270 or 308 or 30-06


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PITBULL
January 2, 2008, 03:14 PM
can some one give me a comparison chart or something?

270

30-06

308

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USSR
January 2, 2008, 03:21 PM
Go with the rifle that fits you best. None of those cartridges will kill deer any deader than the other ones will.

Don

tblt
January 2, 2008, 03:25 PM
I like the 270 flat shooting 130 grain bullet best for this cal.
second would be 06, if you need bullet weights of 150 or above.

gunman42782
January 2, 2008, 03:27 PM
Honestly, any of them will do just fine. I prefer .30 caliber, but that is just me, the .270 is a fine cartridge too. But the 30/06 and .308 and the .270 too will handle 99% of any job in North America.

JesseL
January 2, 2008, 03:28 PM
Is there a particular aspect you'd like compared? (trajectory, energy, momentum, recoil, cost, etc.)

Try playing around with the different loads here (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/choose_specific_loads.aspx?c1=30&c2=33&c3=17) and see what you think.

critter
January 2, 2008, 03:29 PM
.270 shoots A LITTLE flatter.
30-06 is A LITTLE better with when shooting heavy bullets.
.308 is A LITTLE better if you like short action guns.
Ain't a deer walking that can tell the difference! Pick what YOU like.

PITBULL
January 4, 2008, 10:10 AM
can yall tell me about the (savage 110 270)

taylorce1
January 4, 2008, 10:26 AM
I can tell you a little about Savage 110's but not the .270 in one. The savage 110 is a decent rifle that is amazingly accurate for the most part. The problem with most of them is the trigger which can be easily replaced with a after market one. They were not always the prettiest rifle in the contest as well but the are a good solid rifle that will serve you well hunting deer.

I like the .270 for hunting deer but I hunt some very open country where 3-400 yard shots are not uncommon. My .270 likes 130 grain bullets like they all pretty much do. I hand load mine to around 3100 fps as this is where I seem to get the best accuracy with the 130 grain bullets. My .270 is an old Parker Hale 1200 rifle and it is probably my favorite to hunt with. It shoots well enough that I will not choose my 7mm Rem Mag over it for hunting anything from pronghorn to elk. My .270 blends moderate recoil with a good trajectory and is accurate enough to keep my confidence high enough to take those long range shots when needed.

Really all of the rifles you are wanting to know about are pretty equal when it comes to shooting bullets needed for deer. I'd go look at a few and find the one that fits you the best regardless of the caliber. If it feels good in your hands and shoulders well for you, buy it and be happy. The deer will not tell the difference between calibers when you shoot it.

TCB in TN
January 4, 2008, 10:58 AM
I have owned and shot all three, and there is VERY little difference in them. Using standard size hunting rounds such as 130 gr in the .270 and 150 in the .308 and 30-06 you will find very little difference in either recoil or trajectory out to 250/300 yards.

Shooting any of the above out of the "same" 8lb rifle will give you a very similar amount of recoil


.270 win 130 gr bullet around 3100 fps about 16 1/2 ft/lbs of energy
30-06 150 gr bullet around 2900 fps about 17 1/2 ft/lbs of energy
.308 150 gr bullet around 2800 fps about 16 ft/lbs of energy

eliphalet
January 4, 2008, 11:14 AM
270 or 308 or 30-06

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

can some one give me a comparison chart or something?

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

trigger45
January 4, 2008, 05:35 PM
had all three like the .270 the best and its 130gr bullets. just my opinion.

B.D. Turner
January 4, 2008, 06:25 PM
Having taken deer with all three I can say go with any of them and you will not go wrong.

PITBULL
January 4, 2008, 07:18 PM
thanks for the replys yall, keep-em coming.

TCB in TN
January 4, 2008, 07:29 PM
Having taken deer with all three I can say go with any of them and you will not go wrong.

I have had the same experience. The best shooting rifle I have ever owned was a Ruger M77 in .270, but have owned several others that were extremely close the old Browning A bolt 30-06 was a VERY close second, several very good Rem 700's in 30-06, and I have a nice Browning BLR .308 that I just LOVE. Really if deer hunting is your only concern then pull one out of a hat, and enjoy. (Unless you can just find a better deal on a rifle in one of the three cals.) Now if you are going to get into other things such as Long distance target shooting (1000 yards etc) then the .308 or 30-06 will likely be a better choice as you will find a wider range of suitable bullets in the 30 cal than for the .270. Also if you are worried about TSHTF scenerios or just fun plinking, then you need to look seriously at the 30-06 as surplus ammo is still available for decent price.

MCgunner
January 4, 2008, 07:36 PM
All great calibers, but I like short action carbines for their handling and light weight in the field. The .308 is the only short action choice. There are other choices, of course, but none of 'em are any better than .308 IMHO until you get to big bears and big short magnums. For deer and hogs, my .308 is about tops.

Shawnee
January 4, 2008, 08:15 PM
Hi Pitbull...

Will add something to MCGunner's comment about the .308 being a "short-action" caliber. I apologize if you already know this.
The term "short-action" refers to the rifle receiver being slightly shorter - which means the rings that hold the scope can be closer together - which means the scope usually has more room to be moved forward/backward in order to give the shooter good eye relief (the ability to see a full field of vision in the scope. This allows a wider choices of scope types.
The scope-mounting difference may, or may not, be important to you. If you are sort of the beefy, football player build you may appreciate that extra advantage of the short-action calibers. If you are more the lean, mean runnin' machine type it may not make any difference to you.

Good deer calibers based on the .308 case - for example the .243 Win., the 260 Rem. and the 7mm/08 - are the "short-action" types, and all of those are very good for deer.
Calibers based on longer cases (usually the 30/06) are "long-action" calibers. These would include the 25/06, 270 Win., and 280 Rem. which are also more than powerful enough and accurate enough for deer hunting.

Here is a very interesting little piece about the .260 Rem. telling how and why it was developed.

The .260 Remington was introduced in 1997 by Remington as a commercialized wildcat made popular by Jim Carmichael of Outdoor Life. His concept for this round came into being after he had a flinching problem at the 1995 National Match Course at Camp Perry. He wanted a superbly accurate round that offered less recoil and wind deflection than the .308 Win. he was using. He developed 2 rounds. One, based on the .250 Savage case, he called the .260 Bobcat. The other, a .308 case necked down the 6.5mm (.263 in.) he called the 6.5 Panther. He used the Panther at the 1996 Matches with incredible results (1.5 inch groups at 500 yards). Remington took interest in it and released it in 1997 as the .260 Reminton. The factory load for a 140 grn. bullet is 2750 fps from a 24" barrel. But don't let that moderate speed fool you. Because the long 6.5 mm bullet holds it's energy well, it catches up to the faster .270 Win. and .308 Win. by time you reach the 200 yard line. What is it good for? It's ballistic grandfather, the 6.5x55 Mauser has killed all sorts of critters. It was used extensivly by turn of the century hunters on African Elephants. With it's superb sectional density (.289) it penetrates better than all but the heaviest .30 caliber and larger bullets. I feel it fills the same niche as the .270: a superb long range, medium power rifle. The biggest advantage of the .260? It offers performance better than the .270 with the recoil of a .243. Use it for deer, elk or anything.


