Historic low in NYC, Chicago homicides


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romma
December 28, 2007, 04:54 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071228/ap_on_re_us/big_city_homicides;_ylt=AnskqFWgSkqAc6sOQSQhDVus0NUE


NEW YORK - Chicago and New York are about to close out 2007 with the lowest number of homicides in more than 40 years, while cities such as Baltimore, Atlanta and Miami have seen killings go up because of what police say is a surge in guns and gang violence.



New York City reported 488 slayings as of Friday, versus 596 for all of 2006. The city is on track to have the lowest number of killings since reliable record-keeping started in 1963.

Homicides in New York reached an all-time high of 2,245 in 1990, making the city the nation's murder capital. Since then, the numbers have plummeted, and experts attribute the decline in part to computerized tracking of crime trends and the practice of strategically flooding high-crime areas with police officers instead of spreading them evenly through the precincts.

Chicago is on track to have the lowest homicide toll since 1965, when police reported 395 killings. The city had logged 435 slayings through Dec. 26. In the early part of the decade, police often reported more than 600 a year.

Chicago officials credit the improvement to their tough stance on gangs, guns and drugs.

"Those three ingredients, so to speak, are what we're focused on," said police spokeswoman Monique Bond. "That's really what leads to random violence."

Those factors were blamed for increases in murders in other cities.

Atlanta had 126 homicides as of Dec. 26, compared with 111 for the same period a year ago. Police attributed some of the increase to a New Orleans-based gang

that moved into town after Hurricane Katrina. Members of the International Robbing Crew are accused of killing at least seven people in Atlanta.

In Miami, authorities say the proliferation of assault weapons led to an increase in killings, from 56 in 2005 to 79 in 2006 and 86 so far in 2007.

"You just pull a trigger and 20 or 30 rounds come in a second and in those 20 rounds you're sure to hit your intended target and some innocent bystanders, totally unlike a firearm that is just one bullet every time you pull the trigger," Miami Police spokesman Willie Moreno said.

Earlier this year, Baltimore was headed for its bloodiest year in nearly a decade. But the bloodletting eased up after a new police commissioner took office.

The bloodshed in Baltimore is blamed on entrenched poverty, widespread drug addiction, failing schools and easy access to guns.

Through Dec. 26, there were 280 homicides in Baltimore — four more than in all of 2006. Things looked even grimmer in mid-July, the day Police Commissioner Leonard D. Hamm resigned. At that point, Baltimore had 178 homicides, putting it on pace for a total of 325. The city has not topped 300 since 1999.

The new police commissioner, Frederick H. Bealefeld III, and Mayor Sheila Dixon have gone after repeat violent offenders more aggressively, flooded high-crime zones with officers, and revived a unit that traces illegal guns. Also, repeat gun offenders are being sent more frequently to the federal court system, where they face stiffer sentences.

"They have become more focused, appropriately, on getting illegal guns off the streets and violent gun offenders off the street," said Daniel Webster, co-director of the Center for Gun Policy and Research at Johns Hopkins University.

It has been a particularly bloody year for children in Baltimore: Twenty-seven of this year's homicide victims were under 18.

In Philadelphia, killings dipped this year after reaching a nine-year high of 406 in 2006. Through midnight Tuesday, the city had 390 slayings, or 11 fewer than at the same point a year ago.

Like Baltimore, Philadelphia is dealing with a rash of illegal handguns that officials believe are being used to resolve minor disputes.

In other big cities, Phoenix reported 207 killings at the end of November, just shy of last year's total of 214 for the same period; Boston had 66 slayings as of Dec. 28, compared with 71 by the same point in 2006; Dallas was on track to finish considerably higher, with 200 homicides as of Dec. 26, versus 175 last year.

_____:barf: The assault weapon lie is just sickening... Don't these police know anything about firearms?

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RKBABob
December 28, 2007, 05:28 PM
In Miami, authorities say the proliferation of assault weapons led to an increase in killings, from 56 in 2005 to 79 in 2006 and 86 so far in 2007.

"You just pull a trigger and 20 or 30 rounds come in a second and in those 20 rounds you're sure to hit your intended target and some innocent bystanders, totally unlike a firearm that is just one bullet every time you pull the trigger," Miami Police spokesman Willie Moreno said.

_____:barf: The assault weapon lie is just sickening... Don't these police know anything about firearms?My guess is that they do... but they have to make their citizens scared in order to justify their own budget, or perhaps their tactics.

