Binary explosives!?


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Evil Monkey
December 31, 2007, 10:32 PM
http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=6k9lrw5&s=1

Something about binary explosives and how small amounts can create mass destruction.

I don't know much about explosives so I thought this was pretty interesting.

Couldn't these types of explosives be utilized in hand held weapons? Maybe reducing a 40mm down to maybe a 5 or 10mm grenade to save weight. Maybe it can be used for replacing gun powder? That would make for a really small round of ammunition.

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SouthpawShootr
December 31, 2007, 10:43 PM
I'd give that guy the Osama bin Ladin award for giving terrorists fresh ideas. Totally irresponsible to post a video like that in my view (on his part not necessarily yours). Let these guys figure out devices on their own. Hopefully a few will blow themselves up in the process.

This thread's in for a very short life.

Yes, interesting. Still, in today's climate not a good idea. ATF sees that and you better hope this guy was either military during a sanctioned demo exercise or in another country.

I think the pressure spike would be too much for ammo applications.

Oohrah
January 1, 2008, 12:08 AM
Yep seen a less refined version that could be detinated with an
ordinary bullet round passing through;)

ilbob
January 1, 2008, 12:11 AM
has been passed around on the internet for a while now.

nothing real new.

akodo
January 1, 2008, 12:56 AM
first, there are many explosives that gram for gram are much more potent than gunpowder, or dynamite. This is one of many. One of the issues with explosives is how stable they stay during transport, storage, etc etc. Making a stable explosive is the hurdle. This explosive stays stable in storage and transport by being kept in it's seperate components. None of this is new.

Now, this video places some false info in it to make the explosive seem more relevant to public safty than it or any other explosive is. Note they talk about no need for metal parts or electronics to detonate it? Well, that is true for most explosives. Some may require a bit of current to set them off, others some fire, but then all you need is to pop open your walkman and zap it and BOOM. Other electronics are only related to having the bomb detonate remotely or on a timer...something that normal people worry about as they want to survive, but a sucide bomber, does he care if he dies in the explosion or in the planecrash afterwards? No and no. Hence no need for fancy electronic remote detonators for other explosives.

Further, airports do NOT screen for metal or electronics as a method of detecting explosives. Think about how much metal is in your average checked luggage, your belt buckle, etc. How much electronics is present in your cellphone, digital watch, Ipod. You pass through a metal detector to find out if you are carrying any guns or knives, not to spot explosives.

Explosives are screened using a 'sniffer' that detects small amounts of explosive or explosive related chemicals. Most sniffers are machines, but biologicals are also used (bomb dogs)

There are a ton of explosives that you can put in your luggage that will pass through your average screening. There are a few that appear to be white powder. Sure, they may not be as potent gram per gram, but a babypowder bottle filled with it has zero metal parts zero electronic parts, can be exploded by taking a lighter to the stuff, and has roughly 3x the explosive power of blackpowder...enough to rip a hole in the side of the plane.

Except this stuff, like many other explosives, AND this binary, are detectable by sniffer.

The question is, 1) are airports even screening luggage by sniffers? The answer is carry-on, rarely, checked, rarely. Hence there is no need for this fancy binary stuff, regular stuff will work just as well.

Also, the key to preventing bombs of this type isn't to have everyone stop flying, or stop carrying pens or anything small enough to contain a drop of this explosive. The key is to spot terrorists. We don't deal with 'The Shoe Bomber' by instituting the 'everyone take your shoes off' policy a year earlier, we do it by noticing one individual who is acting oddly, whose credentials are somewhat odd, who sets up red flags, etc etc.

-v-
January 1, 2008, 01:21 AM
Well, thats quite neat, but the binary explosive as he describes it is merely the preparation of a explosive from two components. Once the two components are mixed and dried they form a rather unstable high explosive. Not awfully useful. Further a quick search on wikipedia shows that most military explosives used today (eg C-4) all have explosion velocities upwards of 2x as high as this binary explosive. Power-rating wise, I'd rate it as anemic. It comes in behind TNT by about 1-2km/s explosion velocity, and we have much stronger stuff then TNT now-a-days, most of which could probably be bought from ye-old black market on the cheap. Plus, as far as binary explosives go, you can find the recipe to cook this stuff on the internet using very common house-hold chemicals (we're talking baking bakeing soda and soap common).

