Sanitizing the Youth?


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Remmi
December 31, 2007, 04:37 AM
Alright, I'm one of the younger members of THR at 21, but I've recently become aware of something that's a touch disconcerting.

I've a pair of younger brothers, 9 and 10 years old respectively, and I spend a lot of time with them on my free days, We do all the big brother stuff, I watch cartoons with them, play video games, etc.

Well recently I went to purchase them their Birthday Presents, since it's in January, and my ten year-old brother specifically said he'd wanted a toy AK-47, I figured it'd be pretty easy to find some cheap plastic copy he could have fun with, like a cap gun you know?

Boy was I in for a shock.

I went to three separate stores and I found ZERO in regard of toy guns, at least toy guns that in any way resembled a GUN; there was a wide variety of NERF blasters and things that look like they belong in a 1960's B-movie, but not a single cap-gun or dart-pistol that resembled a real gun in any way shape or form. Did I miss the memo that kids can't have toys anymore?

Even on top of that, I've watched some of the cartoons my brother's watch, Anime from Japan that's been dubbed for kids - and I've noticed that they started editing out all the guns, seriously, just 'Shopping them off the frames in them, because apparently seeing the hero having a gun pointed at them is somehow more psychologically potent then the obvious question of why he's being threatened with a pointed finger.

What the hell's the deal with this? I was aware of Jack Thompson's little private war with violent video games, but this is really kind of stupid; how is a toy gun or a depiction of a firearm in a damn CARTOON going to make some kid go wonky and commit a crime? Heck, the paper-thin evidence for violent video games making kids killers is better then this.

What's the point of shielding our kids from the TRUTH of the real world? How is that going to make it better? What, make them totally oblivious to the existence of firearms til' they get one shoved in their face? I mean, normally I'm not one to cry havoc about censorship and government operations, I don't consider myself a revolutionary - but this is pathetic; so we take away our kid's toys, we've got people trying to take away their video games, and now they're censoring them out of Television?

What, are we practicing for the final samba of total gun control; or do we just want our children to be psychologically stunted wusses?

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chipperi
December 31, 2007, 05:32 AM
I agree totally, I am 31 and remember playing cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians with those rather explosive and smelly rolls of little red caps,and toy guns without the stupid red plug in the end. While outside in the mud, and refusing to come in when my mom called or smarting off and getting my hide tanned.

Now a days kids are pampered undiciplined video game zombies. That seem to grow up to be criminals, wusses, or even worse... liberals.

Our future is bleak.

jrfoxx
December 31, 2007, 05:49 AM
How bout this: http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=383831
only $40, and if the fact is airsoft and shoots plastic bb's is a concern for some reason, it should be a siple task to pour some Liquid Nails (or similar thick, strong glue) down into the barrel to render it permanantly non-firing. I'd think with a google search, you could find one even cheaper.

Remmi
December 31, 2007, 05:54 AM
I think you sort of missed the point, Jr. Just a tad.

buttrap
December 31, 2007, 06:09 AM
My how things change, when I was a kid I had a .22 falling block gun my dad had taken the hammer out of as a toy gun.

Autolycus
December 31, 2007, 06:14 AM
I dont think it is sanitization of the youth to be anti-gun. I think it is more that kids have essentially replaced toy guns and most outdoor activities with video games.

Anime is usually full of guns and realistic ones at that. I think it is probably just the editing format. I might be wrong though.

Autolycus
December 31, 2007, 06:15 AM
I wanted to ad that many of the video games are full of guns and that it is not necessarily anti-gun in a sense.

Geno
December 31, 2007, 06:23 AM
Dunhams has some very realistic Airsoft guns. That aside, yes, it is becoming more difficult to find good firearms related toys at the stores.

Mannix
December 31, 2007, 06:37 AM
I was forbidden from having any thing more than a squirt gun until I was 12(dart guns, cap guns, etc.).

My dad wasn't around.

I had a chronic lack of "boot" when I needed it most.

I played a whole lot of video games.

Somehow I'm not a "liberal" or a criminal. I suppose me being a wuss would depend upon the definition you used ;).

NGIB
December 31, 2007, 06:42 AM
I thought everyone knew that if your kids play with toy guns they grow up to be criminals and malcontents. Then if they also play violent video games as well, they may become real bad folks.

