Can anbody tell me about the SS109 / M855 ammo?


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MormonWarrior
January 1, 2008, 04:22 PM
I bought 150 rds of these at the gun show over the weekend. The guy who sold it to me, told me that these were armor piercing rounds, and that it could go through half an inch of steel. Is this true? It was $10 for a box of 20rds. I thought I got a good deal worth for armor piercing. I've been searching all over GOOGLE for information about the SS109, and so far haven't found anything useful.

I've got a Flat Top 16" A3 DPMS AR15. Will this round have any problems functioning inside my AR? It's also my first and only AR that I bought at the gun show. I don't want to put any rounds in it that will f**k it up.

Oh yeah, I need help because I don't know what's the best scope to put for my AR15. It's still flat at the moment. Which scopes can I use to shoot out to at least 400 yards?

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siglite
January 1, 2008, 04:34 PM
I've shot a bunch of it into 1" steel at ranges from 100 to 300m. It's yet to punch through. But you can definitely see a difference in the depth of the crater between the ss109 and standard FMJ. I assume that's the steel penetrator in the bullet that's accounting for that. I don't consider SS109 "armor piercing." It's got a bit more poke downrange, but it's not a magic bullet.

For me, the big bonus with SS109 is that my 1:7 twist barrels LOVE the stuff. Love it. And now because it's becoming unobtanium, it's becoming a problem for me. All of my dope for all of my 5.56 chambered rifles is based around that bullet. I've put several thousand of them downrange in the past few years, and darnit, I don't want to change everything and switch to another bullet weight.

As for scopes, your options are pretty much limitless. If you plan on shooting between 100 and 600, I'd recommend staying away from reflex and holo-sights unless you can combine them with a really good set of flip-down BUIS.

I honestly prefer fixed power scopes on ARs. 4 or 5 power should be sufficient, but that's a matter of personal preference. An issue with ARs and scopes (assuming you have a flat-top) is mounting. You need a fairly high mount so you can maintain cheekweld appropriately.

RockyMtnTactical
January 1, 2008, 04:42 PM
55gr FMJ .223 can perforate 1/2" steel too... but it just depends on the steel (not all steel is created equal). Mild steel is rather easy to perforate... and naturally, stronger steel will hold up better.

M855 is decent ammo for self defense, but it is at the bottom of the list of the better loads out there, IMO. Technically, it is not AP, but it is better than most lead core ammo because of the steel penetrator.

It is not match grade ammo either, US snipers and DM's usually try to get their hands on 77gr OTM Black Hills.

As for the scope, depends on purposes you have for it and the budget you are working with...

MormonWarrior
January 1, 2008, 04:54 PM
Thanks for the response. I feel a little disappointed because they're not really armor piercing. I was looking forward to shooting some steel plates over the weekend.

TexasRifleman
January 1, 2008, 05:05 PM
I feel a little disappointed because they're not really armor piercing

Depending on what state you live in you might be grateful. It's a crime in most states to have armor piercing ammo.

MormonWarrior
January 1, 2008, 05:14 PM
Rocky, the brand that I bought say's ADCOM Manufacturing Ltd. Small Arms Ammunition Manufacturer. 5.56x45mm Ball M855. It looks like a regular ball ammo. No distinguishing color on it or anything. It was sold to me as armor piercing. Even if it's not, I hope this round is accurate.

gcrookston
January 1, 2008, 05:33 PM
M855 ball (ss109), is 62 grain, steel core and a lot of fun. Here it is compared to 7.62 LC Nato ball

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9472/dsc001193hx.jpg
Shot with CYBERSHOT (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=CYBERSHOT&make=SONY) at 2005-06-22

siglite
January 1, 2008, 05:37 PM
hahah, gcrookston, that "copper daisy" pattern looks real familiar ;)

http://www.criticalstop.com/albums/Landscapes/crater3.sized.jpg

MormonWarrior
January 1, 2008, 06:12 PM
Glad i found some AP Ak ammos and SS109, and 5.56 tracers. These are hard to find in regular gun stores

Gun Wielding Maniac
January 1, 2008, 07:19 PM
M855 is regular 5.56x45mm ball ammunition. It is not armor piercing. The military AP load is M995, with the black tip.

