Opinions please (range related) (sorry its long but wanted to cover all bases)


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John4me05
January 2, 2008, 02:29 PM
I was at my local shooting range Monday to re-zero my 223... Well there was a mature man (low 30s minimum) along with his 2 sons (between 7 and 10 best guesses on both man and kdis ages)... Well when i wanted to go put a target up and his eldest son shot the man told him to clear his gun (single shot 22LR) he fumbled with it and cocked it again (first gun it appeared) and the man gently reprimanded him opened the bolt for him and told him to lay it on the table with the action opened. So i put up targets and come back.. Well others showed up and went to set up their targets and this guy would open his lever Henry 22 and proceed to look down range through the scope with people on the range... HE EVEN DID THIS WHEN HIS OWN KIDS WERE DOWNRANGE... I refused to walk down when he was doing this and his sosn picke dup on it and were looking through scopes as well with others down range.. The other shooters either seemed not to notice this or didnt care but i wouldnt walk down reguardless while they were anywhere near their guns for fear of them doing it when my back was turned...

Now this is a public range with no master on duty or anywhere else for that matter... I havent ever had this problem before because others have been there and firmly stated to put the guns down... I have thought to myself the way they put it they sounded like the male reproductive organ...

What is a good way to inform other seemingly uneducated people of proper conduct.. I dont want to be a butt about it and refuse to put myself infront of their muzzle wether i am 90* off center of it 100 feet away or not... The man seemed nice enough but with his gross neglegence in holding a weapon downrange when people are on the range it struck me as he very well could take offense to being called out and turn the gun on me with a round in it...

Should i try to find out if there is anyway to post range rules and have it as attendee policing to where crimes can be filed if extreamly unsafe conditions are being presented or what...

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Omaney
January 2, 2008, 02:40 PM
Sir, Please do not handle your firearms when shooters are in front of the firing line. Please set your firearms down on the table with the actions open and step away from the bench. That way all of us can be confident that accidents will not happen. Thank you.

XDKingslayer
January 2, 2008, 02:47 PM
Yep. What Omaney said. Our range even has an orange line painted on the deck 3 feet behind the shooting bench. You're not allowed past it once the range is cold.

John4me05
January 2, 2008, 02:58 PM
Thats sounds better than what i have heard said before... Thanks.. Anyone else have a opinion or similar experience and how did you or whomever handle it..
I have even heard some guys that OC or CC say that if they go down range once more and see a gun pointed down range with someone on or behind it they were gonna draw... Those are the type of people i refer to as sounding liek they are male reproductive organs

Zundfolge
January 2, 2008, 04:07 PM
Now this is a public range with no master on duty or anywhere else for that matter
Do they have a sign outlining all the rules of the range? Usually "don't touch your gun while the range is cold" is one of the rules.

I go to a private range that doesn't have any supervision, but we have a big (about 5' x5') sign with all the rules on it so you can always refer a newbie to them.

junyo
January 2, 2008, 04:19 PM
Sir, Please do not handle your firearms when shooters are in front of the firing line. Please set your firearms down on the table with the actions open and step away from the bench. That way all of us can be confident that accidents will not happen. Thank you.
I guess "Sir" is likely to get a better reaction than than my standard "Hey jackoff".

Public ranges are always a problem. If I go to one, I almost always take a buddy, or try to buddy up with someone there who looks sane, and trade trips downrange in exchange for backing the other up at the firing line. And sometimes, if there's one bad actor, you just have to be a "male reproductive organ" and appoint yourself the acting range officer. If there's more than one offender, I'll just leave.

siglite
January 2, 2008, 04:34 PM
I've found that if your words and most importantly your tone is polite, but matter of fact, people will comply with safety requests. Dealt with it myself this weekend. A "clear" was called on the range, and a dad asked his son if his .22 was "on safe." I politely, and with no aggression or condescension in my tone said "I'd prefer if that rifle were unloaded and cleared before I went downrange."

