Quieter range shooting - "Silencer box" idea


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Fumbler
December 30, 2007, 05:40 PM
My girlfriend's parents recently bought a house on a long 12 acre tract. Most of it is wooded.
My first reaction to the news that they were buying a house in the country was "heck yeah, I can shoot whenever I want!"
However, after visiting the house I've realized there are houses somewhat close. Not too close to be unsafe to shoot, but close enough for my shooting to bug people.
There is a safe shooting direction in the rear of the house where I can angle the shots towards a very large block of timber, so it is safe. I've personally limited myself to shooting rimfires and the occasional handgun.

My issue is this: while shooting on this land is perfectly legal and safe, I want to be a good neighbor by trying to keep the sound down. I would like to continue shooting rimfires and the occasional handgun but want to make it even quieter.

I've thought about building a box, maybe 2x2x4 ft out of plywood and scrap 2x4s.
Inside the box I'd put in plywood baffles ever 8 inches or so.
Also, I'd line the inside of the box with carpet.
The ends of the box and the baffles will have holes cut into them approximately 6x8" in the center to allow muzzle/bullet clearance. Maybe the side closest to me will have slightly larger holes so I can hold the pistols inside the box.
Hopefully I'll have a picnic table to put it on and I'd try to keep it small enough to move it into their basement for storage while I'm not using it.


Do yall think it would help reduce the sound?
Has anyone tried making a similar item?
What design changes would anyone recommend?


If no one's tried it then I'd take lots of pics of the progress and post some directions as well as post about the box's performance.
Hopefully someone's had some experience and can share their ideas. I'd hate to put some money into building something that doesn't work.

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doc2rn
December 30, 2007, 05:47 PM
Some say to practice shooting with the Colibri ammo, as it is super quiet.

Zundfolge
December 30, 2007, 05:49 PM
I've seen similar setups by lashing together 3 or 4 old used tires and filling them with fiberglass insulation and hanging them from an old swingset frame.

Jim M
December 30, 2007, 05:53 PM
In the May-June 1988 issue of Handloader Magazine (No. 133), Ken Waters had an article on “Building a Range Sound Reducer.” His sound baffle was built from 2" X 3" stringers and 1/2" plywood. It was a large box, set up in his indoor shooting range. If you can find access to that issue of Handloader Magazine, I suggest taking a look at that.

Wolfe Publishing company sells DVDs of back issues one year at a time, as I recall.

Jim M.

Fumbler
December 30, 2007, 06:01 PM
Thanks for the info. I'll see if I can find anything,

I've seen similar setups by lashing together 3 or 4 old used tires and filling them with fiberglass insulation and hanging them from an old swingset frame.
Does that work?
If that works then maybe my box will be better because the holes in the baffles will be smaller.

Some say to practice shooting with the Colibri ammo, as it is super quiet.
Good idea, but two of my 3 rimfires are semiauto and Colibri won't cycle them.
Also, if the box works then it'd allow me to shoot my handguns :)

rust collector
December 30, 2007, 06:06 PM
This begs for a suppressor on your rimfire, but it gets a bit expensive for multiple guns and could creep out the GF's parents. Other options would be lining a plastic 55 gal drum with anechoic "finger-foam" such as is used in hardcases for guns and cameras.

In fact, if you were fairly handy, you might craft a silencer box from a couple two-gun hardcases which have such foam inside. You'd have to make some brackets which would fasten them together in the open position, but you could then take them apart to store them or even to use them for their intended purpose.

Another possibility is a roll end of cheap carpet or astro-turf, rolled inside out with a big enough opening inside to suit your purposes.

I would feel better about it if you had a backstop that kids could not be playing in, such as a dirt berm or dugout, but I know you will take precautions to insure safety.

Fumbler
December 30, 2007, 06:16 PM
The site my girlfriend and I shoot at is slightly elevated, shooting into a very shallow valley, so it's very safe. I guess it's a natural berm with a large block of woods behind it. You can see anyone coming from any angle.

