Recommend a FULL SIZE .380 ACP pistol


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kannonfyre
December 29, 2007, 11:48 AM
Where I live, the government specifies that they will only consider a handgun possession permit (CCW is IMPOSSIBLE to obtain) if the barrel is at least 4"s or more. With this in mind, what would you guys recommend for a good, reliable and durable pistol chambered in .380 ACP that has at least a 4" barrel length?

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kentucky_smith
December 29, 2007, 12:07 PM
Colt 1903 is the only thing that comes to mind.

Pilot
December 29, 2007, 12:46 PM
I just looked in my Beretta 84FS manual and it indicates the barrel length is only 3.81 inches. However, they also list a model I have never heard of here in the USA, but they may sell it in your country. Its an 83F and has a 4 inch barrel.

Rescue
December 29, 2007, 12:55 PM
Taurus PT58 has a 4" barrel.

There is a review (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270659&highlight=taurus).

Mot45acp
December 29, 2007, 01:11 PM
Are the laws also along the lines of "No military calibers" Hence the .380 parameters?



A lil more info please.

grimjaw
December 29, 2007, 01:11 PM
I'm not certain, but I think the 1903/1908 went to 3.75" barrels by the time they were chambered for .380 ACP.

You *could* get a Makarov PM, and then get an extended barrel here (http://www.makarov.com/cart/makbarrel.htm). That gives you a 4.5 .380 ACP barrel out of a still fairly compact pistol (if a bit heavy). Wouldn't cost that much for pistol or the new barrel.

jm

HisSoldier
December 29, 2007, 02:21 PM
Kind of a collector now, but the High Standard G380, the only centerfire pistol they made, made for only three years I think. The barrel may be just 4". I've wanted one for a while since I have a pile of .380's. My Star model S has a 4" barrel, by actual measure it is 3 15/16"

Josh Aston
December 29, 2007, 02:25 PM
Glock 25?

Jackal
December 29, 2007, 02:28 PM
I would say a CZ-83, but it has a 3.5" barrel.:(

hexidismal
December 29, 2007, 02:44 PM
As Pilot said, the 84FS has a 3.8" barrel. The 86FS on the other hand has a 4.4" barrel, and the 83FS has the 4". They tend to be excellent guns. I prefer the Beretta models to the similar Browning BDAs just for the frame mounted safety, as opposed to the slide mounted safety of the Browning.

Where I live, the government specifies that they will only consider a handgun possession permit (CCW is IMPOSSIBLE to obtain) if the barrel is at least 4"s or more.

Where's that ?

Pat Cannon
December 29, 2007, 03:33 PM
I don't get why a full sized .380 would even exist, unless it's the only ammo you can get. Personally I have a pistol for home defense mainly because I can also carry it. If you want a purely home defense weapon, why not a 12 gauge shotgun? As far as effectiveness goes, it'd be on another level from any handgun.

If you do have your heart set on a handgun, what about a .38 Special revolver?

DENALI
December 29, 2007, 05:49 PM
Your only option based on your statements would be the Glock-25 and as far as .380's go you'll never do better......................

biscuitninja
December 29, 2007, 06:56 PM
Humm... good question. I'd probably look at Colt 1911 in Super .38. Anyways good luck
-bix

Gary in Pennsylvania
December 29, 2007, 07:01 PM
I would say a CZ-83, but it has a 3.5" barrel.

Doesn't matter. I'd still say it anyway. :cool:

golden
December 29, 2007, 07:55 PM
This was the old BROWNING 1910 with a 4.5 inch barrel and target sights. It was made in order to get around U.S. import restrictions against small handguns.

weisse52
December 29, 2007, 08:07 PM
IT would be helpful to know if the 380 is dictated becuause of a requrement for non-military. IF so, the 38 Super suggestion is excellent.

A 4" 380 is going to be hard to find....I think.

grimjaw
December 29, 2007, 09:05 PM
golden, I had totally forgotten the 1971, shame on me! That's the year I was born. ;)

jm

boalex207
December 29, 2007, 10:18 PM
GLOCK 25. Not available in the United States, but I gather you live abroad.

usp9
December 29, 2007, 10:49 PM
HK P7 K3 has a 4.1" barrel, but they're mighty hard to find. Maybe a threaded barrel for a Beretta 84f would suffice.

kannonfyre
December 30, 2007, 03:05 AM
To one and all:

The stipulation of a 4" barrel or more applies to all pistol possesion permits issued in Singapore. The police regard short barrelled pistols as CCW pieces and since CCW licenses are nearly IMPOSSIBLE to obtain, they refuse to approve a license of a short barreled revolver or pistol.

