Charles Daly Wants to Hear From You!


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Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 09:23 PM
Hello THR!

My name is Michael Kassnar. I am president of K.B.I., Inc., manufacturer, importer and distributor of Charles Daly brand firearms and ammunition.

Over the years, in addition to the Charles Daly brand (acquired by KBI in 1997), we have imported and distributed firearms from many manufacturers and sold under several different brand names, including FEG, FIAS, Sabatti, Churchill, Baikal, Liberty, Armscor, Zabala, Uberti, Armi San Marco, PSP, Pietta, etc.

In the past, I have not personally participated very much in internet forums. However, that is about to change.

Today I did a search for "Charles Daly" on THR, and frankly, I am somewhat dismayed over many of the negative comments made concerning our customer service. While many of you are happy with your KBI/Charles Daly firearm, apparently many of you are not.

For several years, actually since September of 2001, we have had a "Lifetime Repair Policy" on Charles Daly firearms. I believe that we are the only firearms company in the US that pays freight in both directions on repairs. That is, all you have to do is call us, email us or fax us, and we will contact you and then issue a FedEx call tag to pick up your firearm on our dime.

While it is true that you cannot make everyone happy all the time, I had instructed my service department many years ago to bend over backwards to make our consumers happy. It appears that we are doing something wrong in that department, judging by the number of negative comments that I read here.

Rather than respond to each thread one by one, I would like those of you that have had a negative experience with Daly to post in this thread. Over the next few weeks I will attempt to address each issue that is raised here.

I am willing to correspond with each and every one of you that has received sub-par service from my company. That is inexcusable. Several months ago I had to lay off our Service Department Manager who had been working with me for 21 years. Our new manager, Brad, has strict instructions to handle all service calls in a prompt, courteous and professional manner.

We pride ourselves on the quality/value of the guns we sell. Occassionally a lemon gets out there, but that happens with all companies. What should not happen is your displeasure with our service department. It is my intention to make sure that we have consumers that are pleased with our products and with our after-sales service.

This may be an unorthodox way of approaching this, but I want to get to the bottom of your complaints and make sure that in the future, you will only have good things to say about our firearms and our Customer Service.

Please do not hold back. I have a pretty thick skin after more than 30 years in this business. With your feedback, I promise you that we will have a Customer Service Department that we can be proud of again.

Sincerely,

K.B.I., Inc.

Michael Kassnar
President

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falnovice
January 3, 2008, 09:37 PM
I actually have only had one experience with CD firearms, a HP, and it is great! I am very sorry to see this one go out of production.
I will admit that rumors of poor CS on Charles Daly's end almost prevented me from buying it. I'm glad I did.

What would I like to see? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.......

How about importing the Tavor rifle?

bogie
January 3, 2008, 09:43 PM
Mike, it's nice to see you here!

IIRC, at least some of Daly's lines are more based on "price point" than "polish point." Fine, works for me. However, you're gonna run into people who get highly irritated that the boomstick that they just bought for $400 isn't up to the same standards as a $2,400 custom jobby... Yeah, we all know those folks are out there, and you're just not gonna be able to make 'em happy... And that's sad, because some of 'em can be VERY vocal - the Interweird allows ANYONE with ANY kinda grievance to air it - loudly. We just all need to look at 'em with a critical eye...

Now... That ECS 1911 version - Short stack, short barrel? What's the street price on that puppy? I'm thinking I want one...

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 09:43 PM
falnovice, glad to hear from you.

If only the Tavor was importable! Unfortuately, since the "Assault Weapons Study" that Clinton commisioned in 1993, the Tavor can never meet BATF's "Sporting" Criteria. It would be illegal to import it into the US.

OAKVILLE SHOOTER
January 3, 2008, 09:51 PM
I have never had any dealings with a Charles Daly product as of yet. However, I have been interested in the 105 and 106 O/U shotguns since Dave Workman wrote them up in Guns.

http://www.charlesdaly.com/html/products/firearms/shotguns/OU/105/105.asp

http://www.charlesdaly.com/html/products/firearms/shotguns/OU/106/106.asp

This is surely an interesting aproach to customer feedback by the way.

OAKVILLE SHOOTER
January 3, 2008, 09:56 PM
Also, I posted this question here a few months ago, and got no responses. Maybe you can shed a little light?

Among the guns that I got from my dad is a side-by-side 20 gauge. It is marked Eagle Arms by Zabala Eibar Spain. I know mom gave it to him in the early '70s, new I think, but I can't find a serial number on it. So I'm thinking that it is a little older than that, pre-firearms act.

I did a Google search for Zabala, the site is in Spanish (go figure) so I can't read it. Anybody out there know anything about these shotguns?

Thanks.
Oakville Shooter

Technosavant
January 3, 2008, 10:01 PM
I don't have any CD products, but I am glad to see a factory rep eager to engage the community, and I commend you for it.

And for the record, I believe Smith & Wesson pays shipping both ways, and Springfield Armory does it on occasion (had them do it before, others haven't). Still, though, that's a very admirable policy, and again, I commend you for it.

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 10:05 PM
Zabala has made shotguns over the years under many different brand names. In the '70's he sold to Richland, Kassnar Imports, Armsport and several others. I am personally not familiar with the Eagle Arms brand from that time.

This is a link to Zabala's site in English: http://www.zabalahermanos.com/catalogo-en.htm.

The serial number should be under the top lever or on the water table.

Back in those days a Zabala side by side sold for about $100 to $150 retail! Today the same gun would retail for around $1,000.

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 10:08 PM
Technosavant, thanks for your post. If there are other gun companies that do pay freight in both directions, I stand corrected. I was not aware that S&W or Springfield did that.

Do they publish that policy or do you have to ask/push for it?

OAKVILLE SHOOTER
January 3, 2008, 10:10 PM
Thanks for the link, Your time, and your interest.

jerkface11
January 3, 2008, 10:10 PM
Do you have a 28 gauge double? I'm interested in one and the Turkish one imported by Mossberg seems to be the only one in my price range but they're a bit heavy.

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 10:21 PM
jerkface11, do you want an O&U or a S/S?

mikec
January 3, 2008, 10:23 PM
I have always wondered why importers/manufacturers/etc don't bother to have a presence on the larger forums. Even if the company has someone spend two hours a week visiting one site and baby sitting their interests it would help with PR.

It is unfortunate that you lost the rights to your Mauser rifles. Any chance of your company getting another bolt action in the fold?

doubleg
January 3, 2008, 10:25 PM
How about a .308 Win Hunting rifle that comes with Peep sights, and can mount a scope. I'd buy it the day it came out. Maybe on an Lee Enfield action?

Otony
January 3, 2008, 10:31 PM
Are the Little Sharps going to be available in .30-30 this year (hint: now?) ? Would really like to have one of those!

Wes Janson
January 3, 2008, 10:31 PM
Thank you for posting! That speaks volumes in of itself-far too few companies proactively interact with customers on the Internet, which is a true shame.

Does Charles Daly do any manufacturing stateside, or just purely importation? I can think of a whole list of foreign-made firearms I'd love to see someone bring in and sell (Tavor, FAMAS, Neostead, PE 90, SA80, etc), except that they fail to meet the sporting criteria, and would thus need US compliance parts to be eligible for sale to the public.

kingpin008
January 3, 2008, 10:31 PM
Mr. Kassnar - First, let me also welcome you to THR! It's very nice to be able to speak directly to a representative of a firearms company.

I own a Charles Daly Field EFS. It was my first ever 1911-platform pistol, and it's beautiful. There were some "break-in" troubles at the start, but at my current round count of a little under 2k rounds, function is superb.

As a shooter on a budget, I appreciate very much companies with policies and products such as yours, that make quality pistols available at great prices, and with great service. I've spoken with Ivan over at the M1911.org forums in the past when I was experiencing my initial issues with the pistol, and not only was he prompt with a reply, but very patient and willing to help trouble-shoot as well.

Despite what others may say, sir - I count Rock Island and Charles Daly products as five-star. Thanks for joining, and giving us the chance to both sing praise and discuss problems (if any).

manyskunks
January 3, 2008, 10:33 PM
Michael,
Glad to see you're interest!
I have a Charles Daly field grade 1911 45ACP ECS purchased new. This is one of the finest grouping firearms I own. It will group seven 185 gr Reminigton Golden Sabres in less than an inch at 20 yards. I am handicapped and for me that is damn good!!
I would like to use this as a carry piece as it is small enough and light enough.
There is one problem, though. It drops the groups two feet at that 20 yard distance. The rear sight isn't adjustable, of course, but, stupid me I figured that if I just filed it down a bit it would be just fine and I wouldn't have to send it in. Well, after filing half of the sight down it still shoots a foot low. If I could get it to shoot point of aim I would have one of the best 1911s I've ever owned.
I suppose I ruined the warranty or can I still send it back and have your smiths see if they can get it to shoot point of aim?
If I did ruin the warranty, what will it cost to get your smiths to fix it up for me? The gunsmiths in this area are few and far between.
Thanks!! and Best Wishes for a Prosperous New Year!!
ManySkunks
PM me as I sometimes don't get back to the computer. manyskunks@hughes.net

beasleydano
January 3, 2008, 10:38 PM
I have never owned a Charles Daly marked firearm but have sold and personally owned many KBI, Inc. imported firearms. I had a FFL and sold part-time for many years and though I was not a volume seller by any means I personally liked many of the KBI offerings and sold many. I still own several KBI imported Russian Makarovs and FEG pistols and have had no problems with any of them. When I search for firearms and magazines on the auction sites I always do a search for KBI. By the way, I sure wish that I had held onto a Sabatti heavy barrel .22 semi-auto rifle! I do not recall if it was imported by KBI or EAA.

safetyjoe
January 3, 2008, 10:48 PM
Mr. Kassnar, I would like to say thank you also for taking the time to listen to your customers. I feel that it says a lot for a man if he is willing to face his customers and let them voice their likes as well as dislikes. I don't have any CD firearms and am not sure if I ever will; not because of any preexisting bias, but rather a somewhat limited recreational budget. I have seen photos of some of your firearms and they appear very nicely made and of high quality, so perhaps in the future... Again, thank you for standing behind your products.

BHPshooter
January 3, 2008, 10:48 PM
Mr. Kassnar,
I have never had any direct dealings with Charles Daly myself, although we routinely have their guns in our store.

The CD 1911s fill a good price niche, and I think, represent a high bang/buck ratio. Although I was a little critical of the Charles Daly HPs when they first became available, I have been much more impressed with the later ones that I have seen, and I'm saddened by the fact that they're not widely available. I can't find them through any of the distributors that we regularly go through (Acusport, Sports South, Camfour, MT Sports, RSR, Hicks Inc., Davidson's), which for a small shop like us, makes it very difficult to stock.

We do sell a pretty good number of CD shotguns, especially the 20-guage youth pump models. The price is right, the size is right, the weight is right, and they are durable.

I really must say, having the guts and integrity to do what you're doing speaks volumes. You're a good guy in my book.

Wes (Hi Power fanatic)

EDIT: Okay, correction: I have owned a KBI-imported FEG Hi Power, which was a companion on MANY nights, and currently own a KBI-imported Yugo SKS that is too pretty to believe.

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 10:50 PM
mikec, thanks for your post. We will make it a point to visit THR on a regular basis and interact with the public. Don't know why I haven't done this until now...

Yes, it was a shame that Zastava took the rifles away from us and gave them to Remington. We had worked very hard to bring that rifle back to the US and then the big boy promised them the world and got the line. Now you can have the exact same rifle for $200 more that what it used to cost under the Daly name. That is if you can find them. We never believed that Remington really wanted the line; they just wanted to get rid of a competitor.

I doubt very much if you will see a new B/A rifle from us any time soon. We intend to focus our resources on a new division of the company that will have its formal launch at the SHOT Show next month, Charles Daly Defense. See: http://www.charlesdaly.com/pdf/2008_cdd_msrp_pl_121007_rev4.pdf.

Just what the world needs, another AR-15/M-4!

Zundfolge
January 3, 2008, 10:55 PM
I'd like to see you guys put out a semi auto shotgun set up for 3-gun. 18.5" barrel, extended 7 or 8 round magazine, ghost ring sights of some sort.

Something to compete with the FN SLP and Mossberg 930 SPX or other tac...er, similarly outfitted "non-sporting" shotguns (no I'm NOT going to use the "T" word :p ).

Would be nice to see someone other than Mossberg build a quality 3-gun shotgun at a reasonable price (unlike the FN, Benelli and Fabarm offerings).

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 10:58 PM
kingpin008, thank you for your comments. They are music to my ears. Too often, all we hear are the negatives. Rarely does someone take the trouble to let you know when they are happy with something you have done. Perhaps this new "engagement" on our part will enable us to hear from our satisfied customers as well.

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 11:00 PM
manyskunks, I will send you a PM. I'm sure we will be able to work out a fair fix for your sighting problem.

BigO01
January 3, 2008, 11:02 PM
Well Mr. Kassnar just remember you asked us not to hold back , so here goes .

While it is nice that you will indeed pick up shipping both ways "as I know from personal expierence" but a LIFETIME WARRANY should truely be for the lifetime of your product regardless of who owns it .

My very first gun was S&W 586 that had a problem and I took it to an approved local warranty station and they never asked me a single question regarding proving I was the original owner "which I was" and they repaired my gun in 1 week exactly . They replaced the extractor star and I never had another problem with the gun .

Now here's how your people handle things .

I bought a brand new 1911 model EFS about 3 years ago all paperework included , it had a mangled barrel bushing from the factory , it ran fine for months but then began breaking the recoil spring plugs due to the uneven pressure the bushing was putting on them . At the time I didn't have a set of calipers and it also looked as though the slide might be slightly out of specs on the front end .

I called and was sent a shipping tag and returned the gun .

I then waited a full week and called back to see what the progress on it was and was told it wasn't there despite it having been shipped UPS overnight air .

I waited a couple of days and called back and was told it was there but it hadn't been touched due to a backlog that was about 4 weeks behind .

I called a third time a full week later and was given the same response as above and then again for the 4th time in another week .

A day or two later I received a letter stating that your people wouldn't honor the warrenty because I had bought the gun used which I hadn't , so I made another and the 5th call to them .

I was told the gun had been made in 1988 and I couldn't have purchased it new in 2004 and that I hadn't registered a Warrenty . I had registered my Warranty at the Web site "after all on the site there is a place for this if you know your own site" as such I didn't bother to reregister it by sending in the card as no other company would require such nonsense .

I had to call the dealer I had bought the gun from and he kindly faxed a copy of my receipt to factory after which they agreed to work on the gun .

Now they had my gun for 3 full weeks before they started playing these games and I distinctly recall being asked for the guns seriel number in the very first call before it was even sent in to them .

All they did to it was to replace the barrel bushing , claim they test fired it and sent it back from what I could see .

Total time to replace a barrel bushing was 4 1/2 weeks .

Fortunately the gun now functions almost perfectly and is very accurate .

I since have bought a NEW model EMS that has a sticky grip safety I think I'll take it to a local Smith rather than dealing with a bunch of people who will call me a liar about buying it new and try to weasel out of their commitment to the product .

TehK1w1
January 3, 2008, 11:04 PM
Mr. Kassner, I am very impressed to see you on this forum, and although I do not currently own a Charles Daly firearm, the fact you have joined this board speaks words to me about your dedication to customer service. I only wish that more firearms companies wished that level of care about our opinions.

armedandsafe
January 3, 2008, 11:06 PM
There is one thing I know about gun owners on the internet:

1) Those who own a properly operating and reliable gun are too busy shooting it to talk about it when they are on the net.

2) Those who percieve any tiny flaw in a gun that is not from a bragging-rights brand name will scream from the rooftops.

The CD guns I have shot and purchased have been reliable, smooth and accurate. That is what I look for and what I expect. Charles Daly has delivered.

Pops

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 11:07 PM
Zundfolge, ATF will no longer allow the importation of pumps or semi-autos with mag capacities in excess of 5 rounds. We could easily build one. Our maker has a real nice ghost ring sight he developed. Is there a market for this with a 5 round mag tube?

revjen45
January 3, 2008, 11:14 PM
You could sell a passel of Daewoo rifles with the requisite number of U.S, made parts.

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 11:18 PM
BigO01, You were treated poorly. I apologize. This should never have happened. It is stories like this (and other issues) that led me to lay-off our Manager of Customer Service. After working for me for 21 years he still couldn't see the "big picture" and just take care of your problem without making a fuss and creating badwill.

Please do not take your new gun to a local smith. If you will PM me your contact details I will have a FedEx Call Tag issued, we will service the pistol and get it back to you as soon as possible. Brad, our new Manager will not call you a liar as I am sure you are not. What happened in the past I cannot correct now but I can make sure you are treated properly in the future.

I don't know why the old manager behaved in the way he did. We will not weasel out of our obligation to our consumers.

I look forward to having the opportunity to redeem our company in your eyes.

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 11:25 PM
revjen45, I realize the AR market may appear crowded, but we actually think that there will not be enough of these guns available during this election year and perhaps during the first 6 months after the election.

The Daewoo is a great rifle but the AR is extremely popular and we want to take our little share of this market during this time. Our AR's are 100% made in the US and the quality is going to surprise everyone. (Don't let the MSRP scare you away, the real world "street" prices will be considerably less $.)

The big domestic manufacturers have turned themselves into importers. I think it's time for an importer to become a domestic manufacutrer!

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 11:28 PM
Wes Jansen, we are doing more and more projects either partially stateside or entirely in the US. The value of the $ has deriorated so much that manufacturing in the US looks more and more attractive all the time. That and the fact that there are many more restrictions on imported guns that simply don't apply to guns made in the US.

I have some old friends at IWI (formerly IMI) from the days when we did the Jericho pistol project (now Baby Eagle). Perhaps there could be some opportunity to do something with the Tavor here in the US. I do remember though that the Tavor was very expensive when I last discussed it with them. When I see my friend at SHOT next month I'll discuss it with him.

White Horseradish
January 3, 2008, 11:31 PM
I own a CD 1911 that I got secondhand. I'm not sure of the model name, it is blued, with large fixed sights and front serrations on the slide. The parts I could complain about I already replaced. I have to say that the quality of machining on the frame is less than that of RIA. The most noticeable thing is uneven beveling of the magwell with a couple of small chunks of metal not removed. Perhaps this is an older model (serial is CD00439x) and things have improved.

I am curious, the sights are dovetailed and I was told they are original CD ones. IF I wanted to replace them, what would I look for?

Kman
January 3, 2008, 11:35 PM
Hey Mike, any chance of us seeing a list of available firearms that you could bring in from over seas??

Number 6
January 3, 2008, 11:40 PM
Thank you for coming to THR and seeking feedback. That speaks volumes about your company. One thing I would like companies to do when they offer AR15s is to offer different barrel profiles other than HBARs or M4 profile barrels. Medium and Gov't profile barrels and midlength gas systems would nice options to have, if at all possible.

