.41 Magnum - semi-auto equivalent?


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Boulder
January 2, 2008, 05:41 PM
My understanding is that Elmer Keith wanted the .41 Magnum "police" to be a 200-210 grain SWC traveling around 950-1000 fps.

What semi-auto caliber (factory loadings) would come close to this?

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jameslovesjammie
January 2, 2008, 05:46 PM
10mm would be equivalent.

.401 bore diameter
200 grain fmj
~950-1,050 fps

Boulder
January 2, 2008, 06:08 PM
Do you feel there is much difference between 10 mm at your specified loading and a .40 S&W, say a 180 gr. traveling at 1025 fps (Gold Dot spec)?

I ask because I just got my first .40 S&W and it seems like a lot of "oldtimers" don't like this particular cartridge--preferring to stick to 9mm and .45 ACP for their semi-auto needs. But, they seem to like the .41 Mag "police" in the revolver platform for defense (as opposed to hunting).

I guess I'm just trying to understand their rationale... To me they seem pretty close.

I would love to get a 10 mm but I don't reload right now so it would be too expensive.

Tom C.
January 2, 2008, 06:27 PM
The 10mm came first. 200 gr. at 1200 fps. The 180 at 1100 is a slightly reduced load. Max with the 180 is about 1300 fps. The .40 S&W is a slightly shortened 10mm case to work in 9mm length receivers. Blame the FBI for all this nonsense. Your .40 load of 180 at 1025 fps is pretty well flat out. It is a light load in the 10mm.

Tom Servo
January 2, 2008, 10:32 PM
If they'd originally called the .41 Magnum something like "400 Police," or even ".41S&W," it might have stood a better chance. The word "Magnum" scares alot of folks off.

The original Norma loads were very similar in ballistics, but most of the newer 180gr 10mm are very mild.

ArchAngelCD
January 2, 2008, 11:06 PM
I would tend to agree the 10mm in a pistol would be close to a .41 Magnum in a revolver.

20nickels
January 2, 2008, 11:57 PM
ArchAngelCD, "I would tend to agree the 10mm in a pistol would be close to a .41 Magnum in a revolver."
So how about 10mm in a revolver? Related read;
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263263

Keith did intend for the .41 mag to duplicate proven .45 ACP stopping power however the ammo offerings at the time went velocity crazy and the .41 mag never caught on with police. There needed to be a ".41 Special" for the caliber to get off of the back burner.

vanilla_gorilla
January 3, 2008, 12:39 AM
I'd call the 10mm low-end .41 Magnum territory. I agree that a .41 Special might have helped the .41 get off the ground, but I think that it was moreso the invention of the .44 Magnum and it's huge popularity after the Dirty Harry movies that really decided the fate of the .41.

s4s4u
January 3, 2008, 01:24 AM
The 10mm auto would be the .41 special to the 41 mag. The 10mm magnum, 180 grains @ 1650 FPS, is more like it although there are not many pistols capable of holding it's length at 1.250". Factory ammo is scarce to say the least.

eliphalet
January 3, 2008, 03:00 AM
There was a 10 MM magnium a few years back, made by AMT I believe for the Auto Mag that was closer to the 41 than the current 10mm. A 200 grain bullet could be loaded to the 1400 FPS level.

rbmcmjr
January 3, 2008, 07:44 PM
I agree that a .41 Special might have helped the .41 get off the ground, but I think that it was moreso the invention of the .44 Magnum and it's huge popularity after the Dirty Harry movies that really decided the fate of the .41.

I'm not sure what you mean here. The .44 magnum predates the .41 by about 9 years.

Rick

W.E.G.
January 3, 2008, 07:56 PM
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=89049771#PIC

http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/089049000/89049771/pix1759313031.jpg

Rexster
January 3, 2008, 11:55 PM
I think the .40 S&W is the practical realization of the concept, even though the 10mm is ballistically closer to the mark. Of course, ballistically, the .40 S&W is a modern .38 WCF, a.k.a. .38-40, actually a .40 in spite of the .38 monikers.

ArchAngelCD
January 4, 2008, 12:12 AM
rbmcmjr,
Even though the 44 Magnum predated the .41 Magnum the Dirty Harry movie made the 6" S&W Model 29 so popular the .41 Magnum was overlooked because of the .44's popularity thus sealing it's fate. I think that's what vanilla_gorilla meant... I would agree the .44's huge popularity hurt the .41 Magnum so that it never realized it's full potential in the market.

Lloyd Smale
January 4, 2008, 07:41 AM
in a good strong revolver like a 610 and using 220 grain hardcast bullets a 10mm will sneak up out of the low end 41 level loads to being on an even keel. the only advantage to a 41 is it will handle heavier bullets and if you step a 41 up to 250 grain bullets then its nipping on the heals of a 44 mag and is a step up from the 10mm

caz223
January 4, 2008, 09:19 AM
If they made a .41 special, it would be the ballistic twin of the .40 shorty, but one was never christened.
I love both the 10mm and the .41 magnum for what they represent, for me the perfect compromise. All the power I need and not any more than I can handle. The .40 loses something in the translation, it's a compromise round that isn't good for much IMO.

That being said, if you find that the .40 has the most power you can handle, and no more; then by all means, be all about it, and don't apologise for it.

I can't shoot it as well as I can shoot the 10mm, so I go with the more powerful, more accurate (In my hands.) weapon.

Either go supersonic (9mm+p/357SIG/10mm.), or subsonic (.45 acp/9mm 147grainJHP.) , don't hang out where the interference of the sound barrier can compromise accuracy.

20nickels
January 4, 2008, 11:22 AM
Does anybody know why they chose the .400 over the existing .410 bullet when developing the 10mm? Competing companies?

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