No, there is no non military calibers only stipulation. Some folks here, after shelling out major license fees and waiting many weeks have gotten permission for the occasional 9mm, .40S+W and .45ACP handgun strictly for IPSC use only (race gun models).

The reason I have asked for a .380 auto full sized handgun is that I shoot best with handguns averaging about 200ft/lbs of muzzle energy or slightly less. Hence, i'm looking for a self shucking handgun that can manage decent double or tripple taps at 15 yards w/o the shooter having to practice like a maniac or be built like a pro wrestler.

To all who would ask me to consider a heavy 9mm pistol:

Been there done that 1 year ago. I can manage a 4" group under slow fire conditions at 15 yards but when double taps are attempted, the groups can best be described as "minute of FAT BLOATED couch potato". I shot a walther P88 but even with a CZ-85, the double tap groups were only slightly better.

The Lone Haranguer
December 30, 2007, 06:12 PM
Beretta 86 - 4.375 inches. (I have one, as well as a caliper.)

MachIVshooter
December 30, 2007, 09:27 PM
The reason I have asked for a .380 auto full sized handgun is that I shoot best with handguns averaging about 200ft/lbs of muzzle energy or slightly less. Hence, i'm looking for a self shucking handgun that can manage decent double or tripple taps at 15 yards w/o the shooter having to practice like a maniac or be built like a pro wrestler.

.380's, being blow-back, tend to buck more than conventional 9mm's. On that note, the ability to tolerate recoil has nothing to do with stature as far as handguns go. I've known BIG guys who flinched with .38's, yet my little sister (5'7", 130 pounds) shoots competitively with a 10mm and enjoys my .50 AE Desert Eagle.

I don't know the situation in Singapore, but here the US, 9x19mm is much less expensive the .380 ACP.

If you can possibly gain access to one, try shooting a CZ-75, Tanfoglio Force (Witness) or IWI Baby Eagle (Jericho).

Cowboy2
December 30, 2007, 10:30 PM
As you can see, there aren't a whole lot of full size .380s out there. As was mentioned above, a 1911 in .38 Super may be your best option.

Roswell 1847
December 30, 2007, 10:39 PM
Find a Swedish 1907 Browning thats been converted from 9mm Browning long to .380ACP. It was a common conversion after the 9mm Browning Long became obsolete.

The gun is a scaled up full sized version of the Colt 1903 pocket pistol. I hear its a very nice gun.
http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/m07/pist07_1.htm

Hoppy590
December 30, 2007, 11:33 PM
hi point 380 comp?
http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/handguns/380comp/hi_point_380comp.html

biscuitninja
December 31, 2007, 12:07 AM
Rock Island in .38 super. Is that doable?
-bix

DoubleTapDrew
December 31, 2007, 12:07 AM
Glock 25 (http://www.usglock.com/index_files/glock25.htm)

We can't get them in the US but if it's as reliable as the other Glocks it'll be a great carry gun, plus there should be holsters galore for it (I think it shares the frame with a g19).

dogtown tom
December 31, 2007, 12:48 AM
Have you ever fired a .380?

If you think that smaller cartridge equals less recoil you're mistaken. Depending on the weight of the pistol and the type of action (blowback, delayed blowback, Browning locked breech, recoil, etc) you may experience MORE recoil with a .380 than with a 9mm of similiar size. As an example I have a Browning BDA .380 that seems to recoil more than my Kahr K9 which is quite a bit smaller. The BDA while heavier and larger, is blowback operated, meaning more felt recoil.

As others have noted 9x19 is usually FAR cheaper in price compared to .380, allowing more practice.

rccola
December 31, 2007, 11:23 PM
Might be impossible to find, and probably crazy prices there, but the Steyr M9(old model) or M9A1 have a 4 inch barrel and supposedly very little felt recoil compared to other 9's. Wouldn't recommend buying it without firing it first, of course, but may want to see if you can find someone who has one and will let you shoot it. Just a thought.