Silencers would be very nice, but that's a $200 tax, cost of threading barrels, cost of the silencer, would only work on my 22s, and would really creep her parents out.:uhoh:

spencerhut
December 30, 2007, 07:49 PM
I've done this and while it does work, sort of, it's a pain in the ass. Once you set it up it's only good for sighting in rifles and chronograph use on all weapons.
My box is 2x2x4 3/4 plywood with baffles every 6 - 8 inches filled with foam. It turns the initial hard crack into a low, loud rumbling boom. You still get the crack from the round breaking the sound barrier, if it's going that fast. Use glue and screws or any large cal rifle use will blow it apart.

AirplaneDoc
December 30, 2007, 08:01 PM
If there are lots of trees, you might want to do a test first to see how loud the gunfire is at close by houses. Have someone head over there and someone take a single shot. In college I lived a couple of blocks from a railroad track, in the winter you could hear it pretty well outdoors, but in the summer, when leaves were out train was not at all noticable.

You might be surprised what a few trees will do to deaden sound.

Did you consider shooting back in the wooded area? Not as convient as shooting off the back porch, but it might be a lot better in Summer as you would be in a shaded area.

ClarkEMyers
December 30, 2007, 08:05 PM
Gun Digest had at least one article on the same idea. Notice that shooting over carpeting will eventually give a serious fire hazard as unburned powder accumulates. Make it easy to clean and keep clean or as you see fit.

M2 Carbine
December 30, 2007, 08:39 PM
I haven't built a "Silencer Box", so I can't help you with that but this is a concern.

There is a safe shooting direction in the rear of the house where I can angle the shots towards a very large block of timber, so it is safe

What is a large block of timber?
You are totally responsible to make sure that no bullet leaves your property.
I have ten acres of woods and I wouldn't think of trusting that all bullets would be stopped by the trees.
Even if it were safe, the neighbors wouldn't think too much hearing bullets zinging through the woods.
Build some kind of backstop that will positively stop anything you might shoot.

I've had my range since 1967, so my neighbors moved in later.
To my knowledge no one has ever said a thing about my shooting.

I would suggest, if possible, that you talk to the close neighbors and head off any trouble before it starts.
You might approach them with the idea that you don't want to disturb them unnecessarily with your shooting.
You might say something like, if they sleep late you wouldn't shoot too early, etc.

Chances are there may be people around there that are shooting.
Around here I hear 4 or 5 people shooting.

RKBABob
December 30, 2007, 09:12 PM
I've thought about building a box, maybe 2x2x4 ft out of plywood and scrap 2x4s.
Inside the box I'd put in plywood baffles ever 8 inches or so.
Also, I'd line the inside of the box with carpet.
The ends of the box and the baffles will have holes cut into them approximately 6x8" in the center to allow muzzle/bullet clearance. Maybe the side closest to me will have slightly larger holes so I can hold the pistols inside the box.WHOA! That sounds like a lot of work!

How about this: Get your hands on an old garbage can. Cut out the bottom, and build a stand for it at the appropriate height. Next, get some fiberglass wool insulation (fire-resistant, you know) and glue it into the inside of the can. Viola!

No, I haven't tried this... but I'd imagine it would work... and it would be much lighter to carry, and easier to make. Fiberglass is still cheap enough to throw out if unburned powder accumlates in it. (Wear your safety glasses, fiberglass may go flying!)

Also, you might want to take your head out of it every couple of shots and look around your range to be safe.

Slugless
December 30, 2007, 09:20 PM
It's surprising how sound travels according to weather, terrain, foliage, etc.

I've talked to a couple neighbors about my shooting and have been surprised at what they've been annoyed at. Terrain esp. can channel & reflect sound quite dramatically.

Arroyos can channel and seems to concentrate sound as the sound travels up them.

A berm or valley sides can reflect sound back towards your neighbors living uphill.

As part of my good neighbor policy I've been playing around with subsonics (not all semi's like 'em, though) and for longer sessions just drive out a couple miles in the BLM.

