December 24, 2007, 04:27 PM
I keep seeing folks write about getting Surplus Rifles in the cosmoline"un openned since being refurbished at the arsenal"
In the dark dim past any imported gun had to have the name of the importer on the gun, like the "Bluesky" marked Garands and carbines or the host of guns marked under the barrel near the muzzle "Interarms"
Has this requirement been dropped?
Are the Mosins being imported now being marked and if so where? Without the capture papers how can one tell a gun brought home from Korea or VN from a recent import?
December 24, 2007, 04:35 PM
no, the requirement still stands, but some importers have got sneaky about it. A few are micro engraving on Mag wells, while still others are 2" letters across the receiver. I've got an AK which has not been import marked at all (that I can find), It's Chicom, and may have come through Canada (which does not require country of origin markings).
December 24, 2007, 05:25 PM
"still in cosmo" means they took the gun, wiped off a 3 inch strip, did the engraving, and then its sold. so i mean, yes, some one has touched it since Ivan put it in storage, but except where they are engraved they are still smothered in cosmo
Wise Lite Arms
December 25, 2007, 12:00 AM
The following text was copied from here:
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 1]
[Revised as of April 1, 2002]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS
CHAPTER I--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS, DEPARTMENT OF THE
PART 178--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents
Subpart F--Conduct of Business
Sec. 178.92 How must licensed manufacturers and licensed importers identify firearms, armor piercing ammunition, and large capacity ammunition feeding devices?
(a)(1) Firearms. You, as a licensed manufacturer or licensed
importer of firearms, must legibly identify each firearm manufactured or imported as follows:
(i) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual
serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not
susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must
not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than \1/16\ inch; and
(ii) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed) or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain
additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed. For
firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:
(A) The model, if such designation has been made;
(B) The caliber or gauge;
(C) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when
applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer;
(D) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State
(or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer
maintain your place of business; and
(E) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in
which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized
abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
(2) Firearm frames or receivers. A firearm frame or receiver that is
not a component part of a complete weapon at the time it is sold,
shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section.
(3) Special markings for semiautomatic assault weapons, effective
July 5, 1995. In the case of any semiautomatic assault weapon
manufactured after September 13, 1994, you must mark the frame or receiver ``RESTRICTED LAW ENFORCEMENT/GOVERNMENT USE ONLY'' or, in the case of weapons manufactured for export, ``FOR EXPORT ONLY,'' in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed. For weapons manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the special markings prescribed in this paragraph (a)(3) must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.
(4) Exceptions. (i) Alternate means of identification. The Director
may authorize other means of identification upon receipt of a letter
application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other
identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective
administration of this part.
(ii) Destructive devices. In the case of a destructive device, the
Director may authorize other means of identifying that weapon upon
receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate,
showing that engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) such a weapon would be dangerous or impracticable.
(iii) Machine guns, silencers, and parts. Any part defined as a
machine gun, firearm muffler, or firearm silencer in Sec. 178.11, that
is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time it is sold,
shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you, must be identified as required
by this section. The Director may authorize other means of
identification of parts defined as machine guns other than frames or
receivers and parts defined as mufflers or silencers upon receipt of a
letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such
other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective
administration of this part.
(5) Measurement of height and depth of markings. The depth of all
markings required by this section will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1)(i) of this section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).
(b) Armor piercing ammunition--(1) Marking of ammunition. Each
licensed manufacturer or licensed importer of armor piercing ammunition shall identify such ammunition by means of painting, staining or dying the exterior of the projectile with an opaque black coloring. This coloring must completely cover the point of the projectile and at least 50 percent of that portion of the projectile which is visible when the projectile is loaded into a cartridge case.
(2) Labeling of packages. Each licensed manufacturer or licensed
importer of armor piercing ammunition shall clearly and conspicuously
label each package in which armor piercing ammunition is contained,
e.g., each box, carton, case, or other container. The label shall
include the words ``ARMOR PIERCING'' in block letters at least \1/4\
inch in height. The lettering shall be located on the exterior surface
of the package which contains information concerning the caliber or
gauge of the ammunition. There shall also be placed on the same surface of the package in block lettering at least \1/8\ inch in height the words ``FOR GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES OR EXPORTATION ONLY.'' The statements required by this subparagraph shall be on a contrasting background.