Seriously, someone always tries to legislate morality and "protect" our kids. I've always felt this job belonged to me and the wife - and we raised 3 good kids, and two of them veterans...

crazed_ss
December 31, 2007, 06:51 AM
When I was just a baby my mama told me. Son,
Always be a good boy, don't ever play with guns

- Johnny Cash

RLsnow
December 31, 2007, 07:16 AM
victory is mine!

i still find plastic toy guns and such (that make lill pop noises and you get the smell of gun powder :) ) in my local shop :D... getting hold of a real gun remains a problem though :P

che_70b
December 31, 2007, 07:46 AM
I know people who try very hard to shelter their children from viewing violence and shooting in movies and keep them far away from weapons. Seem like a bad idea to me, I can so no benifit to raising people in a phantasy world. Beyond that it really seams likely that if these kids ever have to face real violence they will be even more unprepaired to deal with the attack itself and the mental aftermath.

another okie
December 31, 2007, 08:25 AM
che - I understand what you're saying, but it strikes me as funny that keeping kids away from movies is described as keeping them in a fantasy world. Movies are the fantasy world.

jkingrph
December 31, 2007, 08:46 AM
I wonder about the world too. I'm 62 and when young all we played with was cap guns( mostly sans caps cause we could not afford them) a few dart guns, and homemade rubber band guns. Cowboy hats, holsters, and stick horses( mostly a long wooden stick, broom or mop handle with the working part removed). We had hours of fun like that, setting up ambushes ect., and to my knowledge no one of our group has had any trouble as teenagers or adults using guns. After school there were the old Bob Steele series westerns on TV.

In high school I carried a cartridge collection (live ammo) mounted on a board to school for a display. Another friend brought a couple of single action revolvers for display, and one day another friend brought a vintage flintlock longrifle, with a beautiful maple stock and inlays , to school to show me,

Now there are computer games and organized sports. What happened to creativity?

El Tejon
December 31, 2007, 08:47 AM
Just go to a gun show. There are always hundreds of airsoft toys at gun shows--and cashews, almonds, jerky, fudge, soft pretzels, everything but guns.:D

crazed_ss
December 31, 2007, 08:52 AM
Computer games and organized sports are pretty fun. :confused:

Besides, With the advent of first person shooters, I think computer games haved sparked a lot of interest in firearms. And if you want to talk about toy guns, have you guys heard of Airsoft? It's scary how real those things look.

wheelgunslinger
December 31, 2007, 08:56 AM
LOL. El T called it.
Plenty of airsoft, cold steel, tyranny response teams, transparent toys and such.
Not many guns.

Remmi
December 31, 2007, 09:24 AM
I'd just like to point out; I was looking for a *toy* gun. This is a ten-year old I was shopping for; the last thing I wanted to buy for him was an actual projectile weapon. I'd be getting a phone-call from my mother about him putting out his or his younger brother's eye within a week.

El Tejon
December 31, 2007, 09:28 AM
Hah, I've purchased enough real guns to equip a platoon of Marines for kids under 10.:D

If brick and mortar places have a dearth of toy guns, then there are dozens of other places to purchase toy guns.

Mannix
December 31, 2007, 09:38 AM
An airsoft gun shoots a little 6mm plastic pellet at around 300fps. It doesn't have enough to leave anything more than a little red mark. If you think that that's too much firepower for a 10 year old, plug the barrel or the hole the pellet gets fed into, deactivating it, or, if you're a REALLY nice brother, you could get an AK parts kit and make it look and feel just like the real thing :D, just plug the barrel and weld some of the internals in place.

Remmi
December 31, 2007, 09:44 AM
I'd actually considered buying a non-firing replica for him; but when I mentioned it to our Mother over coffee the other day, she gave me the look normally reserved for times I've done something on the level of car-wrecking or mass murder.

igpoobah
December 31, 2007, 10:28 AM
My kids got cap gun revolvers and a pump-action shotgun toy that uses little fake shells and makes a realistic shotgun blast sound for Christmas....:confused:

AirForceShooter
December 31, 2007, 10:30 AM
Just don't let your kids draw pictures of guns in school.

AFS

Vermont
December 31, 2007, 10:32 AM
I agree totally, I am 31 and remember playing cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians with those rather explosive and smelly rolls of little red caps,and toy guns without the stupid red plug in the end. While outside in the mud, and refusing to come in when my mom called or smarting off and getting my hide tanned.

I did the same thing 10 years ago. Well, we had to spray paint the red plug black, but that wasn't hard. We also walked around our neighborhood with a BB gun. It was a metal, all black, handgun. I'm surprised that we never got asked about it by the police. Of course we weren't stupid enough to point it at their car as they drove by, which is surprising in it's own way considering some of the stupid things we did back then.

That seem to grow up to be criminals, wusses, or even worse... liberals.

If you want to blame liberals for trying to take away your guns, go for it. I'm with you, but taking recent history into account, blaming them for censorship of television is wrong. When Bush was elected, the FCC started increasing censorship and enforcement of indecency regulations. In June 2006 (when congress was still controlled by Republicans) Bush signed the Broadcast Decency Enforcement Act of 2005 which increased indecency fines tenfold.