The subsonic ammo was a great excuse to buy a Remington 572. :evil:

Good on you for being a good neighbor.

Fumbler
December 30, 2007, 11:11 PM
I've done this and while it does work, sort of, it's a pain in the ass. Once you set it up it's only good for sighting in rifles and chronograph use on all weapons.
My box is 2x2x4 3/4 plywood with baffles every 6 - 8 inches filled with foam. It turns the initial hard crack into a low, loud rumbling boom. You still get the crack from the round breaking the sound barrier, if it's going that fast. Use glue and screws or any large cal rifle use will blow it apart.
Cool.
How's it sound with rimfires?
How big are the holes in your baffles?

If there are lots of trees, you might want to do a test first to see how loud the gunfire is at close by houses.
Standing at the front of the property gives us a good idea of the sound. It's not loud with rimfires, but I imagine it could be annoying to some people.

Did you consider shooting back in the wooded area? Not as convient as shooting off the back porch, but it might be a lot better in Summer as you would be in a shaded area.
The spot we shoot at actually is wooded.
However, most of the trees for the surrounding 4 or so acres are hardwoods. They'll probably dampen noise real well when the leaves are out.

What is a large block of timber?
You are totally responsible to make sure that no bullet leaves your property.
I said it was safe. Trust me.
Just to shoot horizontally you'd have to aim 15° higher and then you're still looking at the side of a valley whos ridge is about 20' higher in elevation than your line of sight.
The line of sight goes almost through the middle of a 300 acre block of overstocked 20-25 year old loblolly pines. Past the other side of the woods, about a mile over ag fields, is a low traffic highway.

Chances are there may be people around there that are shooting.
Around here I hear 4 or 5 people shooting.
Generally the area is gun friendly. There are no transplanted city folk. Actually last time I went duck hunting we heard shotguns from 3 different locations, probably all within half a mile.

Also, you might want to take your head out of it every couple of shots and look around your range to be safe.
I only shoot there when my girlfriend is with me.

Big Boomer
December 30, 2007, 11:50 PM
best sound deadening devices are that of the "egg carton" foam they make some that is about 5" thick, cover that with some washable cloth and you should have a pretty sound proof box.

sig226
December 31, 2007, 01:02 AM
This exact same question was asked and answered on either FreeRepublic.com or TedNugent.com a while back. Here's the same answer: If you build a device that is intended to silence the report of a firearm and you do not register it as a silencer, you have made an illegal silencer and you have violated the National Firearms Act.

When you get caught, you be charged with a federal crime and everything you own will be lost in effecting your guilty plea. It will suck. Don't do it.

gunmn74
December 31, 2007, 01:31 AM
I have seen a pic on sixgunner (currently down so no link) where a guy
has his whole basement dedicated to reloading and has a hole out of his
basement to his range. He built a false wall in the basement and had the
space between the wall and the outside filled with egg carton foam.
The muzzel passed the first wall but did not protrude outside the house
so the muzzel blast was eaten up by the insulation.
I would say that is the type of box you are thinking about.

Fumbler
December 31, 2007, 01:55 AM
This exact same question was asked and answered on either FreeRepublic.com or TedNugent.com a while back. Here's the same answer: If you build a device that is intended to silence the report of a firearm and you do not register it as a silencer, you have made an illegal silencer and you have violated the National Firearms Act.
You're wrong.
It falls under the NFA only if it is attached to the gun.

If you shoot a gun inside a barn out the door then is the BATF going to come sieze your barn and throw you in jail?:rolleyes:

Boomerang
December 31, 2007, 02:48 AM
Get a 22 rifle silencer.
I think your girlfriend's parents would probably be more skeeved out by the silencer-box-junk on their new property.

bogie
December 31, 2007, 03:03 AM
Sig, you're sounding like a gun store commando... Following that set of rules, earmuffs and earplugs would be illegal to own... much less the doors and weatherstripping on indoor ranges. Please don't scare the other shooters.