It may be a lie... but its also panic marketing at its finest.
Scare the customer into behaving the way you want them to.

For instance:
"If you don't increase funding for the police, Willie the drug dealer will shoot up your kids' school with an AK47!"
"Acme Chevrolet's Inventory Reduction Sale ends Friday! You'll never be able to save this much money again!"
"We won't be able to fight these gangs without a tax increase... now that they have machine guns!"
"This is what 'Feed the Hungry' has done in the past... but these kids will starve without your help!"
"Who would begrudge us a small increase in our budget now that we are fighting terrorism, too?"
"If you don't shop at Wal*Mart, you've been paying too much!"

At any rate, it sounds better than the truth: "We need an increase in our budget because our leadership is totally incompetant, and we are now going to throw money at the problem... So support your city councilman's efforts to raise taxes and cut other municipal services!"

blackhawk2000
December 28, 2007, 05:56 PM
Numbers don't mean anything. I was at an FOP party, and was talking to some Detroit Officers. In case you didn't know Detroit is #1. Anyways they were talking about how they made #1 in spite of the city's efforts to cover up. 1 example I was given was a "triple suicide". The boyfriend, killed his kid, and his girlfriend, then killed himself. It's filed as a triple suicide.

elrod
December 28, 2007, 06:23 PM
"You just pull a trigger and 20 or 30 rounds come out in a second..........,totally unlike a firearm that is just one bullet every time you pull the trigger," Miami Police spokesman Willie Morono said.

This spokesman dosen't bother to point out that this is in violation of Federal and State law. No, it's the evil full-autos (which I seriously doubt being used) that mow down "innocent bystanders" as well as rivals. Whyinthehell dosen't someone in public office with just a little dab of common sense refute these outragous lies? :confused: I suppose the slope is a heap slipperier than we first thought! :cuss::fire::cuss:

Ed Ames
December 28, 2007, 07:01 PM
The fact that something is a violation of federal law doesn't mean it is or isn't a problem. It is entirely possible that there are completely illegal and unregistered fully automatic assault weapons being smuggled in along with cocaine and other illegal substances.

It is also possible that those weapons would be just fine in the hands of a law abiding person.

The problem is blaming the materials instead of the people. That's something that started a long time ago and has been institutionalized along with the drug war. So long as the drug war is diverting billions of entertainment dollars from legal and regulatable businesses into a black market, people who disregard our laws will have money, time, and incentive to import more than just drugs.

Mousegun
December 28, 2007, 07:16 PM
[quote]"If you don't shop at Wal*Mart, you've been paying too much!"[/QIOTE]

That part is true ;)

Neo-Luddite
December 28, 2007, 07:28 PM
That Richie Daley is a genius! Looking back on early 2007, when Monique announced that air guns needed to be registered but that 'few permits would be issued' I got warm and fuzzy.

Ms. Bond was down with the 'discretionary' issue of permits for a &*%$#
pellet gun. It just makes good sense.

Eagle103
December 28, 2007, 07:57 PM
Hmm. Guns are pretty darn easy to obtain around here but people don't seem to be shooting each other.

My theory on the declining homicide rate is that the age group associated with gangs, drugs, and murder are too busy playing video games these days. Locking up the bad guys doesn't hurt either.

benEzra
December 28, 2007, 08:37 PM
In Miami, authorities say the proliferation of assault weapons led to an increase in killings, from 56 in 2005 to 79 in 2006 and 86 so far in 2007.

"You just pull a trigger and 20 or 30 rounds come in a second and in those 20 rounds you're sure to hit your intended target and some innocent bystanders, totally unlike a firearm that is just one bullet every time you pull the trigger," Miami Police spokesman Willie Moreno said.
He gets the Clueless Talking Head of the Year award...and shame on the reporter for not doing five minutes' worth of research to straighten that out.

sctman800
December 28, 2007, 09:07 PM
I think another factor in Chicago having less killings is the city has been closing down the housing projects, forcing the residents move. Chicago killings may be down but downstate crime is up in many areas. In Vermilion county most of the shootings for the last couple years list either the shooter, the victim or both as having a Chicago adress or "formerly of Chicago.' Also a lot more gang signs have been showing up. Jim.

Standing Wolf
December 28, 2007, 09:49 PM
The bloodshed in Baltimore is blamed on entrenched poverty, widespread drug addiction, failing schools and easy access to guns.

That's a lie. Criminals are to blame for the bloodshed.

Zoogster
December 28, 2007, 09:52 PM
NYC has undergone severe gentrification, displacing most lower income residents, and therefore displacing most of the population that gang homicides stem from.

