What are the laws for black powder in Rhode Island? Do i need to transfer through an FFL? Is there an age restriction? Background check? Hunters safety class? I looked on my state website and it has nothing on black powder guns. I just graduated from school and I want to get something nice for myself. Im looking at the 1851 Navy steel frame from cabelas. How good is there starter kit? What else am i going to need besides powder and caps? How smooth is the ordering procedure from cabelas? What do I need to have for them when i place my order besides my hard earned cash:banghead:.
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December 26, 2007, 07:54 AM
The best source of information regarding gun laws in Rhode Island will be the people charged with enforcing them. I looked for a NMLRA club in your area but found none. You need to contact a local sheriff or state police officer to get those answers.
I can say that the mail order retailers (Midway, Cabela's, Dixie Gun Works, etc.) have a pretty good understanding of what states they can and cannot ship to without going through an FFL transfer, and RI is not listed on any of their sites as requiring a transfer.
Cabela's starter kit is a good purchase as far as getting started, although it does not contain the most important item: knowledge. That you get from reading the posts on this and other forums, seeking out and shooting with other black powder enthusiasts and just going out and shooting. Especially helpful it the sticky message at the top of this forum titled, "Black Powder Essentials." Read it. In fact, study it carefully.
You didn't mention if you have any experience with guns. If I were you I'd look for a local shooting range and perhaps join or take their shooting classes, even if black powder isn't on the curriculum.
Cabela's (and Midway's and Dixie's, etc.) ordering process is simple and reliable. Cash is of no use. You must have a valid credit card (that's how they know you are old enough to own a weapon). If your state requires an FFL transfer (which I don't believe is the case) they'll help you with how to do that.
December 26, 2007, 12:34 PM
Will they take a debit card? I dont have a credit card. Im trying to avoid them. I have gun experience through the boy scouts and family members. A friend of mine has a range set up on his farm that i have used before. He has never used black powder. It looks like I will be stoping at my local state police barracks in tha next few days. Thanks for the help mykeal.
December 26, 2007, 12:35 PM
I believe the only states that really regulate the transfer of muzzleloading handguns are New York, Puerto Rico, New Jersey and Hawaii.
December 26, 2007, 06:32 PM
Cabela's web site has the following note when you place a bp gun in the shopping cart: "ALL orders placed from or shipped to Illinois or Michigan, MUST be placed by the FFL Gun Dept. by calling 1-800-237-4444 ext 132; available Monday-Friday 7am-7pm and Saturday 8am-4pm (Central Time).
SOME RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY"
Dixie Gun Works says, "THIS PRODUCT CANNOT BE SHIPPED TO NEW JERSEY OR CANADA."
The only one I have direct experience with is Michigan, and I can assure you that they do most certainly require the gun be transferred via an FFL.
December 26, 2007, 08:47 PM
I looked this up at cabela's and see the starter kit is only some of what you need in tools..
I can not find out exactly what a starter kit is. In the picture I can see top to bottom I see:
A flask to put black powder or a pyrodex substance in.
A brass looking tool I can't tell just what it is, I hope is is an adjustable measure of some sort.
A capper, or in line capper to store and hold caps with.
A multitool screw driver/nipple wrench
A tube of grease I assume
A few measly round ball, if you don't get atleast 100.
No caps which should be CCI number 11's. No powder. And no cleaning tools.
I watched the cleaning bit Cabela's shows and noted the gun was already clean. It won't be that easy.
You will need to loosen the screw that holds the wedge atleast 1/4turn out. The screw driver provided will due, but just for that one chore. That tool will likely be very soft and easy to mess up the screw driver blade. You will need a wooden or plastic mallet to hit the wedge with.
You will find you can't pull the barrel off as easy as shown, and will likely have to set the hammer to 1/2 cock and set the cylinder between chambers and use the loading leave to pry the barrel off.
Cabela's used a bronze brush.. Ho Ho Ho.. Get a plastic brush and then if you must use a broze brush last. The burnt particals will ruin a bronze brush in no time.
If I were you I would buy TC (Thomson Center's Bore butter in a tube and lube the wads with that, as well as use it as a over all gun oil to protect the finish.
If I were you I would use only hot water to clean with and no soap, unless you really have to use soap. The idea is the bore butter will "season" the metal, and if you use soap you will remove the ''season".