A suppressor only becomes an NFA item if it is physically affixed to the firearm. For instance, if you thread a piece of pipe to screw on to your barrel, and that piece of pipe is screwed into the box o' deadening, then you've got an NFA item. If all you are doing is sticking the business end inside the box o' deadening before yanking on that trigger thingy, you're good to go.

www.partsexpress.com sells the good "sound studio" foam.

Fumbler
December 31, 2007, 03:45 AM
Get a 22 rifle silencer.
I think your girlfriend's parents would probably be more skeeved out by the silencer-box-junk on their new property.
That's why I'm trying to keep it portable;)
Hopefully I could move it with a hand truck.

Shootist1
December 31, 2007, 12:44 PM
Fumbler...
A couple of the suggestions would work, as Spencerhut's design indicates--with .22s and handguns, you shouldn't have any real problem. As he says, it's tough (read: nigh impossible!) to kill the sound of a large caliber rifle.

I write a column on shooting sports for four magazines, and have an affinity for shooting high-powered rifles. I live in a semi-rural area well outside city limits that like all suburban areas is becoming too "citified." My family settled on 60+ acres of land out here over 40 years ago, and we have all built on the place. I now have a subdivision about 2000 feet away through woods and fields.

I love to shoot my guns, but was worried about the offensive "crack" of the large rifles. There is still quite a bit of small game hunting around here, and everyone hears shotguns fairly regularly. No one is offended by this noise as far as I can tell, although locals frequently mention they heard me shooting when what they heard was someone hunting squirrels with shotguns, or a neighbor shooting clay pigeons.

Realizing that what offends and scares people is the noise, I searched for a way to cut it down so I would be a good neighbor, and still be able to shoot my big rifles when I wanted. Incidentally, I am shooting in a safe direction into a large dirt berm in front of thick second-growth brush and woods--and no habitation in that direction for miles.

I built a "shooting tube" out of a 12' corrugated plastic drainage culvert and two 55 gallon plastic drums. They have an outside diameter of 23". The inside diameter of the plastic culvert is 24". The drums, with 1-foot diameter holes cut in the ends, fit inside the culvert like they were machined to fit.

I lined the inside of it with batt insulation, placing "chicken" wire inside which was rolled into tube shape. The wire springs out and holds the insulation in place. And I drape old carpet over the whole thing.

To all the "I haven't tried it, but it should work" suggestions, I can tell you it is doggone hard to kill the sound of a high-powered rifle--when I shoot through my "shooting tube" as my fellow shooters call it, it's still loud--very loud. But the sonic "crack" is gone, and it sounds more like a very loud shotgun (re: Spencerhut's comments.)

I applaud your attempts to be a good neighbor--as long as we all continue to consider the sensibilities of our neighbors and non-shooters, we will be able to enjoy our sport with a minimum of harassment.

And incidentally, pictures of the tube accompanied the column I wrote on this very subject in Louisiana Sportsman magazine--with a readership of over 100,000 outdoorsmen. And I never heard a single comment about an illegal "silencer."

Here's the link to the article and photo.
http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=181

Good Luck.

Gordon Hutchinson
Author (with Todd Masson) of "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab" and "The Quest and the Quarry."

P.S. My next experiment will be to purchase a 40' shipping container. I will place it so it runs lengthwise with my range. I intend to store my shooting stuff in it, and cut holes in each end I can seal off. I will set up my shooting bench at one end and fire lengthwise at the berm through it. I'm fairly sure an 8' X 8' X 40' steel shipping container will contain the noise adequately. I know this is more pricey than most folks would consider, and no, I'm not indepently wealthy, but Hey!--I like to shoot on my own land, and don't want to lose that safe, entertaining hobby because some neighbor a half-mail away complains about the noise.

P.P.S. Incidentally--I had a friend whose dad tried the same trick with old tires, and he said it really cut down the noise. I tried it, hanging them in a row, compressing them together and stuffing insulation in the cracks and openings. I set it up on my 200 yard range--the results were less than spectacular. The "shooting tube" is much more effective--and like I said, it still is noisy. However, you can barely hear a .22 fired through it.