The city does not even resemble what it did. Places once known for being tough streets are now very expensive areas. Places like Harlem once known for being predominantly African American are now predominantly middle class with many previous residents relocted to cheaper places, and few African Americans.

Places like Brooklyn, the Bronx etc once known by name as tough rugged places are now very expensive upper middle class and the culture it was previously associated with can no longer afford to live there.
Many of them relocated to parts of Jersey and other nearby regions.

So far from any police victory, or social/political successes, the crime rate is a change of the city becoming too expensive for most of the population that commits the majority of crime to live.
Most of the problems simply are relocating.

The same is true for Chicago.

Even L.A. is seeing the same thing. Most of the population that commits most of the homicides cannot afford to live near downtown. They are moving inland.

nwilliams
December 28, 2007, 09:54 PM
:barf:

Of course they are going to credit their stances on gun control with a lower crime rate, so pathetic. Makes me glad I live in one of the free States.

frankie_the_yankee
December 28, 2007, 10:06 PM
Ed sez....
The fact that something is a violation of federal law doesn't mean it is or isn't a problem. It is entirely possible that there are completely illegal and unregistered fully automatic assault weapons being smuggled in along with cocaine and other illegal substances.

Begin rant:

And yet there are those who vigorously maintain that the present legal controls on machine guns are unconstitutional infringements on the 2A, and that we would be better off if anyone could buy any gun, including full autos, with no questions asked (i.e. no background check - another infringement) and carry it anywhere they went.

End rant:

None of this excuses the Miami chief's obvious lie. I've never seen a news report stating that actual full auto firearms were being used by Miami's criminal element. It's sad to say, but these days, you simply can't trust the news. Standards of journalism went down the toilet years ago. And the propagandists masqueradeing as journalists today will readily blur the distinction between semi and full autos if they believe that it serves a "cause" they believe in.

frankie_the_yankee
December 28, 2007, 10:10 PM
So far from any police victory, or social successes, the crime rate is a change of the city becoming too expensive for most of the population that commits the majority of crime to live.

Bingo!

You nailed it!

Ready2Defend
December 28, 2007, 10:31 PM
My pencils always got "D"s in spelling while I was in elementry school. It wasn't me, it was the pencils fault. If only their were an effective pencil ban in the 60's I would not have gotten all those bad grades.

Josh Aston
December 28, 2007, 10:49 PM
My pencils always got "D"s in spelling while I was in elementry school. It wasn't me, it was the pencils fault. If only their were an effective pencil ban in the 60's I would not have gotten all those bad grades.

It's not all the pencils. Just those vicious looking No. 2's, and those awful mechanical pencils. We should just ban any pencil that has a lead greater than .04" in diameter. And all mechanical pencils should be heavily restricted. Their manufacture must be ceased. Existing mechanical pencils can be used but you must have them registered and pay an exorbitant fee. That should fix everyone's spelling problems.

sig226
December 28, 2007, 11:23 PM
And yet there are those who vigorously maintain that the present legal controls on machine guns are unconstitutional infringements on the 2A, and that we would be better off if anyone could buy any gun, including full autos, with no questions asked (i.e. no background check - another infringement) and carry it anywhere they went.

Frankie you're free to suggest amendments to the constitution any time you like. But even when it doesn't say what you want, it is the law of the land and it is supposed to be obeyed.

frankie_the_yankee
December 29, 2007, 03:18 AM
Frankie you're free to suggest amendments to the constitution any time you like. But even when it doesn't say what you want, it is the law of the land and it is supposed to be obeyed.

The law of the land allows for background checks, registration of full autos, and all manner of local restrictions on the purchasing and carrying of guns.

You or I are perfectly free to have opinions on what we think the Constitution means, or what it should mean. But it is the courts, and ultimately The Supreme Court, that have the final word on what the Constituion does mean. And that defines what the law of the land is.

Not you or me.

The NFA has been on the books for 70 years now. There has been no successful challenge. And there isn't going to be, in my opinion.

If you believe it to be unjust, it is you that are in need of an amendment, not me.

No rights are unlimited, though many seem to wish some of them were. The courts must deal with conflicts between rights, and between rights and enumerated powers.

You and I are free to consult dictionaries, the opinions of others, or whatever source of information we please to form our own opinions as to what the Constitution means. And we should always have these issues in mind at the times when we get to exert our own influence on the process - when we step into a voting booth.

