[tarkio]

I am looking to get or setup a shotgun for home defense and I must confess a great deal of ignorance when it comes to shotguns.

I recently purchased a used Remington 870 that needs the butt stock replaced. My question revolves around knowing what type of barrel I should have on there (no choke, choke, which choke etc.). How do I tell what the current barrel is?

I am planning on putting a simple synthetic butt stock, no pistol grips or anything like that. Does that make sense to you defensive shotgunners?

What else do I need? Mag extension perhaps?

Thanks.

[Evocatii]

I am in the process of doing the same thing. I bought an 870 Express new and the only thing I am doing is replacing the 28" barrel with an 18" factory barrel (no choke). There is only one 18" barrel that they sell. No mag extension, as what it has should be enough and if it isn't, I have a S&W 686P to help out.

Its all business. Nothing fancy.

[revolverman357]

I just bought a 20" smoothbore barrel for my 870 to replace the 28" for HD.
Loaded with 00 buck or rifled slugs is all I need.

If you need a buttstock, Hogue makes a nice one for around $50.00

Nothing fancy, just business here also.

[Bailey Boat]

I have built numerous HD shotguns using the 870 platform. Usually I start with a box stock gun, add a 3 shot mag extension, a light with pressure switch and cut the original barrel to be about 1/2" longer than the mag extension. It usually falls between 19 and 20", completely legal.
Cutting the original barrel saves on the cost of a new barrel and it removes any and ALL choke that may have been there to begin with.
The finished product will be 40" overall and weight will vary according to what and how many shells are loaded. MAX capacity will be 8 and it will add weight to the muzzle to help prevent rise when fired. In use the butt stock is placed under the arm which helps to reduce felt recoil as well as adding a little something to help retention.
Add the cost of the gun ($?????) mag extension (29.00) the light (89.00) and a barrel clamp (10 to 12.00) and that's about it.........

[TimM]

In use the butt stock is placed under the arm which helps to reduce felt recoil as well as adding a little something to help retention.

Are you kidding me? That is very poor advice and should not be taken seriously - that is no way to shoot a shotgun or any other firearm.

[scbair]

Actually, the underarm technique works pretty well at close range.

[tarkio]

So from what I am reading, you want no choe but how do I tell on this shtgun if the bbl is choked?

Thanks. been helpful so far.

What about simple basic sights?

[Constantine-p89]

The Mossberg 500 with a 20 inch barrel and 12 gauge buckshot loaded.

[msgttbar]

It really doesn't matter what the choke on your barrel is since you are going to either spend $80- $100 to replace it or buy a hacksaw for $5 to cut it off. Here is one stock available for your 870.
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/accessories/shotgun-stocks/p/shotgun-side-folding-stock-and-forend-for-remington-870-rem0100/cPath/1_22/products_id/1768

There are many others available.

[HOLY DIVER]

i personaly would never hacksaw a shotgun barrel
i'd take it to a gunsmith have it cut to 20" and tapped for chokes
remington may offer a 20" barrel with screw in chokes not sure though
pretty sure you can get a 22"with screw in chokes

[tarkio]

But what I am understanding these guys to say is that I do not want/need a choke in a defensive shotgun.

Is that correct guys?

Also, what about nice simple, easy to use, durable, dependable sights?

Thanks again.

[SA Friday]

Remington makes a rifle sighted smooth bore 22" barrel with an IC choke, not threaded for changing chokes. It works just fine, and doesn't require any gunsmithing. A solid mag tube extender (and longer spring) and you are there. Anything else is personal preference.

BTW, there is absolutely nothing wrong with placing the stock under the arm for close quarters firing with a shotgun.

[TimM]

BTW, there is absolutely nothing wrong with placing the stock under the arm for close quarters firing with a shotgun.:banghead:

****just shaking my head**** Whatever works for you I guess.

[Fred Fuller]

tarkio,

Welcome to THR-

The most important part of any defensive shotgun is 'the nut that holds the butt." In other words, the shooter. Your skillset is more important than your hardware.