Charles Daly
January 3, 2008, 11:41 PM
That's it for tonight guys. I need my beaty rest to get ready for the Ellett Brother;s Dealer Show which starts tomorrow and runs for 3 days here in Columbia, SC Dearlers in the area, come on over if you can. It will operate until Sunday afternoon!

kermit315
January 3, 2008, 11:43 PM
well, I have found small problem with my CD Field Tactical, but I think both were Big 5's fault and not yours. the ad that ran in the paper showed the shotgun with a rear ramp sight, and none of the ones in the store had it. also, when I picked up my shotgun from the store, the front sight was ever so slightly bent to the left. It doesnt affect me that much, I mean its a shotgun and not a high accuracy rifle. It functions great, takes down very simply, and I have never had any real problems with it. I think I got a good deal and would buy another CD shotgun in the future ( and just might as a gift for my cousin.)

Thanks for taking the time to create an account to keep up with what it seems you customer service has been letting slide. It speaks volumes about your character, and what you wish to do with the company in the future.

Jamie

Kman
January 3, 2008, 11:45 PM
I own a Turkish made 3.5" 12 gauge pump dipped in real tree from end to end, it's my turkey gun, go figure. While I am overall pleased, it does have a slight problem chambering Winchester 3.5" shells. It seems Winchesters are a bit longer than most other manufacturers, and so requires a double pump to chamber correctly on occasion. Not a big deal as I have switched to the Remington heavy shot 3" shell, but thought you might want to know.

Mauserguy
January 4, 2008, 12:12 AM
I have one of your Zastava Mausers. It is a great gun. Frankly, you should have priced it higher. If Remmington drops the line, definately pick it up. Also, maybe you should look at Brno. They make some good bolt guns still.

I have not had any problems with my Zastava Mauser so I cannot comment on the quality of the customer service department, but asking for input is a good sign.
Mauserguy

MICHAEL T
January 4, 2008, 12:22 AM
I only want a 1911 with no front serrations on the slide. I have one and can't stand the looks or way scrapes holsters. From what I see on boards looks like about 50/50 on them I also won't buy pistols with Bill Boards on slide. One of the reasons I like DW bobtail Commander. simple and clean.

Noxx
January 4, 2008, 12:23 AM
I only have experience with one of your products, a Hi Power I purchased in 2007. Overall I'd have to say I'm happy with the gun, it shoots well and feeds just about anything.

I did have a small problem with the rear sight not staying put regardless of how often I tightened the set screws, however it was not something that warranted shipping a firearm back and forth and I just fixed it myself.

After several thousand rounds I've had no other problems and remain satisfied with your product. Thanks for dropping by our corner of the internet to check in.

bfox
January 4, 2008, 12:57 AM
Mr Kassner
I have a CD 1911 I bought around 5 years ago.
I was shooting it one day and the safety worked loose and
the spring and plunger plug got lost .

I took it to a local shop a guy fixed it , I thought
but the same thing happened. Didn't lose the parts that time .

I tryed to tighten the female part of the safety and Snapped it .
I am not sure if I sent the warranty card in .
I bought it new . Would I be covered ?

Tryed to explain it the best I could .

Thanks Bill

bfox
January 4, 2008, 01:02 AM
I forgot wanted to ask .
Are you still bringing 1911's in ?
Never see very many anymore .

Bill

Big Boomer
January 4, 2008, 01:08 AM
Not that I have really have ever been interested in a Daly before, the quote above about the shipping being paid both ways is correct from my experience on a S&W 460 mag, I had the frame replaced do to a malformation on the breach face near the firing pin.

After a quick phone call, they emailed me the prepaid pack slip, I brought it in they packed it up and off it went. About a week later it came back, but the sights were way off. Didn't call in about that one figured I could just move the front sights myself.

I did not have to ask for the shipping to be paid.

Things that I use to consider a new firearm, especially a new manufacturer is the responses of others here on the board, this is also why I will NEVER buy a Kimber.

I have actually just made 3 purchases in the last 15 days. I will tell you the reasoning for each.

1. A Springfield TRP 1911, reason: new carry gun, spent about $1500 after TT&L wanted something extremely reliable, tight fit, custom feel, high quality of workmanship with lots of "extras" without having to "bubba" it. Material was also a key component, no alloy frames for me. I found what I wanted within a reasonable price, I almost bought a Springfield Loaded, came "this" close, but decided on the TRP instead, glad I did. I could have bought two of those for the price of the TRP.

Your pistols had not been considered because of one, the word of mouth, two I have no idea of materials used or the quality of workmanship for the price. Customer service is important, warranties are not. Ruger has no declared warranty and I buy plenty of their products and have been extremely happy with their customer service.

If you want to win over someone with your customer service and have your customers screaming from the mountain tops about it, make it better that right, don't just fix the gun, send it back with a trigger job, some complimentary carry sights, an extra magazine, perhaps some custom fitting. Give it that extra touch. Remember it is a pain the rear to send a firearm in a lot of places. In addition to the gas and time spent going down to send it off many just consider getting it fixed by the local smith. I sent a Ruger Blackhawk back in for service that was at least 10 years old had been owned by a few people and someone had mucked with the trigger, I had a new cylinder fit, cost of the part $60 plus shipping. I also asked them to tighten up the trigger and charge me whatever was needed. They only charged me for the price of the cylinder, they replaced all the internals and fitted the new cylinder and paid for shipping back. It came back 2x better than when I sent it in. This lead to 4 other purchases.

Yes, these things are costly. Quality control is key, if it leaves right, it won't come back. It will cost more on your end at first but after time you will reap the rewards. We don't mind paying more for a quality product. Just make sure the quality is there. In addition if you have a huge variation of prices in a single line make a LONG list of what is done to justify the quality and cost. Let us make the decision but if a thousand dollars separates one of the other models and all we can find is added night sites, match barrel and bushing, with a mag well and some checkering, well some really don't care about that. But what was left out is that along with that came another 50 man hours of fitting and reliability testing we might be disappointed with the lower model but happy with the upper one yet still feeling like we got taken.

2. Anyhow, on to the second purchase, a Ruger 10/22 in stainless, base model for plinking added a lot of after market goodies, I already own and love it, never considered another 22 period.

3. A mossberg M590A1, I had actually not considered this at all until I had it suggested to me here on the board, go figure. I was looking for a HD shottie and did primarily all my research on here.

We (THR) are a few thousand individuals that spend untold thousands on firearms per year. I am not sure of the figures but I alone have spent in excess of $3k this year, not including accessories and ammo. Multiply that times a few users here and you see where that goes. This forum is not meant to promote one company or another, but if you want suggestions on how to improve your product offerings or what we look for when we go out to purchase a firearm feel free to ask. Not only are there the members that are on here but we also have friends that do not visit this site. We (THR members) are usually looked to by our friends for firearm purchases and tend to be quite educated in the matter. I have personally been approached by quite a few of my friends and shooting buddies when it came time for them to buy a new firearm for advice.

I personally applaud you for reaching out to our community and getting some face time with the little people!

There are a couple of things to consider when a firearm leaves your door, 1. would I own this? Meaning, would I be happy paying for the asking price for this product in the condition that it is? Or, would I purchase something else if it was MY money?

Another is this, regardless of price, say if your father passed and had left you some firearms (so basically they were free) and in a box rests an heirloom. If you had to match one of your products with any of your competitors at a similar price point high or low so we are not judging on dollar value here what would you rather have in that box? Would it be a Springfield or perhaps a Charles Daly? When you can answer that and justify why you will understand us.

Changes cannot take place overnight, neither can word of mouth. It is hard to be recommended, but even worse to overcome having a QC issue. For some companies will never make it back and will forever be labeled "junk". Growth is slow and hard, so is protecting margin while maintaining a competitive price point. I would not recommend selling something cheap just to get a piece out the door with your name on it. Sell it under a different name if that is what you wish, protect your brand image with your higher offerings. Do not lump all your products from a low to high price point under the same name you will kill yourself. Try something like "The such and such" by Charles Daly with a tag line of "it ain't pretty but it will outlast you". Something that illustrates a workhorse or basic line lacking the fine finish. Keep your higher end offerings separate but detail as said above what exactly has been done, you will find more that people will drop the extra cash if they know what they are getting. In addition give reasonings to why certain things are done. We are not gunsmiths, but some of us play one on the boards here. We may not know what a custom slide to frame fit does, or guaranteeing 90% or better lug engagement. I bet your smith does though. Tell us what makes a Daly a Daly by model and why we should own one. If I was Joe Schmo and had $1500 to drop on a nice 1911 and didn't know how to research I would just go to the website and read. Do you know how little info there is listed on each firearm out there? It is astounding, they ask so much for in $$$ but with nothing to back it up. If it weren't for this site I most likely would not have spent what I did. Educate your consumers, be the first!

That being said, once again thanks for dropping by!

G.A. Heath
January 4, 2008, 01:12 AM
I owned a Charles Daly 1911 once. I bought it, took it home, inspected/cleaned/lubed it and took it to the range the next day. That pistol did not return home with me as another gentleman at the range wanted the gun far worse than I did. I did however take home more than twice what I payed for that gun I bought used.

I applaud the stance your company has taken with California over the micro stamping and am considering another one of your pistols (for my purchase after the next gun I buy). One reason I am considering one of your products for purchase is because of your stance with California even tough you do not produce a gun in the configuration I want (well no one I have found does).

asknight
January 4, 2008, 01:32 AM
No warranty on a KBI imported FEG PMK-380 huh? :D

hobbeeman
January 4, 2008, 01:51 AM
I applaud you for your stance here.

I only have one gripe about my Daly Double Action (DDA) .45acp... That is that I cannot find extra magazines for it.

I purchased the firearm used, apparently after the company stopped importing it. It was made by Bul in Israel, and is one of the sweetest shooters I have.

Question: Many "lifetime warranties" honor whomever currently owns the item (RCBS, Craftsman, even the often bemoaned High Point IIRC) Does this apply to the Charles Daly name?

reddogIII
January 4, 2008, 01:52 AM
Four or five years ago I bought a Charles Daly pump shotgun (forget the model number). Bought as a present for my 14-yr-old son, the gun failed to fire when you pulled the trigger. This happened (or, didn't happen) with several brands of ammunition. We sent it back to Charles Daly, with a note explaining the problem. They sent it back saying it was repaired. Took out gun and it still failed to fire! Consequently, son missed duck season. Called CD Customer Service, explained I was not happy with their "repair" since they didn't do anything. Sent it back again. Again, shotgun is returned to us. Again, shotgun does not fire when you pull the trigger. Called CD AGAIN , explained that it still will not fire, that several experienced shotgunners have looked the gun over, tried to fire it, offered several suggestions - none of which had any effect. Got into a very heated discussion with the CD Customer Service Rep who insisted there was nothing wrong with the gun.

Sold the POS. Bought son a Remington.

Charles Daly, I hope this will help you to improve your Customer Service Department. Hope to hear good things in the future from your company.

ReddogIII

dakotasin
January 4, 2008, 01:58 AM
charles daly- don't own any of your guns, but your continued presence here could change that - i really like to be able to air stuff out w/ somebody who has the authority to say yes or no, and that is the final word.

now... about the ar-15... if you can bring them in w/ 16-18" lightweight barrels (pencil barrels, whatever), and assuming quality is fair for the price (no cast receivers, please, thanks) i'll probably take a half dozen.

i am sick to death of h-bars and m-4 profiles. my last 3 ar's were custom builds (by a 'smith out in virginia) just so i could get the barrel i wanted - no other reason.

anyway, thank you for your efforts and presence, here.

Buck Nekkid
January 4, 2008, 02:00 AM
Not much mention, if any, of your cowboy sixguns. In all honesty they could be a lot better. I've shot a couple of matches with a borrowed pair, but I just wouldn't buy them. In order to be very competitive they would need some pretty good gunsmithing. If they were significantly lower in price than the Uberti's, maybe it would be worth it, but a Uberti Cattleman just seems so much better out of the box.

On the other hand I really--and mean REALLY!!--would like to see you import the Zastava Model 57 Lux. Wow, a "modern" semi auto that fires the 7.62x25 with a warranty...it just couldn't get ANY better than that!!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/ottonsure/ZastavaModel57Lux.jpg

Buck

Wes Janson
January 4, 2008, 02:32 AM
That Model 57 looks suspiciously 1911-ish...


Thank you for the reply!

jhco50
January 4, 2008, 03:00 AM
I think it is wonderfull that you would engage the shooting fraturnity direct like this. I would love to see more of it.

Since you are asking... :) As you know, the company that owned Winchester deserted us. In so doing, they quit making some fine firearms. Is there anyway you could become liscensed to have the Winchester 94 series of rifles brought back? Even imports, if reasonable in price, would be nice.

bogie
January 4, 2008, 03:01 AM
I'm guessing I know the mentality of the former "customer service" guy...

Betcha his paperwork was excellent, and all the numbers/metrics were met, at least on paper, and he was always right at his budget.

He just sorta forgot WHY he was in that position...

migoi
January 4, 2008, 03:30 AM
I have two CD shotguns (both are 12G Field Tactical Model pumps). One I've had since June 2004. Since then I've run a whole lot of rounds through it. I used it for a tactical shotgun class. I use it for shooting trap with a group of other firearms instructors at a private camp about every 5 or 6 weeks. I've never had any issue with it...works every time.

I like it so much that when my favorite gun store got another one in recently I bought it and put it in a Bore Store in the back of my safe... I'm bound to eventually wear out the first one and want a back up.

I generally consider that shotgun to be one of the better deals I've made on a firearm. In December I won the shotgun stage of my clubs 3 gun bowling pin match. Several guys I beat were shooting fairly high dollar semi-auto's.

Thanks for putting out a shotgun that works so well for me.

migoi

jarine
January 4, 2008, 03:45 AM
Mr. Kassnar,
All I can say is, WOW!! I don't currently own a Charles Daly but the guns I do own are from companies that are very well known for excellent customer service and after sales help. To me personally, that is very important in where I spend my hard earned money. After reading your post, I am now going to look at Charles Daly as I expand my collection.

Thank you Sir!

Big Az Al
January 4, 2008, 03:54 AM
Mike,

I fix guns for small shops that don't have enough volume to have a smith on site,

The CD's I have seen this way are usually dirty from to much use and and little or no care, A good cleaning and they are good to go for a long time!

The ONE of out and broken part, 1 phone call and the part was in my hand in 3 or 4 days, That is better then most parts houses!

pete f
January 4, 2008, 03:59 AM
A question, when you took over the CD name, did you also take over support for the older guns out there? reason I am asking is there are a lot of the older Japanese CD shot guns out there (the superposed clone) and I was wondering if you are supporting those guns, as the prices are darn attractive and If there is support, I will be buying some.

Otherwise, just keep reminding the people who do the final inspection/testing of your guns that one bad gun (not working, blemished, etc) in the wrong hands is capable of more image damage than 100 perfect in the right hands.

VirgilCaine
January 4, 2008, 04:29 AM
On the other hand I really--and mean REALLY!!--would like to see you import the Zastava Model 57 Lux. Wow, a "modern" semi auto that fires the 7.62x25 with a warranty...it just couldn't get ANY better than that!!


Does it use a double-stack magazine?

jwxspoon
January 4, 2008, 06:31 AM
I've got a ZDA and it's a fantastic little gun - I actually like it more than my Sig! I realize you're no longer importing them and Zastava is selling them, but I thought I would throw the positive plug in. I would not hesitate to buy another Daly.

jw

PS - I will be at the show on Saturday in Columbia.

marlin.357
January 4, 2008, 07:01 AM
Thanks for the interest, and welcome aboard!

I've got about 4000 rounds through my CD 1911 EFS without any problems other than a couple of weaK magazine springs. My first and only 1911!

I have toyed with the idea of replacing the sights with either adjustable or night sights, but because of the odd size of the dovetail cuts on the slide replacement sights aren't available.

Hellion Productions
January 4, 2008, 08:23 AM
Sir,

If you're taking suggestions on new rifles to import, please take a look at the Australian International Arms M-10 series of Enfield-pattern rifles in .308 WIN, and 7.62x39. I think they'd do well in the US, but no importer seems able to seal the deal.

Marstar has them up in Canada. Here's a link.
http://www.marstar.ca/gf-AIA/index.shtm

Thank you for your time. Enjoy wading through the posts!

Best,
John Bear Ross

XDKingslayer
January 4, 2008, 08:29 AM
And for the record, I believe Smith & Wesson pays shipping both ways, and Springfield Armory does it on occasion (had them do it before, others haven't).

Springfield will pay the shipping if it's warranty work. However, you have to pay the shipping to them and then they reimburse you for it.

Sounds like Charles Daly pays for the shipping to them up front.

Brian Williams
January 4, 2008, 09:02 AM
I just want to say Welcome to THR and I was in the process of saving for a mini Mauser action and the Big Greenie stole the line from you. I still have a line on a 223 bolt face version.

RandyB
January 4, 2008, 10:02 AM
Mr. Kassnar,
I have never had any direct dealings with Charles Daly myself, my hunting buddy and his wife own several of your firearms though and like them. To any firearms buisinessman I would like to see the following:

1. A handgun/rifle combo in .454 Cas. or .460 S&W. A double action revolver with a 4-5 inch barrel and a handy carbine with ability to mount a scope would be great here in Indiana since they just leaglized pistol cart. rifles for deer hunting.
2. Someone to make a competitor to the savage Model 24 and the Springfield M6 Scout. These are fun guns.
3. A M1 carbine that is as good as the orginal military ones.
4. Remember us lefty's. I own a lot of savages due to their taking care of my left handed needs. I think it is an untapped market.

I thank you for taking the time and effort to listen to us. That alone has me wanting to take a closer look at your products and spend some money! If the gun industry would spend more time listening to the buyers instead of developing another .30 cal. cartridge.......

Owens
January 4, 2008, 10:05 AM
Says a lot, jumping in here, Charles Daly. I have a 1911 in stainless (CD011xxx). Bought new. Great shooter. Had a machining burr on the mag catch, which was easily knocked off. Doesn't like HP's, but then all I shoot is RN. Other than that, no problems at all.

I find it very refreshing that a company would jump out into the deep like this.
Thanks for taking an interest, and welcome to The High Road.

jerkface11
January 4, 2008, 10:27 AM
I'd prefer a SBS but would take an OU. As long as it's lighter than the Kahn.

JAG2955
January 4, 2008, 10:35 AM
I too would like to see a list of possible imports.

How about a top-break revolver in a modern, non-rimfire caliber?