The courts and the case law they generate are what define what it does mean, at any point in time. Sometimes they get it wrong, in my opinion. (See Plessey v Ferguson, or the recent ruling on the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law.) And the corrective process can take many years. But that's the nature of the system, and how we achieve the rule of law - instead of the rule of the mob or simple anarchy.

Nomoney
December 29, 2007, 11:22 AM
"You just pull a trigger and 20 or 30 rounds come in a second and in those 20 rounds you're sure to hit your intended target and some innocent bystanders, totally unlike a firearm that is just one bullet every time you pull the trigger," Miami Police spokesman Willie Moreno said.

that comes out to 1,200 to 1,800 rounds per minute. Holy cow! I didn't our street thugs were totin' MG42s:eek:

Zoogster
December 29, 2007, 11:44 AM
In Miami, authorities say the proliferation of assault weapons led to an increase in killings, from 56 in 2005 to 79 in 2006 and 86 so far in 2007.

"You just pull a trigger and 20 or 30 rounds come in a second and in those 20 rounds you're sure to hit your intended target and some innocent bystanders, totally unlike a firearm that is just one bullet every time you pull the trigger," Miami Police spokesman Willie Moreno said.


So misleading and wrong in many ways. They mention "assault weapons" the same term usualy used in attacking semi auto firearms, and then cites 20-30 rounds firing in a second. Intentionaly misleading people to believe "assault weapons" (a term coined for semi auto rifles, pistols, and other weapons, not to be confused with "assault rifle")need more restrictions, ignoring the fact that all full auto weapons encountered in crime tend to be illegal already.

In addition it is just plain wrong as the most common illegal full auto comes from south of the border and are full auto AK-47s brought in by the drug trade. Well those illegal full auto AKs do not have a cyclic rate of anywhere near 20-30 rounds per second. In fact the max rate of fire for such a weapon is around 640 rounds per minute or less, which is about 10 rounds per second.
They are already highly illegal, importing them is highly illegal, and no additional laws are going to help whatsoever. They already give close to a life sentence for importation.
So the intent is obviously to confuse the public and encourage legislation to reduce the number of legal semi auto weapons.

frankie_the_yankee
December 29, 2007, 11:54 AM
So the intent is obviously to confuse the public and encourage legislation to reduce the number of legal semi auto weapons.

Precisely. Believe me the chief and the reporters covering this nonsense know exactly what they are doing and why.

Deanimator
December 29, 2007, 11:56 AM
So far from any police victory, or social/political successes, the crime rate is a change of the city becoming too expensive for most of the population that commits the majority of crime to live.
Most of the problems simply are relocating.

The same is true for Chicago.
I didn't visit my family in Chicago between 1986 and 1999. When I finally returned for a visit, the place had changed entirely. Places where poor people could afford to live were all now lofts and condos. It appeared to me that you now had to make $100,000 a year to live in the ghetto. The one telling thing I saw was the El tracks that used to go almost to the lake, that now stopped in mid-air far from the lake. It's almost as though Daley doesn't want certain people to be able to travel west too easily.

Of course the alacrity with which the Chicago PD lies about any and everything, from shootings to statistics, should surprise no one who's actually from Chicago.

Whenever I visit Chicago, I take Amtrak. As the train heads into downtown, the one thing that strikes you is how virtually EVERY home that can afford it has an 8' iron fence around it, and bars on the doors and windows. You don't see that where people can defend themselves and where you don't have to be as afraid of the police as you do private sector criminals.

swan hunter
December 29, 2007, 12:26 PM
:rolleyes:
The reason the killings are down is because of the price increase in AMMO!

Sure, you can buy a stolen gun on the street but that AMMO source has been drying up!!! And what hard working criminal can afford the new ammo prices!!!

No bullets to "cap a brutha" and homicides go down! :neener:


Full auto in Florida...Give me a break! Has anyone heard of ANY full auto shootings there? The news would be all over it!!!

Caimlas
December 29, 2007, 03:56 PM
My guess is that the statistics have been horribly manipulated for political means. A bunch of statistician were told, "find a way for us to use our crime statistics to prove that our crack down on guns has decreased crime" and they came up with this.

In NYC, I can sort of believe it, simply because of the Gullianian (er, Orwellian) crackdown on all types of crime.

All in all, I strongly suspect that these statistics are doctored, incomplete, or simply misleading, so as to create a false flag under which the anti-2nd Amendment people can fly their political bullsh*t this coming election.