Dick Tylock You have just given me the idea for the most, interesting, rifle target in a long, long while. However, I think I'll defer it for personal and group safety!

mekender
January 1, 2008, 01:35 AM
a binary explosive is one what is made by mixing two ingredients together... all you gotta do is look up "tanerite"... its cheap and legal in the us

akodo
January 1, 2008, 01:46 AM
The other half of the question I forgot I wanted to address, use of this explosive in hand held weaponry.

Yes, you could put more explosive power in a grenade, but what we choose to use now is very stable. It won't go bad, it won't go boom if bumped, it won't even go boom if caught in a car fire.

As for alternate propellant: As far back as pre WW2 people were experimenting with Dynamite Guns but on the artillery scale not man portable. Why they never caught on? I don't know. I figure part of it is related to a more potent explosive may push the projectile faster, but at the expense of needing a very very strong chamber, and a very short barrel life.

Zedicus
January 1, 2008, 03:03 AM
Just wait until some anti gets wind that with household chemicals you can make a impact detonated HE that can be put into hollow points.

Old news and reality never ceases to panic the great mindless masses.

DoubleTapDrew
January 1, 2008, 04:55 AM
I expected to see the TSA logo at the end as a reason for more intrusive seraches. They can't stop all threats because there are too many, it's just not possible.
I think if you had something with that kind of velocity as a gunpowder it would expand faster than the bullet could be moved, creating a pressure spike and esentually turning a firearm into a grenade. It might work for a projo but they probably test stuff we haven't even heard of when developing explosive rounds. There were 20mm grenades during the trials for the OICW or whatever it was called.
a binary explosive is one what is made by mixing two ingredients together... all you gotta do is look up "tanerite"... its cheap and legal in the us
Yes but tannerite requires a hit from a centerfire to detonate

SDC
January 1, 2008, 08:51 AM
One of the real problems with using something like this in a hand-held weapon (especially for military uses), is how and when that binary explosive is supposed to be mixed; you don't want to have to break out a chemistry set under fire just so you can shoot back, so it doesn't really offer any advantages over what's being used now. There IS a fair amount of research into things like this for artillery shells though (propellant and payload), where you don't necessarily need to be immediately mobile, or you can put a mobile distribution plant near a firebase.

macmuffy
January 1, 2008, 09:20 AM
Tannerite is a dry mix and not the only binary on the market. This one is a liquid, http://www.fixor.com/
Not sure if it is available to the peons like tannerite is but is on the market.

Shelf life is short and I'm not sure how they dentonate this stuff.





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oldsoldier
January 1, 2008, 09:56 AM
While impressive, placement is important. Notice that it was placed at the side of the watermelon. The melon wasn't vaporized as stated in the video. It probably suffered a lot of damage, but it was blown to right off camera. That said, it still can give information to the wrong people.

alsaqr
January 1, 2008, 10:04 AM
"Something about binary explosives and how small amounts can create mass destruction."

I just love this utube type stuff.

Been using military and civilian explosives for nearly 50 years in Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal and civilian Unexploded Ordnance Disposal. Binary explosives are not new and I have used almost all of them that have been made on the last 40 years.

The primary purpose of binary explosives is/was safety. You have two inert mixtures, that when mixed together are explosive. Most binary explosives are much less powerful than TNT.

geekWithA.45
January 1, 2008, 10:53 AM
"Vaporize a melon"?

I think not.

"Knock a melon off a post"?

Sure.

Antipasta
January 1, 2008, 12:18 PM
Irritating music. If they want to make it more foreboding they should get the whispering SEAL from Future Weapons to narrate it.

CZ.22
January 1, 2008, 01:02 PM
Baking Soda+ Vinegar=Binary Explosive
I've toyed with the idea of making some sort of cannon type thing using an alkalie and an acid as proppelant

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