[chetrogers]

Can anyone suggest a mouse gun for me to check out.To tell the truth i haven't seen many and when i get my ccw i will sometimes only carry mouse gun..Something for pocket carry maybe or just any suggestions for small caliber pistols..Any caliber under 9mm of-course :)

[coldshot03/04]

Kel-Tec P32.

[Glamdring]

Kel Tec P32 (32acp) or Kel Tec P3at (a 380, not yet in full production)

Or a lt wt J frame smith.

[kalibear45]

This one:

http://home.comcast.net/~kbug1/images/ppk_tripp3.jpg

:)

[faustulus]

I like my Beretta Tomcat.

[Kentucky Rifle]

I keep mine in a RJ Hedley "Back Pocket Model" holster nearly every day stoked with .32ACP RBCD's. Hardly ever notice it. Very fast draw. The holster works just like it's supposed to work. Saved my bacon in a dark parking garage once, though at that time, it was full of Gold Dots. One inch from the bad guy's left eye. I've always wondered if he could see the Gold Dot.

Will

[tiberius]

Kel-Tec owns this market with their P-32 (over 130,000 sold) and the new P-3AT (getting great reviews of the few out there).


The Kel-Tecs have already ben mentioned, so I'm not adding anything new, just emphasis. Everything else in these calibers are much larger and/or heavier or deficient in some owther way in comparison to the Kel-Tecs.

The snubby revolver and the Walther PPK are nice weapons, but are really just of compact size and cannot really be considered mouse guns, no matter what caliber they are chambered for.

[Ky Larry]

CZ-83. It may be a little bigger than you're looking for. It has great trigger and steel construction. You can get it in .32 and .380. I wonder why CZ doesn't make a 9mm in this model. They would own the back up market.

[MikeJ]

I highly recommend the NAA Guardians, either in .32 or .380. I own the .32 and love it! I have also owned the KelTec 32 and realize it has a large following, however it didn't appeal to me. Mike

[WhoKnowsWho]

Kel Tec, P32, P-3AT if you can find it.

[Drifting Fate]

Sentimental favorite is a PPK, but it can be a bit heavy in the pocket. I like my Airweight J-Frame (Bodyguard). Yeah, some complain it gets a bit bulky, but I can live with it.

If you are willing to go down to a .22LR, the Beretta 21 is cheap and works if feed quality, high velocity ammo.

[Gunner45]

I love my Colt Mustang Pocketlite. At 12.5 oz you allmost forget you have it on.

Gunner45

[ruger357]

S&W 637, 950 Jetfire.

[NC Shooter]

Try the Sig P232.

Love mine

[Standing Wolf]

If I'm going to spend a couple hours in my dentist's chair, I drop my Walther PPK into a jacket pocket instead of wearing my pre-agreement Smith & Wesson model 60 on my belt. The .380 A.C.P. isn't much of a caliber, but a.) it beats carrying nothing, and b.) it beats lying on a revolver.

[Outrigger]

Another vote for the P-32. Mine is clipped in my front pocket every day, hardly notice it at all. Neither does anyone else.

[TIMC]

The Mrs. likes her P32. I prefer the NAA 32.
I've seen the P32 stove pipe once or twice. Never had a problem with the NAA 32.

[hoppinglark]

I own a P-32 and If you do get one i also recomend the Jason Schafer pocket holster you can order it through Pay-Pal http://www.jsholsters.com/
it's Awesome!

But that is my PERSONAL opinion....

[Deepdiver]

J-Frame 38 snubbie is my first choice.

I also have a CZ70 in 32, but the 38 weighs less, and rides in an ankle holster real well.

Carry 5 extra rounds in the coin pocket of my levi's and I am "good to go".

[OEF_VET]

I love my P32, but I would also recommend the Beretta mouseguns. They're a bit bigger and heavier than the Kel-Tec, but may be less prone to problems. Of course, the only problems I've had with my P32 were attributable to the cheap ammo I was using at the time. I haven't had any problems with name brand ammo.

[No Quarter]

Bond Arms Texas Defender in .45 colt/.410 shotgun.
5" long and weighs 21 oz. I carry one everyday in my pocket. Hides well and has a respectable caliber:

http://www.goodiesfromgoodman.com/site/images/chris/amex.jpg


Oh yeah baby! Invigorating recoil - but will sure put a bigger hurt on the BG:)

NQ

[Deepdiver]

Can you get "00" for a 410??

