very big hole. It packs a lot of energy. It is subsonic and a suppressor's dream. The bore diameter is very impressive when one is pointed at you. I still have a magazine of Black Talons thinking that if I ever need them, they'll make a bigger hole. But since 999 of 1,000 rounds of .45acp I've shot has been .230 gr. FMJ, my line of expertise would be crossed if I speculated or commented further :uhoh:

[possum]

i like 230gr. maybe it just makes me feel more of a man thee bigger the bullets i shoot! no reallt though it is important to get what works best, accurate, reliable and controlable to the end user when it comes to ammo, just like guns. try out a few loads and see what you like best andhe weapon performs best with and then you will have your answer. any route that you go you are gonna hev great performance and massive wound channels.

[Choclabman]

Love the 230gr +P HST out of a P220.

[wally]

Would a 200 gr JHP 'open up' easier than a 230 gr if all other parameters are equal?

No if all other parameters like velocity are equal. They will open up easier or more reliably in general because you get a higher velocity with the lighter bullet, but the starting sectional density is lower and gets much lower with expansion, so it could be recipe for inadequate penetration despite the pretty mushrooms you see in photos.

All things being equal, penetration is proportional to sectional density times velocity. Nothing remains equal at impact, the velocity slows and the sectional density decreases if you get expansion. I rule out any round that doesn't get at least 12" penetration in standard gel test in guns with the same barrel length as mine. I prefer 14-16" penetration because of the variations in velocities within the same gun and especially between different guns.

--wally.

[Pumpkinheaver]

I like 200gr and up. I did keep my Kimber loaded with 165gr Hydra shoks when I lived in an apartment to reduce penetration.

[Snapping Twig]

I use a Lee mould to cast a 230g TC which I feel is the best shape and weight overall.

Truncated cone is fantastic for feeding, but the large metplat is efficient for transmitting shock and 230g helps to penetrate. You could probably hunt wild boar and deer quite well with this bullet.

[thorazine]

It's why I love a .45ACP in FMJ. HP's of all calibers may or may not open up, but a .45 WILL NOT SHRINK.

Nor will a .45ACP in JHP shrink. =/






No vote for 230GR +P?

[HM2PAC]

thorazine wrote:Nor will a .45ACP in JHP shrink. =/

I shouldn't have added the FMJ part, JHP's won't shrink either.:banghead:

As far as +P goes, I'm about to order some Buffalo Bore in 230gr.:evil:

[JPP]

I like 200gr +P

Seem to have impressive numbers.......
Having said that, I'd hate to get hit with ANYTHING .45!

JP

[Timradcliffe345]

The consensus seems to be anything greater or equal to 200 is the way to go. How much extra uumph do you get going from 230 to 230 +P? How noticeable is the increase in recoil?

[Geno]

I vote for 230 JHP. These were Win Per Def 230 grain, JHPs recovered from a nice boar. I would post the 3rd bullet fired, but it completely penetrated the boar. Weapon used: Colt WWI Reproduction. Also, it was by error that I used Per Def ammo. I misread the box and thought them for hunting. However, given that one exited, and the performance of the other two, I feel it safe to assume that they would stop an attack:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/HPIM2617.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/HPIM2624.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/HPIM2627.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Russian2.jpg

[moxie]

Agree 100% with esq_stu. I like 185 gr. bullets for lighter guns with short barrels. Out of a Star PD or Officers model, for example, I like Rem. Golden Saber 185 +P. Out of a 5" 1911 or a 625 I prefer any of the newer 230 JHPs, such as Hydra-Shok or Golden Saber.

[tblt]

A heavy bullet is not always better.I't is slower and will expand less.I want a bullet to expand a lot and not just pass thru,that way your target will absorb all the energy whitch will result in better stoping power.

[dragonfirex]

I like the 45 230" ,yes it's slow ,no its not the best for personal protection ,but all in all anyone that takes one of them to the chest or any where else on the body for that matter most likely will not want to argue about it.

[Timradcliffe345]

Can anyone with personal experience recommend a good quality 200 gr JHP brand. Either regular or +P. Thanks.

[VARifleman]

Would a 200 gr JHP 'open up' easier than a 230 gr if all other parameters are equal?
As mentioned it depends on the bullet design. For a Hornady XTP, the minimum expansion velocity for the 200 grain is about 50-100 fps less than the 230 grain. But then when you get to 185, it goes back up.

Tim, try speer, double tap, and anyother premimum maker. See what's accurate and reliable.

[Just Jim]

The best combination I have found is a lead semi wadcutter that is 200 grains and a powder charge of ww 231 that is 5.6 grains. This is the most accurate load I have ever shot and it works in most any 45acp I have owned and in particular 45acp revolvers. The edge of the bullet cuts perfect holes in paper and any game you hit bleeds out quickly.

It is a load I achieved a C class in ipsic with and useing a stock gun.

jj

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Those 230gn Win HP's have shown me consistent weight retention and expansion. They feed like they're a RN.

I guess you could say that I'd bet my life on them.

I don't care what bullet is used. The .45 will not shrink!:D

-Steve

[Geno]

JackOfAll...:

So true. The reliable feeding is amzing when one considers that the hollow point measures very nearly 9mm in itself. :) The rounds pictured expanded to nearly 1", and retained nearly all of the 230 grains. I have seen no reason to switch.

Doc2005

[Timradcliffe345]

Doc 2005:

Any good source online for those Winchester 230 grainers? Id like to give them a try. Thanks.