HTH :cool:

Mr White
January 4, 2008, 08:25 PM
I saw some deer at the check station a few weeks ago and the ones shot with the .270s looked a whole lot deader. But that could have just been my bias toward my .270.

Shawnee
January 4, 2008, 08:34 PM
"...the ones shot with the .270s looked a whole lot deader."


ROTFLMAO !! :D


Deadest one I ever saw was shot with a Dell 30/06 at 1199 yds - no scope too ! :what:


;):D

eliphalet
January 4, 2008, 09:07 PM
Running a action when hunting, long or short?

The difference is negligible to say the least. You'll never know the difference, or I should say I don't.
I have/had several in long 30-06, 270, 7 mag, and others, and short in 308, 243, 7mm-08 and more.

When I have one shot in a critter and am running the action to have another handy if needed, never in dozens and dozens of kills have I ever noticed any difference of any kind between action lengths. The action is ran, another shell loaded, and I am ready if need be. It happens automatically, I am unconscious of it, like pushing in the clutch to shift your car, it just happens, and a frcation of an inch one way or the other ain't gonna matter.

As far as mounting a scope extended rings will cure the small amount of difference between the two so your scope can be mounted as you like for eye relief.

All three are good calibers.

Shawnee
January 4, 2008, 09:31 PM
"extended rings will cure the small amount of difference"...

...at no small extra expense, of course. :cool:

eliphalet
January 4, 2008, 09:42 PM
...at no small extra expense, of course.I don't think so but why doncha run on over to Midway's web site and take a looksee and let us all know. But Golllieeee what if it is a buck or two when a fella's buying a several hundred dollar rifle and probably hundreds on glass?

Edit:
I looked, shouldn't have wasted my time, I already knew it was very close. Leupolds extended is $7 more than standard, ouch huh?

Elgin47
January 4, 2008, 09:50 PM
Not quite this simple, but not a whole lot different than comparing Dodge/Chevy/Ford -

With these three options it's all about location, location, location - as in bullet placement - because terminal ballistics aren't a whole lot different between and among all three.

That said, I prefer .30 bullets for larger, tough-skinned animals like elk - but I've shot a lot of elk with a .270, and a well-placed .270 will be more effective (and humane) than an elk gut-shot with a 30-06.

How's that for equivocating?

Shawnee
January 4, 2008, 10:46 PM
"Leupolds extended is $7 more than standard, ouch huh?"


And if the OP buys a rifle like a Ruger that comes with good rings already - Or if he finds a good deal on a used rifle with a scope already mounted - do you think it's somehow cheap for him to throw them away and go buy new ones, hunh ?

Stunning Logic, that. :rolleyes:

Omnivore
January 4, 2008, 10:54 PM
.270, .308, or .30-06?

Yes, please. Thank you.

Oh, there's another good one in between the first two-- the 7 mm Remington Express, A.K.A. the .280 Remington. Excellent bullet choice in the 7 mms these days as well. Berger 7 mm VLD bullets have the best B.C. in the business, until you get into the big bore, heavy bullets. This matters not a whit to the deer, either, however.

My son has taken several deer with his .280 and so far, not one of them has had a single complaint regarding the ballistics. He also uses that Ruger M77 MkII in .280 for 400-500 yard target shooting. Same VLD load for hunting and target shooting makes it easy to keep track of the scope settings, but it puts a fist-sized exit hole in the deer.

akodo
January 5, 2008, 11:03 AM
a few more logs to throw on the fire.

Does short action matter to you? If a short action is important, if you like the idea of having to pull the bolt back 1/2 inch less theirfor making it a tiny bit faster, and the overall length of the gun a little less, then of the three 308 is the answer (and then we got to talk about 7mm-08)

If not, cross 308 off your list. 30-06 covers EVERYTHING the 308 does, and then does some more.

So now we get to 270 vs 30-06. This is pitting Elmer Keith vs Jack O'Conner. It is Coke vs Pepsi, Blondes vs Redheads, Black Lingerie vs Red Lingerie...wow, I better stop before I get myself too excited....

<whew>

Okay, as everyone said, .270 or .30-06 will do you just fine. They are nearly identical. Truth is, in ability they overlap greatly, but not completely.

30-06 is a little bit better with the heaviest loads. This means the 30-06 is a little bit better for elk and moose, (and grizzly I suppose, but that is stretching it).

.270 is a little bit better as far as fast flat shooting. This means the .270 is going to be a little bit better for pronghorn, big horn sheep, (and coyote too but that is kinda streching it)

The 30-06 has probably got more margin for a handloader to ring out enhanced performance, and truely there are more variety of 30 cal bullets to set on top of it than any other diameter in the world.

but on the other hand .270s recoil a bit less, making it easier to shoot accurately.

So, on your den wall, aside from deer what looks better, more exotic, which would you be a bit more proud of, a Moosehead or a Bighorn Sheep?

If you said moose, go 30-06, it will cover you for a lifetime for whitetail, muledeer, and elk, and still work for that one hunt you eventually set up to go after moose. If you said Bighorn sheep, get the 270, it will cover you for a lifetime for whitetail, muledeer, and elk, and still work for that one hunt you will eventually set up to go after Bighorn Sheep






Also, I have heard it said that the 270 has got a reputation for accuracy, so manufacturers always pay a bit more attention to 270 rifles than they do to their similar breatheren, as they know they will be scrutinized, and any defects will be blamed on the gun, not on 'inherently less accurate round you got in their buddy' That story could well be bunk, but I'll share it.

taylorce1
January 5, 2008, 11:19 AM
So now we get to 270 vs 30-06. This is pitting Elmer Keith vs Jack O'Conner. It is Coke vs Pepsi, Blondes vs Redheads, Black Lingerie vs Red Lingerie...wow, I better stop before I get myself too excited....
This ones easy Coke, Red heads, Black lingerie, thats what I prefer, but I won't turn down any of the above. I still prefer my Red Heads in/or out of Black lingerie before the Coke.

Sorry couldn't resist.:D:D:D

ronwill
January 5, 2008, 11:32 AM
270 or 308 or 30-06

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

can some one give me a comparison chart or something?

270

30-06

308

Maybe the following can help:

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

http://www.browning.com/products/features/detail.asp?ID=5

http://www.gamecalls.net/table.html

jpwilly
January 5, 2008, 11:32 AM
Coke, Blondes, and Black Lingerie and it's the 30-06 for me!
30-06 Does everything the other two do + room to play! Cheap surplus is availabe for plinking too! Get a Garand and take the twins out...etc

dogbaloo
January 5, 2008, 11:35 AM
7.55 swiss.

Just being a smartass...they're still fun and cheap guns too.

Regolith
January 5, 2008, 01:28 PM
I voted for the .308, mostly because I prefer the .280 Rem over the .270 Win, and a .308 is a short action cartridge was the .30-06 isn't.