You will need a tooth brush to clean other parts.
You will need a real gun smithing screw drivers to fit the rest of the screws.
It is a little tricky a first to clean as I believe the wooden grip which is one pice of wood should be removed, so as to not get water on it. There is a main spring with a bit of authority to deal with, but over all you can't clean the gun well if you don't clean the gun well, after each use, and on the same day you used the gun.
Never fire the gun on a day you can't clean it well. One shot is as bad as 300, if you don't clean the gun.
They didn't mention removing each and every nipple. Do it, clean them, clean the threads they live in, and get it all dry. hence as hot of water as you can stand.
The hot water heats the metals, and hot metals dry faster and better.
Once dry use a hair dryer to make sure the metals are dry, and while still hot rub all the parts with bore butter inside and out.
Loading: I have never had a .36 cal. So I am not sure which ball is used. My Colt clone 1860 Army uses a 0.451 round ball and apx 18 grains of FFFg Black Powder. You can use an alternate, but in my opinion you should only use real black powder, atleast untill you have experience.
Ok I am a dyed in the wool buck skinner, and I mostly shoot flinters... No alternate powder works well in flinters. That tells me the stuff is hard to ignite, and that means slow. As to clean up there isn't much if any difference.
Certainly BP and alternates must be cleaned the same ways.
Debit cards are just like credit cards so far as money is concerned. Other than you account takes the hit instantly... cuddos on not having a credit card. I have 1 and 1 debit card.
If you plan to hunt and I am not so sure what you can hunt with a .36 you would need to take the state courses. If you plan to hunt I would move up to the .44's first.
I don't think there will be any hitch at Cablea's on a order for RI. If there is any warnings to you, well this gun is in a class of .38 and is leathal, and no toy, so treat it as you would any brass catridge gun. Only shoot things you plan to kill.
There is a lot more I could say... Some are greasing ove the ball is messey and you can get bore butter in a gook for that, Crisco works, as well as a lot of other things... Dyno oils in a BP gun are your enemy. SO never use chassis grease for cars.. Always grease over the tops of any ball/slugs to prevent chain fire.
NEVER steady the gun with a hand ahead of the cylinder!
Did I say have rags?
I forgot a jewelers screw drive can be handy if a cap jams, and caps tend to jam in a few ways.
That wedge is softer than goose snott... never hit it with steel. You can over drive it too..
IF a second cylinder is something you want buy it now with the gun as they are matched sets... later will not cut the mustard and time may well be off in tha second cylinder then.
As mentioned I have a colt clone,but I also have a Ruger Old Army. Pretty much what works for one works for the other..
Me: I am new here, but these guys are very good as I see things.. Stick around.
December 26, 2007, 11:53 PM
You can find the starter kit under black powder accessories. "You get a nipple wrench, a powder measure, 2-oz. bottle of Cabela's Black Powder Pistol Lube, a powder flask, 30 lead roundballs and 30 felt powder wads at significant savings over purchasing them separately. " As much as i love
significant savings i dont think its worth it. I would rather spend the money on the spare cylinder and get a nicer flask and measure. I have a brass drift set aside for the wedge. If thats harder than goose snott i can just use a dowel. What makes the gun smithing screw drivers so special? Are the screw heads a strange size, shape, type? Im an airplane mechanic. I have lots of screw drivers. I also have alot of practice with makeing tools. Whats the deal with the nipple wrench? I assume its not a standard socket. some kind of slot arrangement?
December 27, 2007, 02:28 AM
try these guys out
December 27, 2007, 12:40 PM
Gun Smith screw drivers are made for the special type of screws on most guns. Yes, these screws are different. The slots are dead straight up sides and not tapered like most auto and air craft screws and drivers are, and IS WHY many gun screws you see on used guns are buggered up, with hanging chads marring the screw tops.
It is possible to alter auto and air craft type screw drivers to fit, by grinding these flat sided if you wish, but in the doing you will need to water quench these to keep them as hard as they were made often dipping in just seconds of time while grinding, and finish up with a file.
I should think the gun would would come with a multitool as std anyway. This nipple type has a rectangle lug to bear the wrench. So the best I can say in text is the socket is something like a dash board socket with 2 cuts to fit the nipple shoulders. You can make one of these as well from an old 1/4" drive socket in apx 3/16" with a hack saw and a file.