Selfdfenz
December 31, 2007, 01:03 PM
Shootist1

Outstanding! This is almost identical to what I had considered this past summer but when I priced the culvert it was way over $100, more like $200. And that's just the 24' pipe. Did or do you have a special idea where to get the pipe cheap?

I'm only interest in being able to shoot 22LR HV @ 50 yards in the back yard but my neighors are very "next door" so I need a highly efficient system. How long would I need to get the 24" pipe to cover a supersonic 22 LR assuming I had the blue barrels at each end and the internal insulation you describe.

Much obliged in advance and a HNY to you sir.

S-

Shootist1
December 31, 2007, 01:23 PM
Selfdfenz (Boy! I had to look at that several times to spell it right.)

I managed to finagle the tube from a couple of spares left over from a construction site. They were putting in a neighborhood next to a friend's property. He got friendly with the foreman, mentioned he had a friend looking for a culvert, and the foreman rolled it into his yard. I was lucky. Had I known how well it was going to work I probably would have bought one. I think it will really kill your rimfire sounds. And I think with a rimfire, you could probably get by with an 8' culvert. I have actually considered getting another 12' tube and connecting it via the 55 gallon drum, to extend it and kill the sound even more. I will tell you this, it's been fun playing with it.

Fumbler
January 1, 2008, 03:50 AM
Thank you for the input shootist :)

Maybe within the next month I'll have this project drawn out and ready to build.
I'll keep yall updated.

Aguila Blanca
January 1, 2008, 11:58 AM
The line of sight goes almost through the middle of a 300 acre block of overstocked 20-25 year old loblolly pines. Past the other side of the woods, about a mile over ag fields, is a low traffic highway.
Stop right there.

Your original post said your GF's parents bought a 12-acre lot. Now you're talking about a 300-acre woodlot. Your GF's parents may think they have some control over who might be wandering around on their property, but they have ZERO control over who might be on 300 acres that don't belong to them, or out working in those fields you mention as if they don't count.

Don't go counting on other people's property for the safety of YOUR shooting. You have a responsibility to be 100 percent certain where every one of your rounds goes, and where it stops. And that means they stop on YOUR (GF's) property.

Fumbler
January 2, 2008, 12:50 AM
How about you all quit questioning whether or not it's safe.
All of the shots land on the property (because we are shooting DOWN). My point about the woods is that a stray shot (which should not happen) would be very unlikely to do damage.

:rolleyes:

ClarkEMyers
January 2, 2008, 12:31 PM
I'd expect a well thought out sound baffling system to contribute to making the setup a safety range - that is build the baffle to stop any bullet fired away from the target and so direct fire to the berm and only to the berm. If a bullet cannot leave the range no matter what angle fired at then it's pretty safe - just have somebody alerted for kabooms that mean the shooter needs first aid and can't communicate.

MD_Willington
January 2, 2008, 02:45 PM
Have you met any of the neighbors, maybe they like to shoot too?

F4GIB
January 2, 2008, 03:07 PM
If you shoot a gun inside a barn out the door then is the BATF going to come seize your barn and throw you in jail?

No.

They'll just burn it down after locking your entire family inside. Didn't you see The Patriot?

Fumbler
January 2, 2008, 09:04 PM
They'll just burn it down after locking your entire family inside. Didn't you see The Patriot?
Hehehe

Have you met any of the neighbors, maybe they like to shoot too?
I only know one of the neighbors and they actually live in another town (no one in their house).
I haven't met the other neighbor and I don't think her parents have met them either.

I'm not concerned with just the direct neighbors. There're probably 6-8 houses within half a mile opposite the direction of fire.
I don't want to bother meeting all of them. I honestly don't care if they don't like guns.
I guess I'm acknowledging that while it may be perfectly legal and safe to shoot guns, I could at least attempt to make it less annoying for others.

tsidorus
January 2, 2008, 11:37 PM
Not to jump on the whole is it safe issue (ok kinda) but have you ever watched tracers. Rounds bounce and ricochet a whole lot more than what you would expect. If your gonna shoot you should set up a berm (just get a 100 dollar load of dirt or something). Just Something to ensure your rounds are absorbed by the target. Just shooting towards the ground makes a pretty poor backstop. If you dont believe me buy some 9mm tracers and watch where everything goes...