They will all work spectacularly well on deer.

It should be noted, though, that the .30-06 has more selection when it comes to range of bullet weights (it can handle heavier bullets better than the .308, as it has more room in the case for them). Which means its probably better than the .308 if you might in the future want to hunt larger game animals with it, such as elk or moose.

Firepower!
January 6, 2008, 11:21 AM
270 is no comparison. The choise is really between 30-06 and 308. AND I must say 308, even though if the choise of gun is in bolt actions I might not even vote couse I like the both about the same. 270 is a weaker caliber and not to be compared with these...not to say that it not good.

MCgunner
January 6, 2008, 12:00 PM
270 is a weaker caliber and not to be compared with these..

How is the .270 weaker? It fires a slightly smaller bullet to a higher velocity. Energy is pretty close and nothing a .308 can kill, a .270 can't and just as dead and maybe a little farther out. I don't own a .270, I'm just sayin'.

Check out the ballistics charts, the .270 produces the same energy levels as the other two or real danged close. To me, it's just what you want in the GUN, not the caliber. I prefer my short action bolt gun in .308 for hunting in all situations from heavy brush to mountain canyons. It's a nice platform. I'm not that hung up on the caliber, have killed deer with other calibers, even magnum pistol rounds.


It should be noted, though, that the .30-06 has more selection when it comes to range of bullet weights (it can handle heavier bullets better than the .308,

That don't matter to me. If I want to shoot something big and tough, I can use a lighter Barnes bullet to do the job better than a .30-06 shooting a heavy conventional bullet, or just as well, anyway. Toughest animal I take on is hogs and a 140 Barnes is real lethal on a hog at 2850 fps.

Firepower!
January 6, 2008, 03:12 PM
No. its not true

Shawnee
January 6, 2008, 03:34 PM
The "wide variety of bullets/loads" claim so often made for the 30/06 is true - but only if you are one of the small minority of American hunters who reloads.

If you are one of the millions who depend on buying your ammo at a store - and usually look for the lower prices - you'll quickly learn that when you go to the store the "variety" of 30/06 loads is no more wide than most other calibers. Usually you'll be very lucky to find four different bullet weights/style and don't be surprised if you find three or less. At some gun shops or mail order houses you'll find more but you're gonna pay for 'em, fersure.

:cool:

eliphalet
January 6, 2008, 03:46 PM
The "wide variety of bullets/loads" claim so often made for the 30/06 is true Yup,

Remington loads six factory manunfactured bullet weights, seven if you want to count the 55 grain accelerator's, with a verity of bullets factory loaded for the good ol '06, five different weights for the 308, and a whopping two bullet weights each for the 260 or 7MM-08.

Now if your a non reloader what is a better choice if you want/need a variety of loadings?

MCgunner
January 6, 2008, 03:51 PM
No. its not true

It's NOT true that .270 is any weaker than .308 or .30-06. It will kill anything they will and it shoots a little flatter. It's got the same energy and carries it out to good range. The 06 has a little theoretical edge in that it can shoot the heavies, but then, modern controlled expansion bullets help even the playing field there.

I do reload and think anyone that doesn't is missing out on building the best ammo for their rifle at below bargain shelf ammo prices. But, I've been reloading since I was a kid, picked it up from my grandpa and uncle. I guess I'm in the "small minority", but most of my shooting friends around here reload and many of 'em are serious about it.

From the book "Extended Ballistics for the Advanced Rifleman" by Art Blatt, the .270 150 grain Federal hi shok soft point load produces 2850 fps/2705 ft lbs. It would probably be close to the 165 grain .30 cal bullets in sectional density, though I don't have those numbers in front of me. Compare to the .308, 150 grain hi shok soft point federal load at 2820 fps/2650 ft lbs or the very same bullet in Federal's .30-06 loading listed at 2910 fps, 2820 ft lbs. Tell me, do YOU see any significant difference in these numbers? All three are near identical and will kill the same game and the same ranges, maybe a little more holdover for the .30 cals with that bullet.

On the "bullet variety" thing, any gun is going to be best with a certain bullet weight. It is my understanding that accelerators are pretty inaccurate in most guns due to inadequate twist. The 220s in .30-06 would probably be a bit iffy, too. They'll shoot 130-200 grain weight or somewhere in there the best most times. If you wanna move up in bullet weight, best to move up to the .35 Whelen or get a caliber with a belt that exceeds .30.

TCB in TN
January 6, 2008, 06:16 PM
The 06 has a little theoretical edge in that it can shoot the heavies, but then, modern controlled expansion bullets help even the playing field there.

Not theoretical, a real life, that has been and will continue to be used edge. Now modern bullet construction does help to make lighter bullet perform better than in days past, but that same construction holds true for the heavier bullets constructed today as well.

And for those individuals who do not reload the 06 is an option so that they can get milsurp ammo to be able to shoot at much reduced cost.

Now I have said it time and time again the three guns are almost identical in performance, recoil, trajectory, etc. For most folks they are so close as to be identical, or at least so close most folks wouldn't know the difference if shooting them blind folded, or w/o looking at the cartridge or barrel markings. So unless you are going to do a LOT of shooting, want to stock up with cheap ammo, go into competitive shooting or some other activity other than hunting a few whitetail every year, then pull the number out of the hat, look for the best deal on the gun you want and buy one.

MCgunner
January 6, 2008, 06:53 PM
First off, the .30-06 has to stabilize a heavy bullet, it might, it might not. Second, my .308 will kill anything your .30-06 can kill and just as dead. There are loads of controlled expansion bullets for it and it works real well up to 180 grains. That's why I say "theoretical". In practice, there ain't nothin' the 06 can do the .308 can't. If you need heavier, you really need a magnum. So, I don't really consider the .30-06 in any way ballistically superior enough to the .308 to choose it over the short action, handier hunting rifle. and, a 170 grain .270 bullet will do anything a 200 grain .30 cal bullet will do at the same energy levels (better SD per given bullet weight). If I need more caliber than .30-06, I can get the same action length rifle in .338 Winchester Magnum. Then, I can take on those big Alaskan bears a little more securely. But, since I don't ever plan to hunt Alaska, I have all I really need in the .308. All three of these rounds will take anything in the lower 48. Ballistically, you can't really tell the difference and any difference is strictly superfluous and on paper.

TCB in TN
January 6, 2008, 07:19 PM
First off, the .30-06 has to stabilize a heavy bullet, it might, it might not.

While I have not shot heavy bullets a lot in the last few years, I grew up with the bigger is better mentality, and ran a lot of 220gr bullets through my old 30-06's over the years. Everything from my ole 1903 to my Ruger M77's, and Remmy 700's. Back in those days I considered 2 MOA to be acceptable accuracy and was usually able to achieve it out to 200yards, which was pretty much the longest shot I felt like I would have or take back then.



Second, my .308 will kill anything your .30-06 can kill and just as dead.

I agree and that is why I said that all are for the average person, wanting to hunt white tail, identical. BTW I currently shoot a Browning BLR in .308, I happen to love both the gun and the cal.