40SW
January 4, 2008, 11:07 AM
I have several Charles Daly 1911s, including my favorite, which is the EFS.
They are exceptional values for the money, but my only gripe with any firearms manufacturer's customer service is that the people answering the phone are not "gun people". They seem indifferent and lack enthusiasm. Their knowledge base is also slim at best. This is a phenomenon that plagues most manufacturers. The first perception that someone gets when they call a gun manufacturer is the person who answers the phone. If they lack enthusiasm and are indifferent, this is not good for the industry as a whole.
I would also like to see more accessories offered with firearms purchases , ie, holsters, extra magazines, NRA membership discounts with every firearm's purchase, etc. Springfield Armory is a good example of a manufacturer who has marketing down to a science and understands the shooting community.
So in summary, Charles Daly, excellent products, but marketing, accessories, and promotion needs to improve and expand.
Welcome aboard and its good to see someone who represents a major manufacturer get involved in the needs of the shooting community.

atblis
January 4, 2008, 11:15 AM
Personally, If I were an importer I wouldn't even think of bringing in a modern 7.62x25 especially if I were offering any sort of warranty on it. I know why everyone wants one. There's a bunch of cheap surplus ammo out there. Imagine offering a lifetime warranty on something that people will be pounding crappy corrosive surplus of questionable quality through.

Any way you guys could take the Tanfoglio pistols away from EAA? Decent pistols, but really crappy company importing/supporting them.

alex_trebek
January 4, 2008, 11:43 AM
Kudos to you Mr. Kassnar for your post. I hope this sets an example for other companies, and I hope you continue to post and participate. It is refreshing to see a company cater to the civilian market, it seems like more and more firearm companies are only concerned with government contracts.

Your actions are greatly influencing my opinon about your company. There is just one problem. While a lot of people seem to be asking for new types of guns, I only ask if you could put more of your product on the shelves here in Indiana.

I may be blind, but I have never once seen a single Charles Daly product in a gun store. I dont know anyone who owns a Charles Daly product, and have never knowingly seen one at the range. The lack of availability makes it hard to consider your product. ;)

I apologize if you already have dealers in Indiana, if your company does where are they located?

SASS#23149
January 4, 2008, 12:14 PM
Welcome to THR,sir!!

It is super refreshing to see this kind of interest in the wants and needs of shooters from a factory owner!

Your ideas of what customer service whould be are over the top,and well appreciated.It will be an expense to your company but the happy customer is a repeat customer,as you know.

again,Welcome aboard.

Diverdave
January 4, 2008, 12:31 PM
Mr. Kassnar,
You are a class act. I have only shot one CD i .45 and fell in love with it. Unfortunately the owner wouldn't sell. I am now for sure in the market for one since your post.

Darkness
January 4, 2008, 01:00 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

First, welcome to the forum.

I have owned 2 CD 1911s in the past. I had the same problem with both of them; a failure to eject. I was impressed with the features and fit of the pistols, but simply could not make it past 2 shots without a stove-pipe or a nose-down slam into the feed ramp.

The commander version I had purchased new, so after my range trip I had returned it to the dealer to get it checked out. All I know is that about 8 working days later he called me back in and said the pistol had been checked thoroughly and nothing was wrong with it, but that it also had been completely cleaned and what-not. Next range trip I had the same thing happen. I ended up trading the CD in on a S&W because the dealer wanted to keep me happy.

My second CD 1911 was an officer size model. I purchased it used, thinking perhaps the commander version I had earlier was a fluke, and because, like I said, I really like the CD features and the way it fit my hand. Same problem with that one as well. The dealer I purchased this one from suggested that perhaps I was limp-wristing the pistol. I explained to him that I primarily shot hot-load .357 and .44 magnum, so doubted that it was lack of control causing the issue, not to mention I have not had the same problem with Colt, Springfield or Norinco. There just must be something different about the CDs.

I know there are a number of people out there who really like their Charles Daly 1911s, and I never try to dissuade anyone from purchasing one. I feel that for the money, the CD is difficult to beat, but I also counsel that the person might want to shoot one first.

I am tempted to try a brand new full-size, though, now that I know there is a person on the forum to which I can tell all my woes! Not positive, but tempted.

BigO01
January 4, 2008, 01:07 PM
Mr. Kassner I greatly appreciate you candor and your offer to repair the gun but , I have the problem almost completely corrected through very slow and careful work on it myself , and it would require some 1 to correctly fit the beavertail to the frame without question because it very very rarely sticks anymore .

You see when it arrived "I purchased it online from a NY dealer" the safety would hang up perhaps 1 out of every 5 or 6 times if I pressed it and let it go . It also had a horribly heavy trigger pull .

One look at the backstrap and it is obvious the frame wasn't relieved enough on the left side for the safeties clearance and that is where it hangs .

I disassembled the weapon and also found the trigger components had quite a few burrs on them where they contacted each other . The sear has a gouge right in the middle where it contacts the hooks on the hammer and its surface was quite rough .

I very very carefully used 400 and 600 wet dry sand paper to work out these burrs as well as to remove some metal from the frame for the safety .

I have spent perhaps 12-15 hours on the gun going slowly since I am not a gunsmith and now have a very nice safe trigger pull "the hammer has never followed the slide down" and the safety is almost 100% functional .

I have also replaced the mainspring housing with an arched one and the mainspring with a 20 lb spring .

I am hesitant to send it in because all it really needs is to have the sear replaced and fitted correctly and slightly more metal removed from the frame .

It is my nightstand weapon and letting it go for a month , well it is something I just don't care to do at this time as that gun has fired 100% of the time , and I am most accurate with it .

How busy is the service dept and when could they have it returned ?

Quite frankly after a little work on it myself I consider that EMS my NEW $500 Colt Commander without all the extra trigger lock garbage to deal with minus a pony on the slide .

The only other auto I had that was 100% WAS a Colt Commander 20 years ago worth $700 then after some extra work on it .

O and I forgot to mention one area your service dept shines is in the people who answer the phones , they have always been polite even if they can't answer a question , unlike the women who Taurus has answering the phone , she will slam people on hold without a word and sounds like you're disturbing her soap operas every time she has to pick up the phone .

Lastly since so many seem to be giving you their "wish" lists how about finding or making a nice copy of the M1A semiauto 308 to offer us for under a grand . Marstars sells one in Canada for under $500 , something even in the $700-800 range would be nice compared to a $1,500 Sprinfield .

bogie
January 4, 2008, 01:13 PM
Oh, and Mike, while you're at it...

That's a pretty 1892 on the home page - do y'all make any "utility" rifles like that? Maybe in stainless? That you could stick behind a pickup seat, and not worry about a lot?

stevemis
January 4, 2008, 01:18 PM
Welcome to THR. I'm thrilled to see your company recognizes customer service and has taken steps to improve it, along with your image.

I do not own any CD products, but I promise to check them out for a future purchase.... based on your participation here alone.

Steve

Fisherman_48768
January 4, 2008, 01:19 PM
Mr. Kassnar
I don't know anyone that shoots a CD because I have always steered them elsewhere after a friend purchased a CD 1911 that was nothing but problems. Right or wrong that one exposure to the line has cost your company big time over the past 4 years. I'm not a dealer nor am I a professional gunsmith any longer but I do considerable consulting with fellow shooters and they do tend to listen to my experiences.
I wish you the best and do appreciate your listening. As another forum member implied, one bad experience influences many for years and is hard to overcome.
John

Deanimator
January 4, 2008, 01:34 PM
Dear Mr. Kassnar:

I view Charles Daly firearms as affordable entry level firearms that don't descend to the "junk gun" level to achieve their prices.

My limited experience with Charles Daly firearms is observation of M1911s owned by other members of my shooting club. The major components (slide, frame and barrel) are of first rate quality, the equal of products significantly more expensive. Things like trigger parts were not so good, having burrs, etc. and requiring afer purchase work. That having been said, they're STILL a good value given that the price of modifying/replacing small parts doesn't equal the price difference between Charles Daly products and more expensive competing products. For somebody interested in having custom pistol built, Charles Daly products make an excellent starting point.

I have heard that Charles Daly has dropped their High Power copy. This is unfortunate, as the Daly HP was one of the most reasonably priced, while maintaining acceptable quality. I think it would be wonderful if Charles Daly could continue to provide a version of the HP and moreso, to be the first manufacturer besides FN Browning to provide a .40 S&W version.

Thank you for your time.

Mac45
January 4, 2008, 01:48 PM
Mr. Kassnar
Good on you for stopping by.
I have nothing against Charles Daly's but I don't own any myself.
However, if you're taking requests, a 1911 in 10mm or a BHP in .40 S&W would make me sit up and take notice real quick. :)
Thanks again for taking the time to listen.

MilsurpShooter
January 4, 2008, 02:01 PM
While I've never had the oppurtunity for a Daly firearm (I'm mainly into the Military Surplus market right now but have been looking at the Uberti Line) just want to say, welcome to The High Road

fluffy
January 4, 2008, 02:23 PM
My only expirence with charles daly is my model 98 zastaya 30-06 I bought used last year.imagine my surprise when fitted with a target scope it will print groups as small as 1/2" @100 yds.It took two whitetails this year,both heart shots at 150 yds.Trigger pull was excellant as purchased .Stock fits me well,although I will get a walnut one one day.I am very satisfied with my purchase.In fact,I have been looking out on forum classified for another.

Tim K
January 4, 2008, 05:43 PM
I have no personal experience with CD firearms, but if I may, I'd like to put in a request for a 1911 chambered in .22LR. To my knowledge, Kimber is the only manufacturer of such an item, and I for one would be interested in one from someone else.

You have my respect for taking this approach to customer complaints. Good luck!

Evenflo76
January 4, 2008, 05:52 PM
Charles Daly, Thanks for your interest! I say this as a consumer. I do not own, and have never even handled any Charles Daly firearms. I have been to you website many times and considered your products for purchase. That being said, I would also like you to know that I belong to many discussion forums in addition to this. Not just for firearms, but also for motorcycles and other products available to us.

I do appreciate your concern though. While it may be true that others in your position, regardless of the product, pay attention to online discussion forums such as this. You deserve a big pat on the back for putting yourself in the public eye in such a way to show appreciation and concern for your customers. I only wish that more product representatives/marketing folks and in your case, company Executives would do just the same.

Happy New Year, Joe
:D


P.S. I am now a lot more interested in your products.

Technosavant
January 4, 2008, 06:43 PM
Technosavant, thanks for your post. If there are other gun companies that do pay freight in both directions, I stand corrected. I was not aware that S&W or Springfield did that.

Do they publish that policy or do you have to ask/push for it?

To my knowledge, neither publishes it. S&W seems to imply they might cover shipping from their web site. I did ask about the shipping when I needed work done on a SA 1911 (and they gave me the FedEx account number to use), but S&W is reported to automatically send out a shipping tag for warranty work (never needed it).

Again, I appreciate your willingness to engage in dialog with the firearms community. We could use more of that.

VirgilCaine
January 4, 2008, 07:06 PM
3. A M1 carbine that is as good as the orginal military ones.

And doesn't cost $1000. Also, a Thompson clone that doesn't cost $1000 (and can ) would be nice.

But a top-break revolver in a modern, non-rimfire caliber would be nice, also.

steak-knife
January 4, 2008, 07:26 PM
Michael Kassnar

I have not had an opportunity to really deal with your customer service on the most part because my Charles Daly Hi-Power has yet to fail me yet. It is one of my favorite range guns, and I truly believe that I got my monies worth.

I've been hearing that your Hi-Power will no longer be made, and that's a darn shame. However, if there's any chance you could release the hard chrome version of the Hi-Power, I would certainly buy at least one.

Also, on rifles, is there any chance you could import the BRNO ZKM-611? There seems to be a serious lack of quality .22 Mag semi-autos on the U.S. market.

I'm also impressed that you would take the time to participate in this forum.

Keep up the good work.

TCB in TN
January 4, 2008, 07:41 PM
I have known very little about CD products and have passed on what looked to be a couple of decent deals on them because I didn't know much about their rep. After reading this thread and seeing what certainly looks like a serious commitment towards meeting the needs of the customer, I will NOT pass up another deal on one. Mr. Kassnar thank you for coming here and letting us know more about your company.

yullose
January 4, 2008, 08:02 PM
My only experience with a Charles Daly firearm lasted about 30 minutes... most of which was spent filling out the 4473, PA State Police form and doing a background check.

After that was out of the way, I proudly took my brand new Charles Daly 1911 to the gun store's indoor shooting range for a test drive.

Halfway into mag #2, I was stunned to see parts laying on the floor and shooting bench. Spring, detent, ambi-safety assy, etc... I didn't know what fell off or what was lost...
I unloaded the remaining rounds by hand and marched the gun (along with whatever loose pieces fell off) back up to the gun counter.

I then picked out a new Beretta 92FS and never looked back. The dealer just shredded the 1911 paperwork and we re-did new paperwork on the Beretta.

I wanted nothing to do with that 1911. I've NEVER had a gun literally "fall-apart" in my hands before... and I've owned a LOT of guns in the last 10+ years or so.... Probably 40-50 different handguns and 100+ rifles.

The ONLY other brand of guns I've owned that came close to being on the same level of junk I held in my hands that day were made by Professional Ordnance... That's a whole nuther can of worms I don't want to open.

CB900F
January 4, 2008, 08:21 PM
Mr. Kassner;

Last year, 2007, I called KBI & got the voice mail of a marketing person, I'm sorry I do not recall the name at this time. I requested to know how many left hand bolt mini-Mausers KBI had imported from Zastava. I've never recieved a reply.

It's my belief that that information could very well materialy affect the collectability of the LHB .223's that were imported under the Charles Daly name. I'm supposing that the number is rather small as these things go in the firearms market of America.

Would you care to comment?

900F

Il Duca
January 4, 2008, 08:35 PM
I have to say, this is a great move on your part. Not only do you get to correct any problems we may have but you also get feedback on what we would like to see from your company. Terrific. While I don't currently own any CD firearms (I used to have an HP but like a fool traded it off) I certainly would if there were an affordable double rifle in the future, say in one of the safari rounds (9.3, .375, .458, etc.)

Good on 'ya man for taking the time to see what's going on with your customers.

Charles Daly
January 4, 2008, 08:52 PM
WOW! Less than 24 hours since my last post and I've got 2 pages of posts to resond to!

First I want to thank everyone for taking the time to post, both your compliments and your complaints. It's nice to hear the compliments but also good to hear the complaints as these will help me to direct our company to do a better job in the future.

I am going to do my best to answer each one of you and will do it in stages.

White Horseradish: I will get the dovetail dimensions for you. These should be in our FAQ and will update that page with this kind of information.

Kman: There are a great number of firearms that are available to import. However, the key question that has to be answered for our company is whether or not there is a sufficient market for a particular model and whether or not we can make a sufficient profit to make importing it worth the time and expense of doing so. I don't think I could compile such a list but let me think about it and perhaps I can give it the old college try.

Number 6: We realize there are a number of AR barrel profiles that people want; the same with the need to produce a middy. We are just getting started in this market segment and we needed to limit the number of builds we could offer in the beginning stages of this project. I can say that if we are succcessful in establishing ourselves in the AR market we will expand the number of models and options that we offer.

Kermit 315: I am sorry to hear that Big-5 published the incorrect pump picture in their advertisement. We do make the one pictured but that is not the one Big-5 purchased. If you would like your crooked front sight fixed let me know by PM. We would be happy to do that for you.

Kman: As to difficulty in chambering Winchester 3-1/2" shells in our Maxi-Mag pump; would you please PM me your contact details (phone or email) and I will have one of our gunsmiths call or email you on this issue. The great variation in actual cartridge lengths can cause feeding issues, particularly with 3-1/2" shells.

MICHAEL T: Currently our Government sized 1911 is available only with the front slide serrations. Our Commander and Officer sized guns do not have this feature. We have plans for a basic "Mil-Spec" model in the future, perhaps by the end of this year. As to the "billboard" nature of our brand on the slide, I agree with you and future production (2nd half of 2008) this will be toned down a bit.

bfox: Please PM me your contact details (full name, address, phone and email) and I will have our service department issue a Call Tag to get your gun back to us for service. In answer to your question as to whether or not we are still bringing in our 1911's, the short answer is yes. There was an interruption in deliveries for several months but that situation is now resolved. In fact, we should have a new shipment of Government sized blued guns in just a few weeks.

Big Boomer: Thank you for your considered response. You raise many good points. As soon as I get back in the office Monday morning I intend to hold a general staff meeting, then a meeting of the Customer Service Department and gunsmiths, and finally a meeting of the marketing staff. Several of the comments you've made will be addressed in these meetings. I can tell you that we will be adopting as policy some of your suggestions.

hobbeeman: We must get extra mags for the DDA. As we are still buying from Bul (the Daly M-5) we should be able to get them. Please PM me your email and I will let you know what we can do for you. As to our warranty, currently it is to the original owner only. I can't promise you a change in policy on this one but I will study the issue and consider it.

Gentlemen, I will respond to the addtional posts shortly.

Keep 'em coming! This is all good! And thanks again, really, to all of you,
Michael

jerkface11
January 4, 2008, 09:00 PM
Did you see my response about the shotgun? I'd prefer SBS but will take an OU but it needs to be lighter than the kahn.

solvability
January 4, 2008, 09:15 PM
Mr. Kassner,

Thank you so much for coming on board.

I have one of your .22 rifles that I bought to teach my kids to shoot - it is remarkably accurate and a well made rifle. I emailed the company about an extra magazine, but never got a reply - if that sort of thing was available to order from the web site it would be mighty nice.

I have longed for a Double Rifle - 45-70 side by side, please. It woud be excellent for boar hunting.

Jim

orionengnr
January 4, 2008, 09:27 PM
I believe that we are the only firearms company in the US that pays freight in both directions on repairs. That is, all you have to do is call us, email us or fax us, and we will contact you and then issue a FedEx call tag to pick up your firearm on our dime.

Sir, I believe you are mistaken. Smith and Wesson will issue a FedEx tag to pick up an S&W. They will fix it free of charge and return it free of charge. This has been the case for quite some time, an is not necessaily limited to the original buyer.

My only experience wih a Charles Daly was a 3 1/2" 1911, and it would not go through a magazine without a malfunction. I posted on 1911.com, and the Daly rep responded with an offer to sell me a recoil spring set.

Gee, thanks.

I replaced springs, which did nothing. I "tuned" the extractor, which helped quite a bit, getting me to the point where I only had a misfeed every two or three mags.

I sold the pistol shortly thereafter to a guy whose father-in-law was a gunsmith. I gave him full disclosure of what he was getting himself into. I also took a loss on the sale, no surprise and no regrets. My integrity is worth more than a few bucks.

However, as a result of this experience, I am done with Charles Daly products. Sorry, but you get one chance to make it right. Screw it up, and I move on. My experience with Taurus and Kel-Tec led me to the same conclusion.

