[CaptainSanity]

I just got back from the range (Reed's Indoor for all you bay area types), and I'm a bit irritated at how my Valtro was behaving today.

The rundown:

Before today the pistol had about 600 rounds through it. Occasionally when shooting it has exhibited a tendency to not chamber the last or second to last round in the magazine. The odd thing (at least to me), is that it's never a jam or doublefeed, at least in the sense that the action never binds while attempting to chamber a round.

Instead, the slide will lock back as if the magazine were empty, and the last or second to last round will either be ejected completely from the magazine and weapon, or it ends up resting on the feed ramp as if I'd placed it there. Before it only seemed to happen with one or two of the four Wilson 10 round magazines I own, so today I went to the range with all four 10 rounders, one of my wilson 8 round mags, and both of the factory 8 round magazines. Being under the impression that two of the 10 rounders were exhibiting this tendency, and the other two weren't, I was hoping to determine which two it was so that I could contact Wilson to arrange for repair or replacement. With that in mind, I did all of my shooting only loading 5 rounds into whatever magazine (so to increase the number of times the "last" round would occur.

To my dismay, the phenomenon occurred (I didn't keep track, so this is an estimate) 6 or so times during the 95 rounds I put through the gun. It's both annoying, and disturbing, because it's starting to shake my confidence in what is otherwise a stupendous weapon. Once or twice I noticed that instead of the round leaving the magazine, it had only slid forward somewhat. It occurred in at least three of the 10 round mags, once in the Wilson 8 round mag, and once in the factory 8 round mag. The fact that it occurred in both of the 8 round mags is disturbing because I only used those once or twice each, so the rate of occurrence was relatively high for those. I fired 75 rounds of Winchester white box 230gr ball, 20 rounds 165gr hydrashoks, and 7 rounds Golden Sabre 230gr. The malfunction occurred with both the winchesters and the hydrashoks.

I've only been shooting autoloaders for a couple of years (I'm 25), and don't get out to the range very often, so experience base is too limited to allow me to explain what's happening. I'm hoping that some of you wise people have encountered a similar situation and can help me out. Last resort is to contact Valtro/Mr. Jardine next week, but if possible I'd like to eliminate or confirm that possibility that it's operator error before doing so.

Any thoughts or insight that can be offered are most appreciate, and if I happened to leave out any pertinent details just let me know.

[Mark IV Series 80]

Hello CaptainSanity,

I would ask Wilson to replace your 8-round springs and followers with 7-round springs and followers.

8-round magazines have given me problems.

I've never had a problem with a 7-round Wilson mag.

I would also replace the 10-rounders with 7-round Wilsons.

___________________________________________________

From a previous thread:

In my experience, the 7-round magazines are much more reliable than the 8-rounders.

My Combat Commander and Government Model, which are 100% reliable with factory ammo and Wilson 7-round magazines, will choke when an 8-round magazine is introduced into the equation.

Many shooters find that they have to slam the magazine hard to get it to go home when fully loaded with 8 rounds.
Sometimes, the magazine doesn't go all the way home, and then the shooter has a 1-shot pistol rather than a 9-shot pistol.

The magazine springs do wear out more quickly with the 8 round mags, because the spring has to be under more compression to fit into a smaller area.

My advice..... If you want top reliability in your 1911-type, stay with the 7-round magazines.

[Sean Smith]

Ask Valtro.

Unless you are doing something goofy, like limp-wristing the gun or bumping the slide stop with your thumb, operator error is pretty doubtful. Yeah, theoretically 7 round mags are more reliable... fewer rounds more spring more better. That's why I use 8 instead of 9 round mags in a Delta Elite (10mm so you get 1 extra round "standard"). But having said that, Wilson 8 rounders are usually very reliable, and the gun should certainly work with the OEM magazine without problems.

[railroader]

You have a high dollar gun I would contact Valtro. I have a kimber and a low dollar armscor 1911 that will work with any decent brand of mag, 8 and 10 rounders included. Your valtro should too. Mark

[asiparks]

Hey Cap'n. Call John Jardine as your first resort, and describe the problem to him, (he's really very friendly) and see what he says. His customer service is terrific and if it is the gun, he will fix it for you. Otherwise people will be telling you to file this or that down, or to ditch your 10 round mags.......oh, oops.
My Valtro works cheerfully with any mag I bung in it, and it seems a bit unlikely that all your mags would be sketchy.
good luck !