I can't believe any gun bought with out a "Starter Kit" would come with out one of these tools. Although these days anything is possible.
ROA uses a hex nippel just so you know.
A Brass drift will work, but leave a brass sheen on the wedge. I can't say I like that sheen myself much, so what I have done is make up a dowel and re-enforced it with a cut off spent brass casing on both ends, so I can drift the wedge out, and not marr it. The dowel is pretty much over driven in what ever brass I have on hand, so I have several made from .44 mag, .45 acp, both ends from 30-06 cases, as I use these for other chores in making Trade Silver, to clear dies.
Dyed in the wool buck skinners seem to be allergic to plastics... little joke.
There is a good auto glass tool in the form of a white plastic wedge, which is also abou right, and cheap. It just won't match to what the gun looks like much. I get a little over board wanting my tools to match the look of the ones when which ever gun I have was made. You don't need to do that, but to me it is half the fun.
I looked harder at the kit, since you told me how. They show a in line capper for sure, but don't mention it. It is brass and next to the adjustable measure.
I consider these cappers a so-so tool, depending on quality, and how polished my finger tips are that day, usually depending on if I have recently fried my finger tips off hot steel or not.. (I get burned alot making things, and don't think much of it.)
Digging deeper I see you need 0.375" round ball. On the boxes in any decent sporting goods store these will be in boxes of 100 balls and marked .375.
Hornady is a swagged ball, and so far as I know most others are cast.
That means the Hornady have no sprue from casting and should be with out flaws like aair bubbles, and may be the very best of the best. I cast and have good results just the same.
I have to cast most of my round ball since when you get over .50 cal things get costly and no more is the box filled to 100, more like 25. I use a lot of 0.600 and 0.735 round ball, and it just gets to steep.
I have a .40 cal long rifle which I will buy round ball for at .395, or .390.
I live in Tamworth NH, not so far from RI, but far enough I have no idea what kinds of sporting goods stores you have near by. Local Mom and Pop stores have simple things, mostly for TC guns which are made in Rochester NH, and if I want powder I have to go to Kittery Trading Post, which is apx 80 miles one way in Maine. It used to be getting powder was closer, but regs messed that up.
Most of the mom and pop stores carry some alternate powders, but flinters hate that stuff.
The cabela's flask has a plastic look, is it?
I am with you that 50 bucks isn't such a great deal if you ask me.
'IF' Walmart is near by they would have many tools in a ordinary way for cleaning guns, and for sure have the plastic brushes. I have a gob of bronze brushes all nice and green with brissels falling out if you want mine! LOL Powda cuts these up bad, and I am just not into washing brushes...
The way I clean now I don't use brushes untill the gun is clean and so I am then only going after lead particals on the bore and maybe a little on the cylinder chambers. So the burnt powda is long gone.
If you ever wanted a matched cylinder this is the time as it just has to be made for apx 1/4 of the guns made.. It has to be a matches and timed cylinder from the get go, or after the fact the gun needs to be sent in, so a matched cylinder can be made.
Only a real fool would believe any old cylinder looking like the one in any wheel gun would simply just fit and work. You know what timing is on engines, and so it is a like timing happening here.
There is a cylinder hand to rotate the cylinder to the next chamber as you cock the hammer, and a locking lug that rises up from with in the frame to lock the clyinder in lin with the bore. This timing is critcal to accuracy and safely firing the wheel gun, no matter who made and no matter what is shoots.
The hand rides on a cam from the hammer spur, and the hand has a flimsy hair like spring. The spring is crimped to the hand, an is delicate!
The trigger runs another 3 finger spring which works everything else, except the main spring which is a bar spring and only drops the hammer hard.
The worst offender to break is one of the 3 fingers on the lock. A spare of that is handy, and Dixie can provide that and others.. Once more to swap out that and others the set of screw drivers is critical to decent work. And more so when screws are recessed deeply in holes. That is another difference in these screw drivers, they do not flare wider up the shanks as much as normal screw drivers like Snap On do.
Wheel guns are the only BP guns I will load from a flask, and only because I can see the chambers directly. At first you pour from the flask into a measure anyway, which finds which amount of grains is the most acurate. There is a wide range of grains as volume you may use. You will likely create more than one load to do different things...
Paper targets die easier than anything else so a light target load of maybe 10 to 12 grains is all paper needs.. Hunting you might use 18+. Who knows?