As to the shotgun, a barrel from 18- 21" is about right. For a genuine 'house gun' a Cylinder bore (no choke) will work OK at close range. Most Remington factory short barrels these days have Improved Cylinder fixed chokes, older ones will still be CYL. Choke markings on 870s are stamped into the barrel just in front of the receiver on the left side of the chamber area (left looking from the butt of the gun). Note that a barrel may have been shortened and had its factory choke removed in the process, so the marking might not be accurate. There are a good many 'slug' barrels out there, most are 20" with rifle type sights. Be sure you stick to a smoothbore barrel though, some of those with sights are rifled. Rifling's good for sabot slugs, but bad for buckshot patterns.

There are LOTS of parts (including extra barrels) for 870s around, if you need a replacement stock because yours is unserviceable it shouldn't be too hard to find. eBay lists a couple pages of them, larger gun shops and gunsmiths in your area may have some in stock, too. Just make sure the gun fits you properly and has a good recoil pad.

Start off using the gun without a magazine extension- the practice in loading and shooting will be good for you. To quote shotgun sensei Louis Awerbuck, "No magazine is ever big enough." Learn to feed that puppy as it barks (shoot one, load one) and you'll be better off than trying to find a way to cram in just one more round. You can always try a magazine extension later, after you learn not to depend on one.

Look for a way to mount a good white light source on the gun. That's about the only extra that's on the 'short list'. A weapon light is no substitute to having a handheld flashlight too, but IMHO a defensive shotgun should have everything on board you will need if you have to grab it at 0dark30.

IMHO that includes a reload- either in a butt cuff, Sidesaddle or Speedfeed stock. Each has its own adherents, some like none of them- but I want a reload on the gun when I pick it up.

The gun sitting at my left elbow as I type this has a 13" LOP stock, an 18" Modified choke barrel (factory fixed choke) and rifle type sights with Tritium inserts (also from the factory). It only took me a few years of serious looking to find one of these barrels, BTW- it's an 870P barrel and they only have 'em in stock if some PD or SO orders a bunch of 870s with this barrel and there are extras available.

It has a 6-round Sidesaddle, a Remington 2-shot magazine extension and clamp, with a clamp-on mount that wears a Streamlight M3 light. It's built on an Express receiver. There's five rounds of 00 buckshot in the magazine and 6 Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddle.

That's not saying it's the be-all and end-all of defensive scatterguns. It's not saying it's what you need or should necessarily want. I live on 5 acres in the country and a shotgun is my go-to gun if I have a chance to reach for more than the S&W snubbie in my pocket. I might need to make shots 50- 100 yards away with this 870, and so I want more than across-the-room capability from it.

hth,

lpl/nc

[tarkio]

Lee, what's your opinion on a pistol vs. straight grip? I am inclined to get a straight grip. No folding stock or anything like that. Just a decent simple butt stock.

[czbegenner]

Ok guys so what if he wants to add an extension mag to his 870,(8 shot) how
will he do this guys? I have a tacital 870 holding 4 rounds,but i also have an 8
round extension that i will be adding on as soon as i drendel the groves that hold the follower out,is that right?

[Fred Fuller]

tarkio,

I literally grew up with a pump shotgun in hand, and I have never found a pistol-gripped shoulder stock that felt as good or pointed as instinctively for me as a conventional stock. But IMHO it depends on what you learned early along in your shooting career- if you got your start with an M-16 in basic training in one of Uncle Sams Schools For Wayward Boys, you might well feel more comfortable with a pistol grip stock. It just depends on what works for you.

The only 'best' with most of these things is what works best for any given individual, although I do believe it is best to start out with a basic shotgun and learn to run it like it grew at the ends of your arms. Of course, I think every real adult should know how to drive a standard transmission vehicle too, so that might be a clue about how much attention you want to pay to what I think 8^).

No matter what style of stock you get, proper fit is the critical issue. Most people can handle a stock that is a bit too short for them much better than they can one that is a bit too long. And a really good recoil pad (Limbsaver, KickEez, Remington R3, etc) is a big help too. I like wood furniture because it is generally easier to adjust the fit of the gun with wood. For synthetic stocks I like the SpeedFeed 2 'solid' stock- it isn't really solid, but the sidewalls are a LOT thicker than other synthetics.