[chetrogers]

Thanks guys for the suggestions.I was wondering do you guys have pictures of your Kel-Tec P32 or the guns that you have suggested here next to something that i could tell really the size of them..I wont be able to go to a real gun store for a couple of weeks and i would first like to get an idea of the size compared to something that im used to seeing.thanks as always

[Deepdiver]

go to www.gunbroker.com . Do a search on any of the pieces that you are interested in. You will probably find photos and prices......it will give you a good idea of what to expect when you get to the "real" gun store.

Good luck!

[No Quarter]

I use 000 buck. Three pellets that hit within 5" of each other is bound to put a hurt on someone...

NQ

[huaco]

I've been pocket carrying a Baretta Tomcat .32 for a month or so and I really think I made the right decision when I went to a gunshow intending to buy a KT P-32 but decided to go with the Tomcat for $50 more because of the feature set and in spite of the slight extra weight and size. It's still very much a pocket pistol and can act just like a P-32 if you wish ie draw and pull a long double action trigger to shoot. On the other hand you have the option of a well placed safety and the ability to draw back the trigger and start out with single action. The flip up barrel gives you the ability to load, check, and unload the chamber without racking the slide. Like the KT product it has mixed reviews. I have a bit over a hundred rounds through my Tomcat and it has yet to miss a lick, not much of a testimony but it's where I am at this time.

[jon1481]

100% dependable and accurate, 9.9 oz., 8 in the mag., and one in the chamber----Beretta 950

[Logistar]

Kel-tec P32 in DeSantis Nemesis holster. It will go ANYWHERE!

FWIW
Logistar

[Hypnogator]

Another vote for the Kel-Tec P-32. I don't consider the .380 enough more powerful to warrant trading up, but if I were in the market, I'd certainly be interested in the P-3AT. I used to carry a Walther TPH in .22LR as my "always" gun, 'till I got the P-32. It was compact, accurate, reliable, and cheap to shoot, too. My daughter now carries it, because she didn't like the P-32 and her Tomcat "kicked to much." :rolleyes:

BTW, I found the Tomcat to be too wide to be a good "Pocket Gun." If I wanted something that large, I'd go with a 5-shot .38 snub.

[firestar]

The only mouse gun that has been reliable for me has been my Beretta 21A, CZ-70 and my Walther PP .32acp. I don't really think the CZ-70 or the Walther falls into the class as mose gun because theyare too large and heavy to carry in my pocket.

I think a mouse gun has to be small and light enough to stick in your front pants pocket without too much trouble. Other people have other ways of deciding what is considered a mouse gun but that is mine.

I have had two Jennings J-22s, Raven .25acp, Kel-Tec P-32 and a Taurus PT-22 that I would all rank about the same, JUNK! The Raven was the best out of the bunch and the only one that never jammed or had any problems. If I had to pick one of the ones I just listed for self defense, it would be the Raven but it was clearly made cheaply and I felt that it was just a matter of time before something went wrong with it. Also, it was SA only so you couldn't carry a round in the chamber safely. It would take two hands to get into operation and if I really needed it, I'm not sure I would have two hands free.

The Kel-Tec was the most expensive and the biggest POS out of all of them! It had to go back to the factory after 200 rounds for constant FTE jams and at about round 400, it broke in my pocket somehow! I don't know how it happened but I shot it at the range and it worked fine, I then loaded it and put it back in my back pocket cliped on to the outside of my pocket as always and the next time I tried to shoot it, nothing! Not even a click! The trigger axis had broken which is a common problem for these guns.

I have heard a lot of people who claim they got good P-32s but I have also heard a lot of people who got bad ones. IMO, they aren't worth the risk. They have a bad rep and I think it is deserved. Quality on these is about one step above Jenning, Bryco, Raven, etc. and about four steps down from the Taurus PT-22 and about a 100 steps down from a Walther or Beretta.

[denfoote]

Pistolet Makarova!!
It has been my "mouse gun" for years!! :cool:

[Spieler]

I like my Beretta M21A. It has been extremely reliable as I have yet to have a failure of any kind. I got turned on to them years ago when a few of my friends who were LEOs mentioned that they were a favorite backup/deep cover gun.

[Dr.Rob]

A .38 is not a mouse.