TexasRifleman
December 31, 2007, 10:37 AM
Hah, I've purchased enough real guns to equip a platoon of Marines for kids under 10.

I was gonna say, when my son was 10 he had several rifles and a handgun.

We skipped the toy gun thing, I'm not big on them.

But as to the topic keep in mind that it might not be a conspiracy by the stores you know. They are in business to sell things and it's possible that the toy gun market just doesn't move product anymore in some types of stores.

I see plenty of toy guns in Academy and other places so they are still around.

In Toys R Us and the like it may be simply a business move to not stock a product that doesn't sell.

RKBABob
December 31, 2007, 10:49 AM
Do you notice that there are much less "outdoorsy" boys stuff, of any kind, in the toy stores these days? Maybe cap guns are out because kids would actually have to go outside:eek: for that. Sad... I only found one (1) (uno) cap gun on a recent trip... and it was a neon orange, see-through revolver. I wish I still had my nickle-plated Walther PPK cap gun from back in the day!

Autolycus
December 31, 2007, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Che 70b: I know people who try very hard to shelter their children from viewing violence and shooting in movies and keep them far away from weapons. Seem like a bad idea to me, I can so no benifit to raising people in a phantasy world. Beyond that it really seams likely that if these kids ever have to face real violence they will be even more unprepaired to deal with the attack itself and the mental aftermath.

Whats also funny is that many people also try to keep their children away from sex. I would rather my child see sex (as it is a natural thing for humans to engange in) rather than violence which is against human nature in some regards. Violence is abhorrent and I would rather not partake in it however I understand it is real.

walking arsenal
December 31, 2007, 11:06 AM
My brother and I were in K-mart. We were in the toy isle playing with the toys like us grown up kids do.

I was shocked to find a desert tan Beretta 92 toy gun complete with cycling slide and replaceable magazine.

All excited about this I promptly picked it up, turned around and shot my brother with it, who in turn blocked my imaginary bullet with a light saber (stupid Jedi).

About this time a mother and a young boy walk down the isle just as we are putting the items back on the shelf.

The boy points to a plastic sword and says to mom that'd he'd like one of those and can she please buy it for him.

I'm impressed that

A) The kid said please.

B) The boy wanted a boys toy.

The mother gets a shocked soccer mom look, which resembles the look of a crappy out of water and stutters "Mommy isn't comfortable with you having weapons"

(sigh)

As they were walking away I shot mom in the back with the toy beretta. This incited laughter from the boy and hysterics from my brother.

It earned me a scorning "Your not a good example" look from the mom.

I get that a lot. Shoulda used the toy suppressor.

General Geoff
December 31, 2007, 11:42 AM
I had a deactivated Mosin Nagant as a toy when I was a kid. The bolt was real loose, and the barrel and chamber were filled with cement, but otherwise it was just about as real as you could get. My friends and I would have all kinds of fun playing "army" in the back yard. Those were the days...

RLsnow
December 31, 2007, 11:50 AM
waffles :D thats a funny story arsenal :)

jamz
December 31, 2007, 11:55 AM
No problem finding cap guns and toy guns where I live, near Portland Maine. Maybe not so much in Target (plenty of war toys though), but Walmart, smaller shops, even dollar stores (maybe especially dollar stores) seem to have loads of them. Toys R us has 'em too.

RLsnow
December 31, 2007, 11:58 AM
i think if/when i ever have kids theyl get to play with deactivated cheap real weapons :P...cement all over where cement will go...nice and heavy toy, so they get some physical training out of it :P

Prince Yamato
December 31, 2007, 12:15 PM
My gun mantra is that I'm going to buy the real version of every toy gun I had when I was little. I'm just lacking the Uzi...

Seriously though, the decline in realistic toy guns has to due with state laws and the spat of accidental shootings that occurred in the late 80s/early 90s. Some "kid" (i.e. 15 year old) pointed a toy gun at a cop and got his head blown off when the cop thought the kid had a real gun.

If you really want to get your kid brothers cool toy guns, go on EBAY and look up Intertech. Get 'em an AK center-fire squirt gun.

Or, drop a hundred or two on a Tokyo Marui. They make metal and wood toy clones of real guns. I've seen and held a couple at the saxet gun show. They look and feel pretty darn real.

Kimber1911_06238
December 31, 2007, 12:28 PM
yeah right, no toy guns. but playing paintball, a game where the object is to shoot another person is perfectly fine. When I was 10 all my friends played paintball. I told my father i wanted a paintball gun. He said sure, we'll sell all your real guns and you can play paintball with your friends. Guess what choice I made...