There are loads of controlled expansion bullets for it and it works real well up to 180 grains. That's why I say "theoretical". In practice, there ain't nothin' the 06 can do the .308 can't. If you need heavier, you really need a magnum.


As someone who has killed big hogs with the .243, .270, and 30-06 I can honestly say that I have seen a difference in impact with bigger heavier bullets up close and personal. The 220's in the 06 can and has made a difference on some big hogs before.

So, I don't really consider the .30-06 in any way ballistically superior enough to the .308 to choose it over the short action, handier hunting rifle. and, a 170 grain .270 bullet will do anything a 200 grain .30 cal bullet will do at the same energy levels (better SD).

I personally don't consider it ballistically superior enough either, but I don't consider the short action of the .308 in a bolt gun to be enough of an advantage either.

If I need more caliber than .30-06, I can get the same action length rifle in .338 Winchester Magnum. Then, I can take on those big Alaskan bears a little more securely. But, since I don't ever plan to hunt Alaska, I have all I really need in the .308. All three of these rounds will take anything in the lower 48. Ballistically, you can't really tell the difference and any difference is strictly superfluous and on paper.

I agree that the average hunter/shooter will not be able to tell the difference. The only real advantages come for those who get VERY serious about their shooting, and even then the trade offs are marginal, except for the milsurp ammo market.

MCgunner
January 6, 2008, 08:10 PM
I personally don't consider it ballistically superior enough either, but I don't consider the short action of the .308 in a bolt gun to be enough of an advantage either.

I guess that's the one place I part ways. When I was younger, I didn't have a problem totin' a 9 lb long action 7 mag 10 miles a day in rough country spotting and stalking. Now days, it's enough I gotta tote my fat butt, let alone a heavy gun, LOL. Too, a shorter carbine is REAL handy in a stand or box blind, easy to keep from bumping stuff, get into action. I just prefer the rifle to a bigger gun and the thing shoots 3/4 to 1 MOA groups as far out as 400 yards. Not like I'm missing out on much accuracy with the soda straw barrel. :D

Really, when I decided I wanted this gun, I was gun shopping, not caliber shopping. I'd have been happy as a clam with a 7-08. .260 wasn't available, yet, but I think I'd preferred to wait on a .308 rather than get a .260. I have a short action .257 Roberts that's close enough to .260. For deer and hog, ANY of 'em is plenty, though. But, the .308 splits the difference between 7 mag and .257 in my little collection of hunting rifles.

Buddy of mine has a BLR in .308, has hunted with it since the mid 70s. Great gun! The BLR can be had in .325 WSM now. I've been reading about that one, friggin' cannon, LOL! If I walked and fished and hunted Alaska a lot, I might really want one of those things. I mean, a stainless Marlin guide gun in .45-70 would be pretty awesome and rugged up there, but that Browning is a sweet lever gun and that caliber pushes some big bullets to 4000 ft lbs. Pretty impressive. But, alas, I live in Texas, LOL! I've only seen griz in the zoo.

ReadyontheRight
January 6, 2008, 08:21 PM
It's hard to define much of a difference between them. I like 30-06 and .308 just because you can buy cheap military surplus ammo for practice shooting and stockpiling for zombie attacks.:)

Shawnee
January 6, 2008, 08:36 PM
Hi Eli...


You write... "Remington loads six factory manunfactured bullet weights, seven if you want to count the 55 grain accelerator's, with a verity of bullets factory loaded for the good ol '06, five different weights for the 308, and a whopping two bullet weights each for the 260 or 7MM-08.

Now if your a non reloader what is a better choice if you want/need a variety of loadings?"

* It doesn't matter how many loads for the 30/06 are loaded by the factories. What matters is how many of those loads are stocked by the stores where the non-reloader goes to buy ammo Shooters don't buy ammo from the factories, - and as noted before - the stores don't stock but 2 or 3 different loads, rarely 4.

* And even if the store stocked four loadings for the '06 and two for the 7/08 and one for the 260 - it still doesn't matter one bit because ANY of the '06 loads and EITHER of the 7/08 loads And the .260 load will ALL drop an Elk or Deer or Hog or Bear in its' tracks.
Dead is Dead.

Reality is: the sacred "versatility" of the '06 is nothing but an absolutely meaningless "Huzzah" from people who cling to the outdated old 30/'06 for the sake of their tradition and feel threatened by anyone who doesn't worship at their shrine.

:cool:

MCgunner
January 6, 2008, 08:40 PM
It's hard to define much of a difference between them. I like 30-06 and .308 just because you can buy cheap military surplus ammo for practice shooting and stockpiling for zombie attacks.

When I got my .308, I bought 100 rounds of surplus brass from Midway for what 20 rounds of commercial cost. Last time I checked, they didn't show any mil surp brass. I'm wondering if the war is drying up supplies somehow? Looks like to ME, mil surp brass should be as available as ever, but I really don't understand that market much. I wanna score some in the future, though. I'll be attending gun shows and such, might find some at a gun show and it's cheaper than buying a gun. :D I mean, you go to a gun show, ya gotta buy SOMEthing! :D I've gotten REAL in love with reloading .308. I just whip 'em out with a volume measure for the powder, don't bother sorting brass or bullets, don't worry about milsurp brass. Yet, I get sub MOA out of it. Amazing.

outdated old 30/'06

Outdated???? I'm just gonna sit back and watch this one. :D

TCB in TN
January 6, 2008, 09:06 PM
Reality is: the sacred "versatility" of the '06 is nothing but an absolutely meaningless "Huzzah" from people who cling to the outdated old 30/'06 for the sake of their tradition and feel threatened by anyone who doesn't worship at their shrine.

And this comes from the person who says that the .270 has significantly less recoil, and significantly better performance than the 30-06! :rolleyes:

Some folks just never let anything like the facts/reality get in the way of a good story.

The truth is that most folks on here realize that the three cals are pretty much interchangeable, for most applications!

eliphalet
January 6, 2008, 10:21 PM
What's wrong with "tradition" and why is a 06 "outdated"?
Something doesn't become numero uno, be the standard nearly all are compared to, and stay there for decades on end for no reason.


I kinda like outdated stuff. My land Cruiser is a '65 model, my motorcycle is the "Heritage" model, last elk I killed was with a black powder muzzle loader. What did you shoot your last elk with?
Always kinda wanted a 45-70 and after reading some of whats been written here lately I am just dieing to get my hands on one, probably a single shot too. Some new super short mega mag doesn't interest me in the least, not that it isn't a great round either.

Most of my firearms are "outdated" levers, and bolt rifles or single action hand guns. Owned newer stuff, still have some and some is great, it's just for the most part not my thing. I like blue steel and walnut, not the new products guns are being made with today. Not debating which is best either, best to me isn't best to others.

So lets not let any facts or things get in the way, lets go forward and do our own thing, let me live in the past with facts, and you can have your dreams too, but when a fella is here searching for answers it kinda nice to give him facts and let him decide, not feed em distorted partial truths.