Mouse guns start at .32 and work backwards.

Just my opinion.

Try to find something unusual, like a Beretta Jetfire or Colt Junior.

[Coot]

Another vote for Kel Tec P32...mine has 750-1000 rounds thru it without a failure, is amazingly light and accurate and inexpensive.

http://www.kel-tec.com/prod02.htm

I will be adding their new P3AT to my collection later this year- approximately the same size, but significantly more power.

http://www.kel-tec.com/p3at_pistol.htm

The overwhelming number of experiences with the P32 posted on this and other sites has been positive; Kel Tec's customer service (should you require it) is also stellar.

[DW]

Another vote for the Seecamp .32. I tried a P-32...it failed out of the box. I have had no problems with the Seecamp, and it's well built and reliable.

DW

[RandyB]

S&B used to sell 00 in a 3 inch .410 (5 pellets)

I like the Kel-Tec p-32 a great deal. My brother-in-law has one, my brother and his wife want to order (imagine the outing where 4-5 people all pull the same gun at "Mr. BG came to interupt our dinner plans..":D

For looks the PPK gets my vote. I'd love to own one just because it is a very beautiful gun.

[22luvr]

The Kel-Tec is the champ, as far as I'm concerned for a pocket pistol that weighs less than 10 oz fully-loaded with 8 rounds, is only 3/4" wide and all but disappears in a pocket. It is so light that a second mag can be carried with no appreciable weight gain.

I currently carry either a Smith and Wesson 340SC .357 mag revolver or an NAA mini-revolver in .22 MAG. Yes, the 340SC pocket carries easily and the entire package weighs less than one pound. (gun, ammo, and holster)

For concealability in the right kind of pants the Kel-Tec P32 and the NAA mini-revolver are my all-time favorites for mouse guns.

[thisaway]

Beretta Tomcat Inox in a DeSantis "Trickster" pocket holster. :scrutiny:

[coldshot03/04]

http://www.ktog.org/guns6-00

CZ 70 are junk I had 2 of them both sucked.
:barf:

A Raven? Double:barf: :barf:

[scottgun]

The KT P32 is a great little mouse gun. In my 'palm pilot' holster, it sits inconspicously in my front pocket and always there when I can't pack something larger.

As far as reliability, I have only had problems with cheap ammo, American, with light loads. As far as the pistol, I have never had any problems with it.

[tiberius]

Well, I just picked up a P-3AT that I hope to put through th eringer tomorrow SO hopefully, I'll be changing my vote from teh P-32 to the P-3AT.

FYI, It feels a little bigger in the hand and looks a little chunkier, but it carries just as easily as the .32.

[tiberius]

d'oh!

[chetrogers]

Please let me know how it shoots i was really hoping for a .380 caliber..IF you dont mind may i ask how much you paid for it

[tiberius]

$303 out the door ($279 + Dallas' ourageous sales tax) , A little high, but I'm sure they will be coming down over the next few months. The P-32's were $229.

[tiberius]

Per the request for a performance review, I took my new P-3AT to the range today to break it in and get a first impression of the little beast. Overall, I am happy with its performance, but there were a few things which disappointed. I will just list the highlights in bullet form.

Preparation:
- Degreasing and cleaning
- Light F&B – polished feed ramp, removed burs
- Sanded trigger face to remove sharp parting lines
- Painted front sight orange.

Shooting

- 200 rounds of S&B FMJ. On the second magazine load, the last round failed to extract. Otherwise all 200 rounds fed and extracted perfectly. I cleaned and relubed the gun after the first 100 rounds. All rounds were fired at 7 yards with one or two handed grip offhand. It shot to point of aim using a center hold. In slow fire groups were generally about 4 inched CTC. In semi-rapid fire, the groups opened up to about 6 inches CTC.

- 18 Cor Bon 90gr. JHP were fired. In each of the three magazine loads, the # 2 round failed to feed. On the second and third magazines, the #3 round also FTF’d. Out of 18 rounds, there were a total of 5 FTF’s. It was the typical type in which the bullet simply got caught on the feed ramp. A bump or push on the rear of the slide successfully chambered all 5 of the misfeeds.

- It was about 98F and I was rather sweaty so I found it very difficult to rack the slide to chamber a new magazine after the first two. This was much worse than the P-32 due to the heavier recoil springs and lack of a slide lock. I was able to rack it by either thoroughly drying my hands and racking it normally, or by using an overhand grip and pushing the slide back with my entire hand.