A light charge is usually best for paper punching and will be more accurate in general.
SO Once you use the measure with the flask, if you bought a flask with a cut off lever, and a brass spout longer than you will ever need, you can fill the measure to the best hunting load, and then fill the spout to see where to cut it. mark it as such.
Then with another screw in spout find the best target load and do the same.
Once you have done that you can load from the flask so long as you take a good look and don't add powda to a hot chamber.
Never do that with any long gun, because you can not see down the bore well enough, and a flask/horn going off in your face IS NO FUN.
Many TC tools will fit this gun, such as nipple wrenchs. Many of these fit standard cleaning kits you may already have. I assume you have other guns and so have cleaning kits on hand.
ALL the loading data is a guess since I never have had a .36. I have 2 .44's and that 18 grains of FFFg is my target load for ther ROA.
My .40 cal long rifle uses 40 grains of FFFg for hunting! and 20 FFFg for paper.
My .62 brass pistol eats just 20 grains as I only punch paper with it, and it has NO SITES what so ever, so isn't for hunting. I tried a 10 grain charge of FFg with this pistol and had tacked a target to a soft white pine board and the ball bounced off and nearly hit me. (not good) The thing there is a .600 cal round ball is more than 6 times the weight of a .375/.390 round ball.
Just to save figuring a .600 ball is apx 5/8" diameter.
In the event you wish to get a Lyman mold this gun will want pure lead and not wheel weights, but wheel weights should not harm the gun in anyway.
Wheel weights may not conform to the chambers well and so the risk is a chain fire. I beleive the .375 will not sheer a lead ring off a round ball and so the ball will have to compress slighty as you press the loading lever in.
A ROA does cut a ring of lead off when loading, but my Colt clone does not. The loading lever will prefer soft lead as well, over wheel weights.
Wheel weights are not quite as heavy as pure lead either.
BP guns are not quite the same as brass catridge guns. In the cleaning I like as I said above to remove the wooden grips and flush the whole thing with wicked hot water first. In wheel guns I like to remove the nipples and set them and the cylinder in a pan of as hot water. I flush the whole frame to include the little springs still installed.
With a slotted tip on a rod I wipe out the bore and the chambers with a swabbie in the slotted tip. Then I use a plastic brush on the chambers and the bore and after that if I can see leading, I will use a bronze brush.
I don't use or buy BP cleaners ever, and rarely if ever use any BP solvents. If I do it is because I have come by a gun, usually not my own with a problem.
But then I am one of the "seasoning" believers. The idea there is to never do anything to that seasoning... Hot water just makes it better.
December 27, 2007, 12:51 PM
sorry that was so long....
December 27, 2007, 01:19 PM
No problem. Good info. I get my check today. I will order tonight or earley tomorow. The flask looks like the colt flask also under accessories. It is made of antiqued brass. I wonder if it would shine up well?
December 27, 2007, 02:59 PM
I can't be sure, but I think it says Cabela's on it??? Might be I was seeing something other than you intended??
Muzzleloaders are defined as "antiques" as in the USC. A member quoted the applicable section of the UCS for handy reference.
Muzzleloading pistols, rifles, and shotguns may be bought and sold in RI with no background check or other restrictions. This includes mail order.
But note carefully that the laws (strictly) regulating carrying and transportation of firearms do not exempt antiques. So you can't carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle. (Exception: If it's a muzzleloading pistol or revolver and you hold a RI Pistol Permit.) Firearms must be unloaded and "securely wrapped" for legal transport. Pistols and revolvers can only be transported to and from your home or place of business and a "bona fide shooting range". Rifles and shotguns may be transported anywhere. I do not believe that pistols or revolvers can legally be used for hunting.
FWIW, the muzzleloader deer season is a lot longer than the shotgun season. But if it hasn't ended already, it's about to.
I knew this stuff from my 50 years of living in RI before moving to TX, but I wasn't sure of the exact law that applied so I enlisted the CRAL RI crew to help out. Back in 2000 I won the door prize at the RI Federated Sportsmans Clubs banquet. It was a 50 cal. muzzleloading rifle, and they handed it over to me on the spot.
Legal as breathing.
December 29, 2007, 10:30 PM
call this number for info he is alawyer for RI state ass.PERRY WHEELER
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