Just had a killer activist idea - can we be mature enough to carry it out?


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bogie
January 1, 2008, 03:28 AM
Yeah, and this applies to a lot of you guys who assume that you're mature because of your age.

This is going to take some tact and gentleness, because we'll be targeting a media-friendly group (nope, not Washington Post Reporters) that largely are -not- knowledgeable about firearms. Primary object is education of the group. Secondary is to get numbers, and then some media attention, and hopefully some corp attention, because that gets more media attention. It's also going to require a cessation of infighting for the duration of the activity. That means no finger pointing, no "I don't like that company anyway," and no fragmenting. We've got some incredible numbers here. We need to use them.

We need to do this like ladies and gentlemen. Nicely. Not as adversaries. Win hearts and minds, that sort of thing.

I don't really recognize a lot of names now... I know a lot of the "old farts" from a couple of years ago still lurk, and sometimes I hear things. Guys, it's time to think, reflect upon just _why_ we're here, and go to work.

Speaking of which - THR has done massive online/email campaigns before, with positive results. We can do it again. - NO derailment. IMHO, that needs to be the rule - either participate, or STFU and hold it. Or go back to the forum where you heard about all the bad gun people. Sorry, but since this is an open forum, it's all too easy for a few folks, easily under 1%, to "enter," and then disrupt an activity. We're going to need agreement that we can focus, and a low tolerance threshold of folks who wish to point the activity in other directions, such as professional sports or which is the latest and greatest boy band... No religion. No abortion. No Hitler. No Hillary. No Bush. No bleepin' politics. Just a focus....

I'm also gonna need someone who actually knows more than diddly squat (my approximate level...) about web development. Not much - will probably need to hack together a database or two for some big number "this is the number of people who support this" and "fill in this e-mail form to fire off a personalized message" type of stuff...

Wouldn't mind chatting with a coupla mods before springing things - I think this could be be big enough to get some attention, and if we work things right, it'll all be good attention.

314-920-6860 after 10:00 central 01/01/08...

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WinchesterAA
January 1, 2008, 03:45 AM
How long have you been working on this idea?

bogie
January 1, 2008, 03:58 AM
Counting time in PR classes, since about 1982... Since I learned that some folks didn't like my favorite hobby, since about 1969...

fjolnirsson
January 1, 2008, 06:58 AM
Bogie, if I can help, I will. Count me in.

Big45
January 1, 2008, 08:36 AM
Sorry to nitpick but shouldn't this be in the Activism forum?

Autolycus
January 1, 2008, 08:55 AM
Tag as this is interesting.

ieszu
January 1, 2008, 10:00 AM
Love to hear more... but giving out your private phone number on the internet?

doc2rn
January 1, 2008, 12:14 PM
That is why this is the High Road, love to hear more.

armoredman
January 1, 2008, 12:20 PM
Whatcha need?

Vector
January 1, 2008, 12:54 PM
bogie wrote;

can we be mature enough to carry it out?

who assume that you're mature because of your age.

This is going to take some tact and gentleness,

a cessation of infighting for the duration of the activity.

We need to do this like ladies and gentlemen. Nicely.

So I am trying to get to your idea through all the suggestions on how to be civil, united, mature, acting like gentlemen, etc.

Then I read this in the same post :confused:

either participate, or STFU

So all I am left to do is :rolleyes:

`

Superpsy
January 1, 2008, 01:02 PM
i'm willing...tagged to see where this is going

AZ_Rebel
January 1, 2008, 01:22 PM
We need to do this like ladies and gentlemen. Nicely. Not as adversaries. Win hearts and minds, that sort of thing.
...I know a lot of the "old farts"
...either participate, or STFU

Kinda shot yourself in the foot haven't you? However, you may have been just "anxious" to get your new idea out there.

I too have marked and will see where we are going. Hope this will help our "cause" and hope that I can help in some way.

But please heed your own advice - people end to dismiss you when you talk the way you did in your original post.

Lennyjoe
January 1, 2008, 01:41 PM
Whether he shot himself in the foot or not on that one post, I still respect bogie and his passion. He's been around almost as long as I and I haven't seen anything that would tarnish his credibility.

Bogie, I'm in. Not a big web developer so I'll help where I can. Besides, I'm behind the lines and need to get more active in the fight for our rights.

dcal
January 1, 2008, 01:46 PM
I'm a software engineer (read: code monkey) and have some limited web dev skillz. I'd be happy to help! Keep me posted on the details.