(c) Large capacity ammunition feeding devices manufactured after
September 13, 1994. (1) Each person who manufactures or imports any large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after September 13, 1994, shall legibly identify each such device with a serial number.
Such person may use the same serial number for all large capacity
ammunition feeding devices produced.
(i) Additionally, in the case of a domestically made large capacity
ammunition feeding device, such device shall be marked with the name, city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) of the manufacturer;
(ii) And in the case of an imported large capacity ammunition
feeding device, such device shall be marked:
(A) With the name of the manufacturer, country of origin, and,
(B) Effective July 5, 1995, the name, city and State (or recognized
abbreviation thereof) of the importer.
(iii) Further, large capacity ammunition feeding devices
manufactured after September 13, 1994, shall be marked ``RESTRICTED LAW
ENFORCEMENT/GOVERNMENT USE ONLY'' or, in the case of devices
manufactured or imported for export, effective July 5, 1995, ``FOR
(2) All markings required by this paragraph (c) shall be cast,
stamped, or engraved on the exterior of the device. In the case of a
magazine, the markings shall be placed on the magazine body.
(3) Exceptions--(i) Metallic links. Persons who manufacture or
import metallic links for use in the assembly of belted ammunition are
only required to place the identification marks prescribed in paragraph
(c)(1) of this section on the containers used for the packaging of the
(ii) Alternate means of identification. The Director may authorize
other means of identifying large capacity ammunition feeding devices
upon receipt of a letter application, in duplicate, from the
manufacturer or importer showing that such other identification is
reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number
[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10496, Mar. 31, 1988, as amended by T.D. ATF-363,
60 FR 17454, Apr. 6, 1995; T.D. ATF-383, 61 FR 39321, July 29, 1996;
T.D. ATF-396, 63 FR 12646, Mar. 16, 1998; T.D. ATF-461, 66 FR 40600,
Aug. 3, 2001]
December 28, 2007, 11:39 AM
Thanks for the replies guys, especially more than I ever wanted to know about ATF regulations!
So if I have a Mosin M1944 bought in about 1990 with no import marks to be found I likely do have a trophy rifle even thought the bring back papers were not offered with it.
My first Mosin experience was in high schol when the librarian loaned me her sons M1944 brought back from his tour as an advisor in VN. iI had a cracked stock but otherwise looked good. The deal was I could use it in a JROTC history of the US Army class if I cleaned it up. Naturally I immediately found a few rounds of ammo at a local hardware store (the box was mostly empty where at some point in the past they had sold rounds in quantities of two or three for hunting season,(not that uncommon when we hunted Stegasaurus and such) next came a light cleaning and the aplication of that most useful of all tools Duct Tape to prevent further spliting the stock. Then the blinding and deafing began. Having been beaten silly in short order I let a friend shoot it though for some reason he did not want to shoot it twice. Afterwards I took it all the way down as far as I could cleaned every part I could reach scrubbed the barrel for crossive residue even though I doubted the US loaded hunting ammo was corrosive cleaned the barrel over a few days using GI Rifle Bore Cleaner placed a light coat of oil on everything metal cleaned all the Duct tape gunk off the stock and lightly oiled the butt plate and stock fittings and took it to school.
I told this story to the woman that would be my wife and she paid for the M44 I have at a show and had me leave our NRA etc table to go do the paperwork and accept the rifle. Oddly it was after the paperwork was finished, so a done deal with the cash in his hand, that the guy first meantioned his sorrow at not being able to offer me the bring back papers and he had not mentioned them to Susan at all. WHen the Chinese guns became common I shot it abit with chinese silver tip and was reminded about the recoil, it shot great with the old Hanson branded Yugo ammo, but it has been fun and gets shot on occassion, most recently at a military rifle shoot last year after the competition when folks were just showing off stuff and I was plinking with the plastic cored training ammo. It appeared to be minute of large dirt clod at 100meters.
No doubt I will now go dig it out of the back of the safe and find "Fred's Junk Imports" emblazoned across one side of the barrel that I somehow missed and look like an idiot.
December 28, 2007, 12:24 PM
The ATF requires that every rifle have a unique identifying number. Some models of rifles have duplicate serial numbers for different manufacturers or have non-english characters. Some importers such as Century have gone to putting a 'billboard' marking on everything it imports now.
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