NG VI
December 31, 2007, 12:53 PM
i'm also 21, and my mom used to always hijack my toys. i vaguely remember finding a toy gun outside somewhere when i was six, and her throwing it away and telling me, I'm not having an UZI in the house!

must have been an awesome toy

fjolnirsson
December 31, 2007, 01:01 PM
Remmi, your location says Texas. Are you near a large urban area? Reason I ask, is I used to live in the S.F. Bay Area. I had the same trouble when I went looking for such toys for my sisters kids.
I moved to Oregon in 2004, and one of the first things I noticed was the abundance toy guns in stores. Of course, I live sort of out in the sticks here...

strat81
December 31, 2007, 01:01 PM
Jeez, I'm only 26 and I remember growing up with video games and first peron shooters but I still remember the black plastic (with brown grips) snub nosed revolver I had. It even had a DA trigger. I also had a variety of cap guns that used paper caps and plastic caps. I also remember the plastic-chrome cowboy revolver, and a Black Uzi-styled pump water gun. We called all of the pump water guns Uzis back then.

<sigh>

I won't be able to buy that stuff for my kids. I'll just buy them real guns instead. :)

jackmead
December 31, 2007, 01:07 PM
Video games with blood and guts all over the screen are OK :barf:
but a plastic gun with an orange cap on the muzzle isn't. :confused:

I saw some at the local Wal-mart.

Prince Yamato
December 31, 2007, 01:36 PM
and a Black Uzi-styled pump water gun

I think I had the same gun! You pumped the foregrip, right? Incidentally, when I picked up a real uzi for the first time a little over a year ago, my memory went back to my childhood. The ergonomics on that squirtgun were a perfect match for the real Uzi.

I always wanted those battery operated "uzi micros" called, "Zap-its" also. They shot red(!) or blue disappearing ink. My parents didn't like the idea of anything shooting "ink".

The commercial for them had a kid shooting his dad's shirt and the dad getting upset. The kid then laughed as the ink disappeared. I remember a kid shot me with one on the school bus when I was in kindergarten. Today, that same kid would be arrested and charged with multiple felonies.

I also had this blue and red Tec-9. I loved that gun. Seriously, I'm looking for a cheap Tec-9 just to recreate my childhood for real.

Zedicus
December 31, 2007, 02:26 PM
To be honest, I don't think the "average" liberal is to blame for this I have a few friends that are Liberals and also are wondering what happened to toy guns and playing cops and robbers.

Rather I think it is more owing the the "Frothing at the Mouth Liberals" (the nanny state extremist type) that are responsible.

and on the censored Anime it's only the stuff they have on TV, not the DVD's (Unless the company responsible for the Jap to English conversion are a bunch of Anti's), Watch Hellsing (Big Bore guns that we wished existed) or Full Metal Panic (Highschoolers CCW'ng) sometime.;)

strat81
December 31, 2007, 02:30 PM
think I had the same gun! You pumped the foregrip, right?
Bingo!

I remember the Zap-it too. I wasn't too keen on it since I remember how pathetic the motorized water guns were. Then the Super Soaker came along and put them all to shame.

That Uzi water gun was awesome tho. No orange tip, bright colors, or anything. It was BLACK.

mossberg
December 31, 2007, 02:58 PM
The dollar stores in Canada are full of cap guns and clicker guns. You can buy air soft at Wal-mart and Canadian tire. No problem finding toy guns up here.

CZ 42
December 31, 2007, 03:18 PM
I got expelled from a public highschool last year for drawing a revolver on my assignment. Wasn't even an evil black gun, or shooting anyone, or anything. As a matter of fact, it was a very nice representation. I was trying to explain the cylinder operation to my lab partner.:D

SG Merc
December 31, 2007, 04:48 PM
How bout this: http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=383831
only $40, and if the fact is airsoft and shoots plastic bb's is a concern for some reason, it should be a siple task to pour some Liquid Nails (or similar thick, strong glue) down into the barrel to render it permanantly non-firing. I'd think with a google search, you could find one even cheaper.I think you sort of missed the point, Jr. Just a tad.

Bringing up airsoft makes another good point about the OP's message though, because most retailers restrict airsoft purchases to those 18 or older. So the message is sent that if you're under 18 (i.e. a child) you're not allowed to have any imitation weapon.

Big45
December 31, 2007, 04:57 PM
Sanitizng the youth? Hardly. The Dick's down the road is loaded with airsoft products. I think that business (airsoft) is doing just fine. I played video games way too much as a kid, and I still do. Believe me the games are only helping by getting better every year (in terms of 'guns are cool' factor). Only things I cared about from middle school on were girls and football. I didn't care about firearms in the slightest until I was old enough to buy any. Now my priorities are different to say the least. Don't fret too much for the future. If you're really concerned, take kids shooting.