- On 3 or 4 occasions, I lost count and let the hammer fall on an empty chamber.

- Recoil was not painful in anyway. I suppose that it is more severe than the P-32, but unless you shoot them side-by-side, you may not notice. Since my hands were rather slippery, as mentioned above, the pistol shifted in my grip on a few (<10) occasions during the end of my session. The required me to shift my grip prior to the next shot.

[chetrogers]

Thank you for the review

[shooter.45]

Keltec P32 or 950 Jetfire. depends on my mood. :D

[Greybeard]

Maybe a step above a true mouse gun, but I can recommend the Kahr PM9. 6+1 of 9mm in a compact package that goes in pocket loaded at 19.4 ounces. They remain rather pricey these days - and semi-difficult to find. Just talked to a friend tonight who had to wait over 2 weeks for one, paying $510 without night sights.

[Marko Kloos]

The P32 is the American Express gun. With one of those, there's no excuse to go unarmed at any time.

The P32 is the only gun I can carry in the front pocket of my Dockers without printing in a dreadfully obvious fashion.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~lendringser/images/p32_l.jpg

[Nick96]

Beretta 950 Jetfire. Whimpy round, but ultra light, easy to handle/conceal, good ammo capacity and an ultra reliable launch platform with over 40 years of proven use.

I'd rather have a whusee round in a platform I know will work than chance something more substantial that may fly apart in my hand.

[ranger7]

I have two P-32s and a P-3AT (second P-3AT on order).

Several thousand rounds through the P-32s Had some early problems with them but they've been 100% reliable for at lesast two years.

Have about 250 rounds through the P-3AT. Slightly more recoil than the P-32. One or two ammo related problems in the first couple of mags.

I'm a big fan of these "go everywhere guns."

Alan

[Kentucky Rifle]

Gun Buddies,
I own a P-32 and I'll purchase the new .380 model the first chance I get. However, I just ordered a RJ Hedley "Front Pocket LE" for my Seecamp. Both RJ and Larry Seecamp are friends of mine. I honestly believe that this is the best combo I could possibly have in my pocket.<shrug>
Oh, I almost forgot. My Seecamp is loaded with RBCD ammo.

KR

[Rebeldon]

I kinda like the NA Mini-revolver in .22 Mag. I might get one.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Another vote for the NAA 32 and the Beretta 21A 'EL' (ok ok so it's a little pimp... I got a good deal).

The KelTec P32 just didn't work for me.

http://www.swedcom.com/test_images/NAA32Guardian.jpg

http://www.swedcom.com/test_images/Beretta21A.jpg

[pistolwhipped]

Just yesterday I fell into a LGS looking for the elusive P3AT. What I found was a P32 for over 300.00 . NOOOOOO!
And no P3AT !

[CZ-100]

I visited Two Gun shops last Fri. One had a USED P32 for $320 and the other had a NEW one for $268

OUCH :what:

[Deepdiver]

A .38 is not a mouse.




Mouse guns start at .32 and work backwards.


Sorry! I thought a "mouse gun" was what one used to shoot "mice"..

....we got some big ones around here :D !

[tiberius]

For anyone that's interested, during my initial P-3AT report (a few posts up), I reported that despite its perfect functioning with S&B ball ammo, I had several FTF’s with Cor Bon JHPs.

I polished the feed ramp to a near mirror finish (Dremel, felt wheel & jeweler’s rouge) and it now reliably feeds hollow points. I have successfully run, Cor Bon, Speer Gold Dot and Federal Hydra-Shock through it. This second range session included 150 rounds with no failures of any kind.

[Bill.45]

chetrogers ask for a picture to compare the P.32 to another handgun so he could get an idea of it's size. Chet, here is a full size .45 and the P.32. I bought the Kel-Tec a month ago at a gun show, new in the box for $208.95, plus tax. I saw a mdl. in .380 for $211.95 but it was gone when I returned to look again.


http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL103/636041/1968861/31721688.jpg

[rolltide]

Another vote for the NAA 32 acp. As small as the Seecamp, as reliable, and much less expensive. NAA 32 is much more reliable than the P32 seems to be with hollowpoint ammo. With the 32, you get mousegun size with 380/38snubnose performance stopping power. Quite a deal.

