[Boregard]

Hello!

I've come down with the derringer fever. I love the look and feel of some of the mighty mice I've seen out there. But, in reading through a few old threads, I found a great many criticizms of the classic and modern derringers.

I've looked at products by Cobra, American Derringer, and a few others...
But was particularly taken by the Bond Arms Snakeslayer IV.
Here's the crux... The ONLY reason I have to own a sidearm, is for rattlers.
My girl and I plink out in the high dessert // low hills, and occassionally up in the mountains. The catch is that anything I buy has to be CA legal.

I'm not sure the .410 is legal here... I was thinking perhaps a smaller cartridge in a shotshell... for rattlesnakes at <5yrds, drawn from the hip or thigh. I know they even make a .22 which I can buy rat-shot for, but I'm not sure thats sufficient for our needs. Any advice???... other than "buy a snub nose revolver" (I'm thinking of picking up a single six anyway).
Bond Arms Snakeslayer IV
http://www.bondarms.com/gunSSlarge.gif

THANX AGAIN ALL!... and happy hollidays!

P.S. --> I just found that CCI makes many other calibers in a shotshell... What about a 9mm?

[KevininPa]

I have no idea if that gun is legal in your state. But I will tell you that the Snakeslayer is a terrific derringer. That little extension on the grip does alot for control. I bought a regular set of grips for better concealability in the pocket and couldn't shoot it worth a crap with those on it. I thought about purchasing the longer barrel , but I think I'll wait till they make a 4.5.

[Dienekes]

With luck and a good night's sleep you should get over it. I have owned three Remington-style derringers over the years. The first was a West German .22 in the early 60s, which actually wasn't half bad and even worked every time. Just not with any real accuracy. The second was somewhat like it but better made and in .357 Magnum. It was a nasty little thing and only tolerable with .38 Specials. It needed frequent repairs and about 25 years ago I put it into a shadow box where it remains to this day. The third was the genuine article, a Remington in .41 RF but with a cracked hinge. A gunsmith friend of mine offered to weld the broken hinge but as he warned me it might, it went "poof" and the frame became a hopeless puddle of metal right there.

Just the other day my wife looked at one of the Cobra ones in .38 Special. She has her own nice guns, and after trying the 16 pound trigger pull on this one she decided she didn't need it after all. Frankly I was relieved as I figured she would fall out of love with it pretty fast...and I didn't want to have to work on it.

IMHO derringers are best suited to be wall decorations.

Suggest you go find a nice used S&W Model 10 and a box of shot loads for it. You'll get a lot more for your money.

[elrod]

Or go with this;
http://www.taurususa.com/products/gunselector-results.cfm?series=41

[spiroxlii]

Those O/U derringers like the Bond Arms ones have caught my eye too, and I see some positive reviews about them, but my one and only derringer has left a bad taste in my mouth. Granted, it's a crappy SxS Cobray/Leinad Model DD (http://www.littlegun.be/derringer/a%20cobray%20gb.htm), so maybe that's why I hate it so much.

I love the idea of having one of these derringers that can handle .45LC or .410 bore shot shells, but the one I have right now functions very roughly, and the design involves angled firing pins with a selector switch mounted on the hammer so you can decide which barrel's firing pin you want the hammer to strike. I assume that the firing pins are supposed to move freely, but they don't. In fact, they often seem to get stuck forward, which worries me when I break it open to load new shells and then snap it closed. If the pins refuse to go back into their channels, then I'm snapping the derringer shut with the pins protruding against the primers. The trigger seems to "stick" quite frequently. I may strip the thing down and see if a thorough cleaning helps (I doubt it will).

[AntiqueCollector]

The third was the genuine article, a Remington in .41 RF but with a cracked hinge. A gunsmith friend of mine offered to weld the broken hinge but as he warned me it might, it went "poof" and the frame became a hopeless puddle of metal right there.

Did you shoot smokeless powder in that thing? Wow, what a shame it went...

[weisse52]

I had the urge to buy one a few years ago. I remember it was from a company out of Texas. It was suppose to be a very good company with a good rep. Owned it for nine months, they had it seven months I had it two. It did cure my urge....

[Shawnee]

The sight or mention of derringers always reminds me of something important my Dad told me years ago about fishing lures. To quote him....