Hope you can get it together, but I have already moved on.

dleong
January 4, 2008, 09:34 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

Thank you for taking the time to solicit feedback on how to improve CD's customer service.

I recently purchsed a CZ999/ZDA from CDNN and shot it for the very first time last week. The ZDA is very, very accurate; in fact, here's the target from my very first four shots with the ZDA at 24 yards (72 feet), offhand:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t194/screwthepap3/th_CZ999_03.jpg (http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t194/screwthepap3/CZ999_03.jpg)

Yup, the ZDA's a keeper.

However, I noticed one relatively minor annoyance with the ZDA: the "Low Shot Indicator" pin in the top right grip screw. It was sharp enough to draw blood from my shooting hand's index finger when it protruded through the grip screw on the third remaining round and the gun was fired.

I called up CD's service department and spoke with a very amiable gentleman to request a normal grip screw to replace the one with the LSI, but he indicated that CD no longer carried spare parts for the ZDA, as the gun was not being imported anymore.

Is there any way for me to acquire a regular grip screw for my ZDA?

Thanks in advance!


DL

eliphalet
January 4, 2008, 09:34 PM
I just want to say Welcome to THR and I was in the process of saving for a mini Mauser action and the Big Greenie stole the line from you. I still have a line on a 223 bolt face versionStill upset at myself for not buying one in Left Hand when I had the chance.

Thank You Michael

This will have me taking a much harder look at your company's products in the future.

redactor
January 4, 2008, 09:36 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

Thank you for taking time out of your schedule to speak with us. I can't imagine the number of guns you just sold by stopping by, but I expect it will be quite a few.

I recently acquired one of your FAIS/Sabatti O/U shotguns used from my local shop. It is light, swings well, and I simply could not have afforded any other Italian O/U. It looks pretty old and well-worn, but a month ago I took my first game (pheasants) with it. Needless to say, I'm keeping it. I have noticed a lack of spare parts on the market for it however. Any chance on that front?

I second the motions of importing the IAI Enfield clones and cost-effective 922(r) compliant M14 clones.

I'd also like to forward the idea of bolt-action rifles in "World Classic" calibers that we don't often see in newer rifles like .303 British, 300 H&H, 6.5x55 Swede, 7.5x55 Swiss, and 7.62x54R. I don't know if we need any of those, but I'd love to see them... especially the old British sporting cartridges... As I understand it, the .303 Brit is the 7th most popular sporting cartridge in the US, which is surprising that no sporting arm in the US has been made for that cartridge in the US since 1935! Other than me, I'm not sure what the market would be, but I'd love to see it.

Again, thanks for your time, we're all pleased to see you here.

OAKVILLE SHOOTER
January 4, 2008, 09:53 PM
jerkface11
Here a links to the three 28 guage shotguns found by doing a search on CD's website. Looks like 2 semi-autos and an O/U. The third link is the O/U and it weighs 6.2 pounds. Looks like a nice gun.

http://www.charlesdaly.com/HTML/products/firearms/shotguns/SemiAuto/safield.asp
http://www.charlesdaly.com/HTML/products/firearms/shotguns/SemiAuto/sasuperior.asp
http://www.charlesdaly.com/html/products/firearms/shotguns/OU/106/106.asp


Oakville Shooter

Ohen Cepel
January 4, 2008, 09:55 PM
Great to "see" you here!

I have passed by CD arms in the past. However, will truly re-consider that now.

I will be on the hunt for one of your HP's now and will re-look the entire line.

In today's market place I put a lot into a man's word and customer service!

Thanks again for taking the time to be here.

Charles Daly
January 4, 2008, 10:10 PM
More collective responses:

asknigh7: Sorry, but our Lifetime Repair Policy is only on Charles Daly branded firearms. Having said that, do you need service on your FEG PMK-380? We should still have some parts on hand even though we haven't sold this model in a long time. Let me know and I'll try and help you out.

reddogIII: I sincerely apologize for the way you were treated. Regardless of the scenario involved with your repair, the manager should not have argued with you. (That manager is no longer with the company.) Having said that, I can tell you that it would not be the first time that we have performed service on a firearm only to find out that when it got back into the consumer's hands that it still did not function properly for the consumer. The consumer's reaction at this point is usually an accusation (as you stated in your post) that my service department "didn't do anything".

I can assure you that we never "do nothing" with any gun we service. All guns that pass through our gunsmiths hands are serviced and test fired before being returned to the consumer. More often than not, at this point in such a scenario, further investigation should have occurred, particularly into the cartridges that were being used. Our service department maintains an inventory of hundreds of different shotgun shell brands so that we can test with any load that a consumer says is not functioning in his shotgun. It is our policy to test fire with the consumer's brand wherever possible in order to try and replicate the problem. If we test fire without knowing the brand you were using, (and we usually test fire with several different brands), and we do not have a functional problem, the gun is deemed in working order and returned to the consumer. I do not know the specifics of the test firing of your shotgun but I can guarantee you that it left our facility in working condition.

Unfortunately, our Manager developed an attitude with you and that was wrong. This is where the process broke down. This is why we intend to improve the process and insure that this type of outcome does not happen again in our service department.

I can assure you the gun was not a "POS". The procedure was!

Dakotasin: See my earlier reply to Number 6 re: different barrels for our AR's. For your reference, all of our receivers are forged from 7075-T6 aluminum alloy, per mil-spec.

Buck Nekkid: I believe that Pietta's 1873 revolvers are every bit as good as Uberti's Cattleman, and in many cases, much better. Were you borrowing a Charles Daly revolver or a Liberty? FYI, they cannot be made at a significantly lower cost than Uberti and still maintain and semblance of reliability, safety and quality.

As far as Zastava firearms (pistols) are concerned, EAA is now importing what was our ZDA (CZ999). After this manufacturer screwed us royally with the Mauser rifles, we would never do business with them again with just this one pistol (Model 57). We should build up the market for Zastava for another product just so they can screw us again? (Also the reason we stopped sellling the ZDA.) No thank you. Perhaps EAA can help you on this one.

pete F: Sorry Pete, but we do not support Miroku Daly's. We do have some parts for Daly's that were made in Italy from the mid-70's to the mid-80's. Generally, we support Daly guns that were imported and sold by our company (KBI). KBI acquired Charles Daly in 1997. Our Liftime Repair Policy went into effect in September of 2001.

Hellion Productions: We are well familiar with the Australian AIA M-10 Enfield type rifles. They have visited us on several occassions. We could "seal the deal" on this one if we wanted to, but have hesitated to do so based on our uncertainty over the volume we could do with these rifles. They are very well made though!

That's it for tonight gang. More responses will come tomorrow evening.

akodo
January 4, 2008, 10:12 PM
Mr. Kassner, welcome to THR.

I have not owned any of your products. However, upon reading your opening message my first two thoughts were "Wow, I've been kinda getting the bug for a new gun, that kind of commitment is great, I should check out what they have!" my second thought was "Hey, that friend at work who is thinking about buying his first handgun, the guy who was an MP in army in the early 1980's and hence is attracted to the 1911, but wants a reasonably priced one, I should mention Charles Daly to him"

I think simply by engaging this community you can start to build a lot of good will.

Truth be told, before this, Charles Daly was a name I glossed over. When a different co-worker about 2 years ago told me his son bought him a new shotgun for christmas, a semi-auto Charles Daly, and said "I never heard of them, you know anything?" I replied "Oh they make okay stuff, it's got to be a lot better than that old Coast to Coast pump you had!" but my real though was "huh, nice of your kid to buy you a shotgun, but he must have gone for the cheapest semi-auto they had, he should have gotten something more reputable"

That is the attitude of most people I know. CD is simply Meh. Some people will always want a $1000 shotgun for $400, and rather than complain about actually paying $1000 to them a huge amount, they instead spend $400 an complain about it's shortcomings.

Your guns are what they are, at each grade level.

Still, in the area of customer service, I have had some bad experiences with other companies. See, this is how I look at it. However poor or excellent the fit and finish, I expect the gun to work. Due to laws, I cannot buy a gun, find out this particular specimine doesn't work, and then go exchange it for a different specimine. If I buy a $600 grill at Target, and that specimine has a flaw, I expect to be able to walk in and replace it RIGHT NOW. I am much more forgiving of service on a firearm I have had, or any item I have had for 10+ years, a lifetime warranty is great if I break an old gun. But my true anger and what will ruin a relationship between me and a manufacturer is how they handle a NEW gun that doesn't work right, be it convered under a one year warranty or a lifetime warranty.

See, when your new gun fails, as opposed to the grill, at best you are going to be looking at a 3-5 week period where you paid for an item and aren't able to use it. Plus, for me at least, it costs money to go play with my new toy, range fees, and ammo fees, and gas. Bringing your new gun to the range and having it fail basically ruins $20, add to that the hassle of shipping it back. Finally, once it is returned, it must be tested, hence that is a whole second range trip, not for fun, not for practice, not to incease your skills, but simply to test if the factory really fixed it right or not.'

If it is an old gun "Yep sir, well pay shipping both ways and fix it, it may take about a month" is great. But if it is a new gun it should be "I am so sorry sir. I am sorry you have to be out the use of the gun for so long. I am also sorry that this ruined your range trip, and I am sorry you had to drive way to the other side of town as the fedex shops in the stripmall won't accept firearms shipments, etc."

I'd like to see two things. I'd like to see some way (for example: including a dated receipt, a way to contact the seller so he can check his books etc) to determine if the gun is less than a year old. If a gun that is 'brand new' has problems, I think the manfuacturer (or importer) should send the guy a voucher for $20 in ammo or something along with an appology.

After all, pay $400 and get Item X now may be a good deal and you accept it, however pay $400 and get Item X a month from now, that is not acceptable. There has got to be a reason I am going to be seperated from my cash for that long before I actually get my product. In the case of 'preorders' hey that is fine, I am sacrificing access to my money to avoid the chance of supplies running out and not getting a copy right away, or having to spend more to pay 'scalper's prices'.

You just cannot believe the foul taste it leaves in my mouth when I bring a gun home and it has problems. I can't care less about a lifetime warranty (okay that is a lie, I prefer lifetime warranty to 1 year warranties) how I judge a company is how well it rights a wrong, and selling me defective merchandise is wrong. Most companies can set that wrong right by IMMEDIATELY replacing it. Gun companies can't. They must find some other way to make it right.

yullose
January 4, 2008, 10:15 PM
It is my opinion (as impractical as it may be) that EVERY SINGLE FIREARM should be TEST FIRED at the factory with typical store bought, off the shelf ammo. Not just two or three rounds, but 50. Not some fancy, special order Military/NATO spec ammo, but common store bought Walmart gun counter ammo... because THIS is where 99% of your gun customers are buying ammo.
This would quickly weed-out the problem guns before they ever get into the hands of the consumer.
Add the cost of a box of ammo to the cost of the new gun.
I'd GLADLY pay the extra $30 to know the $600 gun I'm buying will at least get thru a box of ammo without jamming.

Like was already mentioned, the internet has tipped the playing field BIGTIME.
There are no more secrets or isolated incidents.

One pi$$ed-off gun owner with a bad "new gun experience" can alienate hundreds, maybe thousands of potential gun buyers.

What does the average consumer sometimes do before committing to a purchase ?

They search the internet.

If they Google "Charles Daly" and find a few forums with complaints related to your firearms, guess what ? You just lost his business for life.... along with a bunch of other internet saavy consumers that Googled the same thing.

Try it for yourself... and see what the gun buyer sees. ;)

Also, I think it was a wise move, getting into the AR15 market.

In my opinion, there are two groups of gun owners.

There are:

A) Shooters/enthusiasts... who look at guns as fun... a toy, a hobby. They tend to buy/sell/rotate guns often. They spend money on new guns like wives buy new shoes.

B) Hunters... Who look at guns as tools. Tools that need sharpening once a year at the local sportsman's club. Tools they own for life... like the set of Craftsmen wrenches you inherited when your Dad passed away. They never go bad and they never grow bored with these tools.


As currently saturated as the AR15 market is, people are still buying them like shoes and buying them often.

I think you are heading in the right direction.

littlegator
January 4, 2008, 10:18 PM
Service like this is HUGE to me. Thank you, excellent work. Though I don't have a CD, I am in the market for a 1911 and will be putting CD on top of the list. I would like the front serrations to go away on the full size though. End of '08? It's going to be hard to wait... :)
Oh, and since I live in Vegas, I'll be seeing you at SHOT hopefully.

taliv
January 4, 2008, 10:25 PM
Michael, great to see you doing this.

It's also interesting to see you coming out with an AR15. I would encourage you (in your free time :) ) to go read this thread: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
You can see what some discriminating users are looking for. It might help you tailor your marketing material a bit. (and your product choices as well)


Also, I would suggest that if you're not familiar with the concept of an internet forum "group buy", that you check out the group buy forum in the "trading post" section. A group buy deal on your upcoming AR15 might be a heckuva way to kick off such a product and leverage the momentum you've built in this thread.

Charles Daly
January 4, 2008, 10:32 PM
I know others are in line but I had to respond to this post before going to bed!

I have spent a lot of time lurking and studying on M4carbine.net and ar15.com. I am well familiar with the chart and where we expect to fall on it (between Noveske and S&W I think) with our D-M4LE. Grant and I have corresponded and I will be getting this model to him for T&E as soon as they are available (early February, right after SHOT)!

I will study the GB suggestion and see what we can put together. Sounds like a great idea!

yullose
January 4, 2008, 10:33 PM
Also, I failed to mention in my two previous replies.

AR15.com is a HUGE website that can make or break a company. Use it to your advantage as well.

They single-handedly ran Jim Zumbo's career (with Outdoor Life magazine) into the ground after he demonized the beloved AR15.

Also, the "Employment" tab on your website does not function. ;)

Dustinthewind
January 4, 2008, 10:38 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

I have no experience with Charles Daly firearms and so have no complaints. However I would like to commend you for resurrecting the idea that quality and customer service are KING. In by-gone days this is what sold products. Hopefully you will be setting a new trend. :)

Ohen Cepel
January 4, 2008, 10:41 PM
I think the Group Buy would be a great idea!

Some things I would think could do well:
9mm carbine or rifle that takes "common" mags (ie; Beretta 92 or Glock),
a 10mm pistol, hard core following for the cal but not many guns available,
as mentioned 7.62-25 pistol or a carbine that would take the Russian drum mags that are out now:evil:

I also think a great opportunity would be to do a Hk 91 clone, tons of mags out there now and few new rifles for them.

Also, a PC rifle in .223 that took AR mags could be a good selling.

I checked your website and was glad to see that you still had HP's for sale and that CDNN is running a good sale on them now! An all metal pistol for that price that takes mags I already have is hard to beat! Maybe more options on that pistol would do well, two-tone, stainless, etc. You already have it going so adding to it shouldn't be that bad.

taliv
January 4, 2008, 10:52 PM
I will study the GB suggestion and see what we can put together. Sounds like a great idea!

if I could be a bit more specific about the formula for success:

great price + unique product

usually, "unique product" means some special run where you engrave something like "The High Road" or "Molon Labe" on the side of the magwell, or offer the rifle with a feature or in a color not normally available from the factory (hint: multicam)

I'm not sure about the finance rules, but doing something like a "Ron Paul Revolution" logo on the side of the magwell and donating a portion of the proceeds might spice up life around here.

I'm just sayin'


(and yes, I know putting 'revolution' on the side of an evil black rifle is likely to get us on the evening news...)

Galil5.56
January 4, 2008, 10:57 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

Around the middle of Sept 07, I sent my week old 9mm ZDA back to CD after speaking with "Brad" for warranty repair of a very serious trigger issue that can be seen here:

http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc257/JF1966/?action=view&current=ea9b0882.flv

http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc257/JF1966/?action=view&current=9333d7e5.flv

Notice the hammer does not fall after the very loud clunk?

These video's were sent on a disk along with a very clear and concise description of the problem with the pistol in order to get the best possible repair. Gun came back saying that no problem could be found, and that was it. Gun continued to do the exact same thing, and on top of that, one of the levers was scuffed during its stay at CD. I faxed your department telling them about the non-fixed issue, and the scuff, and as of today months later have heard nothing.

I was lucky that I could return the pistol, and ended up paying $50 to ship it back to the dealer for refund all because of poor repairs and poor service on the part of CD. I liked the pistol a lot, and really wanted to keep it. I was offered another in exchange but there was no way after what I experienced. Lifetime warranty was the main reason I took a chance with this pistol, and look what it got me? How valuable is a lifetime warranty where only on paper it seems valid? I'm still ticked that I am out $50 for issues out of my control by just being a customer, and how I was treated.

Few other thoughts:

How is it that other than magazines, I was told that there are no parts available for a pistol (ZDA) that was introduced two years earlier? I like to maintain my guns, and not having even the most basic maintenance parts is not good. Heck, you can order almost every part aside from the frame for a 92/96 Beretta online right from the Beretta site. Poor parts support is one of the reasons why many people, myself included shy away from anything but main stream brands.

I really wish the CD practice of using the gun as a CD billboard would stop. In my opinion it looks bad, and greatly detracts from the gun.

I do commend you for using a prepaid shipping label for warranty service.

The lack of an active email address in today's world is unacceptable IMO.

If you like Mr. Kassnar, I can email/PM you documents pertinent to my ZDA experience in the hopes that they will help improve CD... Who knows, if a marked change happens at CD, I may once again be a customer.

Thank you,

taliv
January 4, 2008, 10:58 PM
on a totally unrelated note: you don't have any plans to sell your company to Cerberus, eh?


if you do, can you at least get them to put you in charge of customer service?

craigs380
January 4, 2008, 11:00 PM
Mr. Kassner. First let me say I appreciate your support of your products. It is nice to see someone interested in the product they sell. Any mechanical assembly can have problems and will need to be serviced, repaired, or sometimes replaced. The consumer has been spoiled by the no questions asked returns and replacement policies of the large companies. I do believe that when a product is returned for a problem it should be fixed or replaced the first time. If repairs are done they should be tested thoroughly before they are returned to the purchaser. Problem guns could be refurbished and resold as such. Thats my $0.02 worth on that subject.

Now here is my wish list;

The Zastava Model 57 LUX in 7.62 X 25 mentioned earlier in the thread. I have seen this requested in CZFORUM.COM in the CZ52/curio&relic section. I would also be interested in a 38 Super/9 X 23 version. Also a reliable compact version similar to a CZ Rami for concealed carry.

In the same vein a gas operated 7.62 X 25 upper for the AR-15 platform.

A durable and reliable 10mm Auto pistol platform. There is constant interest in the 10mmtalk.com forumns.