Mannlicher
January 1, 2008, 01:52 PM
Bogie, your idea would be a total waste of time. I don't think you understand the mindset of the anti gun folks. They are just not interested in hearing your ideas, and I guarantee you that none of them are going to have an Epiphany.
Besides, I LIKE being confrontational with those morons. :evil:

Prof. A. Wickwire
January 1, 2008, 01:59 PM
Bogie,

I teach web development and database development. Keep me in mind as this project develops.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

(edited for clarity)

WinchesterAA
January 1, 2008, 02:01 PM
Well throw up some details Bogie, I'm interested.

I'm good at contingency planning, and pre-emptive problem solving. Great with people from the lowest of the low to the highest of the high, and pretty good with electronics.

TCB in TN
January 1, 2008, 02:02 PM
We don't all have to agree or even like one another to put a little effort into supporting the 2A. I don't always WANT to be tactful, but I know when I need to. I don't have development skills but I will support whatever actions I can.

Zedicus
January 1, 2008, 02:30 PM
<= Web Multimedia & Graphic Designer

whats the plan?

MKEITH
January 1, 2008, 04:11 PM
Yeah, you can count me in. Don't know much about computer stuff,but I'll do what I can in other areas.

bogie
January 1, 2008, 04:52 PM
By "participate or STFU" I mean that you are either with the program, or you just leave it alone - we've had enough derailers and trollers from democratic underground here to skew an Iowa Caucus...

Okay - here's the idea: Target a specific corporate leader - not an anti, but one that is basically a combination of risk averse and uneducated enough that they shy away from firearms, and launch a public campaign to take them out for a range day. We know they're busy, so we'll happily settle for members of the company's management team. Goal is education around our culture, with hopefully an appreciation of the concept of legitimate firearm ownership and use. Oh, and food and fun...

Web site should include (I think...) a guest book petition, along with e-mail links, possibly an e-mail form (altho I suspect that if we bomb 'em with a bunch from one address, they'd just filter). Also include links (including to this site, a-human-right, etc.), safety information, sporting/olympic information, etc.

I'm figuring MORE than one campaign. I just grabbed the overall web site, and a site for the first student.

As a side-effect, we're also going to encourage folks to take friends and co-workers out for a day - hopefully using the nice set of instructions on the site, so that instead of Bubba handing the 110 pound guy a .500 Smith, he starts him off with a .22...

Even if we don't get an actual taker for a range day, we can get some decent publicity, and possibly make 'em think a bit. We're also going to need to spread the word around other web forums...

How's it sound?

www.takesomeoneshooting.com - 404'd right now, but I've got the domain, and I've also got one for the first corp person... And some of you won't believe who it is...

buy guns
January 1, 2008, 05:07 PM
I'm interested in helping. You should start collecting our emails so you can send out updates. Mine is mrbrady@gmail.com

armedandsafe
January 1, 2008, 05:41 PM
Tagged for tracking.

Pops

3/325
January 1, 2008, 06:10 PM
I'm interested in helping out with graphics/illustration/powerpoint.
Examples are in my sig line.

bogie
January 1, 2008, 06:25 PM
Cool - so it could start to come together... What do the rest of you think? A nice gentle safety/fun oriented message, coupled with hopefully a heavy e-mail/public relations campaign? Get folks talking, and hopefully thinking?

gunsmith
January 1, 2008, 06:32 PM
I don't know web stuff, but I am willing to be nice.

SuperNaut
January 1, 2008, 06:38 PM
I'm a musician and I also do a lot of design work, logos, ads, etc. I'm willing to help.

bogie
January 1, 2008, 07:05 PM
Anyone have any ideas as far as prospective "public" students? Must be someone moderately visible, influential, but not a "gun" person or a hunter... Would prefer to avoid politicians or "entertainment" type public figures too... I'm thinking more in terms of corporate figures.

Ideally, they need to have a fairly large "web" presence too. Techie folks are good targets.

Think CEO or similar.

You guys won't believe who I'm figuring on targeting first. There'll be cries of "that company is anti!" but after looking at things for a while, I'm of the opinion that they are essentially just ignorant - big difference. At any rate, controversy = publicity opportunities, and publicity = education opportunities.

What do you think?

bogie
January 1, 2008, 09:26 PM
So, bad idea? It's not an easy "preaching to the choir" kind of thing - I don't think that accomplishes anything more than a moment of "feelgood" within the culture.