TriggerMan
January 1, 2008, 10:27 AM
MachIVshooter, .380's, being blow-back, tend to buck more than conventional 9mm's.
Not all are, I have a great little Colt Mustang .380 that has a locked breech, it has much less recoil than several heavier blow-back .380's that I have shot.

NCHornet
January 1, 2008, 10:55 AM
The Sig P232 is IMO the finest 380 ACP ever made. Not sure if it quite 4" but I would look into it. Can't believe nobody has mentioned it up till now.
NCH

NCHornet
January 1, 2008, 10:58 AM
I just checked and P232 isn't a 4" to bad because as I said it is a awesome pistol.

MachIVshooter
January 1, 2008, 01:08 PM
Not all are, I have a great little Colt Mustang .380 that has a locked breech, it has much less recoil than several heavier blow-back .380's that I have shot.

OK, should have said most. I have 3 locked breech .380's, but it's not the norm for that chambering. Likewise, there are a few straight blowback designs in larger calibers, but 9mm and up are typically delayed blowback or short recoil operated in handguns.

JamisJockey
January 1, 2008, 01:54 PM
http://www.usglock.com/index_files/glock25.htm
· Caliber: .380

· Action: Safe Action System

· Length: 6.85 inch / 174 mm slide

· Height: 5.00 inch / 127 mm

· Width: 1.18 inch / 30 mm

· Length: 6.02 inch / 153 mm between sights

· Barrel Length: 4.02 inch / 102 mm· Barrel Rifling: Right, Hexagonal

· Length of Twist: 9.84 inch / 250 mm

· Magazine Capacity: 15 / 17 Subject to local laws and regs.

· Gun Weight: 20.11 oz / 570 g empty without magazine.

· Magazine Weight: 2.40 oz / 68 g empty

· Magazine Weight: 7.2 oz / 204 g Full. Approximate subject to ammunition type.

· Trigger Pull: 5.5 lbs / 2.5 kg

· Trigger Travel: .5 inch / 12.5 mm

· Number of Safeties: 3

Kymasabe
January 1, 2008, 10:20 PM
Beretta...made one with an open slide like the 92...I can't remember the name of it. I think it was the Cheetah but I'm not sure, may have had a number designation too. Only saw one once, fantastic gun, wish I owned one.

EDIT: a little research found it's called the Beretta Cheetah 84 FS.

Alan Fud
January 3, 2008, 04:09 AM
I have a Browning BDA .380 that seems to recoil more than my Kahr K9 which is quite a bit smaller. The BDA while heavier and larger, is blowback operated, meaning more felt recoil.My BDA380 kicks like a .22 -- I barely notice it. Now, my J-frames, on the other hand, really pack a wholop!

jon_in_wv
January 5, 2008, 02:27 AM
The Beretta and Browning BDA fullsize(relatively) 380s are a really good option. They have large well shaped grips that lend themselves well to absorbing recoil. They are also very reliable and accurate.

golden
January 6, 2008, 09:48 AM
I used to live in CANADA which also has a 4 inch rule and the GLOCK 19 was not legal there because the barrel was about 3 milimeters under the legal limit. It may be the same in SINGAPORE. This would make the GLOCK 25 illegal.

The BERETTA model 86 WAS LEGAL as the barrel was well over 4 inches.

The BROWNING BDA and BERETTA model 84 and 85 were to short to sell in CANADA.

The BROWNING 1971 also known as the model 10/71 or 1910/71 would be legal and has large target sights. You may want to check it out. I think the BERETTA 86 might be a better combat pistol.

Good luck

Jim

lksseven
August 31, 2008, 11:20 PM
moving to a different locale? :)

VHinch
August 31, 2008, 11:32 PM
Have you considered....

Checking the date on the thread before replying?

Loomis
August 31, 2008, 11:38 PM
I wonder if kannonfyre ever got his pistol?

neviander
September 1, 2008, 12:27 AM
Cheetah
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll158/neviander/trinity-blast.jpg
I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but this thread has been rezzed.

kannonfyre
January 7, 2009, 11:17 PM
I don't mean to resurrect a dead thread but my initial purchase of a .380 pistol was sidetracked by the purchase of a match grade walther GSP .32 S+WL pistol for taking part in ISSF events.

