what difference does a grain make?


December 31, 2007, 02:11 PM
I'm not sure if I can get an answer to my question, but here goes. I dont have a chrony, so I would like an approx answer. I have a savage muzzleloader that I shoot 43g of imr 4759 in. The max load is 45g. What kind of velocity increase should I expect from a one to two grain increase in powder? I beleive I should be around 2150-2200 fps with a 300g bullet.

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shooting time
December 31, 2007, 03:44 PM
I wouldn't advise to use smokless powder in a muzzleloader .4579 is not black powder i thiink it is smokeless IMR powder which has greater pressures.

December 31, 2007, 03:59 PM
#1). There was a "rule" much quoted by Mr. Herter (Geo) that in the "working range" (pressure) of a powder, a 10% increase in the amount of powder would yield a 5% increase in velocity BUT a 10% increase in pressure. BEWARE. It is rough/crude, but it does seem to "hold" close to actual results.

#2). AS SAID, SR 4759 is NOT a black powder or acceptable black powder substitute. I believe it is double base but the bottom end of its working pressure is going to be at the top end of black powder working pressure and you are playing "You BET your life" (eyesight, hearing, facial destruction, etc.) when you use it. I WOULD NOT. Your face. HAPPY HOLIDAYS. Luck.

December 31, 2007, 04:16 PM
Thanks for the safety concerns, but the savage is designed to handle smokeless loads safely. I was looking for a estimation for a grain increase in the charge. Should I expect a 20 fps increase, or maybe 40 fps? By that rule I get about 24 fps/grain. Seems reasonable. Anyone else?

December 31, 2007, 04:20 PM
uhh guys he is actually right. Savage does make a muzzleloader that can handle both smokeless and blackpowder. Its the 10ML. here is some info on it.

Call it innovation...call it thinking out of the box...at Savage, we call it listening to the needs of the hunter. That's why we developed the world's first smokeless powder muzzleloader. The 10ML-II's barrel and hardened breech plug are designed to safely contain the pressures from shooting smokeless. And, since smokeless powders are non-corrosive, the 10ML-II is a muzzleloader hunter's dream come true--clean it next week or next month--you decide.

The 10ML-II is loaded with options. Use smokeless powder, black powder, Pyrodex or other black powder substitutes--the choice is yours. Set trigger pull weight to your own requirements--the revolutionary AccuTrigger is a standard on the 10ML-II. This 50 caliber rifle with 209 primer ignition can deliver 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards and produces velocities exceeding 2,300 fps. With more than 3,000 foot pounds of knock down energy, the 10ML-II is muzzleloading perfection that caters to every taste.

December 31, 2007, 04:26 PM

You are Savage's best advertisement. I'm ready to buy one now.


December 31, 2007, 05:28 PM

December 31, 2007, 06:21 PM
1 1/2" at 100 yds? I've done it more than a few times at 200 yds. Trying to tweek the ML10-II for 300 yd shooting now. I've just shot a few 5 shot groups, but best so far is 4 1/2 " at 300 yds.

December 31, 2007, 06:42 PM
What difference does a grain make? Well, it depends.

I was working up a load reciently and at the low end of the powder scale, each 2/10 grain gave me about a 12 fps increase. Then at one point a 2/10 grain increased the fps by 125. What happned? All of a suddon my fps jumps from 2750 to 2875 with such a small increment?

Barrel, pressure, bullet, how dirty the barrel is.. all come into play. Or maybe my chrono sucks.

Eric F
January 1, 2008, 09:16 AM
well I can say this in 38super out of my 1911 with aa#2 there is a steady increase of 25fps per .1gr of powder starting at 4.4 to 5.2 but powders bullets and guns are all diffrent.

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