Gunnerpalace
December 31, 2007, 05:58 PM
Meijer's selection is terrible (toy guns wise):

M16A1, that's right the Vietnam version that jammed thy had a M-60 a few weeks ago went quick, I prefer to invest in real or airsoft myself.

ishida
December 31, 2007, 07:59 PM
To be honest, I don't think the "average" liberal is to blame for this I have a few friends that are Liberals and also are wondering what happened to toy guns and playing cops and robbers.

Rather I think it is more owing the the "Frothing at the Mouth Liberals" (the nanny state extremist type) that are responsible.

and on the censored Anime it's only the stuff they have on TV, not the DVD's (Unless the company responsible for the Jap to English conversion are a bunch of Anti's), Watch Hellsing (Big Bore guns that we wished existed) or Full Metal Panic (Highschoolers CCW'ng) sometime.
Full Metal Panic is utterly awesome. A single highschooler, Sosuke Sagara, CC's a limitless number of weapons of all types even into school. The teacher confistcates one on his way in, thinking it's a toy. I suggest watching it some time, to everyone. (The version I watched was purchased in Japan and released over the internet subbed by Fans, it's legal.) Hellsing also has a LOT of guns (particularly two pistols and a rifle) that really should exist.

Yeah, things aren't looking so good for children today. And I'm one of those kids, but I've managed to cope.

bluestarlizzard
December 31, 2007, 08:15 PM
i love full metel panic!!! awesome...... anyhoo, i was actually suprised 'cause when i picked up the bed, bath and beyond cataloge they had a little cap gun game like those old carniaval games (you know, shoot the duck or whatever) and it came with a little old fashinoned revolver toy. it was a little shocking to see it on the front page in this day in age.
it true stuff is just getting more and more rediculas in regards to whats considered bad for kids. my boss told me the other month that sesame street is editing out the cookie monster because he encourages kids to overeat. luckly there is a dvd (for adults) where you can still see the cookie monster stuff his face.
try k-mart, dad said he saw a pretty realistic looking mp-5 in there the other day. or you could get one of those lego kits..... *grin* that would be a project and a toy.

Gunnerpalace
December 31, 2007, 08:18 PM
Didn't notice we were going into anime in that case I must mention Ghost in the Shell (both seasons) one of the more accurate representations of firearms in anime, including jams and clearing them one of my favorite shows.

bluestarlizzard
December 31, 2007, 08:21 PM
if anime and guns is the subject i have one title in mind...... NOIR.

sm
December 31, 2007, 10:43 PM
I was born in the last great decade. *stirs-pot*.

Since I was born in '55, I have seen the Indoctrination of the People become more In Step with Government Wishes.

Personally I feel the ball got rolling when Little Bitty Jesus took the oath of office on Air Force One on a dark day in Nov.

Coming up, every kid, boys and girls alike carried a pocket knife, everywhere including School.
Hell the teacher's desks all had a Oilstone and a LOT of our Education did not come from a textbook, instead real life and passing - teaching - life skill sets.
Such as sharpening a pencil with a pocketknife, and keeping a knife sharp using a stone Freehand.

Guns: We rode bikes without helmets all over the damn place, and it was Normal to see kids riding Bikes with a .22 rifle, BBGun - whatever, going down the way to shoot at the shooting spots so designated, and with permission.

Schools had Guns too. Oh yes, My Elementary School had BBGuns for use to use indoors.
WE walked to school so it was normal to see Kids walking to school with their very own BBGuns to shoot indoors on these days.
WE had an outdoor place to shoot .22 rifles and we walked in broad daylight , with guns , on a Field Trip during school hours to shoot these .22 rifles.

Show-n-Tell, damn straight we brought guns to school, or even invited Parents, Relatives, Neighbors to come show us New Guns they had, and share about them.

Archery - same deal. We had Ben Pearson Archery stuff "our size" and again, when "our turn" kids brought their own Archery stuff if they had it...and many Parents, Relatives showed up with their stuff to assist us kids and share with us.

This continued through my High School Years.

Now Gov't was going to save us all, with New Math and Gov't Programs, designed by Gov't Folks that knew what was best for people to keep them safe.

Bull<expletive>!
Cold War was on, and we had Civil Defense for instance. Yellow and Black signs and places to go in case the Ruskies attacked.
We did more CD drills than fire drills!

Hell we already had enough damn sense to have food, water, supplies and all put back in case of an emergency! WE did not need the damn Gov't "advising" and "indoctrinating" us - even kids.