Now that I have finally saved up enough money for another gun, I have placed a deposit with my chosen gun dealer for a beretta model 84 cheetah in .380ACP (apparently he has a special batch of pistols whose barrels fit the 4" rule). Assuming that the police eventually approve my ownership permit, (i do not live in the US) I have three questions for all cheetah owners on THR.

1) What should I look out for when using a model 84? Are there any handling quirks that are present in this pistol that are not present in other guns?
2) What kind of accuracy can I expect? What ammo does it like or dislike?
3) Is there anything I can do to extend the lifespan of the gun?

earlthegoat2
January 8, 2009, 12:24 AM
Browning/Beretta BDA is the best 380 that I know of. I think it would fall in the category of compact though not fullsize.

polekitty
January 8, 2009, 12:27 AM
I tend to agree with almost everybody! (I'm easy to get along with!) You know, I just never did understand this "double tap" stuff. Why some of these competition people even bother with it just makes no sense to me. It's not "real world" so why bother competing with it? I've never touched a 380--I did consider them a few times but looked at the price of ammo and decided a 9 made a lot more sense. Double taps? Heck, if I hit him the first shot with my 45 why even bother trying a "double tap?" I've tried double taps with my 9 at a distance of about five feet and decided it's a waste of time!

Loomis
January 8, 2009, 12:45 AM
Berettas are very high quality firearms. You can expect to be impressed. It will be a long lived pistol...kinda like this thread!

speedsix
January 8, 2009, 08:06 AM
FWIW the Taurus is a full sized .380. It is like a compact PT92 or Beretta 92.

I saw one at the gunshow last week and I was shocked when I saw the caliber. I assumed it was a 9mm due to the size.

So, if anyone ever wants a true full sized .380 for some reason, the Taurus PT58 fits the bill.

Rex B
January 8, 2009, 12:28 PM
".380's, being blow-back, tend to buck more than conventional 9mm's"

I have 13 .380s, of which only 3 are blowback.

The rest are either locked breech like a 1911, linked barrel, or a cammed barrel lug.

The blowback guns are are a bit snappier, but none as much as my 9mm Keltec, which is similar in size and weight to the Bersa .380. I have to pay attention to tell the difference in recoil between the two types of .380.

The 1911-style .380s are about the most pleasant guns I own. They have enough recoil for personal satisfaction, without moving the muzzle more than a couple inches. Very easy to get back on target for a quick followup.

gazpacho
January 9, 2009, 02:03 AM
The 84F is a fine weapon, and I would have no quams owning one.

FWIW, My personal choice would have been the Taurus PT58. I've shot one once, and it was a rediculously easy to put a lot of ammo into the 10 ring at 10 yards as fast as I could pull the trigger.

The Beretta 86 would be my second choice.

I have a CZ-83 in 32acp, and it is a wonderful weapon also.

ZO6Vettever
January 9, 2009, 09:42 AM
That Hi-Point is one butt ugly gun and heavy enough to use as a club if it don't go bang!

wrxguyusa
January 9, 2009, 09:55 AM
I don't mean to resurrect a dead thread but my initial purchase of a .380 pistol was sidetracked by the purchase of a match grade walther GSP .32 S+WL pistol for taking part in ISSF events.

Now that I have finally saved up enough money for another gun, I have placed a deposit with my chosen gun dealer for a beretta model 84 cheetah in .380ACP (apparently he has a special batch of pistols whose barrels fit the 4" rule). Assuming that the police eventually approve my ownership permit, (i do not live in the US) I have three questions for all cheetah owners on THR.

1) What should I look out for when using a model 84? Are there any handling quirks that are present in this pistol that are not present in other guns?
2) What kind of accuracy can I expect? What ammo does it like or dislike?
3) Is there anything I can do to extend the lifespan of the gun?

I've shot a few hundred rounds through the cheetah before I sold it to a co-worker. No failures with anything. It is a wonderful gun. Accuracy is excellent and the fit and finish is among the best I've seen. The only downside I had was that it was too difficult to operate the slide for my gf and I had to make room for bigger and better guns.

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