"Every fishing lure has served its' primary purpose the instant it is sold." :eek:

[loop]

Nothing specific about derringers, but I've shot an awful lot of rattlesnakes.
Absolute minimum caliber to be sure of a one-shot kill of a rattler with snakeshot in a pistol round is .45.
A .38 will kill them right away, but you have to get too close.
The capsule that holds the shot just doesn't have the capacity for enough shot to guarantee neutralizing the target at close range until you get to .45 (I've never used a .40 on rattlers).
I lived in Southern Arizona where the diamondbacks can reach 10 feet. They can strike 2/3s of their body length. That means you want to take your shot about seven feet from the head. Only a .45 can do that with regularity.
I now live in NW Arizona where we have the most deadly rattlesnake in N. America, the Mojave green. It has a combination of neuro-toxic and hemo-toxic venom. It shuts down the nervous system and attacks the cell membrane in the blood as well. The d'back is only hemo-toxic.
The greens only get to be about four feet long, but if they strike and deliver a full load you won't make it to the hospital (especially here where its a half-hour drive to the nearest town).
Come spring (first day the thermometer tops 70) I go to carrying a .45 with a brand new shot shell as the first round.
Bear in mind too, greens and d'backs can be aggressive. Keep a clear path behind you in case you have to backpedal.

[Boregard]

Now that is some very specific... very useful info. I'm simply dealing with your run o' the mill rattlers... probably better dealt with via a nice walking staff... but I'd rather be safe than sorry... always. Thank you so much for the help.

[arizona98tj]

loop......which .45 cartridge are you referring to...... .45 Colt or .45 ACP?

It's been a couple of decades since I actively reloaded for .45 ACP with #9 shot.

[loop]

Referring specifically to .45 acp. I narrowed my reloading in larger calibers to .40 S&W and .45 acp years ago. Even my big revolver is a .45 acp...
Shouldn't make much difference as the shot cups for .45 Colt are much larger than the ones for .38 or 9mm.
Can't make a comparison to .40 because I've never used shot in .40.

[M2 Carbine]

In the last forty years I've killed a BUNCH of Rattlesnakes and Copperheads with 38 Special shot shells in the J Frame 2 inch S&W.
Every summer the first two rounds in a 38 that I carry around the place are shot shells.
About 12 foot is the max one shot kill distance.

I've got a Bond Derringer in 45ACP. I could load shot shells for it but I don't bother.

I've loaded many shot shells up to 44 Mag but it's hard to beat the little J Frame for all around usefulness.
I've only had one Rattlesnake that didn't drop with one shot and that was a BIG snake.

While brush hogging a neighbors field I shot a Copperhead from about 15 feet from the tractor as I went by.
The neighbor was real impressed with me shooting a snake from a moving tractor.
I didn't have the heart to tell him I was using shot.:D

Forget 22 Ratshot.
I gave up on it one day when I shot a Copperhead 5 times and it was still trying to get away.

[DrLaw]

While brush hogging a neighbors field I shot a Copperhead from about 15 feet from the tractor as I went by.

Hear that noise? That's John Wayne spinning in his grave at the image of somebody on a tractor (not a horse) shooting a snake with a derringer (not a Colt). :neener:

The Doc is roflmao now. :D

[Golddog]

Fight the urge. Virtually anything, including a rock or stick, is more accurate than a derringer. Every one I've shot avoided paper at 15 feet. Use a decent small revolver instead.

I've killed many a copperhead and was never tempted to use a gun, since ricochets at snake distances could be more dangerous to pets, companions, and self than the damned reptiles. Rocks and clubs work quite well.

[weisse52]

I've killed many a copperhead and was never tempted to use a gun, since ricochets at snake distances could be more dangerous to pets, companions, and self than the damned reptiles. Rocks and clubs work quite well.

OR, just tie the derringer to a stick and beat it with that.
Can you tell I did not have a good experience? I think you could have better choices for shooting a snake than with a derringer.

But if you want a derringer by all means get yourself one. as I have said before, most of what we buy is really about having fun. I carry a NAA mini 22mag. So who am I to judge your choice.

[spiroxlii]

Yeah... I must have some kind of disease. But if I do, I'm in good company with the rest of you.

I have a derringer and hate it. It's a low quality one, but I probably wouldn't like a more expensive one any better.

I'm probably still going to end up buying another one at some point anyway. And I'll probably acquire more "impractical" guns for my collection too.

What have I gotten myself into?

[AntiqueCollector]

Derringers are meant for close-range self-defense, not target shooting. Buy one if that's what you intend it for (or if you simply want one too), don't buy one with the hopes of it doing well for target shooting.

[Dienekes]

The only rattlesnake I ever dispatched was with a .45 Colt load--with a big old Keith bullet. No doubt my hand was guided by the spirit of Elmer at the time.

Haven't loaded up the shot capsules I have on hand for .45 Colt--but they sure are BIG.

Come to think about it, that short-barrelled Ruger .45 is quite the "companion on your walks".

[Okiecruffler]

At the risk of sounding like a tree-hugging PETA cardholding hippy, why shoot it at all? I've been catching, keeping and relocating rattlers for more than 20 years. Easily over 500 snakes and I have yet to have one chase me down or try to do anything other than get out of my reach if given the chance. The only snake that's likely to nail you is the one you don't see until it's too late. If it's in your garden where it can get to animals or youngin's then sure it needs relocated or dispatched, but if you're in it's living room, why go bothering it.

