My Dad's pistol; 1911 style; please assist.


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ArmyAviator
December 28, 2007, 10:53 PM
This pistol was my Dad's; I lost him on APR 1; Mom handed it to me today. Please let me, preemptively, thank all the kind words surely to follow from you fine folks regarding his passing. Thank you.

All I know it that he said a friend had "built it" for him. It is feels like an aluminum alloy frame as it is lighter than most; it is in .45 ACP.

The frame has a stamp on it in the shape of a diamond standing on point with the initials RMT inside the diamond shape. Just above is: SO. EL NORTE (could be MONTE)
CALIF.

Then a serial #.

The bushing surrounding the end of the barrel is stamped N M. I assume that such may mean "national match"...?? It is as tight as can be; no "clacker" as with some service grades I've handled.

Sights are grossly basic; shoots fine, except with HP; they seem to stovepipe; ball never fails.

"Googling" has revealed a company called Ranger Machine and Tool in CA, though not El Norte; likely insignificant.

My only query is how to determine that this pistol is otherwise safe to shoot? Take it to a smith...?? Sure, I will. But they are rare here. Just thought I'd ask.

Thanks as always.

--Bryant

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Calhoun
December 28, 2007, 11:12 PM
Any pics?

ArmyAviator
December 28, 2007, 11:23 PM
I'll take some.

ArmyAviator
December 28, 2007, 11:45 PM
Here ya go.

The Lone Haranguer
December 28, 2007, 11:46 PM
Is this RMT in a diamond the only marking or logo on the gun? Could it be a gunsmith's initials or other trademark? If this were a pistol from another maker (usually this would be a Colt) that has been customized, the original maker's name should be on the gun. Edit: This was written before your pictures came up - LH

I am certain that is South El Monte, CA, there being no El Norte. Years ago there were a number of gun makers (usually of the cheaper kind, though) in this region of southern California.

I thought of AMT (Arcadia Machine and Tool), but they were in Irwindale (not far from South El Monte, actually), and their logo did not look like the one you described, being "AMT" with a wreath next to it. I also thought of - but rejected - Randall, a short-lived maker of some unique 1911s.

I know someone here will have some better info.

It looks like an "old timer" - to judge from the tiny tab projection on the thumb safety - to which an aftermarket bushing was added. The logo just does not ring any bells. :(

ArmyAviator
December 28, 2007, 11:49 PM
RMT is the only marking, save the N M on bushing and serial #. Doesn't appear to be anything fancy or top shelf.

And...not only does it stovepipe HP, it chambers such rounds "roughly"....ball chambers smoothly.

Thank you.

herohog
December 28, 2007, 11:52 PM
The slide looks like it has a LOT of pitting and almost looks painted. Complete different finish than the frame. I wonder if it is painted and there are any identifying marks under the paint... Have you looked under the grips for any more identifying marks?

herohog
December 28, 2007, 11:54 PM
And...not only does it stovepipe HP, it chambers such rounds "roughly"....ball chambers smoothly.
Show a pic of the chamber area. This issue sounds like something a 1911Tuner mentioned where someone get's carried away grinding on a 1911.

ArmyAviator
December 29, 2007, 12:05 AM
herohog.....lighting perhaps....wouldn't call it pitting. there is some "texture"...but I think I know pitting. The pattern of said texture is sorta swirled...like the pattern you see in "pot metal".

Just removed grips...frame has R.M.T
SO. EL MONTE CA.
CAL. .22 .38.9mm .45

ArmyAviator
December 29, 2007, 12:07 AM
chamber has stamped, on top side, 45 AUTO
NM7791414

And the barrel definitely looks "worked"....either soft grinding/hard buffing; take ur pick.

herohog
December 29, 2007, 12:11 AM
herohog.....lighting perhaps....wouldn't call it pitting. there is some "texture"...but I think I know pitting. The pattern of said texture is sorta swirled...like the pattern you see in "pot metal".
Looking at the Left-Side view at full size, (again) it still looks like paint over pitted metal. Look where the finish is worn away on the slide just above the end of the frame and look at the wear on the lower part of the slide at the front of the frame. I can't see the swirling you mention and it doesn't look like a sand-blasted finish either. Were it a .22 bore, I might have thought pot metal but not on a .45 slide.

stevereno1
December 29, 2007, 12:20 AM
when my dad died, he left me a taurus 85, a marlin 336, a marlin model 60, and a winchester model 70 in 30-06. I shoot them, and keep them clean. He used the model 85 to save himself from being robbed, and it is one of my prized possessions.

stevereno1
December 29, 2007, 12:22 AM
A lot of pitting and some holster wear. I'd replace the springs, and shoot the heck out of it, and pass it on to your kids.

ArmyAviator
December 29, 2007, 12:23 AM
Indeed, in the picture, looks like paint. And I see the wear; though it doesn't seem diff from wear off blueing. But I shant debate that with your knowledge; I'm "unarmed.":D

Was really looking at it's serviceability and why it might be stovepiping HPs and loading them so roughly...??

ArmyAviator
December 29, 2007, 12:25 AM
Hog...the other side is smooth as a babe.....so, comparatively, pits.

JWK
December 29, 2007, 01:34 AM
I remember those frames from Shotgun News adds in the 80's
They were $40 and called Ranger Frames
Santa Fe Arms was the company

possom813
December 29, 2007, 02:07 AM
Nothing extra to add, just fixed up the pics a little bit.