I've never found a folding or collapsible stock I cared for either, and I started experimenting back in the late 1970s when I bought my first LE trade-in 870 (a Wingmaster Riot gun) just because it had such a kewl LAW ENFORCEMENT USE ONLY top-folding steel Remington stock. That sucker drew blood (mine) the first time I shot it, it wasn't long before it was replaced by walnut.

Sometimes it takes a little experimentation to find out what works for you, just keep at it till you do. This is shotgunning, not rocket surgery brain science- don't make too much of it. It's supposed to be just a tad more complicated than pointing your finger, after all 8^).

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc

[jonboynumba1]

You can go as simple or as crazy as you want on these. The basics are simple. Order an 18" IC bead sighted bbl. I think midway has one for $100 and you can get a simple replacement stock cheap..you may as well go synthetic for price and ruggedness. Add a spandex shell holder on the butstock and you have a good cheap usable riotgun (suggest a sling swivel to hold the shellholser in place snug or put a piece of that rubbermade tacky shelf liner stuff under a part of it on the bottom so it wont walk around on you in use. If there is one item worth spending for it's a light...typically surefire is the best one...you can find them used or new on gunbroker or ebay...they aint cheap but they work well. You could also pop rivet a piece of $2 weaver rail on the forend and put a 6P (ect) taclight in a weaver ring. The old ones didn't hold up great with actual shooting involved bulb wise with this method but you can help by using the one piece battery with 2 123's shrink wrapped together (seems to batter bulb less under recoil) and you can get the reinforced head the SG system uses...it will fit on a 6P housing. However the new LED lights seem to be vastly more recoil resistant. Though I have not shot them live extensively myself I have buds that work at a training school that do...so I tend to buy their input on stuff like that. I'm just running a $10 LED upgrade in my old 6P...so far so good.

mag extentions pretty much choat or wilson/scattergun tech...second being much nicer. Some seem to like one follower or the other better...have never figured out why that is exactly. I keep both to try in a given gun. I like shorter stocks as well...you could just find a takeoff rear cheap on ebay or where-ever and wack 1-1/1/2" off it and have somebody grind your recoil pad down to fit well and be done with it...you can also get a limbsaver/Remington R3 recoil pad while you're at it...I just added one to my setup and LOVE it. Best $35 I ever spent.

I'll leave the rest of the i-net cool upgrade options to the other posters....but when in doubt keep it simple.

[czbegenner]

besides a drendel what can you use to get rid of the dimples? ive got a drendel, but can i use it on a hand drill?

[Rshooter]

Gads, I belong to the keep it simple club. For what it is worth get a good stock and barrel and spend the rest on ammunition and range time! Nothing beats time getting familiar with your weapon. The USMC used standard 870's for years without all of the toys. Do not get a pistol grip, with the exception of a Knoxx, unless you know what you are doing.

I hate side saddle ammo carriers and they are worthless if you cannot get the ammo out of the carrier and into the shotgun under stress, a pocket works even better.

I enjoyed the story about the Remington folding stock. I bought a stock Remington factory police build because it had everything I hate about shotguns in one package. It is now my favorite shotgun, I do not mind the metal stock even with slugs but the pistol grip will rip your wrist off.

[rantingredneck]

Numrich recently had speedfeed II used synthetic stock sets for 29.50. I bought two sets of them myself. Good deal.

[The Deer Hunter]

The Mossberg 500 with a 20 inch barrel and 12 gauge buckshot loaded.

Did you even bother reading any of the posts?

[darrellkansas]

So from what I've read here a pump action, 18 inch smooth bore barrel (no rifling),no choke (cylinder bore) with 00 buck will be good for a home defense shotgun ?

[proud2deviate]

So from what I've read here a pump action, 18 inch smooth bore barrel (no rifling),no choke (cylinder bore) with 00 buck will be good for a home defense shotgun ?

Yeah, that setup is pretty decent. It's not the only way to go, though. My recently acquired 870 has a 20" improved cylinder choke barrel with rifle sights. The big reason for a short barrel is maneuverability in the tight spaces of your home. I find 20" still serves this purpose well, while giving me another round in the mag.