-Tsi

Fumbler
January 3, 2008, 03:00 AM
I'm shooting INTO a valley.
I don't need a berm.

What don't you get?

tsidorus
January 3, 2008, 07:17 AM
Im just saying that your Valley may not contain a round when it ricochets and is now traveling on a 45 degree angle to the ground. If nothing else it will likely leave the 12 acres of land and go god knows where else. Try shooting some tracers you'll see.

-now if only my 7month old daughter will GO TO SLEEP she's on a real 2 am is playtime kick...


-Tsi

Roswell 1847
January 3, 2008, 07:22 AM
A cardboard sweeping compound drum with scrap foam rubber glued inside would be lightweight and cheap.

Occasionally spraying the foam with water from an old glass cleaner bottle would prevent fire from unburned powder.

Travis McGee
January 3, 2008, 09:17 AM
As far as a safe easy backstop that will safely stop even the biggest magnum rifles, try this. Get a half dozen old scrap tractor tires, and stack them up. Then fiill the entire column with dirt. You can blast this thing forever, and it just keeps eating bullets that never leave it.

Travis McGee
January 3, 2008, 09:19 AM
Fumbler, relying on woods to stop any stray rounds is not wise. Murphy's law says that a tresspassing teenager up to no good on your land will take that rare stray round in the forehead, and his family will sue you to poverty.

You must KNOW where your bullets are stopping, not guess or hope.

Fumbler
January 3, 2008, 07:14 PM
Fumbler, relying on woods to stop any stray rounds is not wise. Murphy's law says that a tresspassing teenager up to no good on your land will take that rare stray round in the forehead, and his family will sue you to poverty.

You must KNOW where your bullets are stopping, not guess or hope.

How about you all quit questioning whether or not it's safe.
All of the shots land on the property (because we are shooting DOWN). My point about the woods is that a stray shot (which should not happen) would be very unlikely to do damage.

Do you go to an outdoor range and criticized them by telling them their berms (I HAVE A NATURAL BERM) and woods aren't going to stop their stray bullets?

The issue of safety has come up and I have addressed it.


This is the last time I'll respond to this BS.

spencerhut
January 18, 2008, 07:31 PM
My first hole in the box is 14", each hole is slightly smaller with the final hole being 8"

Rimfire, never tried it. But then I shoot rimfire rifles with no earplugs all the time. Rimfire pistols hurt me so I wear foamies when shooting rimfire pistol. I use the box for my .223 and larger rifles and occasionally a pistol since my chrono is attached to the end of it.

Piney Woods
January 20, 2008, 02:25 PM
A friend of mine had a setup in his backyard that worked really well. He bolted ten old tires together to form a baffled tunnel. He supported it on a wooden frame in front of his shooting bench so that the muzzle of his rifle extended into the tunnel about 6". The baffling effect of the tire walls definitely quieted down the report and the soft tire material probably worked better than hard wood at absorbing some of the sound. He added a wooden baffle at the near end with a hole just big enough to sight and shoot thru to cut down the reflected sound. I don't know if stuffing insulation into the tires would have helped - it may have negated some of the baffling effect of the tire sidewalls. At any rate, it worked well enough that he didn't bother trying to improve it and the neighbors really noticed the difference. The guy next door (about 400' away) said shooting thru the tires made it sound like the shot was far off, like on the other side of a hill.

It was pretty cheap; he got the used tires free from the local tire dealer who didn't have to pay a recycling charge, the frame was built from scrap 2x4s left over from his garage, and the bolts (three per tire pair) only cost him a few bucks.