We had serious competitions and even boys against girls. Boys and Girls mixed teams.
Playing chase, Dodge Ball, Suicide, Mumbley-Peg , Volleyball, baseball, football...we did.
Hey, get skinned up, bruised, wind knocked out of you, bust a bone, need stitches...call growing up, deal with it.

Teachers did not have "goals" or have projected "agendas" or this other horse<expletive>.

Kids took test and the Teacher Graded that paper in RED ink and your grade and comments, good and bad were written in RED ink.

Sensitivities y a..
Kid sees a bad grade on a paper, and the teacher's comments, well called growing up.
Teacher was not going to fix it, your parents were liable to come down on you and you had to buckle down and study to get the grades.

We wore clothes we had.
We did not have much money, and normal for families to pass down clothes to kids as they grew into them, and neighbors passed around coats and other clothes.

Dress Code? What the hell for? Our clothes were clean, and we dressed nice and behaved ourselves.
We were just as happy a kid got brand new pair of jeans instead of hand-me-downs and not jealous, not resentful, actually happy for another kid!

Clothes did not keep the bullies away, or make us smarter in school, or anything else.
WE and how raised is what did these Behaviors, Values, Respect and all.

WE Respected the few Catholic, Jewish and Boys and Girls Schools wearing Uniforms.
Heck we are just kids, we were taught to ask questions, so we asked the kids, and Adults and even the Fathers, Nuns, and others about all this.


Yes we have a problem with Government Meddling with the Minds of Society.
Indoctrination, Brainwashing, Propaganda and Utopian Ideas.

Boys are not supposed to be masculine and get into fistfights.
Girls are not supposed to do "boy" stuff.
Competition like playing Tag is not good for kids
Guns, knives, Archery...you folks already know about this horse-stuff!

Screw the Gov't. !
LBJ and those that keep the ball rolling can go shove it.

We don't need no Education - Pink Floyd

Kids need to be raised as I and others like me were.
Screw PC, kids need to play Cowboy & Indians, Army and Japs/ Germans.
They need a single shot .22 rifle and a helluva lot of ammo right there the minute they are brought home from being born.
And the first time big enough, learn to shoot the damn .22 rifle, with iron sights

That baby is Part of the Militia and I don't give a hoot what .gov says.

Kids needs a Quality Slip Joint Pocket knife with Carbon Steel or Chrome Vanadium Blades.

Don't teach that kid with a crutch, teach 'em proper with a slipjoint.
Safety is between the ears, not on a "safey" no matter if a safety on a firearm or "lock" on a goopy a.. steel knife.
Teach that kid how to sharpen freehand quality steel like carbon steel or CV and they are NOT dependent of jigs, jags, and goofy sharpening systems.

Turn off the TV, hell throw the SOB away and quite a bit of Indoctrination will not enter the home in first place.

Then Parent, Mentor Kids.
Don't have kids? So what? Are you too special and selfish you cannot be a Mentor to a kid that really wants one?

Get a kid's sized BB gun, .22 rifle and iron sights and all the BBs and .22 ammo you can carry.

Buy Corn Dogs, hot dogs, hamburgers and get your butt busy cooking this stuff...at the range...so kids can be raised as by golly they have a right to be raised.

Kids got the same damn rights as Adults.
Constitution and BoR does not say one damn word about a person having to be a certain age, be a certain height, or weigh a certain amount.

WE the People raise our youth, not the damn Government!

Use Enough Corn Dawgs

jrfoxx
December 31, 2007, 11:16 PM
I think you sort of missed the point, Jr. Just a tad.

No, I saw your point perfectly, I just have no children, haven't been toy gun shopping in 25 years, and have no idea if what you experianced is a localized thing in your area, or is common.So, rather than just blather on about something I know nothing about, or add a +1 after someone elses comment, I thought I'd offer a suggestion you may not have though of (deactivating a cheap airsoft, thus making it a toy), as it seemed likely that you were still looking for a toy gun, as you state you couldn't find any in your area.Sorry, I know that wasnt the point of your thread, and I wasnt trying to derail it, just wanted to offer a possible solution to the problem that caused you to start this thread. Probly shoulda done it by PM though, as it wasn't the discussion you were looking for.Sorry about that.

ironvic
December 31, 2007, 11:48 PM
The commies and uber liberals said they'd destroy us from within. they're doing a good job of it. A lot of you guys sound like its the kid's fault for wanting TV and video games. It ain't their fault, go ask mommy and daddy why their offspring aren't prepared for the real world. A kid just knows what we teach them, but when they're older and wiser, they usually get squared away, or grow a ponytail and drive Volvos with political stickers all over the bumper and rear window.