OBTW, shrines, threatened? gezzz

George Hill
January 6, 2008, 11:33 PM
Let's look at some figures here and sort this out:
Muzzle, 100 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards, 400 yards, 500 yards. Velocity/Energy
.270 Winchester 130 grain interbond:
3060/2702 2851/2345 2651/2028 2460/1746 2277/1496 2101/1275
.308 150 grain:
2820/2648 2560/2183 2315/1785 2084/1446 1866/1159 1664/922
.30-06 150 interbond:
2910/2820 2686/2403 2473/2037 2270/1716 2077/1436 1893/1193
These are of course all light for caliber loads... bullets you might use for Speed Goats or other plains game. I've used all three in the last few months, and all are accurate.
Just for fun, here's the .270 in 150 grain, which is heavy for the caliber but the same weight as the .30 cal loads:
2840/2686 2642/2324 2452/2002 2270/1716 2095/1462 1929/1239
This isn't quite fair because the .270 load at that weight is longer than the .30's and have a better ballistic coefficient. But that's not my point. You see that in every case, the .308 is handicapped with serious velocity and energy discount from the bigger cased cartridges.
I know the .308 is hugely popular, but I don't understand why. I see reasons for this... such as servicemen who compare it to the .223 and see it as a big jump. Because it is from the varmint round. But when you compare it to other calibers used by hunters to kill big game at large range, well, it falls short. The .308 is just completely average. It gets a "C" grade. If you want a serious .30, then get a .300 Win Mag. But that's neither here nor there.
If you base popularity based on gross ammunition sales, it breaks down like this:
1. .30-06 Springfield
2. .270 Winchester
3. .30-30
4. .243 Winchester
5. .308
7MM Rem Mag comes in at a very close #6.... Anyways. I find it very interesting that the .30-30 trumps the .308 in sales volume... but it does so at a pretty good margin. Now when it comes to actual effectiveness in the field, what these cartridges can do in the hands of a skilled hunter, I really don't see much of a difference between them. I've killed an elk at 200 yards with my short 16" .30-30, and it slayed it dead right there. I've also seen the .30-06 fail at the same range.
The effectiveness if you are going to come down to brass tacks is all about the bullet and not the container that holds the powder charge.... and where you vector that bullet through the target critter. That vector has to intersect vitals. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter what you shoot.

MCgunner
January 7, 2008, 12:15 PM
You see that in every case, the .308 is handicapped with serious velocity and energy discount from the bigger cased cartridges.
I know the .308 is hugely popular, but I don't understand why.

7MM Rem Mag comes in at a very close #6.... Anyways. I find it very interesting that the .30-30 trumps the .308 in sales volume... but it does so at a pretty good margin. Now when it comes to actual effectiveness in the field, what these cartridges can do in the hands of a skilled hunter, I really don't see much of a difference between them. I've killed an elk at 200 yards with my short 16" .30-30, and it slayed it dead right there. I've also seen the .30-06 fail at the same range.
The effectiveness if you are going to come down to brass tacks is all about the bullet and not the container that holds the powder charge.... and where you vector that bullet through the target critter. That vector has to intersect vitals. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter what you shoot.



2800 fps from a 150 grain bullet is plenty to 400 yards on deer and 300 yards on elk. My own Barnes 140 load (a bullet that will outperform about anything else and performs more like a 180 standard lead bullet) starts out a 2822 fps. Calculated with a BC of .398, it retains 2188 fps/1487 ft lbs at 300 yards, 1996 fps/1239 ft lbs at 400 yards. That's about as far as I'd contemplate shooting at game with any caliber and good enough for the game I hunt and elk which I've never hunted. I do have a 7 mag, but if I ever get to hunt elk in New Mexico, I'm probably going to want my light weight short action gun for those mountains. It's plenty enough and there ain't a thing a naught six or .270 can kill that I can't kill with the .308 right out to 400 yards.

Now, as far as the .30-30 goes, it's popular because LOTS AND LOTS of hunters can't shoot past 150 anyway. Many think 100 yards is a long shot. Many hunt in areas where they never see a whitetail past 50. The .30-30 will kill any deer just as dead at 100 yards as a .308. I like the versatility of the .308, though, since I have hunted and will hunt in the future out west in West Texas and New Mexico. Hopefully, I'll get to go after something bigger than a mulie some day. :D You can HUNT elk with a .30-30, but despite the popularity of the cartridge/gun, it's not really popular in the hands of elk hunters for a reason. Also, the lever guns the round is chambered in sell the round far more than do ballistics. I submit that my little stainless Remington M7 is just as handy in a stand, still hunting, or spot and stalking in the mountains and desert as any .30-30 with a scope on it. It has a 20" barrel, is 6.5 lbs sans scope, and shoots sub MOA to 300 yards and more. That's why I like the .308, the gun I have chambered for it. If I had to tote a heavy long action gun romping around the rough country anyway, I'd just take my 7 mag. Why bother with a .270 or .30-06 unless you're scared of the recoil. You scared? I've fired 40 rounds off the bench before with the 7 and it never really hurt me. I ain't scared. I've fired a LOT worse!

K3
January 7, 2008, 01:48 PM
I may be piling on here, but I love when people say a caliber/cartridge is outdated. Above, a poster referred to the .30-06 as outdated. :rolleyes:

Does it no longer kill deer or elk? Is it incapable of MOA accuracy at hunting ranges with good loads?

Evidently marketing people are very good at what they do to convince people that cartridges that have worked for a century are outdated. Is the .45-70 outdated? It's increasing in popularity again. Is 405gr leaving the muzzle at 1400fps or higher depending on the platform not going to kill a deer at 100 yards?

Shawnee
January 7, 2008, 01:57 PM
"...numero uno, be the standard nearly all are compared to, and stay there for decades on end "


Not ! A few million smart people simply don't sing from that old Hymnal.


Hi George...

I think the "popularity" of the 30/30 is in large part because for decades the lever-action 30/30s and their ammo were signifciantly cheaper than most bolt guns and ammo for more modern calibers. They still are but, I think, to somewhat lesser degree. Also, they have long been packaged with scopes as "Specials" at Wallyworld etc. in many areas.

If you're in S. Texas (and many other places) a couple weekends before deer season opens the stores will all be running "sales specials" on lever-action 30/30s and you'll see trainloads of people show up at the puiblic shooting ranges with such guns.

When the rifle costs 70% (or less) of anything else in the store and ditto for the ammo it turns a LOT of "first-time" or "casual" hunters into 30/30 owners.

Hi K3...

"Does it no longer kill deer or elk?"

Of course the 30/06 will still kill Deer and Elk. I didn't say it wouldn't. But so will a 50-caliber machine gun, and a bulldozer, and an F-16 loaded with Napalm. Do you recommend using those ?

The 30/06 is outdated (IMNSHO) because there are many calibers that will cleanly harvest all those same Deer and Elk and yet be much more user-friendly (less blast and recoil, and sometimes less expense) than the 30/06. Since a more user-friendly weapon equates to a rifle more shooters can handle well, and better - such weapons are better than bigger, less-user-friendly calibers.