[wally]

Did it really take three .45ACP shots to stop a boar maybe half your body weight and size? Dont' bode so well for dealing with a crazed druggie bent on hurting you and yours!

That's why at home, the handgun on the nightstand is to just give me something in my hand on the way to the 12 ga loaded with 00 buck.

--wally.

[Timradcliffe345]

Did it really take three .45ACP shots to stop a boar maybe half your body weight and size?

Boars have a reputation to be hard to kill, especially with a handgun. I wouldn't draw any definite conclusions from the abovementioned hunt. In tight quarters a handgun may actually be preferable to a shotgun. Again, each to his own.

[unreal45]

The stellar reputation of the 45 ACP was built around the 230 gr. bullet.

[Rustynuts]

Can't go wrong with Double Tap, those things KICK! More like +P+ than +P! I also like Federal HST (but not in my 1911's). The HST is fairly pointy with large hollow, so doesn't feed well in my 1911 (at least one of them)

[Ala Dan]

I prefer Hornady's 200 grain T.A.P. JHP's for personal defense; although I
have NO stat's or performance charts to back it up. However, it is
designed to insure reliable feeding in all kind's of .45 ACP's~! ;)

[wally]

Boars have a reputation to be hard to kill,

So do crazed druggies.


In tight quarters a handgun may actually be preferable to a shotgun.

That's why I will have both. If my alarm goes off, the handgun gets me to the shotgun, then I put on the body armor if time permits, Meanwhile, my wife hunkers down in the safe room with her pistol and puts on her body armor. The alarm has the police on the way so I've no need to maneuver, I'll stay in my position until the police arrive, ready to shoot if necessary. Strategically placed infrared video cameras should give me good situational awareness from where I hunker down.

Fortunately, never had to use the plan, but I think we are as prepared as can be. I'd prefer my wife be comfortable using a shotgun instead, but she just isn't.

--wally.

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

There is no comparison of a big boar to a human. No matter how big the guy. Humans are compartitively frail. Drug crazed or not. Just like any Whitetail that's been shot that doesn't know he's dead yet. -There's your drug crazed human. These WinHPs do perform quite well and can be loaded as hot or more than the DoubleTap performance loads.

Last place I've seen them available was at Midway dot Kom.

Doc is right on about the size of the hollow point. And I've seen so many hp acp bullets that have lead exposed that do not feed reliably. Are you willing to stake your life on one of those.

I'm not kidding, these things feed like a Round Nose, and expand to twice their cal with weight retention and penetration.

-Steve

[Timradcliffe345]

Thank you gentlemen for all your advice. I think I will go the 230 gr route. Now all I need to do is find a reliable HP that will feed in my gun. Merry Christmas to you all.

[The Bushmaster]

What would you say to a 185 grain Hornady XTP JHP at 900 fps +/- a few...?

[Timradcliffe345]

What would you say to a 185 grain Hornady XTP JHP at 900 fps +/- a few...?


How about CORBON JHP?

45 AUTO +P 185 GR. JHP 1150 FPS 543 FTLBS 5.0 " barrel

[VARifleman]

Bushmaster, I'd say it'd be strange to trust your life to an IPSC load. That'd be a fast shooting load though, however, I like to have 190 pf defense loads.

[Noxx]

I prefer 230 simply because it has such a long and well defined history of being effective. Other rounds my work better or worse, but I know the 230 works and is effective, and that's enough for me.

[eldon519]

Three loads I've been impressed with are Winchester 230 gr. SXTs, Corbon 185gr. +P DPXs, and 230-gr FMJ-SWC handloads using Magtech bullets.

The 230-gr SXTs expand to about .7" diameter and get in the neighborhood of 13-14" of penetration pretty consistently.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/230%20grain%20Winchester%20SXT.html

The 185-gr DPX rounds expand to about .6" diameter and in this test, most exited the block at 15.3" of penetration. That's pretty serious, especially for the bullet weight.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/185%20grain%20+P%20Cor-Bon%20DPX.html

The 230-gr FMJ-SWC is my woods load. In case I run into something big like a black bear, and I'm only armed with my 1911, these should get great penetration while destroying more tissue than a FMJ-RN.

[Timradcliffe345]

The 185 gr DPX looks promising. Any results from the streets with this round or any other DPX round for that matter? I have always heard good things about CorBon ammunition performance. Unfortunately this kind of performance comes at a pretty high price.

[meef]

Unfortunately this kind of performance comes at a pretty high price.Then again, consider the price you'd pay if your chosen self defense load performed poorly when/if called upon.

[S&Wfan]

A 4lb. hammer hits harder too . . . than a finishing hammer.

My choice . . . Big hole + Most weight.

[ArfinGreebly]

Big hole + Most weight.
Big, heavy, slow round for home defense?

Sounds like you need The Buick Solution.

Just remember the "ground-floor-only" limitation.

[OhioPaints]

I too am not convinced that JHPs will expand and penetrate from shorter barrels. I carry Speer Gold Dots in my Sig P220, but FMJ in my 4" Kimber.

Although I think the .45 is a fairly good round for self defense, I'm starting to think about a 10mm 1911.

Ken

[brownie0486]

230 grain standard velocity for me.

Usually a Win Ranger T 230 gr HP but I'll consider the HST and the Speer GD bonded bullets as well for SD.

Brownie

[SoonerSP101]

there's no 180 option

[Timradcliffe345]

there's no 180 option

Im sorry there isnt a 180 gr option. Im not sure if 5 gr is going to make that much of a difference in a SD scenario.