What could cause this?


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rc109a
January 1, 2008, 06:14 PM
I was fortunate to be given a large sum of 223 brass. Most of it was excellent, but I cam across 100 or so that looks like these:
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/rc109a/IMG_0229.jpg

What could cause this? Would you even attempt to reload them? I know I am not going to, but I was sondering who would. This is the type of brass:
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/rc109a/IMG_0234.jpg

A close up:
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/rc109a/IMG_0233.jpg

The rest of the sample group:
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/rc109a/IMG_0231.jpg
I noticed the extractor marks. Is that normal? None of my previous fired brass shows this heavy marks. Thanks for your opinions...

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Noxx
January 1, 2008, 06:16 PM
I can't tell you what caused it, but I surely wouldn't reload it.

sublimaze41
January 1, 2008, 06:39 PM
Military automatic weapon??? I was a tanker 25 years or so and the Coaxial machine gun chewed up 7.62 brass like this.

Recycle that brass the Chinese need it.

gunman42782
January 1, 2008, 06:40 PM
My guess is it was fired in a full auto machine gun and those dents are where the gun jammed and caught the brass between the bolt and chamber. Looks like some hot loads too, as the primers are all cratered. And no, I would not reload them.

dcloco
January 1, 2008, 06:49 PM
Poorly timed AR15.

rc109a
January 1, 2008, 06:53 PM
This is 223 cases. I was wondering if someone was having an issue with FTF or eject? What about the brand? I have never dealth with this type of brass. I do not belive that we (US government uses this type). I belive it is British? Are the extractor marks normal? Could there have been a problem with over pressure and having a hard time extracting? None of my other brass looks like this.

Taurus 617 CCW
January 1, 2008, 06:58 PM
My FN FAL does the same thing with .308 brass when the gas is turned all the way up. I think it has something to do with gas expenditure and speed of extraction. I would not recommend reloading them as the chamber wall is thinner in the area of the dents. They would make great dummy rounds if you want to reuse the brass for something.

dstark
January 1, 2008, 07:14 PM
When rapid fireing my mini-14 alot of shells come out with similar dings in them, just not as bad. I still choose not to reload them.

RecoilRob
January 1, 2008, 09:59 PM
I'm guessing that they were fired in an AK. They bounce off the dust cover during ejection.

rc109a
January 1, 2008, 10:06 PM
AK's fire 223? I have never found one like that overseas. Maybe an aftermarket barrel?

joneb
January 1, 2008, 10:24 PM
When rapid fireing my mini-14 alot of shells come out with similar dings in them,
Dings ? They look more like dongs to me :D

mswestfall
January 1, 2008, 10:53 PM
The round was originally produced by Royal Ordnance Factory Radway Green, Radway Green, UK. It is 5.56 NATO ammo. It was produced in 1990 and had a 63 grain bullet.

Being 5.56 mm it was probably loaded to about 2.255 OAL. I don't know anything about use other that a M16/M4 application.

The brass is usually a little thicker than commercial .223 Remington.

The picture titled "A Close up:" looks like something moved in the crushing action to make the scratches; maybe stovepiping. That's my guess.

I've fired about 500 rounds of the surplus stuff and reloaded about 50 rounds. It works well for me.

fatelk
January 1, 2008, 11:14 PM
I would have to agree with RecoilRob; they look like they were fired in something with aggressive extraction, and dented as they hit the dust cover.

Personally I would have no problem reloading them. Dents like that don't bother me a bit; I've loaded worse. On the other hand, I don't like the looks of the case heads. It looks like the brass has "flowed" from excessive pressure. That might cause me to chuck them in the scrap pile.

scrat
January 1, 2008, 11:44 PM
There is no way i would reload that. Some of those look just like they are too close to being a ruptured case. Thats some serious pressure to do that.

John4me05
January 1, 2008, 11:53 PM
I use alot of brass similar to that (not as deeply done but minor dings very similar in shize and shape but not depth)... I have even seen where they came from.. Some guys have ARs and such around here and ill pick just fired factory brass up off the ground while they reload their mags and thats the mark thats left on it...

Granted if they were that bad they would go into the bucket for the scrap yard but what i get to use is just lightly dinged.. I make plink loads out of the dinged stuff.. Just something to practice off hand shooting and breathign techniques with... Light loads with cheapy tips

SDC
January 2, 2008, 12:00 AM
RecoilRob called it; the heavy square ejector mark is typical of AKs, and the heavy circular imprint is the spot on the breechface that's been milled out for the extractor.

Blackfork
January 2, 2008, 12:04 AM
I had a Valmet M76 I think that dented brass like that. .223 brass is so cheap or free that I would pass on reloading. Primer bulging looks like a lot of pressure which might have helped mis-time the gas system. Seems like SAW ammo looks like this as well. Could have been fired in an AK clone.

As long as YOUR system isn't doing this, you are OK. Military 5.56 meant to be fired in full auto systems is crimped in so it can really take a pressure beating.

bl4ckd0g
January 2, 2008, 01:44 AM
Definitely looks like something fired out of an AK clone.

Ejector and extraction dents often aren't a big deal for reloading, but these have creased the case wall, so they're useless to reload.

<SLV>
January 2, 2008, 05:45 AM
Izhmash makes the Saiga AK in many calibers including .223.

English Bob
January 2, 2008, 05:53 AM
Looks like an AK or Valmet and I have a SIG551 which does exactly the same thing to the cases. I do reload them but only a couple of times before dumping them and strating again with new cases.

I can post pics if you like.

Some UK Police Firearms units use the SIG551.

Walkalong
January 2, 2008, 08:56 AM
The primers look like sloppy fireing pin/fireing pin hole fit more than pressure, but the case heads do have some pretty good marks. Perhaps the brass is just soft. Who knows.

Get a feeler of some type, a paper clip will do in a pinch, and check inside the cases for signs of impending case head seperation. Dents on the cases 1/2 way down the side won't hurt a thing unless they are sharp, more like a crease, and a couple are close to that for sure.

joab
January 2, 2008, 09:23 AM
I was wondering if someone was having an issue with FTF or eject?Doon't know about the extractor marks but I have had very similar dents on my cases from my AR

It only happened with one magazine and most often with Wolf

Tye mag would not feed the round properly and it would go in at an extreme slant that would almost wedge the case against the top of the chamber, using the forward assist would get results ranging from dents similar to your and crush and bent cases depending on how far the round made it into the chamber before I assisted

rc109a
January 2, 2008, 09:27 AM
Ok, thanks. I am not going to reload these. I will throw them in the recycling bin and just use the others. This was not fired through my gun and was just curiouse. I also noticed the primers were pretty distorted and though overpressure. Anyway thanks for the opinions...

SSN Vet
January 2, 2008, 11:18 AM
looks like it came from an "AK" chambered in .223...

I've been advised that the dents in the wall on x39 AK brass are reloadable, but those pictured look like they are deeply creased.

Ol` Joe
January 2, 2008, 11:25 AM
Maybe ran through a M249 SAW?

strat81
January 2, 2008, 11:26 AM
+1 for the AK theory.

rc109a
January 2, 2008, 02:58 PM
Well I know it was not a M249 at a public range. I highly doubt it was through an AK since you really don't find too many chambered in 223. Most of this brass was picked up after the police and coast guard did a qualification at the range. I guess like other said it most likely was the round striking the brass deflector. The extration marks are pretty bad and the primer looks like signs of overpressure. I just thought this was interesting to see what others thought the reason could be.

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