Well, I've got an idea of what'll go up - I guess I'll hack something together...

Flyboy
January 1, 2008, 10:33 PM
I think it's a great idea. In fact, I'd draw up my list of candidates to include every company we can find with a "no CCW" policy. I can recommend several, including scans from the employee handbook for one.

AZTOY
January 1, 2008, 10:52 PM
Great Idea Bogie !! :D

WinchesterAA
January 1, 2008, 11:24 PM
Bogie, your idea doesn't immediately seem like it needs any help.. what exactly do you want *us* to do?

Nevertheless, it's interesting and if done properly would probably help.

I mean, really though.. I'm corporate exec A, how do you get me to do anything that would benefit you after you take me shooting?

Where does the publicity come from, and why does it come?

sig226
January 1, 2008, 11:47 PM
I think you would do better if you targeted specific groups, rather than businesses. Considering workplace shootings, some companies are likely to take a dim view of teaching their employees to shoot.

Several targeted efforts have been made. The NRA sponsors programs to teach women to shoot. A group of black shooters called The Buffalo Soldiers ran a day at the range for blacks. It seemed to be very good. There was a small club near me in New Jersey called the 1521 Society. They were Filipinos. They would take their friends to the range to demonstrate shooting. The Pink Pistols also does this.

The Boy Scouts still offers a merit badge for rifle shooting and shotgun shooting. That's a group to look at. My memories of scoutmasters were of guys who needed to find things to do and money to do it. A sponsored day for riflery might be well received. Couple it with the Eddie Eagle program and it's hard to say no.

Your local chamber of commerce might also be worth a look. Many of them may have considered buying a gun for their store, but they're still on the fence, or they never got around to it.

Is there a taxi company near you? I drove a cab for a while and took lots of those guys to the range. Volunteer fire departments and EMS might also produce some interest. These people are used to bad things happening, especially the cab drivers. :)

This sounds like a smart ass remark, but it isn't. Convenience store owners and gas station owners are two more groups that experience an inordinate share of crime. Some of them would be willing to listen.

What would you call this organization? I'm not saying you shouldn't bother, just that you're in for a lot of work with lots of resistance.

CNYCacher
January 2, 2008, 12:03 AM
Web Developer by trade, also run a hosting service. I can help out some. PM me if needed.

bogie
January 2, 2008, 12:20 AM
Well, thanks... Right now, I'm thinking Fortune 500ish...

In the case of the person who gave me the initial idea, I think that it could be used to encourage the company to better understand a segment of it's marketplace...

You see, the first domain I purchased was "www.takemegshooting.com."

When the campaign starts, we will need a concerted effort to go out and find gunnies to participate - at the minimum to send a short e-mail asking her, or her management team, to take advantage of a range day opportunity. For that day, assuming someone actually bites, I'd like to have the complete itinerary planned, from plane touchdown to wheels up... Safety training in vehicle on the way to the range, handgun, rifle, skeet, etc... Start with .22s, and go to boomers, a complete demo of the diversity of the sport. Rather than a single shooter/instructor, get expert instructors in each field to participate.

The site is going to need some sort of "guest book," that sort of thing... I dunno - sorta noodling around it.

When activity starts, we need to get some press out there - "Hey, we're inviting this person who is affecting our sport to go shooting - how 'bout it?" and see what happens.

The "large person" buzz will hopefully filter to "small person" type things - working on figuring out an adequate safety/activity program so that someone with little or no teaching/instructional experience can be comfortable and effective when taking someone out for the first time.

TexasSkyhawk
January 2, 2008, 12:40 AM
(Sorry, but gonna have to ask you some tough questions and play devil's advocate)

OK, as a semi-retired executive who would be in your target group, I have to ask . . .

"What's in it for ME?"

My time is valuable and scheduled sunup to sundown weeks in advance. Anything PR-related I do for my company needs to show tangible benefits SOMEWHERE . . . in the media (preferably) and in stock prices (even better).

So you wanna take me shooting? What the hell for? What's in it for me? What are you trying to do? I don't get it--why should I go shooting with someone I don't know, have nothing in common with and I'm not even sure how I feel about guns?

Bogie, how are any of us who might volunteer to "take a suit shooting" expected or supposed to respond to any of these questions?

Don't get me wrong--I'm all for educating more people and getting more people into the sport. Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association (AOPA) has Project Pilot where member pilots mentor aspiring pilots. We don't necessarily become their instructors (for which a separte rating is required), but we pass along our knowledge and encouragement or take our apprentice up in our own airplanes to keep the fires warm.