If someone wants to use a 30/06 (or an F-16 loaded with Napalm) - Fine. But all this narrow-minded knuckleheaded "advice" about how everyone "needs" a 30/06 and it is so much better than anything else blah, blah, blah is absolute, unadulterated, 24k, antiquated, hilarious military-macho horse mustard.

:cool:

TCB in TN
January 7, 2008, 05:14 PM
The 30/06 is outdated (IMNSHO) because there are many calibers that will cleanly harvest all those same Deer and Elk and yet be much more user-friendly (less blast and recoil, and sometimes less expense) than the 30/06.


If someone wants to use a 30/06 (or an F-16 loaded with Napalm) - Fine. But all this narrow-minded knuckleheaded "advice" about how everyone "needs" a 30/06 and it is so much better than anything else blah, blah, blah is absolute, unadulterated, 24k, antiquated, hilarious military-macho horse mustard.

You keep popping off with this junk about how the 30-06 has such an increased amount of recoil and blast than the .270, but I have even ran the numbers out of the same gun, (and if you don't like my numbers look them up or run them yourself) using the 130 and 150 gr bullets respectively that show the .270win .308, and 30-06 all between 16 and 17 1/2 ftlbs of recoil. The .308 came in at 16, the .270 win came in at 16 1/2 and the 30-06 came in at 17 1/2 (a whopping 5 1/5% increase over the .270 while the .270 is actually greater than the .308 by 3.1% while the .308 comes in a nice quick handling short action).

As for the the blast, well you are going to have to show me, I know several folks that still shoot both (as I have) that say, that they can't tell the diff in the amount of noise. I personally have owned and shot both (out of the same platform) and cannot tell the difference. I personally LOVE the .270, it the .308 and the 30-06 are great cals that can pretty much do anything you want to out in the REAL world. But when folks talk about

narrow-minded knuckleheaded "advice"

you need to put down some actual facts to back up your smack talk! :neener:

MCgunner
January 7, 2008, 05:47 PM
The .270 is, what, 60 years old? I guess it's outdated. You do have to have several subscript letters after the caliber now days to be up to date, you know, like RUM or WSM or GSXR or YZF or something.

Jeffreii
January 8, 2008, 12:38 AM
My simple outcome would be this
270 flattest
308 most accurate
30-'06 hardest hitting

note: some twist rates in 30-'06 are not optimized for the heavier bullets so even though 110-220 is available, not necessarily going to shoot the best with all of them. 308 case most efficient design of all of them (translates into most accurate)

eliphalet
January 8, 2008, 01:09 AM
The .270 is, what, 60 years old?Oldernat, developed in 1923, unveiled in 1925 in the Winchester model 54.
.
That's over 90 years ago the '06 over 100, the 375 H&H, and others about the same.

Not up on the time frame of the smaller varmint size calibers in 22 or so, or when the larger what is referred to as African rounds came along in modern smokeless powders, but I would say nothing that really truly works significantly better has came down the pike since. It may be a bit faster or a little more efficient but not by enough to get real excited about. For sure not to the extent we have been lead to believe.

George Hill
January 8, 2008, 02:01 AM
You guys saying the .30-30 is popular because of all the sales of ammo to feed old rifles.... your wrong. I sell lots of new Marlin .30-30 rifles. Stainless ones, blued ones, walnut ones, laminated ones. .30-30 is popular because it's easy to shoot well with.
The .308 being most accurate... or more accurate than the other cartridges in the topic. Hate to burst your bubble there too. You think that, then you've not shot a good .270 with good ammo. Shockingly accurate.
And as far as the .30-06 accuracy... come on. We've got guys out here shooting Prarie Dogs at 400 yards with their old .30-06 rifles with light loads. The P-Dog is a small critter. About the same size as a grey squirrel. They are the same color as rocks out there and can be sometimes hard to see. So when you go for a P-Dog head shot, you are shooting at a target roughly the size of a large hard boiled egg. At 400 yards.
At the same time, I've seen .308 rifles that were lucky to shoot inside 2 inches at 100 yards.
.308 gets the rep for accuracy because quite often those .308 rifles out there are getting dressed up to the Nth degree with tactical stocks and scopes and your lucky to get that sort of set up for less than 2 grand.
Quite often those .270 and .30-06 hunting rifles are staight off the shelf with a 200 dollar scope.... and you are going to base your cartridge assessment on that. You match dollar on dollar, and put the same effort to find the right load for that .270, it's going to shoot every bit as accurately if not more so at longer range than the .308 which is drastically average yet is more over rated than Chuck Norris.

Jeffreii
January 8, 2008, 03:01 AM
George Hill...The 30-'06 is a very accurate cartridge, but please show me a one that will do <2" groups at 600 yards like the 40 shot groups at NRA matches that were done by 308's. The best '06 would need that target at 200 yards. That is 2-3 times more accurate! The lower-class guys using 308's were beating the high-class ones with 30-'06's. The 308 is what caused the 1000 yard tie breaking V ring to have a scale reduction of 50%. This was both used before by the best-of-the-best setups in both '06's and 308's; Obviously there can be a lesser gun of either be out done, but then that would be due to the rifle not the cartridge.

The 30-06 is, however, less finicky with powders - most efficient than any other cartridge in that regard.

Anyhow, not trying to start up a thread topic change - all three are very good cartridges and the accuracy benefits between the three would probably be less than noticeable with average shooters using sporter type guns - and most importantly - the deer sure aren't going to be able to tell the difference.

K3
January 8, 2008, 07:23 AM
You match dollar on dollar, and put the same effort to find the right load for that .270, it's going to shoot every bit as accurately if not more so at longer range than the .308 which is drastically average yet is more over rated than Chuck Norris.

Uh-oh. Now you've gone and done it. :what:

Shawnee
January 8, 2008, 11:52 AM
Come now, TCB...

Your numbers are lovely things indeed, and I recommend them to one and all, especially to those who shoot most of their deer with numbers. But to try to smite me with the feeble accusation that I present no fact - when I clearly said that guns/calibers that blast and kick less are much easier for more people to shoot more comfortably and more effectively - and that is, in fact, Suh, -FACT - as anyone who has patiently observed thousands of shooters as have I can vouchsafe.... well you make my heart heavy with such castigations.

And then you accuse me of "smack" and protest my labeling narrowminded knuckleheadery for exactly what it is when your protest follow close on the heels of a post from one of the '06 priests who writes such horse mustard as...

"And as far as the .30-06 accuracy... come on. We've got guys out here shooting Prarie Dogs at 400 yards with their old .30-06 rifles with light loads. The P-Dog is a small critter. About the same size as a grey squirrel. They are the same color as rocks out there and can be sometimes hard to see. So when you go for a P-Dog head shot, you are shooting at a target roughly the size of a large hard boiled egg. At 400 yards. ....Quite often those .270 and .30-06 hunting rifles are staight off the shelf with a 200 dollar scope."

You are certainly entitled to believe that hordes of people with 30/06s while away the happy, windswept Western hours making head shots on camoflaged prairie dogs at 400 yds. (NOT 390yds., mind you!) with their old, off-the-rack '06's under cheap scopes - if you so choose.