ArchAngelCD
December 29, 2007, 02:40 AM
ArmyAviator,
Mr. Browning designed the 1911 to fire Ball Ammo. There are a lot of 1911's out there that have problems chambering HP ammo, especially the older 1911's that were made to the original 1911 specs. Many of the newer 1911's like those made by Kimber have been modified to chamber HP ammo without a problem. You could probably have some work done to it so it will chamber HP ammo better but you might not want to have anyone mess with your Dad's pistol.

If you want to carry this pistol and want a good SD round that will chamber reliable I would suggest trying Federal's EFMJ Self Defense round. (load # PD45CSP2H)

From the Federal Site:
An ideal choice for agencies that don't permit hollow point ammunition, this revolutionary barrier-penetrating design combines a scored full metal nose over an internal rubber tip that collapses on impact. It never fills with barrier material and assures expansion on every shot. A lead core at the base maintains weight retention. Also an ideal personal defense option.
This ammo is probably the perfect solution you your problem without modifying the pistol.
You can take a look at it Here (http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/default.aspx).

ArmyAviator
December 29, 2007, 07:22 AM
Thank you, all. Possum, thanks for the pictures refinement.

ArchAngel, thanks for the advice on SD ammo.

Last question....CCW holster..?? I like the paddle style of Fobus, but have never had a 1911 before. Thoughts?

Rustynuts
December 29, 2007, 08:35 AM
EFMJ's "might" be better, but they are flat nosed similar to a JHP (just without the hole). The transition from flat to curve might be smoother though, depending on the brand of JHP. I've had EFMJ jam in 1911's. Just have to try out what your gun likes. If it still has feeding problems, PowrBall ammo might be better.

magnumcarry
December 29, 2007, 08:38 AM
Sorry..... nice to have Dad's gun.

Bullseye57
December 29, 2007, 10:13 AM
Sorry for your loss. It's nice that you have something to remember him by.

RMT was a frame manufacturer called Ranger Machine & Tool out of El Segundo, CA. That frame was likely a lightweight model based on your description. Ranger's quality is on par with Essex frames.

This gun was likely a parts gun, assembled by someone like Federal Ordnance out of El Monte, CA. Most of the parts I see are from a wide variety of manufacturers and some look like military surplus parts - especially that thumb safety. Federal Ordnance was know for assembling guns out of miscellaneous parts. They were later bought out by Bricklee Trading Company also of El Monte. Sorry this is not a high-dollar pistol, but it does hold some sentimental value for you.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye


http://guntalk-online.com/images/guntalk_logo_sm.jpg (http://guntalk-online.com/forum/index.php)

Katana8869
December 29, 2007, 10:39 AM
I don't really have anything to add about helping with your Dad's pistol, but I did want to say that I lost my Dad last October. One of the guns that he left me was his Springfield Trophy Match. That gun was his favorite and it is now one of my most treasured possessions. It means alot to have something like that around.

Mike

dsk
December 29, 2007, 04:35 PM
Strange. Today I saw a 1911 with an RMT frame at a pawn shop. I had never come across this manufacturer before, yet here's a second mention of one in the same day. Funny how things happen in twos and threes.

ArchAngelCD
December 29, 2007, 10:38 PM
I don't care for Fobus holsters. If you want a nice holster for your 1911 tale a look at the Don Hume J.I.T. Slide (http://www.donhume.com/Products/ProductsPage.cfm?ProductID=53) holster. The beauty of a 1911 is that's it's flat. no reason to use a holster that will make it budge under your shirt.

My son has this Belt Slide Holster (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=359179) I bought him from Sportsman's Guide which he likes a lot. It's only $19.97, made of good quality heavy leather and has a strong clip. The clip can be removed and you can use the belt slots. It can be worn IWB or on the outside of the belt. For the price I don't think it can be beat.

gc70
December 29, 2007, 11:43 PM
From NCIC's Gun Make Codes (http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cibmanuals/files/TIME/HTML/gunmakecodes.htm):

Ranger Machine & Tool (RMT) / US / RMT / Mfr. of frames

California's Secretary of State has the following information (http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C1044655):
RANGER MACHINE & TOOL CORP.
merged out 5/21/1981
with a service address in SOUTH EL MONTE, CA 91733

Here is a reference to RMT from another forum (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69469).

ulflyer
December 30, 2007, 08:32 AM
Looks like a GI trigger and safety.

TEDDY
December 30, 2007, 07:36 PM
looks like fed ord ranger.I bought fed ord frame and mounted gi parts.the one I have has white letering and frame is alum.its put away right or I would look for the logo.my son has a 1911 with AMC out of same area.my AMT are Covina,Cal.:uhoh::confused: :neener:
PS: that slide looks pitted and painted with cameo.get some
lead rd nose.I dont now how much pounding it will take mine is a target gun with mild swc.it should be safe to shoot.

Grizzly Adams
December 30, 2007, 10:54 PM
Had one come through my shop when I lived in Sacramento. The loading ramp can be smoothed up to feed HP. That's what I did to the one that was brought to me. Not the greatest of quality but a shooter.

Sorry about your Dad! If it were me, I think I'd just put it up as a keepsake. But then on the other hand, if its the only 1911 you have...

Ken Rainey
December 31, 2007, 12:12 AM
Sorry for your loss, my father passed away and I know it means a lot to have his firearms. If the frame is made of aluminum you may want to stick with hardball ammo, it is my understanding that some hollow point ammo can gouge aluminum feed ramps. :confused:

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