Thank you!

iwilc2
January 4, 2008, 11:03 PM
Mr Kassner, Welcome to the group, i am fairly new here also, just wanted to let you know that i bought one of your CD High powers and i think that this is a very good gun, i am very impressed with it, it is nice to know that if i ever have a problem with it i am sure it will be handled profesionally. Len

jerkface11
January 4, 2008, 11:18 PM
That looks like just the gun I want. It's more attractive than the mossberg and lighter too. Even takes choke tubes. Now I just have to find someone to order it.

manyskunks
January 4, 2008, 11:30 PM
Mr. Kassner;
I am looking forward to your PM. I REALLY like the CD 1911 ECS!!!! The weight is right and, as I said it groups beautifully. It is a fine product and all of them I have seen at the gun shop, Rocky Mtn. Discount Sports in Riverton, Wy. have been well polished and the fit and finish have been as good as any of the S&W firearms that I have seen in the past few years.
I have an occasional stovepipe or failure to feed but, I think that is just magazine problems. I have several magazines other than the two that came with the gun, so there are some differences. Actually, when I get back to you after your PM I also need to find out what your mags cost, I might want to get a few more. They seem to feed reliably.
Kudos to you and Charles Daly for listening to the complaints as well as the good things. It's too bad more manufacturers/importers/wholesalers/retailers don't do the same. I think that if they did, products, services and sales would be much better. Thanks again!!
MS

stevereno1
January 4, 2008, 11:45 PM
Your shotguns seem to be "feild grade" at best. Why not try a nicer shotgun with some quality wood, and go head-to head with remington? I am a manager for the big seller of your shotguns, and I find that your shotguns hamper with your reputation for your pistols. A little more craftsmanship is worth the price.

DANGERRUSS
January 5, 2008, 12:24 AM
Dear Sir,
Welcome to the board. I have owned in the past a pistol imported by you company and was very well served.
A previous post asked about a "non sporting type" shotgun and you replied that it could only have 5 rds max. Could you make your shotgun to be able to use tube extensions from say a 870 or mossy? And if it could use replacment stocks I would say sign me up.
Thanks Russ

BullsEye10x
January 5, 2008, 01:04 AM
Mr. Kassnar,
Welcome to THR! I respect your efforts to better CD's customer service and relations. Although I have never owned any of your products, I've handled a few whenever I come across them. I also considered buying the HP model. With the reassurance your posts have given me, I will probably get one soon!

denfoote
January 5, 2008, 05:06 AM
I understand you are discontinuing the BHP.
Is there any truth to this??
Also, are you going to make/import an inexpensive tactical shotgun sutible for home/apartment defense??

denfoote
January 5, 2008, 05:13 AM
never mind.
I found it, the shotty, that is!!

FotoTomas
January 5, 2008, 06:45 AM
I have one problem only with the majority of Charles Daly handguns I have seen lately. Billboard sized rollmarks. I have "not" purchased several of your products due to the (in my opinion) overly large rollmarks. My pet peeve and my problem BUT it has cost you at least two sales and quite possibly my issue has cost me some intimate time with a quality firearm. Que sera sera.

simmonsguns
January 5, 2008, 08:02 AM
Simmons Gun Repair is the largest firearm repair shop not owned by a firearms maker.
We also sell new and used firearms and Charles Daily is one of our best sellers.
In the past 2 or 3 years i have only had 2 field model 12 gauge shotguns that had to go back to CD because of damage not repairable by us.
The locking block issue has been worked out and the firing pins are much better now, overall the guns have evolved into good working shotguns.
3 of us own CD shotguns and have used them for duck and goose hunting for years, that said they have gone through some bad conditions and rough hunting without an issue.
Having a chance to let you know what i think is good, everybody having a chance to let you know what they think is priceless, good move on your part.
We can also help you build one or two new gun lines if you need it.


Thank you, Paul Salchow, VPR&D Simmons.

Eric F
January 5, 2008, 08:21 AM
Charles Daly
Hi I just have a few thoughts for you............
Let me start by saying this is a huge plus in my book for you to come out and talk with the public on a semi individual basis it goes really far for me.
I have not read this whole thread so if this is a repeat I am sorry. I think the bulk of the problem with the entire CD line up is that some of the early 1911 pistols were of poor craftsmanship. I personaly have seen 2 diffrent early production pistols that had multiple problems ranging to improperly adjusted extractor to unmatched barrel to feed ramp and some finishing issues. All of which were easily fixed. However with 2 out of 5 that came through the shop like that I can only assume that others had the same issues.
With poor construction like that the word quickly spred that CD is junk. Then rumors start to fly and things snowball. Lately the 1911 line up has been great I have only seen 1 that had some issues but the problems were most likely owner abuse. I have read that the 1911 line up is now being done by RIA/Armscor I own an RIA and it is great I have never had a problem so I beleive the new productions guns will be fine.
So with a rough begening it is difficult to change a reputation however through consistant good manufacturing I think you will be ok. I thank you for your low prices and quality guns but I wish I could find more information on your sharps line up.
Thanks for your time.

jrfoxx
January 5, 2008, 10:48 AM
I don't have any CD products, but I am glad to see a factory rep eager to engage the community, and I commend you for it.

Agreed.I think doing this says A LOT for your company and how you feel about your customers.ts very refeshing and encouraging to see a company doing this.Also, I think you made a VERY wise decision to utilize gun forums to get your input.Definitely a great way to hear from from LOTS of "average Joe" customers.

panther22
January 5, 2008, 11:02 AM
I just wanted to add my respect to you for joining in an open forum and sharing with us.
You have offered some fine guns to the gun buying public and we appreciate all you do.
As gun prices, and ammo prices, continue to climb, a company that offers us a good choice at a reasonable price is a welcome friend.
I hope you can continue to bring us fine guns from all over the world for many years to come.
Since we're talking about it, I see that a distributor in Canada is offering semi-auto only versions of the German grease gun from WW2. Any chance that these would ever be available in the US?

AirForceShooter
January 5, 2008, 11:34 AM
I have your Hi-Power and it's fantastic and so far works quite well.
But, what's with the warrantee being voided if I pull the maag safety? Yeah, I pulled it. Improves the trigger a lot.
I can't figure that out. It's not as if I changed parts or something like that.

AFS

TCB in TN
January 5, 2008, 11:47 AM
Mr. Kassner,

With Remington's recent acquisition of Marlin leaving many lever gun fans in a state of unease I think this might be a good time for another company to enter the lever gun market. Further more I know of a lot of folks just getting into lever guns with the advent of the Leverevolution ammo which gives the average lever gun better range. I have thought that a less expensive version of the Browning BLR or similar designed rifle, mag fed, but with field grade wood or synthetic stocks, capable of firing pointed tipped ammo in a couple of stock caliburs such as .308, 30-06, .243, and .223 would be a popular weapon, combining the handling of the lever gun with the better ballistics and wide availability of pointed tip bullets. Your price point would be around the same as the new Marlin 336 somewhere around the $350-A$375 mark. That would give those folks who have in the past bought the starter level bolt guns another option as well. I don't know if it is viable from a mfg standpoint, but I would be willing to bet that you would see a real market for the rifle.

BOONER
January 5, 2008, 11:47 AM
Mr. Kassnar,
I would be interested in Running one of your carbine's for a T&E gun in my school for a season of training/competing.

I have a very busy line up this year with trainers
Dave harrington
vtac
LMS
vickers
and others.
this gun will get a work out

SuperNaut
January 5, 2008, 11:47 AM
I did tech-support for 7 years so I'm impressed that Mr. Kassnar would jump in here. Web-based tech support is the hardest of all IMHO. I do think he needs to go over to the 1911 forums, lotsa bad feelings over there.

That said, he also needs a weekend.

VirgilCaine
January 5, 2008, 12:56 PM
I don't know if it is viable from a mfg standpoint, but I would be willing to bet that you would see a real market for the rifle.

Winchester made lots of rifles in 7.62 x 54R with a fixed box magazine. They might not be able to do detachable magazines, but a fixed box mag would certainly be possible.
It's definitely a fairly unique product, so there's the novelty of it. Large-capacity magazines might be cool.

RockyMtnTactical
January 5, 2008, 02:17 PM
I am impressed that the president of a company would care enough to ask on an open forum like this. Improves my opinion of you guys.

That said, my only experience with CD firearms is a 20ga shotgun that my brother purchased a while back. He has been very happy with it's light weight and functionality. So have I.

I have also heard that CD will soon be involved with AR15's. Being an AR15 kind of guy, I am eager to learn more about those...

TCB in TN
January 5, 2008, 04:11 PM
Winchester made lots of rifles in 7.62 x 54R with a fixed box magazine. They might not be able to do detachable magazines, but a fixed box mag would certainly be possible.
It's definitely a fairly unique product, so there's the novelty of it. Large-capacity magazines might be cool.

I have shot a few of those old Winchesters and they were good old guns, but there are two main reasons why Marlin put out so many 30-30 lever guns, the first goes back to need. The vast majority of folks felt the 30-30 lever gun had enough range for their needs, and the gun was was nice gun for the money.

Now more folks are shooting bolt rifles because they want to be able to take the longer shot if needed. Many people I know like lever guns but are not willing to put out the $600+ dollars needed to get a Browning BLR or old WInchester lever gun, when they can get a 30-06, or similar bolt rifle in the $300- $400 range. Even many of the real bolt gun folks I know like the handling of a lever rifle, most are just not willing to give up the extended range that a bolt rifle gives them. Give them a reasonably in-expensive lever rifle alternative to that bolt rifle and I think it will show to be more than just a novelty, and yes if your design allows for an extended -high capacity mag then you will certainly draw even more attention.

statelineblues
January 5, 2008, 04:59 PM
Hellion Productions: We are well familiar with the Australian AIA M-10 Enfield type rifles. They have visited us on several occassions. We could "seal the deal" on this one if we wanted to, but have hesitated to do so based on our uncertainty over the volume we could do with these rifles. They are very well made though!

If you do import them, you have at least one confirmed sale (AIA M10 No.4 mk.IV and the AIA M10 B2 Match) - me!:D

I don't have any experience with CD products, but I do own a Rock Island Armory 1911A1 Compact .45 - this is my CCW gun (replacing my Colt Combat Commander, which now resides in my safe). It was extremely accurate right out of the box! I'm not sure if your company's 1911s are made by the same manufacturer, but I will consider buying a full-size 1911 from CD after reading your posts.

And since the "wish list" is in full force, how about a single stack full-size 1911 in 9mm? And .22?
And AR15 in 6.8?
And the "New Mfg. Non-Restricted VZ-58L"
And the all-new WWII pattern Wehrmacht semi-automatic firearms
And a...well, guess that's enough for me (right now!)

VirgilCaine
January 5, 2008, 05:01 PM
Even many of the real bolt gun folks I know like the handling of a lever rifle, most are just not willing to give up the extended range that a bolt rifle gives them. Give them a reasonably in-expensive lever rifle alternative to that bolt rifle and I think it will show to be more than just a novelty, and yes if your design allows for an extended -high capacity mag then you will certainly draw even more attention.

Sounds like offering a real alternative to the usual products would make a lot of money. Here's hoping they go with the idea.

Shear_stress
January 5, 2008, 05:15 PM
What a cool thread!

Here's a few goodies that would be nice to have imported (again):

1.) Those FEG .22 pistols that KBI and Interarms used to bring in from Hungary. They are pretty sought after on the auction sites. In fact, it seems like any reasonably priced, reliable .22 pistol (especially one that looks like a Walther PPK) is going to sell like hot cakes--you can thank today's ammo prices for that.

2.) The IMI Timberwolf! Nothing like a tube-magazine, pump-action .357.

3.) The Armi Jager .22 LR AR15, Galil, FAMAS, PPsH, and AK knockoffs from Italy. Take a look at all the buzz around the German Sporting Guns .22 LR MP5 that's coming out this month if there's any doubt about the demand for rimfire military-style rifles.

4.) On the nice-to-have-if-only-it-existed: a walnut-stocked, lever-action 7.62x39 rifle that takes AK mags.

Rebel1972
January 5, 2008, 06:02 PM
Welcome Mr. Kassnar .I would like to know more about the Little Sharps. I have searched the net every day and have found out little.What are the options ?When are the other calibers due to be released?. I might like one in 30-30 when they are on the market .Thanks for coming here to listen to our complaints.


Best Wishes,
Rebel

Stevie-Ray
January 5, 2008, 07:26 PM
Mike,
I must admit that I never really considered a Daly-probably because of the talk I've heard. But, a buddy of mine told me once that a bad trip to the range with all his autos; 2 Springfields, a Bersa, and a Daly, netted him problems with all but the Daly, which prevented his day from being a total loss. I've always remembered that. That, and what I'm hearing on this thread will add the CDs to my considerations list, that I promise.

Mac45
January 5, 2008, 08:10 PM
A question Mr. Kassnar,
A couple of posters have made mention that you may discontinue the Hi-Power.
True or not?
While I would rather have one in .40 S&W, a local shop does have one in 9mm. If this is my last chance, I might have to jump on it:)

Charles Daly
January 5, 2008, 08:32 PM
Day 2 of the dealer show I'm attending in Columbia, SC is over now and I can get back to responding to some more of your posts.

Starting on page 3 of this thread:

Brian Williams: Thanks for the welcome. If you are looking to build your own Zastava .223, I would be willing to offer you a raw action only, in the "white". When we started working with Zastava I made the mistake of not instructing them on what models to begin the serial number range. As a result, they started numbering on actions (not barreled actions or completed rifles). I kept serial number D-0001 (I always keep serial #1 of any new model we do) and it is in .223. I now realize that I will probably never build a gun out of it. If you are interested let me know by PM and I will quote you a price.

RandyB: I've taken note of the guns on your wish list. Thanks for the suggestions. One comment, we do have a left handed semi-auto shotgun in 12 gauge. More manufacturers would produce lefties but what usually happens is that we do the tooling, have a nice run in the beginning, and then the sales fall off and are not sufficient to keep the model in production. Now we do a run of these semi-autos only once every 2 years.

jerkface11: We have had nothing but heartache with our side by sides and over & under projects in Turkey. Every model has it's own problems, from factories demanding that we buy more than we need to competitors stealing the factory whose products we can sell in large volumes. Right now I can't promise anything when it comes to these guns. I hope to have better news by the SHOT Show. Sorry.

JAG2955: Sorry Jag, but I don't see a top-break revolver on the horizon.

40SW: You raise a very good point regarding having knowledgeable gun people answer the telephone. We are addressing this by having more training of our staff. It is a time consuming process but we are making headway.

As to your wish to see more accessories offered, this is a topic that we are aggressively pursuing. We currently offer extra magazines and an invitation to join the NRA at a discount is included with every gun we sell. Holsters will be joining the mix very soon. A few optics will come along (Malcolm replica for the Little Sharps rifle is one example of this). We are particularly interested in the entire range of accessories for AR-15 rifles go along with our new Defense line of products.

atblis: Hmmm.... we seem to have the same appreciation of the current importer of Tanfoglio. I know the manufacturer very well, but the realtionship that EAA has with them is "unique" and I doubt that it will ever change as long as the principals in both companies are still alive!

alex trebek: Believe me, we are trying to get more of our product out there. The problem often comes down to the fact that we only sell to wholesale distributors and we don't have sales reps calling on dealers. Dealers may be reluctant to try something new unless a lot of consumers ask for a particular product. We recognize that this is an untenable situation and that we need to do something about it soon. It's just that I hate reps! Most of them are not worth the time of day and the good ones are already representing our competitors. Having said all that, we are exploring ways of putting our products into wider distribution. Perhaps an announcement in this regard could be forthcoming after SHOT.

Darkness: Do you know if your dealer sent your first 1911 back to us for service or did he handle it himself? It sounds like you purchased your 2nd one from a different dealer. Is that correct? What happened to that one? Did it come back to us for service? I really would like to get to the bottom of these issues. Perhaps you could PM me the serial numbers and I could check our repair records.

BigO01: I think that since there are sear issues with your gun that you really should let us do the work. I would feel much better about the safe operation of your gun if we do it. I will check with our service department on Monday (when we have our bigf meetings) and find out how much of a backlog we have and how long it would take to turn your repair around.

Thanks for the compliments on the friendliness of our staff. I am glad to hear that some of the corrective measures we have taken can be felt by the public already.

M1 Garands at a reasonable price may be appearing here in the US before too long. That is all I can say on that subject for the time being.

OK, that's it for page 3 replies. I need a little break. Back in a few....

Dave B
January 5, 2008, 09:25 PM
Did I see a pic of a really nice 357 single shot rifle with the CD name,or am I confused ,as usual ?

Fburgtx
January 5, 2008, 09:54 PM
Shear-Stress and I must have been thinking the same thing when you mentioned that you still have some connections with IMI. Bring back the Timberwolf!!!!!!!!

Lots of folks would like to have a pump action .357!!!

cjk
January 5, 2008, 10:08 PM
M1 Garands at a reasonable price, that is indeed interesting.

I'm picturing new production Garands from Italy; I look forward to hearing more about this.

Mr. Kassnar,

Another new item that may be worth looking into is an original looking 1911 with pre-A1 features. I think that this would be a popular item for those that would like to have a new rendition of the John Browning original, but that can't afford Colt's WWI replica.

I may be wrong, but as Colt (and US Firearms to an extent) are the only ones currently offering a retro 1911, an affordable version may fill a popular niche.

I personally would be more willing to take my chances on purchasing a 1911 from Charles Daly than perhaps some other handgun models, as the 1911 is a known quantity and due to the fact that parts and support are readily available, even if not from the manufacturer/importer (even though that appears not to be a problem based on your comments here and on other boards).

I among the others posting here also find it refreshing that you are seeking input from the potential end users of your products. I will be watching your product lines more closely.

Ohen Cepel
January 5, 2008, 10:16 PM
Mr. K,
Thanks again for being here.

Means a lot to me and I'm chasing that HP this week.

Any chance that with Remington's change in ownership you'll get back into Zastava for Mausers? That was a big loss in my mind.

Charles Daly
January 5, 2008, 10:36 PM
Page 4 comments here:

bogie: We tried to get our maker of the 1892 to do a "utility" version, with stainless steel and synthetic stocks. Unfortunately he didn't want to do it and suggested instead a model with wood stocks painted black and "in the white" metal. He even made a sample that looked quite good in that execution. However, we do not think the market would respond favorably to this, particularly at a $899 price point. (The value of the US$ vs the Euro is really bad at this time. Expect major price increases on all imported products in 2008.)

Deanimator: Thanks for your comments. As for the Daly HP, unfortunately the stories of its demise are true. The pistol has been discontinued. This particular project was a complete fiasco for our company. In order for our HP to be sold in any volume it had to be considerably lower priced than the FN and/or Browning. We could not achieve that lower price point without losing money. In the end, it was a good deal for the consumer and a terrible burden for us. If we could sell the pistol for the same price as FN then we could continue, but we don't think that is possible.