JohnKSa
January 20, 2008, 02:43 PM
The line of sight goes almost through the middle of a 300 acre block of overstocked 20-25 year old loblolly pines.All of the shots land on the property...I HAVE A NATURAL BERM
Trees are not a backstop.
The ground is not a natural berm unless it is free of rocks, puddles, any other hard materials such as wood or metal, AND the bullets strike it at between a 45 and 90 degree angle. The closer to 90 the better, 45 degrees of slope is the absolute minumum.
Bullets do not "land" unless they are fired at a very steep upward angle.

It's not enough to say that it's unlikely bullets will leave the property, every reasonable effort must be made to INSURE that they don't leave the property. Bullets can travel for VERY long distances after a ricochet.This is the last time I'll respond to this BS.Try that on the cops. ;)

Fumbler
January 24, 2008, 02:04 PM
OK, one last time.

Trees are not a backstop.
No, they aren't a backstop nor do I use them for one.
I'm shooting down towards the opposite side of a valley.
The azimuth of my line of sight is towards the timber, not my POA.
The ground is not a natural berm unless it is free of rocks, puddles, any other hard materials such as wood or metal, AND the bullets strike it at between a 45 and 90 degree angle. The closer to 90 the better, 45 degrees of slope is the absolute minumum.
Well then damn, apparently I do have a natural berm as shooting down plus the slope of the ground gives me a nice angle.
Bullets do not "land" unless they are fired at a very steep upward angle.
Semantics.

Does it make you feel better to reitterate everyone else's concerns?:rolleyes:

george_co
January 24, 2008, 02:57 PM
Personally I would start simple, cheap and easy. If that doesn't work then I would look into pipes, boxes and other more elaborate designs..

You want to construct something that reduces the sound of the gun firing, or that redirects the sounds away from heading straight towards other occupied homes, because you can't eliminate it. If you can't build it and leave it there, then you have to set it up every time you decide to shoot, which is a PITA, and may cause you to stop or reduce your shooting.

I would build a wood or wire frame, and then go to a garage sale and get an old standard, rectangular sleeping bag. That will absorb a lot of the initial report that radiates to the sides of the muzzle. I would create a "U" shape with the bag. That way sounds going sideways directly towards the other homes are muffled with the bag, other sounds going over the top of the bag are going to miss the homes and head into space. The sounds that are directed downrange you are not going to stop anyway and they will bounce off of anything they hit. If you shoot enough to have to worry about the build up of unburnt powder, you can wash the bag.

You can also set you guns down on your bag without worrying about scratching the gun.

This gives you something easy to setup, takedown, and transport. Doesn't make you feel like you are in a tunnel. I have shot guns inside barrels before, its not fun. If it works great, if not you haven't wasted a lot of money.

If you want, you could also buy two bags, hang one 4-6 ft. on either side of you from some sort of frame or ropes between two trees, posts or whatever. This would allow you alter your firing stance from sitting to standing, or prone.

Just an idea.
George

KingTiger
January 24, 2008, 05:33 PM
Your situation begs for a suppressor. Once you fire a few suppressed .22LR rounds, you'll want to get every thing in your safe threaded. My air rifle has a louder crack than any of my suppressed .22LR rifles or pistols when I shoot subsonics. It'll make a .223 AR sound like a .22 rifle, and it masks the location of the shot.
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x119/KingTiger_photo/Buckmark2.jpg
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x119/KingTiger_photo/Dscf0094.jpg

LaVere
January 24, 2008, 05:36 PM
You might want to do a Google search on "Helmholtz resonator" "Slot resonator"
and muffler design. Especially muffler design.


Gordon

cpttango30
January 24, 2008, 05:50 PM
I'm shooting INTO a valley.
I don't need a berm.

What don't you get?

Not to get on you as I have not seen your set up. I do believe this to be an ignorant statement. Valley or not I have seen tracer round travel for a long ways before going out. I have also seen them go clean over the hill side and woods in the Valley we were shooting.

What is it going to hurt to take some excess dirt off of a job site for a contractor? I would add one "JUST TO BE SAFE" There is nothing wrong with adding to the safety of your range.