PS of course it could just be you :D

[Tamara]

The slide stop is being triggered accidentally. If not externally by your thumb, then internally by a bullet nose.

[lunde]

My Valtro doesn't do this, but then again, I just got it, and put a mere 250 rounds through it thus far.

In the 500 rounds I put through my Kimber Tactical Ultra II, I experienced premature slide lock three times, using Wilson mags, during the first 300 rounds. During cleaning, I noticed copper marks on the inside edge of the slide stop lever, which meant that rounds were touching. I did two things to attempt to sure this: 1) bought three CobraMags from Tripp Research, and 2) bought an Ed Brown slide stop lever from Brownells. The Ed Brown slide stop lever doesn't protrude inward nearly as far as the original Kimber part. In the two rounds since then, no malfunctions whatsoever.

[CGofMP]

Echo Echo Echo.....

Sir, call John Jardine at (510) 489-8477 just as soon as you can do so. Leave a quick message sating you have had feeding problems and give youre phone number at the beginning and end of the message in a clear voice. (the machine is set for short messages by the way so be concise)

I guarantee John will want to hear of this. It could be a number of causes many of which are mentioned above.
When he calls you back John will probably ask questions about exactly what the Jam s looked like as well as other querries about ammo type, your shooting style, grip and stance, magazines used, etc.

If John has ANY inkling its a problem with his product, the lifetime guarantee will not take your lifetime to perform, you WILL be booted to the top of the 'to do' list (as he does with any repair) and John will get this taken care of. :-)


Again give John a call about your Valtro . The answering machine answers as " Jardine's Custom " so do not be put off by that. (510) 489-8477

Take care,
Charles

[CaptainSanity]

Thanks for all the replies.

I intend to call Jardine today and leave a message describing the problem. The main reason why I posted here was to try to eliminate the "idiot" variable in the equation. My first handgun was/is my sig 2340, and for a while I was encountering a tendency for the slide to lock back even though the mag still had rounds in it. This was quickly diagnosed by someone on the sig forum as me "high thumbing" and pushing the slide stop.

I've thought that this could be what I'm doing, but it doesn't seem likely because 1.) the slide stop is small and forward of my fingers, unlike my sig that had a large stop right above my thumbs, and 2.) the problem only occurs on the last or sometimes the second to last roun in the mag.


Tamara- A question for you: Does your theory explain why the cartridge will pop out of the magazine and often completely leave the weapon? This seems to be the most perplexing aspect of the issue.

But nevertheless, thanks for all the help and I will try to remember to post about the resolution of the problem, whatever it turns out to be.

[WonderNine]

Impossible, Valtros are the best deal in 1911's. Or so I keep hearing!

[1911Tuner]

Howdy,

The live round ejection is due to the inertial resistance of the round
causing the magazine spring to be compressed for a split second
as the pistol torques upward in recoil, and doesn't keep the round
nailed to the feed lips. As the round "floats" the slide smacks the
impact surface in the frame, and jerks the pistol rearward sharply.
The round tries to stand still as the gun moves away from it, and
winds up ahead of where it should be. Sometimes, this causes
rideover feeds, (bolt-over-base) push-feeds, where the round
is knocked ahead of the extractor, and the extractor is forced to
snap over the rim. In extreme cases, the round escapes, and the
spring jacks it out the port. If it occurs on the last round, the slide
locks, and leaves the round laying loose on top.

A new magazine spring will help, but may not eliminate it for very long.
It probably won't happen with a 7-round magazine with a conventional
follower...with a dimple in the top. That's what the dimple is there for.
Oddly enough, the old GI "Hardball" style magazines, with their late-release
feed lips also helps to prevent it. The newer style magazines that allow
for hollowpoint and semi-wadcutter ammo can release the round too
early, and sometimes too abruptly.

Inertia is the culprit in many many burps...and straying very far from
original design parameters is another.

Cheers!
Tuner

[CaptainSanity]

(Any derogatory comments in the following post were generated by me. Nothing in the following post should be construed to cast aspertions on Mr. Jardine's character in anything other than a positive manner, i.e. anything bad or sarcastic written about me are the things I'm thinking about myself, not paraphrases or quotes of anything Mr. Jardine told me, unless specifically identified as such)

When in doubt, I am an idiot.