I carry one everyday in a belt pouch with my cell phone or in a front pocket holster with a mag wallet in the back pocket with one 10 round mag full of FMJ and a standard mag full of JHP.

Roll Tide

[tiberius]

With the 32, you get mousegun size with 380/38snubnose performance stopping power.

Or at least .32 power.

[Rogelio]

Hello:

I am kind of new to this forum, so I would really appreciate some help....I recently lost my job and had to sell my 2 guns (a Makarov in .380 and a Glock 25) and right now I am unarmed.

A couple of days ago I asked for some opinions on a certain handgun (bryco) that a friend offered to sell, but now my father has offered to give me his Walther P22 (the one with the standard barrel, not the 5").

I have already shot 5 boxes of premium high speed hollowpoint ammunition at the range with it (I do not recall the brand but it was a blue box) and the gun did not jam once, it is really accurate and fun to shoot.

Can it be used for concealed carry?? I know the .22lr is not a defensive caliber, but maybe can I stop an attacker with a full magazine of well placed high speed hollowpoints?

Thanks for all the help you guys are giving me...

[ranger7]

Others may disagree, but I think a 22LR is better for defensive purposes than being unarmed. I can't quote a source at the moment but I believe most uses of a handgun for self-defense involve no shots being fired. There may be an increased intimidation factor having a bigger hole in the end of the barrel, but most sane people don't want to be shot, even with a 22.

I would suggest you try to move up to something in a larger caliber when you can.

Alan

[Rogelio]

Thanks for your reply..I have also got to shoot the Bryco and never had a single misfire....but as my dad is giving me the .22 I thought it would be nice to save the money or maybe use it in buying quality ammunition...which one is better choice...a quality .22 with maximum speed hollowpoint ammo or a cheap .380 with round nose FMJ (we can not buy hollowpoints for anything larger than .22 here in Peru)???

[RandyB]

Just my 2 cents worth, but on the .22 LR I'd recommend sticking with a solid vs. hollowpoint. Pentration is crucial. Looking at the Remington viper or other HV solid is what I have carried in the past. A .22 might not be the best choice for self-defense, but it sure beats nothing.

[Rogelio]

Randy thank you for your advice....so should I stick to the P-22 or get the Bryco? I think I should get the .22lr because at least with that gun I am sure I will get all the shots out and not get the gun jammed (as would happen with the bryco according to most people in this forum)

Nice point when saying that solid is better for a .22 lr, but I just have one little question...is that penetration issue only about people wearing heavy clothes?? I ask because here in Peru we have a great weather and only this time of the year (our winter) our temperature goes as down as 15-16 degrees celsius...(I live in Lima, but on the highlands-where I do not go- it can be up to -12 celsius) so people most of the time wear nothing but sweaters or a light jacket...I don´t think there should be any problems with such light cloting..I am wrong??

Please answer back...I will go to the range today and shoot for a while with my dad´s P-22, I think I will try some different manufacturers of ammo so I can decide what feels the best (alos, what feeds, shoots and ejects the best!)

Thanks...

[RandyB]

Clothes to me make a minumum impact on the round of choice in any firearm I carry. (Maybe because here in Indiana the weather can change so suddenly) It was 67 F this morning and in the 90's F this afternoon and will change even more as fall approaches. In the .22 LR you are unlikely to get much in the way of expansion in a .22 out of a short barrelled handgun. The mechanics of injury is going to be to either hit the CNS or by polking holes through major blood carrying sites. If a .22 can penetrate 10 inchs or 6 inchs, which is going to do more damage? which is also more likely to hit a major organ/vessel? When I carried a PT-22 I shot all sorts of different round through it and found that the Remington Viper did best for me. You might find another round is more accurate, penetrates better, fires more reliable, etc. in you particular weapon. IMHO also I would rather have a .22 that shot 100% of the time, than a .380 that I did not trust. If the .380 was 100%, then I'd carry anything it and feel it was a 'better' choice than a .22 for self-defense. Another round to try might be the .22 "Velocitor" by CCI, it is a hollow point to my understanding, but it might penetrate deep enough and expand also..... Good luck and stay safe!

[sw442642]

If you don't have bucks and want something quality but small - look at the NAA 22 LR or Mag minirevolvers. Yes, they have disadvantages but for $150 or less, you get a nice small gun.