But I assure you, Suh, my labeling such pro-30/'06 braggadoccio as Simon-pure horse mustard is FACT.

An Thas'Sa Fac, Jac ! :cool:

MCgunner
January 8, 2008, 01:12 PM
Well, I like .30-30, too. I mean, ain't many calibers that won't do the job. I never owned a lever gun in .30-30, though, go figure. I had a Savage 340, sold to my uncle in a time of abject poverty (as opposed to my normal level of poverty), and I now have a 12" contender in the caliber. Makes a GREAT pistol round, too! :D

I'm not sure why, but in my circle of friends, I don't know, but a couple who use the .30-30. Well, one of 'em inherited his grandpa's pre-64 94 Winchester, but he hunts with a Browning A bolt in 7-08 mostly. Has a 700 in .270, too. :D He's shot elk with that one. I like his 94, Williams receiver sight on it, 2" at 100 yards with irons! Danged fine shootin' old rifle.

Jeffreii
January 8, 2008, 03:20 PM
I now have a 12" contender in the caliber. Makes a GREAT pistol round

That is what I thought too - you ought to write and tell that to Hornady who liked bashing the so-so 30-30 if chambered in a 12" barrel. I never brought the 30-30 up as it wasn't in the list provided by the thread starter. Definitely less chance of bullet failure and the need for super-bullets with all the, really unneeded for many cases, high velocity.

TCB in TN
January 8, 2008, 04:53 PM
Your numbers are lovely things indeed, and I recommend them to one and all, especially to those who shoot most of their deer with numbers. But to try to smite me with the feeble accusation that I present no fact - when I clearly said that guns/calibers that blast and kick less are much easier for more people to shoot more comfortably and more effectively - and that is, in fact, Suh, -FACT - as anyone who has patiently observed thousands of shooters as have I can vouchsafe.... well you make my heart heavy with such castigations.

The only problem here is that you say that there is such a big difference between them in favor of the .270 when my own experience, and the numbers show that their is NOT. I do agree that less recoil and muzzle blast DO make it easier to shoot, but you are just wrong in your assertain that the .270 does what you say it does. (as proven by my own experience and the numbers)

And then you accuse me of "smack" and protest my labeling narrowminded knuckleheadery for exactly what it is when your protest follow close on the heels of a post from one of the '06 priests who writes such horse mustard as...

That was tongue in cheek remember the :neener:!

As for the rest, well I will just go on about my business and be happy with whatever guns I happen to have to shoot!

MCgunner
January 8, 2008, 05:28 PM
That is what I thought too - you ought to write and tell that to Hornady who liked bashing the so-so 30-30 if chambered in a 12" barrel. I never brought the 30-30 up as it wasn't in the list provided by the thread starter. Definitely less chance of bullet failure and the need for super-bullets with all the, really unneeded for many cases, high velocity.

You kiddin'? sheesh! I've only taken five deer and the furtherest was 90 yards, but it kills 'em just as dead as my .308! I shoot a Nosler 150 BT or a Barnes 140 X bullet. I've only killed with the Nosler, but have gotten good expansion and wound channel and complete penetration.

If Hornady bashed it, it's probably because you have to push an interlock bullet to 3500 fps to get any expansion out of it...:rolleyes: Interlock bullets penetrate, but I've had problems in the past with expansion even at rifle velocities on thin skinned game. Drop an interlock down to 2100 fps and forget it. But, the Nosler works fantastic and I'm not the only one that thinks so, have heard from others.

Sierra used to make a 135 Pro Hunter, designed for .30- 30 and .30 Herrett Contenders, but it's been dropped. That was a good bullet, but the 150 BT carries near 1000 ft lbs out of my Contender at 200 yards and that's plenty! It has a decent BC being a boat tail design. 3" high at 100, it's dead on at 200 in my gun. That's a lot flatter shooting than most of your straight cased revolver cartridges.

Okay, I'm way off topic, sorry.

eliphalet
January 8, 2008, 06:15 PM
Because the long 6.5 mm bullet holds it's energy well, it catches up to the faster .270 Win. and .308 Win. by time you reach the 200 yard line. Not so

It offers performance better than the .270 with the recoil of a .243.Not so by about 1/3

It's ballistic grandfather, the 6.5x55 Mauser has killed all sorts of critters. It was used extensivly by turn of the century hunters on African Elephants.Maybe so but in today world it and would qualify as unethical and irresponsible, good chance illegal.

An Thas'Sa Fac, Jac talk about balderdash and mustard gezzz

This is like spitin in the wind I otta know better

-------------------------------------------------------------


McGunner,
ever try run of the mill bullets in the T/C 30-30? Core-Lokts or Hornadys plane Jane bullet should work OK at those speeds.

Markbo
January 8, 2008, 06:24 PM
None of the above. My number one, go to load for whitetail deer is the .25-06. We have very generous limits (5 per year usually) and I have been hunting with the .25-06 for at least a dozen of those years. I have used all of the ones listed too. They have all shown to be inferior to our Texas deer.

Of all the deer I have shot, if it is not a central nervous system shut down, all of the others have had deer run. Not always very far.... usually 50 yards, but run nonetheless. Of the dozens of deer I have shot with the .25-06 only one animal (A large Mouflon Ram) has taken more than about 4 steps. And this is boiler room shots... I am not even counting the neck or head shots that drop them in their tracks.

This is from small Hill Country deer to some big South Texas deer. BANG. DRT.

MCgunner
January 8, 2008, 06:38 PM
I've got some 20 or so kills with the .257 Roberts, not far off the .25-06. I'm shootin' a 100 grain Game King at 3150 fps now days. Have used other loads in the past. I have about 10 kills so far with the .308. I can't really tell the difference. None of the deer kills with my .308 have been over 150 yards, but I had a coyote kill at about 370 by laser.

.25-06 is a fine deer caliber, won't dispute that, I don't really consider it superior to any other caliber. It does reach out there well and is light on the shoulder. My step-dad had a 700ADL in .25-06, good shootin' gun.

Markbo
January 8, 2008, 06:57 PM
FWIW I had an AR built in .257 WSSM. Once I get some time (some day!?) and can work up some accurate loads, I hope to try it out next deer season. Should be laser accurate and nearly mirrors .25-06 factory ammo.

MCgunner
January 8, 2008, 07:17 PM
An AR? Wow, that's novel! LOL If you're going to shoot a black rifle, why not a powerful one? :D Accuracy shouldn't be a problem.

Markbo
January 8, 2008, 07:28 PM
Shoot that's not even the biggest one I have. I also have a (VERY heavy) AR10T in .308 that is very capable of sub 1" 200 yard groups.