Tim K: Good idea! (I always like it when someone agrees with me :).) We are working on a .22LR 1911 at this time. No idea though as to when we will be able to bring it to market yet.

Technosavant: Thanks for clearing that up. I do stand corrected. Apparently S&W and SA (in addition to CD) will pay the freight in both directions on repairs.

steak-knife: Glad to hear you are pleased with your HP. Unfortunately there we never did get the hard chrome version to market before discontinuing the project.

I am not positive, but we understand that Brno has been acquired by CZ. If true, I don't think their products will be available outside of CZ's control. I could be wrong on this though. If anyone that has any additional information on this story, please let us know.

yullose: I see you are from Reading, PA. Were you at the Gun Gallery when your gun fell apart? Please let me know. If yes, I have a possible explanation for what happened with that particular pistol.

CB900F: I will get the number of LH .223 actions, barreled actions and completed rifles that we imported from Zastava and will let you know. We did the .223 and the .30-06 in LH versions and if memory serves me correctly the total between the two was less than 1,000 pieces. However, I will get the exact number and post it here.

solvability: Also glad to hear you are pleased with your .22 rifle. These are excellent rimfires. We should have mags for that model. I hate to keep responding in these posts that I will get back to you, but it is the weekend and I will have to check with my office.

FYI, we are getting ready to "re-launch" our website very soon, possibly in the next 2 weeks. Ordering spare mags, choke tubes, and other accessories will be much easier once we get onlin with the new design.

orionegnr: It sounds like our former Customer Service Manager dealt with you in much the same way as several others were handled. I realize you "have moved on" and personally, I don't blame you. We dropped the ball(s) for you and several others and nothing I can do now will ever change what happened in the past. All I can do is assure you, and anyone else, that this will not happen in the future.

dleong: Glad to hear you are pleased with your ZDA with the exception of the LSI (Low Shot Indicator). I will make sure you get a grip screw even if I have to order one from EAA, the current importer. (The president of EAA is the one who engineered Remington's takeover of the line from us.) We are having extreme difficulty getting parts from Zastava as we no longer work with them. But one way or another I will get you that screw! Please PM me your address.

redactor: We do have a number of FIAS parts on hand, both for the Daly rifles that Sabatti built for us, but even some old FIAS branded guns that were sold by my father's old company Kassnar Imports. If you ever do need some parts give us a call and we will certainly try and help you out.

Hmmm....perhaps we should take a more serious look at the IAI Enfields. As for another traditional bolt action line, I don't see that happening for us anytime in the near future. There just aren't that many manufacturers out there that are still up for grabs.

That's it for page 4....break time. I will try and hit page 5 tonight but right now I need a break....

jerkface11
January 5, 2008, 11:15 PM
Well darn CZ is really the only company that makes one I like. Unfortunately it's $800!!!! a bit expensive for a gun whose sole purpose would be to shoot squirrels.

hankdatank1362
January 5, 2008, 11:28 PM
So what dirt can you dish us on your new AR-15s?

And what kind of finish is that on your Field line of 1911s? How does it hold up?


Finally, any chance of making a 1911 without the ambi safety? (I've never really looked at your line of 1911s until you started posting here... I REALLY like what I'm seeing.)

Gordon
January 5, 2008, 11:39 PM
I have LOOKED FOR and bought KBI and Kassnar branded guns for the last 25 years and now I know why! Thank you sir, I sure love my new Pointman!

Charles Daly
January 5, 2008, 11:53 PM
Gordon, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not! :confused:

Isn't the Pointman made by Dan Wesson?

AndyC
January 5, 2008, 11:54 PM
Mr. Kassnar - welcome to THR; nice to see a exec hang out and try to improve things.

I've never owned a CD product (I'm pretty new to the USA, but just give me a little more time) so I can't comment from direct personal experience yet. However, I am a longtime shooting enthusiast and I *like* competing with less-expensive firearms against top-dollar guns and beating them (when my skills are good enough). Inexpensive yet reliable firearms can be match-winners - and if they can do that, their range-proven reliability makes them likely trustworthy for personal defence.

As for me, I recently bought an RIA 1911 - inexpensive enough to replace if it turned out to be a total bust, but it hasn't - it's like the Energizer bunny. I bought it because I had heard so often about RIA's excellent customer service and that they would make it right the first time, every time - even if it wasn't their product at fault. That was what gave me the confidence to try a new brand - that they would stand behind their stuff if things went pear-shaped.

If I were to give you a heads-up, I would suggest doing a search both here and on the forum at m1911.org for "RIA" and see what people say they are doing right. Someone earlier mentioned knowledgeable staff - absolutely, get some shooters on board over there, and take your existing staff to the range and get them to shoot so they know what they're talking about.

Best of luck ;)

Charles Daly
January 6, 2008, 12:10 AM
hankdatank1362,

As for our new AR-15's, I posted this link earlier, but in case you missed it, here's our 2008 Charles Daly Defense "Suggested" Retail Price List: http://www.charlesdaly.com/pdf/2008_cdd_msrp_pl_121007_rev4.pdf.

Some other things I can tell you:
1. They are being built on DoubleStar lowers. We looked at a lot of different makers and were very impressed with their quality.
2. The rifles/carbines are 100% made in the USA. No imported parts at all!
3. In additon to the details that are included in the price list, you will find "properly" staked gas keys and "properly" staked castle nuts, a la Colt.
4. Our extractor has the black post and Crane "O" ring.

We have decided on 6 initial builds (7 actually, as there will be one, the D-M4RS that will be restricted state comliant). Of course, there will not be a model that is California compliant.

Please do not try and visit the website that is listed on the price list yet, CharlesDalyDefense.com, as the new site is not up. It should be online in two more weeks.

We will be adding accessories and uppers that will be available for sale on our website.

We will have a "Master Stocking Dealer Program" that will be unveiled at the SHOT Show.

On our 1911's, the finish is traditional blueing.

We still do the ambi saftey on the Government model but not on the Mid-Size or Compact. Sorry, but that's the only way ther are available right now.

That's about all I can think of right now. I'm sure there is more to tell you but it's been a long day. :)

roo_ster
January 6, 2008, 12:18 AM
CD:

Howdy & welcome.

I sure hope your customer service re-vamp is a success and that you can keep your customers happy and make a profit.

hankdatank1362
January 6, 2008, 12:29 AM
Well I appreciate all that you're doing. I'm sure that you are earning at least a handful of future customers. At least me! ( I gotta have one of those empire 1911s... The MSRP on the ARs leads me to believe that the street price will be about the same as Bushmaster, complete Doublestar rifles, etc... Now If I could find one for around $700-$750 OTD, I'd be stoked...)


Once agian, thankyou for your commitment to customer satisfaction.

Charles Daly
January 6, 2008, 01:26 AM
hankdatank1362m it's very hard to maintain mil-spec quality on AR at $750 OTD, or others would be doing it already. Crome lining, proper forgings and anodizing/teflon coating, and several other things conspire to drive the price closer to the $850 OTD for a basic featured quality M4 type Carbine. Unless you are willing to buy a complete lower, then a complete upper and put them together yourself. This way you would avoid the 11% Federal Excise Tax which is not an insignificant amount.

The way I've explained our builds here at the show, we will either give you a few more features than Bushmaster for a little less money (5-7%) or we will give you a lot more features for the same money. (See the D-M4LX and compare to Bushies Modular Carbine). This is the best we can do and I think that our prices and builds will be just right to get the sales job done (we hope).

CajunBass
January 6, 2008, 07:41 AM
Welcome to The High Road. Good to have you here.

hankdatank1362
January 6, 2008, 09:39 AM
Oh yeah, I know I was being unreasonable. Just hoping ;)

jerkface11
January 6, 2008, 10:08 AM
Do your AR's have "F" marked front sight bases? What bolt carrier are you using AR15 or M16? Are there color options?

Rick O'Shea
January 6, 2008, 11:20 AM
Mr. Kassnar,
Let me first add my compliments to you for what you are doing here.
If all manufacturers did this, the gun industry (or any industry) would be far better than at present.

- I do not at present own a CD firearm, but as others have said, would be more likely to consider them in the future as a result of your efforts as expressed here.

- Nice AR's. Any plans for an AR-10/.308 variant?

- Please, please, can somebody make a CCO-type carry 1911 (lightweight officer's frame, commander-length slide)? It might as well be you. I know that there is a demand for such a thing.

Thanks again for all your efforts. May they be rewarded.

Harold Hecuba
January 6, 2008, 11:26 AM
Michael,

I’m glad you have made the effort to reach out for some discussion on your products. It’s definitely a step in the right direction. Also, it’s good to know that you have made some changes to your company as your customer service does not have a good reputation. My dealer stopped stocking and recommending your products due to said customer service.

OK, you so want my 2 cents?…. How about 4 cents?

#1 Don’t town down the billboard on your pistols, eliminate them. The nicest way I can put it is your pistols look like white trash with the gaudy billboard. I was very interested in your HiPower until I saw it. Along with that, please do not imitate Ruger and put the entire owners manual on your merchandise.

#2 The Charles Daly name may work on sporting firearms, but I don’t think it cuts the mustard for military style equipment. The name "CD Defense" can work, but you need a cool logo. Armalite has the lion, Bushmaster has the snake Colt has the pony etc…, Better yet have a contest to design your logo, get your customers involved. Give away a free AR and you will have more designs than you can shake a stick at. Personally I think the Jolly Roger would ROCK!!! Also, please do not put a deer’s head or hunting crap on a military style firearm, someone else already does it and it looks tacky.

#3 I think your going to have a hard time making a name for your self in the world of AR’s as CD will be way behind the established brands. I’m glad Doublestar is working with you on this but your really going to need something special to compete. As with my point above, custom logo lowers would score you big points. No offence to THR, but the first thing I would do is make some friends at AR15.com. Do some group buys on different custom designed lower logos here and there, trust me people will notice.

#4 I’ve always seen your 1911’s as somewhat trashy looking. Like a girl with too much makeup. Call me old school, but I will not purchase ANY 1911 with forward slide serrations (BARF). If you want to sell me one, here are a few ideas. I would like to see USGI styled pistols both standard and enhanced with a parkerized finish ala RIA. I’ve read above in the thread that this is planned, however if you want to get a leg up on RIA (same pistol) I would recommend you do authentic style looking makings and proofs. Do not label them Charles Daly, CD Defense would look more military. Stick your initials (MK) on the frame as a proof mark and don’t forget the US property mark and the authentic UGSI looking grips. Do it right and trust me you will sell a ton. As long as were going retro, don’t forget to do a pre A1 1911 in a real blue finish with old school style markings. And lastly, I read you will be doing a 22LR 1911, but what about 9mm 1911’s??? I love to shoot my .45’s, but ammo has become too expensive. Offer an enhanced USGI in 9mm and I’ll be the first in line.

I don’t do shotguns or sporting rifles so I’ll stop here. If you use any of my ideas, don’t forget to invite me to see the finished product. I’m only a half hour away from you.

HH

BHPshooter
January 6, 2008, 11:27 AM
But, what's with the warranty being voided if I pull the mag safety? Yeah, I pulled it. Improves the trigger a lot.

FWIW, it voids the warranty on FN/Browning HPs, too. Usually, anything that changes the gun from factory specs will void the warranty (within reason, not including things like grips, etc.).

Wes

Charles Daly
January 6, 2008, 11:34 AM
jerkface11, all of our CDD-15 rifles that have a flattop also have the proper forged "F" front sight base (see our price list that shows the major features of each model here: http://www.charlesdaly.com/pdf/2008_cdd_msrp_pl_121007_rev4.pdf.

The bolt is AR-15 type. Presently there no color options. But our blacks are definitely black. Uppers and lowers match. You won't see any of grey/black combinations.

Charles Daly
January 6, 2008, 11:42 AM
Rick O'Shea, Sorry, no .308 this year. I've been after Armscor for almost 10 years to build a lightweight commander. I doubt that they will ever do one so we're going to have to look elsewhere for an aluminum frame. Any suggestions?

yullose
January 6, 2008, 11:48 AM
I agree with Harold... In that 1911's and AR15's should be a strong focus of the company. (keeping the company logo to a minimum)

They are the Camaros and Mustangs of the shooting world.

And YES Mike, that problem 1911 came from the Gun Gallery. How'd you guess ?

DMK
January 6, 2008, 11:48 AM
Mr. Kassnar, I've very impressed with your posts here and your commitment to customer service. I have to admit, I never really considered Charles Daly firearms before, although I was familiar with the name.

I'm in the market for a concealed firearm right now and will definitely look closely at Charles Daly Commander 1911s.

Oh, and welcome to the forum! Thanks for participating so actively. I hope you stick around for a while. :)

.45Guy
January 6, 2008, 11:51 AM
I wrote to CD when I was in Iraq about ordering one of the Zastava mausers. Never received a reply. That was the end of that.

jr45
January 6, 2008, 11:52 AM
CD,
Is there any significant difference between the metal quality/material from pre 2001 to post 2001 firearms? The only CD I own is one of your field grade 1911s (purchased it in 1999 or 2000). Overall, it is a wounder pistol, have fired 3,000+/- rounds through it with out failure except the front sight and recoil spring plug. The base of the front sight (dove tail) broke and during a cleaning, I dropped the spring plug on the cement ground and bent the lip. The plug does seem to made of very thin metal (as compared to my Colt Govt) and I was very surprised to see the lip bend inward from a drop.

Charles Daly
January 6, 2008, 12:21 PM
.45Guy, If you've read through this thread, you probably saw that we fired our Customer Service Manager who had been with the company for 21 years. I'm guessing he moved your inquiry to the bottom of his inbox, with low priority, since we lost the Mauser rifle line to Remington. Regrdless of that, your email should have been answered and for that I apologize. Things are improving, albeit not as fast as I would like, but it is happening.

sigarms229
January 6, 2008, 12:41 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

I'm impressed that you've come to the forum and opened yourself up to some feedback, I nod my hat to you. I only own one Charles Daly product, a EMF 1911, that I've put a few hundred rounds few and it has been reliable with ball ammo. Accuracty wasnt what I hoped but wasnt un-acceptable either.

The biggest complaint I've heard about your company is the lack of customer service. With your recent changes, hopefully those issues will be resolved.

I have a suggestion for you that was done ins another forum. Would you be willing to host a "private" tour to a couple forum members from your area? It doesnt have to be me, you could draw 5 names from a hat of people that live in SouthCentral, PA. These members could come in, see your operation, take a few pictures, and report back on the internet forums. This has been done several times by Sig Sauer with sigforum.com. Sig has actually shown and allowed a demo of new products to sigforum members before they were even announced to the public. Opening your doors and giving a private tour really goes a long way into showing how serious you are about customer service and feedback.

Just an idea that I hope you give some serious consideration.

Thanks.

John

Shweboner
January 6, 2008, 01:23 PM
I have never had a bad experience with your firearms...

One thing though since I have your ear...

Whats the possibility of producing new SKS rifles? The market is always ready to buy an SKS and the surplus market is not what it used to be. I would think that a new SKS selling for $250 would be a hot item especially if you offered it in .223 with just the standard 10 round fixed magazine. It would be a popular, practical item that most likely would fly under the radar of the anti-gun crowd. You would have to give it a different name though, just to be safe.

Thanks!

.45Guy
January 6, 2008, 01:43 PM
.45Guy, If you've read through this thread, you probably saw that we fired our Customer Service Manager who had been with the company for 21 years. I'm guessing he moved your inquiry to the bottom of his inbox, with low priority, since we lost the Mauser rifle line to Remington. Regrdless of that, your email should have been answered and for that I apologize. Things are improving, albeit not as fast as I would like, but it is happening.

Good to go, but this was back in May of '04. But that sounds about right.

BENELLIMONTE
January 6, 2008, 01:50 PM
Mr Kassnar,

I applaud your honesty & courage to engage forum members in conversation. It's not everyday that the owner of a company takes the time to talk with potential customers. I am truly impressed and am now willing to look at CD as a top notch company worthy of my hard earned dollars. I need another 1911 style 9mm, any of these in CD lineup?

DMK
January 6, 2008, 02:39 PM
As for our new AR-15's, I posted this link earlier, but in case you missed it, here's our 2008 Charles Daly Defense "Suggested" Retail Price ListThose look nice!

I realize it's going to take you a while to get some momentum with these, but how about offering a midlength carbine?

Everyone and his brother makes CAR/M4 carbines, but only a few makers make Midlength AR15s. They have quite a following and you won't have as much direct competition, ask the folks over at AR15.com

bogie
January 6, 2008, 02:42 PM
You know, Mike, it might be a good idea to partner with someone like Jon Ciener for .22 uppers for a 1911... And while you're at it, I'm not sure about the mechanics involved, but a variety of calibre choices for a 1911 platform would be interesting - Would switching to a 9mm require an entire new upper, or just a barrel/magazine change? Or would there have to be changes made to extractor/ejector? Extractor's easy....

On the AR side, consider a non-mil-spec (I hate chrome lined barrels anyway) line - Some varmint guns, maybe with name barrels, and some deer rifle guns, chambered in 7.62x39 (with new magazines). Set 'em up as purpose-built hunting rifles - camo finish, etc., and show a ballistics chart comparing the 7.62x39 to the .30-30 in print ads...

Idea: Have a "design a boomstick" contest, and see what shakes out...

tnet69
January 6, 2008, 03:54 PM
Well here is my input on charles daly weapons. I have a charles daily field model 20 ga. that the cocking lever keeps falling out of. I called customer support and the guy I got treated me like I didn't know which end the pellets came out of. I just want my gun fixed. They sent me a new cocking handle to put in it but it also falls out when the action is in the closed position, and yes I lined up the notch in the bolt before you ask. This is the second charles daly I have owned and most likley my last.

AirForceShooter
January 6, 2008, 04:23 PM
At least the man is standing up.
That's a lot.

AFS

MD_Willington
January 6, 2008, 09:45 PM
Hook up with Izhmash and get more Saiga's imported...

czbegenner
January 6, 2008, 10:08 PM
I had a K.B.I 380 around 1999 I had to pawn it to pay some bills i wanted to know where could i find another one here in louisiana

Gordon
January 6, 2008, 11:11 PM
No Mr. Kassnar, NOT sarcastic, just stupid! I thought you brought in Dan Wesson! Any way I do have a pile of your father's and your (I believe ) guns. The Feg line of M-85 (2), a "Russian" SKS, Feg Hi Powers (2) and an RK-59 and PA63. A couple Bernadelli marked Kassnar and a few others. Really the Kassnar and KBI stuff always attracted me because they general were unique smaller manufacturers when you brought them in.Were you involved in 'Whitworth' or was that interarms?

ccarnel
January 7, 2008, 12:01 AM
Sent you guys a PM but never heard back

I'm looking to buy a BHP from CD but heard nasty rumors that it may be in the process of being discontinued? Is this true? I kind of doubt it as I heard it at a gunshop.