The father was I think, a little embarrased, but not badly. And he did indeed comply with a smile. And not a smart-assed smile either. Upon my return to the line after setting up my targets, I politely thanked them.

But then, I have horror stories too.

But most of the time, if you're polite, and not a jerk about it, people will comply. Most are interested in safety, if not used to its practice.

Omaney
January 3, 2008, 12:38 AM
Yeah, normally I am pretty sarcastic. I am rarely sarcastic or anything but polite when there are firearms around. I think you're almost duty bound to be the voice of reason on a range. I have never been offended by a correction on the range, regardless of who might be doing the correcting.

Deanimator
January 3, 2008, 12:48 AM
I have even heard some guys that OC or CC say that if they go down range once more and see a gun pointed down range with someone on or behind it they were gonna draw
Well that was certainly my reaction once... after a friend and I heard the crack of bullets going past us AFTER we'd called a cease fire, and AFTER the morons doing the shooting said they "wasn't shootin' AT us, they was shootin' PAST us." Our next stop was Ft. Knox Range Control. They'd left by the time we got back. I guess they didn't figure they'd win a urinating contest with an Armor captain, an Infantry Captain, Range Control and the post MPs.

There's ignorant and then there's just Darwin defying stupid.

jrfoxx
January 3, 2008, 12:48 AM
I'd just nicely and politely tell them their actions bother me, an to please not handle thier guns when I'm downrange.Unless the guy is a total a##, and you dont speak down to them, or be a jerk about it yourself, most people are pretty reasonable and will just apologize (or at least comply wit the request) and leave it at that.If they dont stop, or act like jerks about it, just pack up and leave, and find out who to notify about it.Personally, when I used a public range, when someone was going downrange, I'd clear the gun, lay it down, and take several steps back away from it, if I wasnt going downrange too.Not that hard or inconvieniant for me to do, and then no one gets uncomfortable, and there's no chance of an accident or confrontation.Thats just me though, the stepping away part, I dont mind if others dont do, as long as they arent touching the gun, and at most, just reload mags or such.I just PERSONALLY like to step away to make myself and everyone else more comfortable and eliminate ANY possibility of any issues.

siglite
January 3, 2008, 01:29 AM
I just PERSONALLY like to step away to make myself and everyone else more comfortable and eliminate ANY possibility of any issues.

I do the same thing. I consider it basic courtesy and safety.

rrruuunnn
January 3, 2008, 01:39 AM
sometimes it's not even what you say, but how you say it. just say to them in a matter of fact matter. like you really don't care. but you really do care alot inside. people won't feel like their being pounced on.

akodo
January 3, 2008, 07:13 PM
Sir, Please do not handle your firearms when shooters are in front of the firing line. Please set your firearms down on the table with the actions open and step away from the bench. That way all of us can be confident that accidents will not happen. Thank you.

I'd throw him a bone and follow up with. I can see you are doing it with an open action, but some novice might see you, fail to note that, and then where are we?

crebralfix
January 3, 2008, 07:16 PM
First time, be nice.

Second time, be strong.

Third time--@#$%^$#

frankie_the_yankee
January 3, 2008, 09:36 PM
It's not hard to get the point across in a polite and dignified way as several have suggested. That's what I try to do on the rare occassions when it might become necessary.

I have even heard some guys that OC or CC say that if they go down range once more and see a gun pointed down range with someone on or behind it they were gonna draw... Those are the type of people i refer to as sounding liek they are male reproductive organs

If anyone spoke to me that way I would immediately pack up and leave the range. I have no desire to share a range with anyone carrying that attitude around.

Some jerks think (in their curbstone lawyer dreams) that they could walk away with a self defense case if events unfolded as they imagining. More likely, they could end up dead or in prison.

Do these idiots think for one second that if they drew on someone in that situation, that the other person wouldn't be then legally justified in drawing on them and blowing them to Kingdom Come?