I like the idea of targeting corporate suits. Having shakers & movers on your side or at least neutral is always a good thing. But in order to be effective, we need a consistent, collective answer to the questions I posted above.

Jeff

2Ais4U
January 2, 2008, 01:27 AM
I'm in, keep us all posted.

bogie
January 2, 2008, 01:28 AM
Okay - anyone have any ideas? Or is this going to be a one-Bogie show when going for the larger target type of thing?

Damn fine questions - I'd couch it as a public relations opportunity for the exec/team, getting to gain significantly more understanding of a large segment of their marketplace, while at the same time gaining the chance to do some bridge-mending...

BTW, do you know who I'm talking about for the first prospective student? Who, by the way, has a VERY keen feel for the blogosphere...

bogie
January 2, 2008, 01:38 AM
Oh, and in addition, I'm -mostly- not looking for instructors. We can worry about a few volunteers when the time comes.

What we're going to need are people who...

a) are active on systems besides THR, who can spread the viral word...

b) who can contact other people regarding gaining media attention...

c) who can build contacts outside the shooting community to foster growth of the project...

Nitrogen
January 2, 2008, 01:49 AM
I'm in.

This is the type of thing that can really help us, and frankly, I'd love to be a part of.

While I'm not an instructor *YET* i'm slowly working my way into other areas, instructorhsip will be one of them.

As a "Liberal" i even speak their language. I'd be happy to work as a Liberalspeak to Gunspeak translater, even ;)

As far as an answer to "What's in it for ME" I have a simple response.
"Learn to target a whole new set of consumers that you never dreamed of. There are 44 million of us. Learn to speak our language, understand what moves us, and that we aren't evil. Learn how to SELL THINGS to us."

As you may or may not be able to tell, I'm a salesy type. I'm active in the "geek" community, as well as the firearms community. I have experience selling.

WinchesterAA
January 2, 2008, 04:48 AM
Where's all this gunna take place? A bunch of instructors taking a presumably new shooter to the range might be a bit cramped no?

I'm thinking it'd be better to hit up someone's land than a range, but then there's the overwhelming pressure of time, and land usually isn't close by.

Maybe rent a range for a day, or something like that..

The biggest hurdle you're gunna face is getting some face time with anybody that matters. Then there's the obstacle of a speech that doesn't compromise the project before it even gets heard (naturally I'm referring to the in or STFU comment.. No drama)

Next, and god forbid... What happens when he doesn't like it? The gun's too loud, too scared to shoot, blah blah etc etc, he just doesn't wanna do it?

Or if he does want to do it at first, but then decides it's just not for him or whatever.. What happens if the opposite of our intentions occurs?


I dunno.. Corporate might be a bit much.

Toss in a twist for you, though.. We've got a lot of people here with a lot of different perspectives, maybe we know more about people in the media than we think.. Maybe we should try to get a media fatcat to come play with us for a bit? Shooting for the stars, but there's a lot of em out there. I need sleep though, but hey.. I want something to believe in, nothing exists ATM that I care all that much about, this might be worth a shot.

Alternative 2 - Videotaped play by play of inexperienced ordinary people enjoying a day at the range courtesy of the THR crew would probably hit home a little harder. Tout the seldom heard pleasures of shooting such as stress-relief, and "Way the hell more fun than that crappy game with the jewels that kinda copies tetris that you play all day on your cellphone"

redneck2
January 2, 2008, 08:05 AM
My time is valuable and scheduled sunup to sundown weeks in advance. Anything PR-related I do for my company needs to show tangible benefits SOMEWHERE . . . in the media (preferably) and in stock prices (even better).

So you wanna take me shooting? What the hell for? What's in it for me? What are you trying to do? I don't get it--why should I go shooting with someone I don't know, have nothing in common with and I'm not even sure how I feel about guns?

There was a fund raiser for our local congressman at a sporting clays range near by. IMO, Sporting Clays kinda fits into the "gentleman's" sport more so than blasting away with a pistol grip shottie. Immediate gratification from seeing the bird break.

http://www.backfortysportingclays.com/

Kind of a golf outing using shotguns. Controlled environment. Clean, neat, organized. Clubhouse with food and drinks. Place to sit and eat, BS, come in out of the weather. Other shooters range from millionaire executives to farmers. You could get a zillion volunteers that shoot all the time and know what they're doing. Also, you could set the trap angles to make the birds easier.