Maybe we need to take a kid to the range from time-to-time or give them books to read that have stories depicting the wise use of firearms by upstanding and brave characters.

bluestarlizzard
January 1, 2008, 12:15 AM
"A lot of you guys sound like its the kid's fault for wanting TV and video games."

funny, i did not get that impression. i think the blame falls on bad parenting and the overwelming influnce of media on our society. how many of these parents READ to their kids? how many of them just go and buy whatever the kid asks for just to stop the whining? how many of them plop their kids in front of the tv to get them out of their hair?
i didn't have a tv between the ages of 4 and 7. we didn't have one in the house. if i was bored, i played with the dogs, with my stuffed animals or ran around the naighborhood with the other kids. every night my mom read me a book. if i whined or did something bad, i got spanked and then sent to the corner. i learned not to tease the dogs the hard way (aka 5 stickes in my face) when i went to CT in the summers to visit my grandparents, i spent all my time inside watching tv, like a slug.
when i grew older i had my dad, who taught me about firearms, responcibilty and watched over me.
i find myself shocked when i see a kid treat an adult starnger with disrespect, mostly because i know that if i did that i would have gotten whiped! the most shocking thing is that the parents DIDN'T do anything.

kids need boundries and freedom at the same time. its a difficult balance, but it can be achived. Play, both formal and informal, is nessasary for kids to understand and learn about the world around them, and to understand the world, one must understand agression.

this whole thing about elimating agressoin from the human race reminds me of Serinity.

che_70b
January 1, 2008, 01:02 AM
Okie, I did not mean that movies were reality. What I meant by a fantasy world was hiding all acts of violence from them rather than allowing them to see things, in this case movies/tv, that depict violent acts. While these things are not "real" fictional things are created as window toward the human condition, there is violence in movies beacouse there is violence in reality, etc. By completely hiding this from children one runs the risk of leaving them unprepaired for the possibility of violence since the entire concept is alien to them.

As to sexual content and children. Very young children do not understand sexual content and are fairly likely to ignore it since theay do not understand it. I know I was this way when I was a child. Once they are old enough to start to understand sexuality and to seek depictions of it to study it is time that the parents of a realalistic coversation about human sexuality and sexual health with them. It seems to that when it come to sexual content alot of parents are bothered by it beacouse they are embarased about addressing the questions it brings up in older children.

Macmac
January 1, 2008, 01:16 AM
Remmi , I didn't read every post in your thread, but to give you some idea. I am 56. 50 years ago on my 6th birthday my Dad gave me a real .22 single shot bolt gun and let me go do with it as I pleased. That was my first real gun, but far from the first gun he ever allowed me to shoot.

I had a lot of cow boy guns cast in pot metal, that fired rolls of caps. Grandmother bought many of these herself with lever cap guns made of wood and potmetal.. My dad had more fear of BB guns than real ones, I guess he was thinking I would think a BB Gun was more toy than real and therfore put some's eye out.

Recently I read about a grade school maybe 6 being suspened from school,I think banned forever from that school, for pointing a finger like a gun and dropping his thumb like a hammer.

And people tell me I am crazy???

Back then Dad had guns in his unlocked closet, and anyone knew better that to mess with anything in Dads closet. He never ever said a word, somehow we kids just knew.

Big45
January 1, 2008, 05:53 PM
You seen this kid yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou0knwQKqhc&feature=related

Eric F
January 1, 2008, 06:19 PM
I have not read the whole thread but.........I was not allowed to play with toy guns as a child. When I was 6 my dad took me out and helped me load and shoot a .50 muzzle loader. That next day we went deer hunting. We shot my first deer that morning. ever since only 1 time did I ask for a toy gun and my dad said why would you want a toy when you can have the real thing. Made sense to me so I got my first gun at 8. Now I did go over to friends houses and play with their toy guns and such had some good times but toy guns then were just that toys. The toy guns from the mid 90's on took on a too real look to them for my likeing. If I had a boy today I would not allow him to play with toy guns in my area and this day and age I feel toy guns will only cause problems. Instead I would treat him like my dad treated me.

another okie
January 2, 2008, 02:24 PM
I don't blame people for sheltering kids from violence in movies and TV. Fantasy violence has a big impact on kids and leads some of them to conclude that violence is normal. Even many adults have trouble telling fiction from reality, as we can see when people describe the streets as full of machine guns, or claim that Johnson killed Kennedy, or that one bullet hole in an airplane will cause it to go down.

But I also think kids should know where dinner comes from, and that there are bad people in the world, and how to take care of those bad people.

captlid
January 2, 2008, 05:36 PM
Turn off the TV, hell throw the SOB away and quite a bit of Indoctrination will not enter the home in first place.