Harley Quinn
January 1, 2008, 07:35 PM
That material is far from 1" or 1/2" for that matter. Gcrookson looks close to 1/4" as it sits.
My 22-250 does a better job than that for sure.
:neener:

siglite
January 1, 2008, 07:52 PM
The steel in my pic is 1". It was not penetrated. You can see the little water bead in the bottom, presumably where the penetrator went.

GJgo
January 1, 2008, 08:42 PM
Everything you could want to know about your question can be found here-

http://ammo.ar15.com/

Cavalryvet
December 12, 2008, 06:03 PM
I bought m855 for self defense with the idea that the bad guy might be driving away before I could nail him and with these proven armor piercing rounds I'd **** his ride up so bad with the hope of stopping him in his tracks or hitting him going thru his get away car but with the high danger of collateral damage I called that off and went with the 77grain hpfmjbt black hills any comments on my decision??????

Armalite M15A4C Special Purpose Rifle 1:9 16" love of my life

rcmodel
December 12, 2008, 06:08 PM
with the idea that the bad guy might be driving away before I could nail himShooting a retreating BG is considered murder in most jurisdictions.

Might want to re-think that stratigy!

rcmodel

BeltfedMG
December 12, 2008, 06:37 PM
M855/SS109 is great ammo....so long its made by a great company. Stay away from arabic (Adcom) and Olympic and you should be alright. Its not AP, its a mild/soft steel penetrator, its a real small portion of the bullet, its not the whole thing.

That dont mean it will run best in your gun, each gun is different and may choke on the best ammo out there and run with **** ammo and give excellent results. Just take a variety of ammo and your gun to the range, have fun and shoot them all to see which shoots best groups.

As far as fu&kin up a gun, stay away from the Adcom and olympic and your fine.

Jenrick
December 12, 2008, 06:42 PM
M885/SS109/Green Tip etc. is not an AP round in the sense of armor plate. It is an AP round in the sense of body armor. What type and spec of body armor, you can find easily by looking at body armor ratings.

-Jenrick

Gottahaveone
December 12, 2008, 07:01 PM
I bought m855 for self defense with the idea that the bad guy might be driving away before I could nail him and with these proven armor piercing rounds I'd **** his ride up so bad with the hope of stopping him in his tracks or hitting him going thru his get away car but with the high danger of collateral damage I called that off and went with the 77grain hpfmjbt black hills any comments on my decision??????
I'm sure that there will be plenty of follow up post ripping you for that statement, so I'll be nice ;)
Read what RCMODEL said, and then read it again. Much as you might hate the idea, and as much as I might want to say I agree with you in principal, that's a real No-No.

xx7grant7x
December 12, 2008, 07:08 PM
It's a crime in most states to have armor piercing ammo. definately not true, you can own and sell AP ammo but it is the manufacturing of AP that is regulated
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=401947
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIG1.html

benEzra
December 12, 2008, 07:21 PM
I bought m855 for self defense with the idea that the bad guy might be driving away before I could nail him and with these proven armor piercing rounds I'd **** his ride up so bad with the hope of stopping him in his tracks or hitting him going thru his get away car but with the high danger of collateral damage I called that off and went with the 77grain hpfmjbt black hills any comments on my decision??????
Here's a good primer on self-defense law. This is from NC, but the laws in most states are similar:

(1) Justified Self-Defense

A citizen is legally justified in using deadly force against another if and only if:

(a) The citizen actually believes deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, AND

(b) The facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force WAS necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, AND

(c) The citizen using deadly force was not an instigator or aggressor who voluntarily provoked, entered, or continued the conflict leading to deadly force, AND

(d) Force used was not excessive -- greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor."
(Emphasis added.)

Note that ALL FOUR conditions must be met in order for a shooting to be ruled justifiable. Note especially letter (b) above, which is the "reasonable person test"; contrary to Bradyite press releases, "feeling threatened" by someone else is NOT justification for the use of lethal force. The belief must be reasonable, i.e. "the facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force WAS necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault."