The other thing to consider is staying away from pistols. If you're gonna win over somebody, I'd think something acceptable as clay birds would be the place to start. Not sure I want to hand my G20 with the M6 to someone that's never handled a pistol and doesn't want to. A black Sig or GLOCK is the essence of evil to non-shooters.

Just a thought. Nice to see somebody do something constructive instead of bitch and whine, or the obligatory "if they come for my guns I'll kill 'em"

bogie
January 2, 2008, 11:41 AM
As time goes, I'd like to get some youtube on the site, etc... Basically, just keep encouraging folks to takesomeoneshooting. And a larger corp player, with the right sort of creds, especially one who can affect our sport and culture, can provide a LOT of publicity, whether they take us up on it or not. Remember - we'll even settle for an underling, but this is a -pressure- campaign too - slightly adversarial, especially if we can get it to hit the media.

Well, overall, I'm thinking we can gain a bit more publicity with at least one major corp player...

I'm also figuring on a tightly organized itinerary, handing off the person from specialist to specialist. That is also, by the way, what they're generally used to...

"Okay - the boss is coming for a tour next week. Paint the hallways on 3rd floor of building one, and 2nd floor of building 2, along with the stairwells. Make sure the elevators are clean too. Now who do we have to demonstrate the robots?"

"Roger."

"Can he talk?"

"Pretty well - he used to be a grade school teacher."

"Okay - does he bathe?"

"More than some of the engineers."

"Okay - he'll work. Get him a white coat fitted with his name on it."

I'm figuring on a very generalist overview of the sport, held at a large club, within easy driving distance of an airport capable of handling small jets. Figure on starting off with rimfire handguns (with adequate eyes and ears, of course), up through some larger hunting and target rifles, including CMP-type stuff...

Now, the first plan is "takemegshooting." The prospective student is named Meg Whitman. I think we can get a LOT of media out of it with a bit of work. Do y'all want to start screaming now?

Owens
January 2, 2008, 11:55 AM
To address TesaxSkyHawks post above (#36), just a thinking out loud a liitle here.:

How many shooters (pro RKBA) are there in just the US? don't know, but a sizeable number.

Whats in it for the suits? Garnering a supporting eye from a large chunk of populace maybe? Good PR that would let this large number of folks see that Company XYZ is pro RKBA.

Again just kind of thinking out loud.

TexasSkyhawk
January 2, 2008, 01:13 PM
Damn fine questions - I'd couch it as a public relations opportunity for the exec/team, getting to gain significantly more understanding of a large segment of their marketplace, while at the same time gaining the chance to do some bridge-mending...

Uh-uh. That dog won't never hunt.

First, let me qualify myself to make that statement. Both my wife and I are retired, upper-level executives of the managing-director rank. We both retired from Fortune 50 companies and we both had much sway as to the direction of the companies we were employed by.

Let me throw just enough cold water on this fire so that we can look at strong, viable alternatives. The idea of a mass publicity campaign is decent, but what will be double effective will be to double our pro-gun numbers at the grass roots level. In other words, at our level.

My wife's company, headquartered in Legacy Park, Plano, Texas, is a Fortune 50 company. Frankly, the CEO's (whom my wife and I both know and are first name basis with) position on guns isn't known nor relevant to the company's product or consumer's perception of the product. Another CEO down the raod in Legacy Park that I know keeps his politics very close to his vest--that's just good, smart business.

Let's say that the CEO of JC Penneys (who we also know) comes out and does this thing. Gets his face all over TV and the internet.

Now what happens? We already see the apathetic nature of gun owners--only five million out of an estimated 75 million even care enough to drop $35 dollars once a year to the NRA. Others look for ANY excuse not to join or support ANY pro-gun organization. Think this little party is going to make them loyal to JC Penney and spend money there when they won't even drop a pittance to NRA?

Next question is, just how loyal are gun-owners as a whole (not just NRA members)? I try my damndest not to shop with anti-gun businesses, but often times it is damn near impossibe to either know or NOT to do business with. What is JC Penney's CEO turns out to be anti-gun--how many gun owners do you realistically expect will cut up their JC Penney credit cards?

Next question: Tagging JC Penney, as an example, as a pro-gun business simply based upon one shooting scenario/outing with their CEO does not make JC Penny a pro-gun business. Secondly, if an attempt is made to portray it that way, how many anti-gunners will rally to boycott? Smart businesses try very hard to remain apolitical. That's just good business. In business, politics are optional, cash flow is mandatory.