Tighter chokes will generally pattern tighter, and I considered that to be a good thing. IMP CYL chokes are also supposed to do very well with slugs.

[esq_stu]

Smoothbore with rifle sights - good for both slugs at distance and buckshot. I put one on my 870 20ga along with an extended tube.

[pbearperry]

For home defense,I would be afraid to use 00 Buck due to penetration problems.I think a better alternative would be using #2 shot or maybe #4 Buck.I saw a guy who was shot in the stomach close range with 12 gauge #7 1/2 shot.He was down and out for the count and dead.Even the paper wads were inside of him.

[darrellkansas]

The 870 Im looking at is a express magnum,no threads for a choke.Can it shoot non-magnum shells?
The improved cylinder choke barrel is this a non-threaded barrel?Kinda like a built in non-changeable choke barrel?
I dont have any experiance with shotguns.
This will be my first.

[proud2deviate]

Yep, if it's not threaded for choke tubes, then it's generally called a "fixed choke". Fixed choke remington barrels usually have the type of choke stamped towards the rear of the barrel. The four main types of choke, in order of increasing constriction, are cylinder (no choke, AFAIK. also called open. Stamp will read "CYL") Improved Cylinder, (stamped "IMP CYL") Modified (stamped "MOD",) and Full (never seen one, so I'm not sure about the stamp.) Less commonly encountered are things like improved modified, and extra full or turkey chokes.

There's no problem shooting standard shells in a magnum receiver. In general, you can use shorter shells than what's stamped on the barrel, but not longer. You have to pay a bit of attention here, because the shell length refers to the fired length of the shell. Thus, you can chamber a 3" shell in a 2 3/4" inch gun, but you can't expect to fire it safely. (not sure what would happen, exactly, and I'm not eager to find out first hand-like.)

[Jeffreii]

I don't think the criminal will care what size barrel you have, how many rounds you have, what shot size you are using, what type of stock you have, what choke the barrel is, what type of sights you use, what color.... etc etc. All he (or she!!!) is concerned about is if you are able to hit them. Thats what matters...take whatever you have out and try it out - if you have really small rooms, or large open rooms, adjust accordingly and build your gun so YOU with YOUR gun hits what you are intending to hit.

What is better - having the best setup and missing or having the worst setup and hitting? You miss, the thug may try and get you. Any thugs worth their wickedness are not scared of guns. They are scared of people who know how to use guns.
my 2cents

[Waywatcher]

A youth size stock might fit you well if you're short-ish (< 5' 6" or so) and would cut 1" off the OAL.

18" cylinder choke, bead sight seems to fit the bill. For close shotgun shooting rifle sights seem to be a disadvantage for me. I like a vent rib or a bead.

[Waywatcher]

For home defense,I would be afraid to use 00 Buck due to penetration problems.

I use the low recoil stuff and its sure easy on the shoulder and has reduced penetration as a result--although still enough to count. Also, check out www.theboxotruth.com for some fun penetration tests involving actual drywall and other stuff. IIRC Buckshot of any type penetrated less than most pistol rounds.

[boots]

i just purchased a stock new in box remington 870 police magnum with the blued finish and wood furniture...the only thing i plan on replacing is the plastic follower, although i probably don't need to....has a 4+1 capacity...i considered a 2 shot extension, but decided not to....i just love the balance the way it is now...

i'm with the old school folk in terms of hd shotguns...keep it simple...and practice a lot with the ammo you will be using...

what is it again??? BA/UU/R....Buy Ammo/Use Up/Repeat...


forgot to add that i also have a marine magnum...it comes standard with 18.5" barrel and a 2 shot extension....when fully loaded, it is a bit muzzle heavy compared to my stock 4+1 capacity police magnum...the marine magnum balances okay, but the police mag points and balances so much better...in a home defense gun, capacity is important, but i think pointability counts a bit more...you want to hit what you shoot at...

[md7]

welcome to thr darrellkansas.

an Express Magnum will handle 2.75 and 3 inch shells. if your barrel does not have threads for a choke it is called a "fixed choke" barrel. it is like a built in choke. although i'm not 100% certain, i think that you can have a cylinder bore barrel threaded to take chokes if you want.

[czbegenner]

And i think that your right