Most states also authorize potentially-lethal force to stop the commission of a forcible felony as defined by statute; in most states, this includes kidnapping, armed robbery, aggravated assault (i.e., assault likely or intended to maim or cause serious bodily harm and that could result in death), etc.; check your state laws for the particulars. But again, "feeling threatened" is not enough; you must be in legitimate fear of death or serious bodily harm.

There is also a provision in U.S. legal tradition called the Castle Doctrine that says that if someone is making an illegal forced entry into your home (whether by door or window, whatever), you are authorized to use whatever force is necessary to stop them and it would ordinarily be ruled justified; the presumption is that if the guy is kicking your door down, he's not there to sell magazine subscriptions.

Vaulter98c
December 12, 2008, 07:30 PM
the presumption is that if the guy is kicking your door down, he's not there to sell magazine subscriptions.

Thats Sig worthy right there

BeltfedMG
December 12, 2008, 07:33 PM
Have been in shoot outs before, last one i had 2 guys shooting in front yard at me while i was in house, me and wife returned fire till we emptied the guns, pulled the beltfed off the tripod and chased them down the rd shooting at them. When cops got there they said i could be arrested cause at the time i was chasing them down the rd....they was no longer attacking me so i had no right to shoot at them. I was justifieable when they was shooting at me only. Nothing happened, but dont shoot if they are fleaing, period!

Blakenzy
December 12, 2008, 07:47 PM
pulled the beltfed off the tripod and chased them down the rd shooting at them.

LOL...

longdayjake
December 12, 2008, 10:43 PM
If someone wants to try and kill me or my family they aint gonna leave when they run outta bullets. They gonna die running away so that I don't have to worry about them coming back. The very worst that could happen is I plead it down to manslaughter. But in Idaho I would probably be hailed as a hero and given a statue in the middle of the city. But things are different in other places from what I hear.

HorseSoldier
December 12, 2008, 11:16 PM
Besides the real risk of felony charges and associated prison time, the less and less good and righteous a self-defense shooting looks is just more and more ammunition being given to the lawyer you'll probably have to deal with in the wrongful death lawsuit the bad guys' family is likely to throw at you if the SD shooting is not completely aboveboard (and even then, possibly . . .).

Spending the rest of one's life paying your kids' college fund to the relatives of some drug-addicted, career-scumbag home invader just because he was too tempting a target as he fled would have a huge suck factor.

Have been in shoot outs before, last one i had 2 guys shooting in front yard at me while i was in house, me and wife returned fire till we emptied the guns, pulled the beltfed off the tripod and chased them down the rd shooting at them.

???

Did you move to Missouri from Rhodesia or Bosnia?

Coronach
December 12, 2008, 11:23 PM
I hope that was sarcasm. ;)

taliv
December 12, 2008, 11:27 PM
i hate to spoil you guys' fun, but the OP's last activity was in March.

remain calm.

Kind of Blued
December 13, 2008, 05:28 AM
Why is it that all of the people who advocate hunting down fleeing criminals and shooting them in the back also have a poor command of grammar?

tim71
December 16, 2008, 11:04 PM
The laws in Missouri recently changed. Basically now, you sign your life away as soon as you enter somebody's home. Used to you had to fear your life was in danger but not anymore.

Tim

possum
December 17, 2008, 02:52 AM
m855 is 62gr, green tip with a steel core. will it go through steel? yes how thich at what ranges? i don't know.

m856 is the 62gr tracer.

m193 is the 55gr fmj

you should be good as long as it isn't the lake city 2nd's and 3rds, crap that everyone likes to sell to ar owners for such a "great deal"

Shooter88
December 17, 2008, 10:31 AM
Black tip (M995, I think?) is armor piercing, and it has a tungsten rather than steel core. M855 is just regular old ball. Ball will still punch through mild steel pretty well, however.

Furthermore, armor piercing rifle ammo is perfectly legal in most cases; look at all the .30-06 AP in civilian hands. So-called "armor piercing" pistol ammo is illegal, thanks to the gun-grabbers' panic mongering about "cop killer bullets"; then again it doesn't really take too much to ventilate soft body armor. When I think armor piercing I think anti-material purposes - even a .30-30 soft point will penetrate the soft armor police wear.

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