And once again, you're asking a chief executive officer to give up a good half day or more to spend at an unknown location with an unknown person who has a gun. Good luck, 'cause I don't think it's gonna happen. I honestly don't.

Now, if we have people who KNOW, and I mean truly know some of these biz types, then they might get them to a range. But in the instances of the two CEO's that my wife and I know well and are occasionally social with, they already know our stance on firearms and the Second Amendment.

Bogie, I am simply asking the questions that my wife and I both got paid a lot of money to first devise then answer.

These issues need to be addressed honestly and completely before getting a whole lot of people on board to volunteer their time, resources and efforts.

Jeff

Vermont
January 2, 2008, 03:55 PM
I am simply asking the questions that my wife and I both got paid a lot of money to first devise then answer.

I'm waiting...:D

bogie
January 2, 2008, 06:06 PM
Well, I've been out driving around, trying to take care of some funeral crap, so excuse me... I've been a little busy.

You're right - I don't think that we'll get a major exec to do this - HOWEVER, I think we could get a pretty fair degree of publicity out of it... Favorable publicity around the "take someone shooting" bit - which _would_ go a long way in increasing the number of participants in the sport. That's what I'm looking at, more than just the one person. But the one-person-campaign is the kind of thing that could drive a pretty good publicity campaign for the overall concept.

Now, did you notice who I'm talking about for the #1 prospective student?

In a documentary I watched the other night, about the _only_ group that she spoke about was gun owners, as she tried to explain the company's actions... I think we're fairly prominent in the company's corporate mind, since they _do_ realize that as a group, we're fairly well off, and the sort of customer that they like to have...

Now, I also used to work in a large company - Fortune 100 big pharma... Our head of research had a philosophy: "Do not come to me with a problem. Unless you have an idea about a solution!" And you know something - people thought about things... So... Any ideas?

Nitrogen
January 2, 2008, 06:55 PM
My idea?

Hook up with a marketing company or advertising agency.
Couch it as market education. The pitch outline would go like this:

Show them that there are 44 million gun owners.
Break that down further into socieoeconomic terms: most of them are professionals that have quite a bit of disposable income.

Next, show them some absolutely horrible examples of firearm-related ads, or publications. The "newsletter" that the TSRA puts out, for example, is ameturish.

Next, explain the gunowner creed. The four rules, etc. Our responsibility-mindedness, eye for safety, etc.

Now point out how whenever hollywood attempts to portray gun owners, it's seen by us as a joke

HERES WHERE YOU CAN COME IN! Let me show you how you can speak to these gunowners in a language they can understand.
That language should include our responsibility, etc.

Also encourage them to possibly sponsor some of these publications, giving publication knowhow. "TSRA'S Monthly newsletter, sponsored by BigHugeCo and BigHugeMediaConglomerate"

Diamondback6
January 2, 2008, 07:51 PM
Good idea, but it would be better to PM emails rather than publicly post them for all the world to see.

Bogie, let me know and I'll see what I can do to support the effort. I think you've got something here...

Zedicus
January 3, 2008, 04:29 AM
Another potential Dynamite person to get to agree to something like this would be some kind of local Celebrity.

(Weatherman, Local Paper Editor, local talk radio host, etc)

bogie
January 3, 2008, 06:16 AM
VERY true..

However, there's no such thing as a "local" "national" celebrity.

Remember - we're not looking for a "the other team is all at half court slam dunk" situation here... It feels good, it's exciting, but face it - it's only two points... We want the game-winner typestuff - or at least a couple of consecutive three-pointers...

(grew up in central Kentucky, near roundball mecca...)

Nobody's said anything yet about student #1?

collateral
January 3, 2008, 06:49 AM
count me in.

ilbob
January 3, 2008, 07:30 AM
I think you are seriously overestimating what email and web presence can do to someone who has a life that does not revolve around such things.

Zedicus
January 3, 2008, 11:39 AM
VERY true..

However, there's no such thing as a "local" "national" celebrity.


No, but it would get our Foot in the door, and be a step towards National Celebritys.

bogie
January 3, 2008, 04:05 PM
So, what do you guys think of an e-mail pressure campaign to take the CEO (or her management team...) of Ebay out for a pleasant day at a nice range?