Nevertheless i'm saddened to see that more manufacturers haven't picked up this platform. I acutally like it much better than the 1911 and wish more manufacturers would pick up the BHP. I would love to see someone make it in SS or hard chrome. If I can get a CD I will likely get it sent of to be refinished as it only comes in blue.

czbegenner
January 7, 2008, 12:17 AM
is there any where i could purchase a K.B.I 380

TexAg
January 7, 2008, 12:33 AM
Welcome! And here is another vote for the AIA Enfield .308!

Charles Daly
January 7, 2008, 01:09 AM
Just got home from a distributor's show in South Carolina. I will catch up with my replies tomorrow evening after a big day back in the office.

This is all good (pros and cons and suggetions). Keep 'en coming!

Halo is for Kids
January 7, 2008, 01:30 AM
Hook up with Izhmash and get more Saiga's imported...
+1 on the saiga hookup. Get together with vepr while your at it.

M110
January 7, 2008, 03:01 AM
Welcome! And here is another vote for the AIA Enfield .308!


+3

I already have the M10-a2, and would really like the full sized .308 version.

RockyMtnTactical
January 7, 2008, 05:19 AM
Charles Daly,

Thanks for posting that information on the AR15's you guys are working on. I must say that I am impressed so far.

Here is a link to a thread we had on it on another board. I'll be posting a link to here for those guys so that they can get the straight scoop!!

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=799066

lawson4
January 7, 2008, 07:13 AM
I spoke with Mr. Kassnar at the Ellett's show on Saturday; he seemed quite sincere about turning his service department, and its reputation, around.

lawson4

Desert 45 Rat
January 7, 2008, 08:41 AM
Welcome! Put me down for the AIA Enfield .308!

ksuchewie
January 7, 2008, 01:10 PM
Mr. Michael Kassnar,

I own a Charles Daly Field Hunter VR-M 12ga, that I bought from a local wal-mart. I have in the past (when e-mail was an option), e-mailed your service department numerous times to see if there was a way to factory modify the shotgun so that the bolt release button would not have to be depressed to load shells into the mag tube. I have never received a response back. Requiring an opertator to push this button down to load more ammo delays reloading time, and when you're in the field seconds do matter. Sometimes when I am pheasant hunting I may only come up on 1 group of birds. If I shoot my 3 rounds I am often looking at the remaining birds flushing away and my day is done. I have resorted back to using my O/U because I can reload it faster than my Charles daly.
Other than that I am satisfied with my firearm. It is a good value gun for the price, but to me it just needs that 1 minor improvement. I have rarely had jamming occur, which is also surprising considering the price. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to stop be here, and hopefully read this.

EBRDude
January 7, 2008, 01:42 PM
I know that because of your interest in your customers desires I will be very favorably inclined to purchase one of your products in the future.
Thanks for listening.

Leif Runenritzer
January 8, 2008, 06:39 PM
Mr Kassner,

Good on you for reaching out like this. The name Charles Daly will no longer give me a feeling of uncertainty. I hate to just tell you my wishlist, but it can't hurt to ask. What's the possibility of getting permission to manufacture parts for an OC-14 Groza bullpup AK? Maybe you could build whole, semi-auto rifles, or use them to rebuild Saigas, or sell them as parts kits. I've considered the AK-building hobby and am aware that builders are afraid of losing suppliers of kits.

Matt Sutton
January 8, 2008, 07:35 PM
My KBI imported SA-85 was about my most favorite rifle ever. I loved the blond wood, and the quality was tops. I always wished I would have picked up an underfolder before they were banned. :(

bogie
January 8, 2008, 07:47 PM
Was at my club today...

There was a guy in there who was getting ready to send a Kimber back for the third time - Seems it doesn't really want to go into battery quite a bit. Looking at it, I'm wondering about the recoil spring (seemed a little light) coupled with maybe a tight chamber/throat... Plus, it felt a little odd going into lockup...

I suggested he look into a CD for a carry gun.

Got the strangest look.

hankdatank1362
January 8, 2008, 08:10 PM
One more question....

Are your 1911s built to standard specifications? As in, barrels/bushings, grips, etc. drop in with only minor fitting? (I know things like triggers, safeties, ignition parts require more, no matter the brand)

The only alteration I would probably make to one of your EFS 1911s is the addistion of a magwell/MSH combo. If it is something that would drop in with some minor blending.

sigarms229
January 8, 2008, 08:19 PM
From the FAQ on the Daly website.

Are the parts in my 1911 interchangeable?

Steel frame EFS models manufactured after March 2002 are 100% interchangeable with Colt. Models previous to this date are roughly 98% interchangeable. Many of the components for our EMS and ECS models are interchangeable however many other manufacturers produce mid-size and compact models in different ways.

Our Polymer frame M-5 Government model is a wide body 1911 platform which uses standard 1911 parts with the exception of the trigger, mag catch, grip safety and mainspring housing.

cmb3366
January 8, 2008, 11:45 PM
I just wanted to add, that if you can import a decent M1 Garand at a reasonable price, as you hinted, it would be awesome, and I for one would be in line to buy one. A M1a-m14 at sub-springfield prices would also be very interesting.

Johnny B
January 9, 2008, 12:29 AM
A M1a-m14 at sub-springfield prices would also be very interesting.

I second that. The Norinco models are few and far between to say the least (I don't think I've ever even seen one), and Springfield's offerings are just a little too heavy on the wallet. Something that doesn't break a grand would be nice; in that price range I could actually see saving up and buying one, assuming, of course, that its quality would demand such a price.

By the way, I'm with the rest of the folks who have lauded your efforts in coming here and seeking out information and opinions from us. It's an admirable thing to do and I hope you keep it up.

Liberty1776
January 10, 2008, 03:53 PM
Michael -- thanks for "appearing" here for us.

I have three CDs -- all purchased new, (which is a rare thing for me) The Superior II Field .22 BA rifle (awsome little gun), the 20 ga, semi-auto field (lightest 20 ga I've found, for old farts like me that grouse hunt) and a .45 ACP field grade 1911 ECS.

The only issue is with the 1911 -- same thing as Skunky mentioned -- It is the most accurate centerfire pistol I own. The accuracy is amazing! I have shot several full-clip, one-hole groups... I don't consider myself great, but this gun rules!

However... There is that one problem, though. It drops the groups two feet at that 20 yard distance. I was going to file the front sight down, but after seeing that it didn't work for the other guy, I'm not going to do it either...

The only other issue is that it will not feed 100% reliably with anything other than hardball. That is not a big deal, but using some wadcutters, etc would be nice.

What's your thoughts on the aiming point. Feel free to reply to my email at timornard@yahoo.com, if there's a convenient solution...

Thank you and looking forward to your AR15s...

cyclist
January 10, 2008, 04:07 PM
Not sure what sort of input you want in this thread, but just throwing this one out to you since this seems to be a catchall thread:

Looked at the web site, then under nearby dealers and found one that is no longer around:
Buttrums Sporting Goods
5464 North Port Washington
Milwaukee, WI 53217
Phone: 414-967-1980
WebSite: www.buttrumscatalog.com
View Map


This shop is either no longer in business or has moved to some unknown place.

daveotee
January 10, 2008, 10:36 PM
Hi Mr. Kassner, I'm wondering if Charles Daly might have any parts available that are compatible with the Zastava CZ99? It seems that you are
selling/ have sold, a version of that pistol...thanks

Howard Roark
January 10, 2008, 10:55 PM
A friend of mine has a 28 guage auto loader Charles Daly. A part broke in the bolt. Charles Daly repaired it at no charge and paid all shipping.

He is well pleased with the service he got.

Dbilli
January 10, 2008, 11:01 PM
I currently own a charles daly field efs 1911 and am looking to purchase a new field ecs or empire ecs for my wife but am having trouble finding a local dealer to locate one. The best I can get from them is "If you find one have it shipped here and I'll transfer it for you". So is there a way for a private individual to locate a charles daly gun other than the gun locator on your website?
And thanks for taking the time to visit with the public. It shows me that you care about your customers and your company. And oh yea, I have had nothing but good luck with my 3 charles daly firearms

Poper
January 10, 2008, 11:38 PM
Mr. Kassnar:
I don't like to pile on, but Big Boomer has it right:
OP - Big Boomer:
]"If you want to win over someone with your customer service and have your customers screaming from the mountain tops about it, make it better that right, don't just fix the gun, send it back with a trigger job, some complimentary carry sights, an extra magazine, perhaps some custom fitting. Give it that extra touch. Remember it is a pain the rear to send a firearm in a lot of places."

I refused to send a Taurus .44 Mag. Tracker in just because of the "gal on the phone" that was more interested in using the hold button than getting to the reason for my call. I took it to a local 'smith and paid him $85 to correct my rough, sticking cylinder. Are there more Tauruses in my future? I don't think so. At least not any time soon.
I'll paraphrase man much wiser than I: "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a bargain price has faded." A lesson we all seem to learn the hard way - on both ends of a sale, I might add.

On the other hand, I sent an old (1978 vintage) Ruger Security Six in to Ruger (that was given to me) for a rough trigger. (It felt like it was being dragged over broken concrete.) It was returned not only smooth, but lightened, too! AND they took the time to re-blue the frame/barrel assembly as the last inch or so of the barrel had worn to bare metal. I DID have to pay shipping TO them, though. Will I buy a Ruger in the future? Probably.

OP - Big Boomer:
It is hard to be recommended, but even worse to overcome having a QC issue. I couldn't agree more, and I would add a CS issue, too. As it is, I have considered a couple of CD's guns, but have shyed away beacause of their perceived reputation from what I have heard here and friends, too.

Regardless, I'll have to clean up my honey-do list before I let any more of these critters follow me home... Ruger or otherwise! ;):D:D

I hope this helps.

Poper

epcasuga
January 11, 2008, 05:53 AM
I have no experience with CD customer service but I have a good feeling I will soon. I've recently purchased the above said shotgun in late Nov. and have since put about 800 rounds through it. However as of recent, I have had misfiring problems even after cleaning/oiling and using different types of shells.

From what I've read here so far, I am looking forward to great customer service. I'll keep everyone posted on how it goes.

stevelyn
January 11, 2008, 02:17 PM
Please, please, please get the distributorship for the Zastava Mausers back from those yutzes at Remington they are even offering the left hand action and the guns they are selling aren't as nice as they were when you had them.

Randy in Arizona
January 11, 2008, 04:30 PM
Mr. Kassnar,
Thanks for doing what you can to remedy the situation that developed with your service department!

I have an Armscor M16 22 (what Armscor now lists as the M1600), and two KBI imported SA-85s. One underfolder and one SA85M rifle that was the subject of a conversation I had with you at the NRA Convention in Philadelphia in 1998.
At the time I told you that it had come out of the box with an improperly drilled and tapped front sight post block. (windage block?)
The threaded front sight post is at an angle (not 90 degrees) to the piece it threads into.

You told me to call and I would be able to get it fixed.

I also have problems with the Armscor M16 22. It will not fire and cycle reliably.

When I called your KBI Customer Service operator, I was told: ‘We don’t have parts for those; you will have to go somewhere else.’ This is not verbatim, it has been a while. But in general I got a ‘get lost, don’t bother us’ attitude on the part of your staff.

Is there anything that can be done to remedy the situation?

Thanks again for your time,
Randy Franklin

fyrwokr
January 12, 2008, 03:48 PM
Have been looking at the Little Sharps and want to order one but cannot find any info on who makes this model. Please advise.
Thanks fyrwokr

Charles Daly
January 12, 2008, 03:59 PM
Randy in Arizona, Your comments regarding the attitude diplayed by our Customer Service rep are the types or remarks made that have prompted me to revamp our CS Department. Wheteher we have parts or not we should always try to assist the consumer with his problem.

We haven't sold the Armscor M-16 in many, many years. However, we should have some parts here and if we don't have what you need we will call Armscor and see if they can help us.

Regarding the SA-85M's that you have, do they say Kassnar Imports on them or KBI? The reason I ask is that KBI never imported an underfolder SA. The underfolders go back to 1986. If it is marked KBI then it was added after-market and if the gun doesn't have at least 10 of the required US made parts in 922(r) then the modification was technically illegal. All KBI imported SA-85M's were imported after the Bush ban of 1989.

Having said that, I would like you to call my company and ask to speak with me personally. We will do our best to help you. Our number is (717) 540-8518 or (toll free) 866-DalyGun.

Charles Daly
January 12, 2008, 04:02 PM
fyrwokr, The Little Sharps is made in Italy by Armi Sport/Chiappa Firearms. They make our 1892 and full size Sharps also.

We have delivered these in .45LC and .38-55. Coming in the next few weeks are the .22 Hornets with other calibers to follow.

Charles Daly
January 12, 2008, 04:04 PM
stevelyn, why don't you email Zastava directly and tell them to give us the line back. I don't think they can be happy with what Remington has done for them. It might help if they hear from consumers here in the US on this.

Whirlwind06
January 12, 2008, 04:07 PM
Since your are discountinuing the Hi-power. Do you have another 9mm in the works?
I bet a resonably priced 9mm 1911 would sell.

Vader
January 12, 2008, 05:03 PM
Guys, give the man a chance to rest, today is Saturday and Mr K needs to relax, pop a beer and watch a little TV like you all probably doing now. Stop pestering him and resume your sessions on Monday.

DWARREN123
January 12, 2008, 05:30 PM
The only dealings I have had with CD is a 20ga and 12ga semi auto shotguns. They were inexpensive and worked. I believe I got my money's worth.

21H40
January 12, 2008, 11:51 PM
If you can keep your company accessible, through forums like this or prompt email responses, I will definitely purchase a CD (or more) this year.

I'm even willing to pay a little more for most services or products to get REAL customer service.

For wish list stuff:

Stainless snubnose revolvers (similar to Charter Arms) in 9mm, 44SPC, 45ACP or 45 colt

Compact 1911 with a "melt" package from the factory (maybe in 40),
and how about conversion kits for changing calibers (or a set if interchangeability is too hard)? I've always liked that about EAA's witness pistols (at least the old ones).

Of course, the smallest AR needs to be offered in 10mm, too:D

I'm still surprised that this thread's here. I'll be watching CD for signs that these changes are really happening:)

Thanks for listening.

Charles Daly
January 13, 2008, 12:53 AM
Vader, thanks a lot for your post. Yes, even I could use a little "down time" this weekend but it just doesn't seem like I get much of a chance for that every year in the weeks building up to the SHOT Show.

It's late, New England just won the playoff, and I had a chance to play some poker a little earlier, so I though I would pop in to THR and answer a few more posts before going off to bed.

I know I've jumped ahead of a lot of posters but tonight I'm just going to handle those remaining on page 9 and tomorrow afternoon or evening go back through the read and answer the ones I passed over.

Dbilli: It would be very hard to find a Daly 1911 right now as I think most wholesalers and dealers are probably sold out. We had some serious interuptions in deliveries from the factory for several months and just about everybody sold out. Having said that, we have a 500 pc. shipment (all EFS blue) in-transit to us now. They should be in our warehouse in a week to 10 days, then figure another week until they are in the warehouses of the major wholesalers around the country. So say, in 2 to 3 weeks, your local dealer should have no difficulty in finding one. If by some chance he can't find one at that time, give us a call (toll free) at 866-DalyGun and we will be able to direct you to those wholesalers that got guns from this shipment.

Poper: Thanks for your comments. I think you will find, from this point forward, that we will be doing everything we can to keep our customers satisied with their purchase and after-sales service. We weren't always doing that and it cost us, big-time. Well, I've "seen the light" as they say, and as long as I have anything to say about, you will be a happy customer of Charles Daly.

epcasuga: It sounds to me like our gunsmiths should take a look at your shotgun. Please PM me your address and we will get a FedEx Call Tag out to you on Monday. We will get you gun running again and ship it back to you as soon as possilbe.

Whirlwind06: Indeed, we are working on several new 9mm pistols. More news on this subject will be announced in a few weeks at The SHOT Show. One for sure I can tell you about will be in the M-5 hi-cap polymer frame 1911 from Bul. There will be others as well.

21H40: Thanks for your post. We will definitely keep our company accessible. I can tell you that prompt email responses are the hardest part of that to accomplish. This past year a hacker/spammer hijacked our website page that allowed you to email us directly from the site. Before we knew it, our server was being used to send spam out by the thousands all over the world. As a result, our internet address got banned by many servers as the originator of spam so that even when we did reply to email it would be rejected by the recipient's server. We have been working to rectify that situation and I believe that it should be finally working again this next week. Hopefully the email we do send out will be received by everyone out there.

As to your wishlist, I'm sorry but no new revolvers are in the works at the moment. A compact 1911 with a "melt" package is on the project board but I would not think we could begin to see it enter production before year end. We have a lot of ground to make up as a result of those earlier mentioned "interrupted" deliveries.

Do I understand your next request correctly? You are asking for an AR in 10mm?

Do keep an eye on us...changes are really happening at Charles Daly.

That's it for tonight gang. I will get back to the board and resume answering your questions and commenting on your posts tomorrow afternoon/evening.

mister2
January 13, 2008, 12:40 PM
Let me commend you on your effort to take the bull by he horns. It looks like you are getting some attention (actually, a lot) at this point.

I have a CD Bul M5, which has performed flawlessly, and offers a few advantages over a steel-framed double stack. However, the mag catch is plastic and may be a weak point since aftermarket steel parts (pricey) now exist. Any plans for CD to make or buy the part for CD M5 owners?

And a FEG HP clone, imported by k.b.i., FTF'd sporadically until I replaced barrel, but otherwise good.

In general, I'd say you offer excellent value over your range of products.

Thanks for your proactive marketing and good luck!

MR2

willbrink
January 13, 2008, 12:54 PM
I have no dog in this fight having no experience with your company, but FYI, your statement:

"we are the only firearms company in the US that pays freight in both directions on repairs."

SnW and Kahr have done the above for me when/if I had any issues. I think it's great you have come onto the forum for feedback. ;)

czbegenner
January 13, 2008, 05:12 PM
but where can i get a kbi 380 at

boonie
January 13, 2008, 05:16 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

It's good to see a manufacturer join the boards and pay attention to those of us on the internet. Tell your IT guys to fix the Charles Daly website.

The "employment opportunities" page is broke.

:)

21H40
January 13, 2008, 09:50 PM
Thanks for the quick response.

Yes, I think that pistol caliber carbines are fun, but 9mm is about useless for more than plinking (for recreational users;) anyway). 10mm is ok in a pistol, but it's been overlooked in carbines. I think that you could get more of an improvement in velocity out of cartridges like 9x23 or 10mm than out of 9x19 or 40S&W. 10mm's more versatile and hits harder at longer ranges.

Almost everyone's got a 9mm AR, but there are not very many 10mm carbines of any make or model.