Foosinho
December 29, 2007, 09:27 PM
The bloodshed in Baltimore is blamed on entrenched poverty, widespread drug addiction, failing schools and easy access to guns.
That's a lie. Criminals are to blame for the bloodshed.
No it's not. Three of those things breed criminals, and the fourth makes is easier to commit violent crime. Simply blaming "criminals" is tantamount to throwing your hands up and saying the problem is unfixable.

Keeping guns out of the hands of those with poor intentions - or at least making them difficult to acquire - does help. But so does reducing poverty, drug addiction, and fixing schools.

hnk45acp
December 29, 2007, 09:40 PM
All in all, I strongly suspect that these statistics are doctored, incomplete, or simply misleading, so as to create a false flag under which the anti-2nd Amendment people can fly their political bullsh*t this coming election.

I don't think that the data is doctored, it's just interpreted to aid whose ever side wants to push their points of view. You could easily say that letting the AWB expire and the increase in CCW nationwide has helped the natl crime stats down but it wouldn't necessarily be true either. Causation vs. correlation and all that. I live in NYC the reason why crime is down is because we have over 35,000 cops on the streets. As to why crime is up, it's a whole myriad of reasons and you'd be hard pressed to find any direct correlation with any and all above reasons mentioned in the article but that doesn't stop lazy journalists from making dramatic leaps of reasoning

Stephen21B
December 29, 2007, 09:46 PM
There are so many guns around here (central PA) that the market is saturated to the point where gun shops are selling $300 guns for $150 or less but I have yet to see a gun fight in the streets or at Wal-mart or at the local schools or here at Dunkin Donuts, At Fort Leonard Wood in MO where I'm currently stationed (home for the Holidays right now though) everyone has an assault rifle, there everywhere, in the barracks, in the chow hall, everywhere but I have yet to see a shooting there either, I know I'm just preaching to the choir but I really doubt the "assault" weapons are the problem actually I know they are not but thats not the point.

Stephen21B
December 29, 2007, 09:49 PM
There are so many guns around here (central PA) that the market is saturated to the point where gun shops are selling $300 guns for $150 or less but I have yet to see a gun fight in the streets or at Wal-mart or at the local schools or here at Dunkin Donuts, At Fort Leonard Wood in MO where I'm currently stationed (home for the Holidays right now though) everyone has an assault rifle, there everywhere, in the barracks, in the chow hall, everywhere but I have yet to see a shooting there either, I know I'm just preaching to the choir but I really doubt the "assault" weapons are the problem actually I know they are not but thats not the point.

Robert Hairless
December 29, 2007, 10:56 PM
There's a trick to hiring a statistician, accountant, chief financial officer, or anyone else who manages numbers. Michael Bloomberg, a billionaire, surely knows this trick.

When you interview candidates just ask "How much is 2 + 2?"

Then hire the first one who looks you straight in the eyes and asks "What would you like it to be?"

At any rate, I think it's wonderful that the homicide rate in those cities have declined so dramatically. There's no need now to spend any more tax money hunting down "illegal" guns. Let's give a rousing cheer for Mayors Bloomberg and Daley, then move on to other ways to harrass people and keep them in line.

iiibdsiil
December 30, 2007, 01:41 AM
Well, next time I get pulled over in Miami and they ask me why I need a gun in my car, I'll be sure to let them know Mr. Willie Moreno informed me that there are thugs in Miami with assault weapons that fire 20 rounds a second! We'll see how hard the cop laughs at that one...

buy guns
December 30, 2007, 10:25 AM
Of course the crime in Chicago will go down when you knock down the projects and force the residents to move into the south suburbs. My town sure as hell does not have the same population of people it did 5 years ago.

scout26
December 30, 2007, 05:43 PM
Wait a second, wait a second. The Brady's, VPC, etc. have been tellilng me that since the AWB expired, "Shoot First" laws have been passed that there's guns and blood in the streets.

Were they not telling the truth ???

scout26
December 30, 2007, 05:56 PM
And I also sent an E-mail to the Miami PD asking how many homicides were comitted with fully automatic firearms as described by Mr. Moreno.

If I get an answer, I'll post it here.

Davo
December 30, 2007, 06:03 PM
Even L.A. is seeing the same thing. Most of the population that commits most of the homicides cannot afford to live near downtown. They are moving inland.

I see youve met my neighbors.

stevereno1
January 1, 2008, 02:25 AM
Illinois and New York are so far to the left that they have become irrelevant in the political scheme of things. Just as the south has reddened it's Redness. A few states are left that are truly "swing states" and they are who decides national elections.

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