When I was a kid I thought I couldn't live without a tv. Then at the age of 16 moved out and had no extra money to buy a tv and the accompanying cable service with it. Haven't watched the thing in about nine years. Best thing I ever did. Started walking through the park to read at the newly opened barnes and nobles. High school teacher saw me reading one day and told me to stop. I asked her why and she said, "You're going to become smarter than me soon."

bluestarlizzard
January 2, 2008, 05:48 PM
"I don't blame people for sheltering kids from violence in movies and TV. Fantasy violence has a big impact on kids and leads some of them to conclude that violence is normal. Even many adults have trouble telling fiction from reality, as we can see when people describe the streets as full of machine guns, or claim that Johnson killed Kennedy, or that one bullet hole in an airplane will cause it to go down"

i'd rather teach to reconize and diffrenciate fiction from reality. kid see's something on t.v., asks is that really possible or is that right. reply, "i don't know, look it up"
1.) the kid is learning research, points of veiw, evaluating information.
2.) kid learns not to believe everything they see on t.v.
3.) kid has to think about it.

CZ 42
January 2, 2008, 10:48 PM
That was interesting, sm, but as a 16 year old I can't believe things were ever so good. That is just far out, they really were the "good 'ol days", huh?
You are lucky to have grown up at the peak of our society. It's worse than ever now... I was expelled for drawing a revolver (on paper, not out of my pants). It is frustrating, but what can we do? Hell, I can't even vote.

XD-40 Shooter
January 2, 2008, 11:40 PM
Shoot, when I was 9 years old I had a single shot 22 rifle, that I got to shoot almost every weekend with my dad. Boy how times have changed, much for the worse I'm afraid. Now we've got a bunch of pretty men in women's underwear that pee themselves as soon as they even see a real gun....lmao!:neener:

Mauserguy
January 3, 2008, 12:01 AM
When Mauserguy was a lad of six or seven, he had a cowboy hat, chaps and a pair of six shooters on his hips. One day Mom took him to the bank. She didn't want him to bring his toy guns into the bank, but young Mauserguy, the right winger he is, stood his ground, and stuck to his guns. He would not dissarm. It's not known if they made it into the bank that day.
Mauserguy


PS: Oddly, I have no interest in cowboy guns today. I guess I got them out of my system when I was a kid.

GlowinPontiac
January 3, 2008, 01:14 AM
when i was a kid i had an old military cadet training rifle i picked up for a dollar at a yard sale. the previous owner had layered on the white paint so thick that the bolt would not open.

me and my father stripped it down and refinished it back into looking like a real gun. hell it even had a gold painted wooden cartridge in the chamber that would slide back and forth on a spring when you opened the bolt.

somewhere in my parents shed that rifle is still kicking around.
carrying it around the neighborhood now would surely result in a call to the police.

230RN
January 3, 2008, 02:25 AM
CZ 42 note my sig line
----------------------

Shoot. When I was 8 or 9 I had three or four BB guns of my own, hung on pegs in my bedroom and all named. My Pop helped me build a BB gun range in the basement of our summer house. Favorite fun was shooting at a nail hung by a string from the floor joists.

I used to run around the woods out in Ronkonkoma, Long Island with a BB gun and a machete. In fact, they didn't like me exploring the woods without a machete... loose dogs were common.

We were clearing the land, and everybody had their own war surplus machete except my Sister and my Mom.

But that was 1948 or 9.

I had many of the roll-cap SAA-style guns for "city" use, and a matched pair of them in double holsters a la Tom Mix or Gene Autry or Hopalong Cassidy, I forgot which.

I also had a Cadet Model of a Springfield '03 with a gold-painted wooden cartridge attached to the front of the bolt. Like the below, except black bolt and front sight. (Gasp!) :what:

I guess they tried to make them as realistic as possible back then, not as unrealistic.

I also had a lot of model sailboats which I used to sail in the lake at Kissena Park.

Maybe I'm not a criminal because of the model boats.

Autolycus
January 3, 2008, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by CZ 42: That was interesting, sm, but as a 16 year old I can't believe things were ever so good. That is just far out, they really were the "good 'ol days", huh?

It was not necessarily good. We had a lot worse problems besides gun control. Think about civil rights, abortion rights, divorce laws, spousal rape laws, Jim Crow laws, and other civil unrest. Look at the riots that took place during the 60s, the assinations, the wars, etc. The 70s were not much better. They brought on the rise of drugs and criminal organizations which stretched into the 80s.

In regards to gun laws it was ok. However it was not much better for others.

che_70b
January 3, 2008, 07:21 AM
I would probably still rather live back in the era mom and dad grew up in (both were born in the late forties, college in the late 60s, early 70s). Far less of the good green earth under black top, LOTS more small game to hunt, less gun control and general restrictions on freedom. Hey maybe we could redo alot of that reform and just keep the good bits.

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