Now, I don't know that you could get enough other people to agree with me to make it cost effective for you, but that's why it is a "wish" list!

MikeJackmin
January 13, 2008, 10:19 PM
When you have a moment, have a look at how crosman is selling their new carbine:

http://www.crosman.com/site/custom_store/2/step1

You can specify almost everything - the barrel length, the sights, the shape of the stock - and see exactly how it will look before you place your order. I bought one of these and was very happy with the result. What not? it was exactly what I wanted.

The first manufacturer who can do this with single-action revolvers is going to sell thousands of them.

Want a three inch, four inch, five or six or seven inch barrel? Birdshead or bisley or thunderer or standard grip frame? Blued steel, brass, case colored, stainless or silver? Standard hammer, or bisley? Adjustible sights or square or round notch? Want the extra fifty dollar trigger job option? Black powder or regular frame? What color? What caliber, and what conversion cylinders?

I don't care if it's an extra hundred bucks, and I don't care if I have to wait an extra month. My only other options is a custom maker at twice the cost and three times the wait.

I can completely understand how hard it would be to set something like this up, but of course it can be done, it's just a matter of doing it at an acceptable cost. Find a practical way to make it happen and you'll sell as many guns as you can build...

...and one of them will be a .45acp/colt three inch blue steel gun with fixed sights, a bisley hammer, a case color frame, a brass trigger guard and thunderer grips. And I'll spring for the extra trigger work, too.

Charles Daly
January 13, 2008, 11:19 PM
Some more responses to your posts:

willbrink: I do stand corrected on the fregiht policy of some other gun companies. So far I have heard that S&W, Springfield and (this is the first I heard of) Kahr will pay the freight on returns to them for service. Do they advertise that, or post it on their website? Or do they only offer to do it if requeted/pushed by the consumer?

czbegenner: Sorry, but we stopped selling the FEG .380's several years ago after several price increases eliminated their competitiveness. Now FEG is out of business!

MikeJackmin: Thanks for the post. While I would admit that what you propose "could" be done, there are a lot more hoops to jump through to make it happen with a firearm then there are with an airgun. I can think of a lot of problems with it. What happens when we would build a custom gun (100% would have to be paid at time of order) and the nearest dealer is 300 miles away from you? And how would we know what that dealer would charge for his transfer fee and NICS fee? And what if after we have your money, for one reason or another you fail the NICS check? Again, it sounds good in principle, but would be a nightmare to put in place. Especially for an importer.

Brian Dale
January 14, 2008, 07:24 AM
Welcome to The High Road, Mr. Kassnar! I'm delighted to see you here.

You asked willbrink, So far I have heard that S&W, Springfield and (this is the first I heard of) Kahr will pay the freight on returns to them for service. Do they advertise that, or post it on their website? Or do they only offer to do it if requested/pushed by the consumer?
You'd asked another poster about this earlier. I can only speak about my experience with Smith & Wesson. I bought a new Smith revolver in September of 2006 which appeared to have a manufacturing problem. The shop where I'd bought the revolver showed little interest in helping me to get it fixed. I emailed Smith & Wesson's Customer Support department in September of 2007, after shooting it a lot and making sure that I wasn't imagining the problem. I didn't find any indication on their web site that they would pay for my shipping it to them. I expected that I'd have to send the revolver to them at my own expense, and I wasn't happy about that.

When I contacted Smith & Wesson, the gentleman with whom I communicated simply asked what the problem was, then sent an overnight label to me via email, with no questions asked.

He took on the problem and assumed the responsibility for a solution.

When the revolver came back to me, it was perfect.

My reaction to this comes from a context that I developed many years ago, when I was just out of college and a messenger in a large, metropolitan law firm:

This is how grownups do business.

It looks like you're one of the grownups.

My current situation is this:

I'm an American. Therefore, I need a 1911.

I don't have one yet. I'll be looking for a Charles Daly.

All the best to you, sir, and again: welcome.

Galil5.56
January 14, 2008, 05:34 PM
Mr Kassnar,

Could you go back to page 5 of this thread, review/research what I wrote, and please reply as you have with the others. BTW, this situation was with your "new" manager.

Thanks.

graybeard321
January 14, 2008, 05:42 PM
I can tell your first hand that Charles Daly Customer service is outstanding. The problem is I have had to use it too many times. My wifes 28 gauge field hunter has had to be repaired 3 times.

Charles Daly
January 14, 2008, 08:49 PM
Galil.556: My staff and I discussed your ZDA at length. Everyone in Customer Service, our Purchasing Manager and 2 gunsmiths all had a chance to look at your pistol and all of them met with me about it. I also viewed the videos of your issue.

To make a long story short, no one in my organization could repeat what is seen in the video. They tried...and tried...and tried again, to no avail. Muzzle down, angles like your video, muzzle up, muzzle every which way in the world and nothing. The pistol worked fine when in our possesion and that is why it was returned to you saying that no problem could be found. Your comment that our Lifetime Repair Policy is valid "only on paper" is inaccurate.

Normally in this situation I would offer you a full refund. However, since I see that you got a refund from your dealer, and that it cost you $50 out of pocket, please send me a PM with your address and we will reimburse you for that expense.

As to why there are no parts available for the ZDA, this is because Zastava severed relations with our company after switching to Remington. We have pleaded with them for spares for 2 years and they have turned a deaf ear to our requests. This sort of thing does not normally happen. Even when we parted ways with other suppliers in the past we were always able to obtain parts for the guns that we sold. This is not the case with Zastava.

On your comment that "the lack of an active email address....is unacceptable...", we agree. I think I posted here that we did have an email contact but that the form was hacked by spammers, then used to send spam all over the world with our server. We think we have fixed the problem and will have an email address up on our site within a few days. We simply had to take it down until this was resolved.

I regret that your experience with our Service Department was less than satisfactory. However, as stated above, we did try to find the problem and we were unable to do so. You should have been told that in more detail.

Sincerely,
Michael

IAJack
January 14, 2008, 09:26 PM
Because of this thread I think a new CD 1911 is on my list as my next purchase.

greenflash107
January 14, 2008, 10:29 PM
Mr. Kassnar. Welcome to the HIGHROAD! 1st, you are a brave man (and also a smart business man). I wish all of the Manufactors had a rep that was a member of THR. I know that with a lot of "give and take" info from the members here, you can make your company bigger, and better. Thank you, and again, welcome!!

Galil5.56
January 14, 2008, 10:58 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

Thank you for your reply, and your offer to reimburse me. Getting a CD HP has just become more of possibility, as has a second chance from me toward your company.

PM is on the way. Thank you.

Spector
January 15, 2008, 10:56 AM
I purchased a Charles Daly pistol scope back in the 80's. It had a lifetime warranty.........that wasn't. I finally just gave up and sold the scope at a yard sale this summer for much less than I should have had to.

If I could have had it repaired under the lifetime warranty then I would have had no desire to sell it at all but a scope that is too blurry to accurately see your target isn't worth much. I was fortunate to sell it at all.

I was told by Charles Day that they were not responsible for providing service for Charles Daly scopes. I guess that means that a lifetime warranty sometimes isn't really a lifetime warranty..............Mike

Desert 45 Rat
January 15, 2008, 11:32 AM
A quick search of their website:

Who do I contact regarding repairs to my Charles Daly Scope?

Charles Daly optical products were never sold by K.B.I., Inc. and therefore are not warranted by K.B.I., Inc. We recommend that all scope repair inquiries be directed to an after market optical repair facility such as:

ABO (USA), Inc.
2653 NW 20th Street
Suite 2000
Miami, FL 33142
Tel 305-859-2010
Fax 305-372-8616

Charles Daly
January 15, 2008, 12:27 PM
Spector (Mike): We do have to draw the line somewhere on warranty repairs and that line is drawn on products that were never sold by our company.

We acquired the Charles Daly brand in 1997. Your riflescope was sold by the previous owner of the brand, Outdoor Sports Headquarters, Inc., a wholesaler who is still in business today. If anyone has a Charles Daly riflescope that requires service, I suggest you contact them about the "Lifetime Warranty" on their product.

Outdoor Sports Headquarters, Inc.
967 Watertower Lane
Dayton, OH 45449
(800) 444-6744

The Charles Daly brand was owned by many companies since founded in 1865. KBI cannot be responsible for those products sold by other companies before we acquired it.

Saiga39
January 15, 2008, 02:55 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

Welcome to the forum.

Any chance we can get the Zastava LKP 66 rifle imported?

I've seen on a few different gun forums, people wishing this rifle in 7.62x39 was being imported to the US.

Templar223
January 17, 2008, 06:38 PM
Welcome Mr. Daly.

I'm impressed with your letter. It goes a long way to counter what I've always been told, "you don't want a Charles Daly".

So knowing now that you've got a lifetime warranty, I'll give your products a look. Maybe even a second look knowing that the sub-par customer service of days gone by have been replaced with a hands-on management that's customer oriented. Even better, I like knowing the President of the company is approachable.

John

ETA: Wow, Mr. "Daly", you really are serious about cleaning up your image. You've handled some very harsh criticism with aplomb. Kudos.

AZ-K9
January 17, 2008, 06:59 PM
I read somewhere that CD was going to release an AR15 style setup at SHOT this year, and was wondering what you come up with regarding final configurations?

The market is so saturated with AR's now it would seem to me someone would try to get part of the Colt allure by offering 6920ish features and QC measures. Was that done by chance?

Thanks for putting this out, I too may consider a CD firearm now and was not aware of the warranty coverage.

GaryM
January 17, 2008, 09:14 PM
Wow this is interesting. I don't have any CD weapns right now but have been looking at one or two lately.
I am impressed that an actual gun company owner deigns to frequent a board.

BlackJack
January 17, 2008, 09:15 PM
Mr. Kassnar,
I bought a Charles Daly Hi-Power in October 07. It has jammed, stovepiped and failed to extract and eject properly despite several efforts to get it running right. I sent it to your customer service staff in December (at your expense there and back--thank you very much) but it came back unchanged, still having the problem.
I'd be glad to hear from you or your new service manager.
Tks, Jack

Charles Daly
January 17, 2008, 10:31 PM
Blackjack, would you please PM me your serial number? I will look into this tomorrow and get back to you.

mr_camera_man
January 18, 2008, 10:08 AM
Mr. Kassnar,

I registered here for the sole purpose of responding to this thread, although I'm more active on AR15.com.

I used to own a FEG PJK, and while I had some teething problems with it, your service department was most helpful in getting it running right. It's very rare that you can buy a pistol of that quality for well under $300.

I have to ask you, though... why on earth are you no longer importing Baikal Makarovs? With the surplus market having seemingly dried up for the time being, I'd imagine that you could make quite a killing with these.

Also, I'm curious about the FEG AK's that you used to import. Does FEG offer (or can they be persuaded to offer) single-stack AK's that you could then mill out like Century does? If you could offer a new double-stack AK with SA85 quality at a typical FEG price point, I'll buy one of the first ones off the boat. EDIT: I saw your post a few pages back where you said that FEG had hit an iceberg and sank... quite a shame, as they were making some good stuff. I'm sure there's only about 500 billion sources of AK's in the world though... any other thoughts along those lines?

Thanks,
John

BlackJack
January 18, 2008, 11:35 AM
pm sent with sn

Seancass
January 18, 2008, 12:49 PM
Charles Daly is on my list of possible entry level 1911s for purchase soon. I hadnt heard much about them and was only considering them for the price. This thread has seriously given me new confidence in the company. It is unheard-of for the owner of a company to come out and do what he can for individual customers. I might buy a Charles Daly just as a thank you for the effort shown in this thread and to encourage more businessmen to do as you have done.

Thank you.

Dravur
January 18, 2008, 12:54 PM
If I see a CD 1911 out there for sale, I am going to look it over REAL good and if it meets my expectations, I'm going to buy one and see how she handles. I have been looking at a fun project gun for a while, this may be it.

Grayrider
January 18, 2008, 02:48 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

Welcome to THR and I must say you have done a fantastic job working through this thread so far. As you and I both know many in the industry have been slow to realize the value of a strong online presence, and you are doing the right thing in becoming proactive in this venue. I wish you the best success with your new ventures, and wanted to welcome you to the club!

As for suggestions, given I am a bit of a CZ clone fan and I happen to know that you know a thing or two about such pistols, I would like to see more options along those lines in the American market. Of course Armscor is doing that to an extent with their Tanfoglio derived line. I am told by Marc Galli that they are now showing a 45 caliber pistol, so venturing into the large frame territory with new caliber options.

You mentioned IWI and along similar lines it would be interesting to see someone bring in their current offerings rather than the basic and out-dated "Baby Eagle" models MRI continues to import. On the IWI web site at www.israel-weapon.com one can see a variety of models featuring the frame safety that American shooters prefer, along with various polymer frames. I feel that the Jericho PL and PSL TR pistols could do quite well here, as could any of their current design models. The Baby Eagle design is simply not what American shooters want, but the quality of IWI products is well known. Given your contacts with them, I would think there is potential for CD to bring in those guns and do quite well given the nature of your competitors who offer Tanfoglio derived firearms. Then there is Bul Transmark, also a maker of a Tanfoglio derived pistol. American shooters are very open to the concept of a CZ/Tanfoglio pattern gun, just want a quality vendor behind any such offering. One that is willing to provide end-customer support.

It is good to hear that we may see a Bul M5 in 9mm. I will buy one as I am quite the fan of the Bul polymer 1911s, and wish I had not sold my last one a while back. I would enjoy the same thing in 10mm or .38 Super, but then I am a bit eccentric in my caliber preferences.

Again, welcome to the forum and I will look forward to your participation!

John Howard

Charles Daly
January 18, 2008, 05:14 PM
Saiga39: Sorry, but we have no plans to work with Zastava after the way they screwed us with the Mausers and Remington. If they want to ever work with us again they know what they need to do!

AZ-K9: You heard correctly, we are entering the AR market and will be displaying our first 6 models at the upcoming SHOT Show in Las Vegas. FYI, we just launched our new website: http://www.charlesdalydefense.com. This is just a "catalog" site for now but will grow to become a full e-commerce site soon after the show. You will be able to buy uppers, magazines and other accessories online (non-FFL).

It was no accident that our D-M4LE mimicks the features of the 6920. We wanted to be able to offer a comparable model to the Colt for substantially less money and we believe we've achieved that, with a nicer finish to boot!

Please note that MSRP shown on the new website are "suggested" only and actual "street" prices will be considerably lower.

Blackjack: Thanks for sending me the PM with your serial number. I researched your repair order and spoke with the gunsmith that worked on your pistol. He removed and adjusted the extractor, did some smoothing of the barrel where it contacts the bushing, then test fired with 3 different brands of ammo with no malfunctions.

At this point the gun was returned to you "repaired". Since it still doesn't work for you properly, I'm wondering what else could be going on. Could you please tell me what brand of ammo you are using? There are one or two brands out there that are causing us some grief.

mr camera man: If only we could still import the Baikal Makarovs! You can thank Bill Clinton that these cannot be imported into the US. In 1995 he coerced Russia into signing the VRA (Voluntary Restraint Agreement) whereby Russia agreed to srop exporting certain firearms to the US in exchange for American foreign aid at the time. It was the 1st time a US president had ever used a trade agreement with the US to ban firearms from the US. Imports of the excellent Russian SKS were also stopped at that time. Even though we can import Makarov's and SKS's from other countries, Russian imports are still prohibited.

As far as the AK's are concerned, Century is probably your best bet now for "price point" rifles. We are going to concentrate on AR's for a while. (See link above to our new Charles Daly Defense website.)

mr_camera_man
January 18, 2008, 06:38 PM
Michael, Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of that treaty. Does that also cover the Bulgarians and their commercial Arsenal Maks?

dleong
January 18, 2008, 06:53 PM
Mr. Kassnar,

Just thought I'd let you know that the grip screw for my ZDA arrived earlier this week.

Many thanks for your attention to the matter! :)

postpostban
January 18, 2008, 07:07 PM
Hi, I registered here just to post here.


You have stated that your AR's will be built here in the US. I know you will have to build base models to keep your production lines going.
Have you considered a setup like Victory motorcycles?
http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory/BuildQuote/
You can go online, build the bike you want, with all the custom items you want, then get a quote for what it would cost to build.
Then you go to a dealer and order. The factory only has to build exactly what the customer wants, and the customer doesn't have to buy parts they are going to replace anyway.

I would also suggest avoiding Minimum advertised pricing. That really pissed a lot of people off when RRA went to that.

lorddal
January 18, 2008, 08:24 PM
a few years ago I tried to contact the CD customer service about a CD Hawkens 50 cal muzzle loader I was trying to find out about ordering a replacement barrel since the drum on the side was torn up by the previous owner after several attempts and no replys I finally had a gunsmith remove the old drum and tap the barrel and install a new one I still would like to find a replacement barrel for my Hawkens if avaliable and to know the cost

Richbaker
January 18, 2008, 09:26 PM
Ruger does NOT have an email address posted or available to the regular consumer....it's just as easy to call, and I feel, better than email. To many ways to get the wrong messaage across via email.....
Also, Ruger will pay shipping to/from their repair facilities. They don't have a written warranty, but they DO have the best CS I've ever experienced...they will fix or replace as necessary.

chauncey
January 19, 2008, 12:16 AM
in reference to your Garands, to give something a little different, could you offer 7.62x51 and tanker-length models in addition to the traditional setup?

how about a BM-59 clone, while you are at it?

lastly, I'd love to have a heavy, well made 5.56/.223 rifle in a Garand/M14 style receiver. I think it would make a great precision rifle, with National match sights, etc. I know it's a bit of a pipe dream, but although I like AR's for target shooting, there's nothing like the feel of a Garand for bench shooting. With a full-size Garand, and a 5.56 round, there would be virtually no recoil. I am guessing you would have to down-size the bolt and operating rod to get it to cycle correctly.

Plus, with Lake City running 24/7, there's got to be one heck of an ammo surplus of 5.56 and Machine-gun rated 7.62 coming up some time in the next 10 years.

Accuracy-wise, Mini-14's are a disappointment, and the "sub-MOA" models they have come out with recently don't offer Iron Sights, and seem to lack alot of the charm of the Garand/M14 family of weapons. The success of .22 cal Lugers in days gone by comes to mind.

Plus, variety is always welcome, and this stuff might really make your pruducts stand apart from the well-tread offerings of other companies well-established in these product lines.

I am very fond of Springfield Armory, but considering they can't keep up with current demand I see little likelihood of them offering any novel products in the near future. That said, I think a lot of their customers would be interested in picking up some novel producs from your company, if they were offered!

pete f
January 19, 2008, 01:23 AM
Mr Kassner, thank you about your response vis a vis the old Miroku shotguns, I was unsure if you had bought the name or had bought assets like parts etc as well. I appreciate your response and understand your position.

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