[scbair]

I find my ADC .45 Acp, with CCI-Speer shotloads, works well on vermin at 15 feet; so will my old High Standard Sentinel snub in .22 LR, with ball ammo, but ricochets/overpenetration is a concern to the neighbors! :D

I agree with OkieCruffler, too; a venomous snake (rattler, mocassin or copperhead; never seen a coral ...) in the backyard or garden, is a goner. Otherwise, I watch for 'em, and avoid 'em.

[alucard0822]

I do what I can to avoid snakes, and leave them be, but when hiking outside of MD, I take either a 4" 686 or a 6" taurus 44, both loaded with 1 #8 capsule (2 chambers down), and 5 gold dots or XTP loads. In the east snakes are normally fairly small cottonmouths and copperheads, but cougars and blackbears are around. I keep a SXS coach gun with #4 buck and a slug around when camping.

I now live in NW Arizona where we have the most deadly rattlesnake in N. America, the Mojave green. It has a combination of neuro-toxic and hemo-toxic venom. It shuts down the nervous system and attacks the cell membrane in the blood as well. The d'back is only hemo-toxic.
interesting story (with admittedly poor tactics) dealing with the mohave green rattlershttp://mojavedeserttrails.com/mojave/mstory02.htm

[VA27]

I killed a rattler in my front yard last summer with a .410 ADC. The patterns were huge and it took both barrels. My ears are still ringing.

I've since decided that I'm better off using 22mag shot shells in my M51 Smith, or 38 shot in my 342. Better patterns, more rounds and less recoil.

That said, I do like derringers. I still have a High Standard 22 maggie and an ADC (BJT) DA38.

The new Bond SnakeSlayer with the 4.5" barrels should improve the patterning and the new grip should help with control. Wear hearing protection.

The Bonds in 9mm/38/40 can't use the CCI shotshells 'cause the plastic capsule hits the rifling and won't chamber.

[M2 Carbine]

Hear that noise? That's John Wayne spinning in his grave at the image of somebody on a tractor (not a horse) shooting a snake with a derringer (not a Colt).

The Doc is roflmao now.

Funnier than that was later I shot a Copperhead with a AMT Backup 22LR, using Rem HP, from the tractor.
It was a quick shot as I was turning around a tree.
I thought, "No way", :D
but the snake was hit in the neck.

Now I leave this 38 on the tractor, loaded with #8 shot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/FIEDerringer.jpg

[lbmii]

Anyone ever chrono one of those 410 derringers? I really wonder about the velocity. What sort of recoil do hey have?

[spiroxlii]

Ibmii, my SxS .410/.45LC derringer's recoil isn't that bad, but the gun itself isn't really designed with ergonomics in mind. It doesn't fit in the hand very well. It's manageable once you get used to it, but the recoil does punish the shooter's hand more than it really has to, and the muzzle wants to flip up.

If you compare the felt recoil and muzzle flip between my derringer and my Colt SAA replica firing the exact same .45LC loads, the derringer could scare a new shooter away from .45LC while the revolver makes them feel quite comfortable.

I haven't done a similar comparison with .410, since my Colt SAA replica can't fire them. I would imagine that if you compared the felt recoil and muzzle flip between my derringer and something like a Taurus Judge revolver, you'd notice a similar effect to the one I mentioned above.

It makes sense. A revolver has greater mass and fits in the shooter's hand better, so the recoil is naturally more manageable.

[lbmii]

Does the 410 recoil more than the 45 in the Derringer?

[No Quarter]

I have several. Love 'em . The Bond in .44 mag is accurate enough to trust out to 15 yards. Most powerful pocket gun you can actually carry in a pocket.

Carry it every day in my Wranglers. 240 grain JSP leaves the barrel at 1100 fps.

Here she is:

[scbair]

I haven't tried .410 shotshells out of a handgun, but my gut tells me a round designed to be fired out of an 18" or longer tube might suffer some significant velocity loss out of a pocket pistol. :scrutiny: I would think the powder, case capacity, etc. might not lend itself to such an abbreviated "burn time."

The .45ACP, on the other hand, is a short, pistol case using a fast-burning powder, and I can tell you it works quite well from an American Derringer lightweight (yep, mine has an alloy frame, weighing approx. 11 ounces) derringer.

[Titan6]

Nope, my .45/.410 Texas Defender works wonders on rattlers and copperheads at close range in the .410 loading. Just be sure to have your ear plugs in because that is one loud gun. For SD past about 50 feet the .45 is worthless though. The .410 is worthless past about 15 feet.