As for a sound box, I seen a guy that made a room out of 1/2" plywood and lined it with eggcrate foam then placed a 55 gal plastic drum also lined with eggcrate foam inside the room. That might be over kill but over kill is not all bad.

gym
January 24, 2008, 05:52 PM
Use a plastic water bottle,and some duct tape, like Steven Segal used among others, lol, just kidding

TEDDY
January 24, 2008, 09:08 PM
not to get in a p***match with any one but tracer is a different dog.since the jacket has the tracer and it burns the jacket gets much lighter and will bounce.if you ever fired an MG with tracer you would know the tracer does not go all the way out with the ball ammo.AOM3C.:uhoh::confused:
:banghead:

JohnKSa
January 24, 2008, 11:08 PM
Does it make you feel better to reitterate everyone else's concerns?I'm not sure why you're so defensive about this. If you want to know why I posted, here it is.

Your initial post made it sound as if you were using trees as a backstop, your following posts about shooting into a shallow valley were ambiguous because it was difficult, from your posts, to determine what was on your land and what wasn't.

Natural berms aren't all that common since most soil contains rocks and possibly other debris. Furthermore, the angle that the bullets hit is pretty important. A true berm on a range designed for level shots must have a slope (on the impact side) of at LEAST 45 degrees--you want to get your bullets hitting the backstop at as close to a right angle as possible. That minimizes ricochets and assures that bullets that do ricochet will lose a lot of energy in the impact and also be deflected at a very steep upward angle. Shooting downward at the ground is another story entirely since even with a 45 degree angle of incidence, the ricochets may not depart at a steep upward angle since the slope of the "natural berm" is not the same as the angle of incidence.

There was (and still is) no reason for me to assume that you are familiar with the issues concerning shooting range construction and that is why I posted what I did.

Fumbler
January 25, 2008, 10:02 AM
John,

You're right, you cannot assume I know everything about range construction and safe shooting. At the same time you can't assume that I don't know anything.
No one has seen the site, so you just have to take my word for it.

I'm sorry if I sound like a butt hole, but I'm so defensive because the question of safety's already been brought up and people aren't listening to my replies. They don't believe me when I say it is safe, but how can they say it is not safe if they haven't seen the site?
It annoys me when I ask a question and get off topic replies. If I wanted to know if everyone thought my range was safe then I would have asked and would have welcomed constructive criticism.

Bringing up the issue of safety is important. We all should always question the safety of something if we are unsure of it.
Bringing it up once is usually enough. Twice, just to clarify. Badgering someone multiple times over the same issue is not needed and turns a thread into off topic trash.

I admit, my first couple of replies to the safety issue sounded too defensive and I did not give a good description of the area.
I hear everyone's concerns and would appreciate it if we just left the safety issue alone.

ADKWOODSMAN
January 25, 2008, 10:32 AM
Fumbler
I'de go with old tires, as stated early in this thread, and the cardboard rippled type of egg cartons inside to absorb sound.

They used to use this type of egg cartons on the West Point range.

They can be changed when dust starts to accumulate.

Try to get at least 20" tires. You could simply put them on a picnic table or the like.

ilbob
January 25, 2008, 11:03 AM
You might want to do some experimenting and see just how bad the noise actually is away from your property. A range I used to belong to planted pine trees, and after they grew up, the noise from the range away from the property was dramatically reduced. Still noisy at the range.

Even a slight slope can direct sound in inoffensive directions. Its not something you can make a blanket statement about though. An indoor club I belong to had all kinds of issues initially with gun shot noise being channeled through the exhaust ducts in the direction of some homes 200 yards away. Insulating the inside of the ductwork took care of the problem. You could stand outside the building and the gun shots were audible but not offensive, while 200 yards away they were very annoying.

ARKIESTEEL
January 25, 2008, 12:59 PM
Seems like I read about a guy useing old tires to shoot thru. Seems like it really made it quiet but the unburned powder built up and either blew up or burned him real bad. Guess if you could wash out the tire ever now and then it might work ok

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