George Hill
January 8, 2008, 08:02 PM
"You are certainly entitled to believe that hordes of people with 30/06s while away the happy, windswept Western hours making head shots on camoflaged prairie dogs at 400 yds. (NOT 390yds., mind you!) with their old, off-the-rack '06's under cheap scopes - if you so choose."
No, those shots were done with Savage rifles... not expensive, rather common, but they did have good scopes on them. Sheppards, Zeiss', and VX-III... I never said they had cheap scopes on them. You missed my point. Most of the time, your average .30-06 will be equipped with cheap scopes... and that leads people to believe that they are just on average a less accurate cartridge. But with decent scopes on half decent rifles with a good shooter behind the trigger and with carefully reloaded ammunition... the accuracy is amazing.
Next time you come around my corner of Utah, you can come hunting P-Dogs or Coyotes with me and my friends. But bring some good optics because these wind swept western areas can make things hard to see unaided.
I'm not saying we all shoot .30-06's but lots do. Personally, I use a 7MM for long range shooting most of the time. .300 Win Mag other times when I want to hit harder at a distance.
Calling me a liar because you can't shoot? Interesting. If you want to test your opinion, you bring your .308 and we'll go do some shooting at see what's up. We'll see who puts more rabbits in the back of the truck.
All I'm saying is that the .30-06 can be amazingly accurate. I'm not even that much of a .30-06 fan.

Shawnee
January 8, 2008, 08:18 PM
Hi George...

I was just out in Utah last Sept., George, where were you ?

So tell me, George - you figure living in Utah means you can outshoot anyone from east of the Mississippi, do Ya ?

;)

George Hill
January 9, 2008, 12:55 AM
As they say in the westerns, I don't have to out shoot everyone... just you.
*ka-shing* spur sounds *ka-shing*
In all seriousness... there are only 3 things do out here.
Shoot, Drink, and ahem... well I don't drink and my wife smiles a lot. I only work 4 days a week... so that means I shoot and fish. I'm no good at fishing. Hard to aim at the blighters.

I had a hard time fixing my last post, server kept timing out on me so I posted it on MadOgre.com....
First, let's look at the .308. Looking at an average load for that, let's take a 165 grain BTSP load from Hornady. I'm taking the information right off Hornady's web site, so there is no bias here.
.308 Win. 165 gr. BTSP. Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2700/2670 2496/2282 2301/1939 2115/1638 1937/1375 1770/1147
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 2.00 0.00 -8.60 -25.10 -50.80

That's not bad at all. Now lets look at the .30-06 with the same bullet:
.30-06 Springfield, 165 gr. BTSP. Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2800/2872 2591/2460 2392/2096 2202/1776 2020/1495 1848/1251
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 1.80 0.00 -7.90 -23.00 -46.70

Undoubtedly the .30-06 has an edge on the .308. The Aught Six is faster and flatter. At 500 yards there is 4 inches less drop. Not significant, but there could be enough of a difference to make a clean and ethical kill, or a wounding. But if the shooter knows his gun, knows his loads, and is ethical... he'll make the kill with little problem. Really there is not enough difference to really matter... but the Aught Six clearly wins. Doesn't matter if you win by an inch or by a mile... there is a first place and there are losers. The .30-06 is a winner.

The real question is accuracy. Which can shoot the tightest groups. Again, all the arguments are anecdotal. I'm of the opinion that dollar for dollar – you build the exact same rifle with the exact same scope in each caliber... shooting the same bullet. I don't think you will find any difference in the size of the shot groups. I think the accuracy will be the same. When you look at the .308 sniper rifles out there, you see some really advanced stuff. Special scopes, special stocks, tweaked bedding and barrels... they spend a ton of money on those .308's to make them shoot. What would happen if you spend that much money on an .30-06? You would have some crazy good shooting Aught Sixes..

This isn't a win for the Aught Six here... but it is an answer to the chest beating to all those guys who think .308 is so bloody accurate and that's why all the snipers use it. No... All the snipers use for one of two reasons. 1, is legacy... meaning armories are full of .308 rifles and have tons of cases of rounds for .308. And 2, is the Jones's. Everyone else has it, so it must be good, so that's what we are going to use. Special Forces is now using .300 Win Mag more often and the US Secret Service, they use the 7MM Rem Mag.
I guess the best way to put this to the test is to take away as many variables as possible. Use a TC Encore rifle with a .308 and a .30-06 barrel and top them both with the same scopes. Take 3 different factory loads for each caliber all with the same bullet... and shoot the averages. Use a Lead Sled to brace the gun and to remove as much Human Error as possible. One of these days I'll have to buy both those barrels and do this. But even then it would only prove which one is more accurate out of those barrels. So even then it's not concrete.

BENELLIMONTE
January 9, 2008, 01:21 AM
For real world big game hunting I use specific calibers for specific applications: for doe mule deer & antelope I use a Rem. model 7 in 243 Win w 100grain Nosler partitions, for cow elk and buck mule deer I use a Tikka lite hunter in 270 Win with 150grain Nosler partitions and for bull elk or moose I shoot my Weatherby MKV in 300 Weatherby magnum w 200 grain Nosler partitions. In the past 30 years of hunting in the west I have used all the calibers you had questions about. I have found the 3 calibers I use now give me the most consistent kills on the size of game they are used for without being excessive in terms of recoil or meat damage.Hopefully that somewhat answers your question on caliber choices.

PITBULL
January 9, 2008, 03:48 PM
thanks yall, i thank im leaning to the 270 & 308

Shawnee
January 10, 2008, 05:02 PM
"*ka-shing* spur sounds *ka-shing*"

Spurs ??? :rolleyes: Geez, George, spurs are for Dudes and Spaghetti-Westerners,

and so are saddles and stirrups...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/FiveO/JimClassy6.jpg

ROTFLMAO !! :D:D:D


Hmmm... well since you didn't say whether your wife smiles a lot due to the "ahem", or due to the spurs (or both :what:) - uh, Nevermind.

:D

Terrierman
January 10, 2008, 09:37 PM
Real World:

.270 = .30-06 = .308 = .280 Rem = 7mm-08 = 6.5x55 = .260 Rem = 7x57

It is the rifle, the projectile used and the shooter that make the difference, not the caliber or chambering.

Rokman
January 10, 2008, 10:01 PM
I voted .30-06', but they are all fine deer calibers. I have personally killed scores of deer with great satisfaction with a .25-06'.

K3
January 11, 2008, 12:00 AM
Real World:

.270 = .30-06 = .308 = .280 Rem = 7mm-08 = 6.5x55 = .260 Rem = 7x57

It is the rifle, the projectile used and the shooter that make the difference, not the caliber or chambering.

For most hunting, this is largely true. There are always exceptions of course. On our lease, I think everybody has a different flavor they like.

There's
.308
.270
.30-06
.25-06
.300Wby Mag,
.243

We have mule deer and whitetail. One big muley field dressed at 275# a couple years back. Point is, all these different cartridges and I can't honestly say who has bagged and tagged more deer and if there was any discernable difference in percentage as far as hits vs clean kills go. We don't have blinds, so shots range from 50 to over 400 yards.

I would use 4 of those cartridges with confidence for elk hunting.

Firepower!
January 11, 2008, 08:52 AM
You have asked for a comparison chart. Then what is this poll for? Is it what we prefer, and if so, for what purpose. Thanks

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