Nitrogen
January 3, 2008, 08:34 PM
bogie: That's a great idea. That's exactly the type of thing that something like this might help.

bogie
January 3, 2008, 08:57 PM
Right - Her name is Meg Whitman, and from the documentary, she seems like a reasonable enough sort - business decisions, not "emotional" decisions, and she is VERY concerned about what the population as a whole thinks/does about the company. In addition, it's a good corp candidate, because, well, just about everyone knows what ebay is, and it's also a media-sexy subject.

Zedicus
January 3, 2008, 09:25 PM
So, what do you guys think of an e-mail pressure campaign to take the CEO (or her management team...) of Ebay out for a pleasant day at a nice range?

Dude!!!:cool:http://thehighroad.org/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://thehighroad.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

bogie
January 3, 2008, 10:57 PM
Okay - will start trying to get the site somewhat polished - anyone know how I do forms for a guest registration/poll kinda thing? I'm using Kompozer...

Guntalk
January 6, 2008, 07:11 PM
Just a few thoughts. If you don't entertain the "cold water" questions you set yourself up for failure. You must anticipate and prepare for the tough questions.

First, Jeff has asked good questions, and I've seen no response.

Every manager at ever level has one question for every proposal.

"What's In It For Me?" If you don't have a quick and solid answer, there is no point in contacting him/her in the first place. It's the heart of all selling, and this is just sales.

The sentiment for this effort is good, and it is similar to the "Step Outside" program started by the National Shooting Sports Foundation years ago. Basically, they suggest that each of us invite a friend to "step outside" with us.

"Putting pressure" on an executive will not motivate him/her to do anything other than brand us as lunatics.

Wanna make this kind of thing work? Get Steven Spielberg (sp?) to invite corporate types to a gala weekend outing where shooting is a big part of it. If not him, then someone of that level, where invitations are not turned down.

The idea of putting pressure on someone to force them into realizing that we are good people seems a bit sideways.

Can I twist this somewhat? How about a national effort to take teachers shooting? Lots of PR opportunities there, with lots of "ripped from the headlines" story lines. It's the "man bites dog" stuff that the media loves and can't ignore.

I'm not saying this effort should not be done. I just would suggest that every step along the way be measured with the "what's in it for me" micrometer.

bogie
January 6, 2008, 08:01 PM
Tom, the first person I'm thinking of approaching is Meg Whitman, CEO of Ebay... She -is- concerned with her company's PR around gun owners. In a recent documentary, we were one of the only groups who she specifically mentioned. She wants to retain us as customers, but at the same time, she is very risk averse regarding lawsuits and various state and local legislation. I think that she'd be amenable to a little education. And a bit of internet pressure from the blogosphere is something she'd understand. What's in it for her? A better understanding of a sizable segment of her target market, a day outdoors (not to be sneezed at...), and a bit of visibility.

And the fun part is that by using a high profile exec such as her as our first prospective student, we have a much better chance of getting some serious publicity. Even if she, or her management team, never takes us up on it, we still get that. And maybe we get some folks from _other_ ventures who are interested?

I'd also like to steer away from both reporters and "entertainment" people - treat this less like a "news event," and more like simple education. Many gun clubs have had media days, with very little success. Because, when it boils down, you can invite 'em, but you don't have a way to make 'em show up, and if they show up, you can't keep their attention...

The teacher thing is a good idea, but would definitely have to be grass roots.

Guntalk
January 6, 2008, 08:39 PM
>>I'd also like to steer away from both reporters and "entertainment" people - treat this less like a "news event," and more like simple education. Many gun clubs have had media days, with very little success. Because, when it boils down, you can invite 'em, but you don't have a way to make 'em show up, and if they show up, you can't keep their attention...<<

Sounds good. I'm not saying the concept isn't good, I just am skeptical about the ability to put pressure on people to do what you want. The phrase "trying to push a rope" comes to mind.

It's a good goal -- education and getting decision leaders to the range. It's the "how to" that presents challenges.

Keep me in mind if/when you want to get word out on it. We'll crank it up on the radio.

Good on ya!

nicki
January 12, 2008, 02:50 AM
Outreach is something we must do, and it is something that must be done in all areas of the country.

Gun sales will be up this year and I think the firearms industry should help this effort. For us, it is a loss of our freedoms, for them, it is a loss of their business.

We are going to be a very hostile political enviroment for the next decade. We need to go on the offense because if we don't do it now, we may never have a chance.

Nicki

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