I go to gun ranges to get in some nice relaxing practice among friendly people. Any place where any kind of hot-headded fool like that hangs out is not the place for me.

OAKVILLE SHOOTER
January 3, 2008, 09:52 PM
Exactly why I shoot at home by my self, or with my son.

eagle45
January 3, 2008, 10:06 PM
I've seen the same thing at my local range, even with a RO present. I usually mention something like "Just a friendly reminder, the range rules prohibit handling weapons during the cease fire" or something similar. Almost always the reply will be something like "oh it's not loaded." It is truly amazing the number of people that cannot grasp that one simple safety rule.

I'm less friendly when I see unsafe handling when the range is hot, especially when muzzles are not pointed down range like they should be. I've only left one time though, that was when a man was letting his two sons, age about 9 and 12, shoot unsupervised. I went to the club house that day and complained about the RO.

I have to say I've seen that behavior on every range I've ever been to. If you are friendly about it and the offender is receptive to learning, you can educate a few in the process.

TCB in TN
January 3, 2008, 10:11 PM
Exactly why I shoot at home by my self, or with my son.

+1

I am lucky enough to have a couple of very good safe places to shoot on my families property. That way I have no one to complain about but myself and or my family.

dmazur
January 4, 2008, 04:00 AM
My local range has a rule that says someone has to be the unofficial range safety officer, even if its an informal group. So far, this seems to work fairly well. Someone calls "range cold" when the timing seems appropriate for setting targets, then "range hot" when everyone's back behind the firing line. Rules are clearly posted, including "Don't touch rifles when someone's down range". Only problem I ever saw was someone called "range hot" when there was still an individual at the 200 yd targets. The "crowd" was servicing targets at 100 yds and when they returned, this guy thought the range was clear. Fortunately, group safety prevailed and perhaps 4 people yelled "No! It's not clear! RANGE COLD RANGE COLD" before anyone even moved an inch toward the benches. I got a chuckle out of that. Glad to see safety in action.

bogie
January 4, 2008, 04:04 AM
Well, in organized benchrest competition, when the bolt comes out, you can do pretty much anything you want with your boomstick. When running a large match, setting up the benches occurs while the previous targets are being changed, so you get used to looking through your scope while you're aligning stuff, and suddenly having the target crew appear at the crosshairs... It's a matter of _common sense_ safety, not just zero-tolerance kneejerk rote stuff.

WinchesterAA
January 4, 2008, 04:17 AM
Screw it, dose of reality..

Do you trust me with a gun pointed at you and your kids?
Why do you think I would trust you? I plan to kill people who point guns at me, surely you understand what an awkward position you're putting me in.

dmazur
January 4, 2008, 04:37 AM
I haven't been to an organized match yet, but I can understand some flexibility if there is a qualified RSO and a field of experienced shooters. Bolt actions can have "bolts out" protocol. Garands have yellow safety flags.

The problem with informal shooting is just that -- it's informal. One time I had to explain the yellow safety flag in my Ruger .44 carbine, as the other shooter hadn't seen that and was looking for a removed bolt. Another time I had to explain the open action on a Ruger #1. Same thing, shooter unfamiliar with your rifle.

I was glad the other shooter was concerned about the status of my rifle, not annoyed.

+1 to being courteous and patient. Most people, if they stop to think, really don't want to be involved in a shooting accident. On either end of the process.

Koos Custodiet
January 4, 2008, 05:08 AM
I feel very unsafe if people I don't know are playing with their guns when I'm out there. So I fully agree with the bolt open, don't touch rule.

I have met up with guys who flip their lids if there's ammo in the magazine, even if the bolt is open and nobody's touching. Sure, it's another layer of safety, but so is leaving the gun at home...

Having said that, last time I was at the range I went forward, picked up targets, put them away, etc, while my buddies were shooting 20 meters away. BUT 1. I literally trust these guys with my life and 2. I know they can shoot :-)

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