CAlled and left message at 7:14pm sunday night

Got call back at 8:51 pm sunday night. AFter 10 mins discussion the esteemed Mr. Jardine suggests we meet at Target Master's in Milpitas so he can test fire the gun (and ascertain the competency of the operator).


blah blah blah, long story that I'm too embarrassed and irritated at myself to explain in detail blah blah blah

Bottom Line: The gun is perfect. The magazines are fine. The operator is a dufus (It wasn't the slide stop).

p.s. I don't blame those of you who told me to call Valtro right away, but I know myself and should have known better. The equation had three variables: "a" = a pistol fitted by someone with a cult following because of his amazing craftsmanship, "b" = magazines from one of the most respected names in 1911 mags, "c" = CaptainSanity, retard extraordinaire. It was fairly obvious, other than I'm too ignorant about the workings of something I paid $1300 for to realize what I was doing.


bah. Now I get to go to bed so I can get up, go to work, and be an idiot there all day long. Oh well, at least the pistol is fine.








:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[PCRCCW]

The first step to true healing is admitting you have a problem :scrutiny: :rolleyes:
Shoot well....................

[Al Thompson]

Captain, don't be so hard on yourself. It happens to all of us.

[1911Tuner]

Just out of curiosity...What was the problem?

[Jim Watson]

Yes, please 'fess up in detail.
How any sort of operator error can cause those malfs in a new high dollar gun with name brand mags and factory ammo will be a valuable lesson.

[Shmackey]

I third the motion. What'd you do?

[CGofMP]

Well, at least the rapid response shows what Jardine's customer service is like on the Valtro Handguns (http://www.valtrousa.com/) :D

Captain, you may want to consider sharing your story so that others who might be having similar problems will be able to correct them using your experience as a vicarious learning experience. Still, we all understand that this feels kinda humbling so nobody is gonna think poorly of you either way.

Do not be forced to do it, and if you DO let us know, well... lets just say each of us has their own "I was an idiot when..." stories. :rolleyes:

Glad it all worked out for you and your new Valtro. :)

Charles

http://www.valtrousa.com/adpostingimage.jpg (http://www.valtrousa.com/)

[asiparks]

Surely not limp wristing ??!! Best fess up or we will jump to all manner of probably non complementary assumptions that be passed down from father to son in tones of slack jawed disbelief on the way to becoming a pistoleering urban legend. " ...turns out he was holding the pistol in his mouth, son, and using his l'il toe to pull the trigger...." etc

Nice of Mr Jardine to come and sort you out. Wonder if Mr Baer or Mr Wilson do that kinda thing..?

[CaptainSanity]

The gist of John's diagnosis was that my non-kosher shooting grip was probably causing me to press the magazine release somewhat, thereby moving or allowing the magazine to move which was somehow responsible for the malfunction. I'm too accustomed to my sig sauers and had to this point resisted riding the safety, preferring to keep a more universal habit across all of my weapons. I've also never received any formal handgun shooting instruction to help me learn how to establish a truly proper grip, and hadn't had the nuances of a proper 1911 grip explained to me. Sorta like playing tennis without being taught the nuances of holding the racket.

Sorry that it wasn't a very articulated explanation, but it's almost time to leave work and I'm in a hurry. mmm...internet at work

Suffice it to say that the gun got 100+ rounds through it, with me accounting for about 75 of those, without a hiccup.

And as the problem now seems to be resolved I'd like to iterate (seeing as I'm probably the first person I've seen to mention a Valtro in anything even remotely approaching a negative light) that this without a doubt the sweetest shooting autoloader I've ever fired. My experience is fairly limited when it comes to 1911's (only shot one or two, but they were decent, as I recall), but I've take turns on glocks, USPs, my sig sauers, rugers, walther P99, springfield XD's, berettas, and this thing blows them all away. I've always been a better shot than your average casual shooter, especially considering my lack of actual instruction and limited range time, but I can shoot this better at 15 yards than I could my previous favorite pistol (my sig 229) at 10.

When I decided last summer that my meager collection needed a 1911, I looked at it as I do most expensive purchases for which there are many possible options; I researched it fairly carefully, and after seeing that the consensus of many "in the know" was that the Valtro is an extremely high quality pistol and arguably the best value of all 1911's as far as price vs. quality is concerned, I bought it. I investigated Les Baer TRS and Springfield TRP (both similarly priced), but neither of those had the unambiguously positive following that the Valtro already had at that point.

I am also quite stunned at the tenacity with with Mr. Jardine tackled the issue once he got my message. Arranging (it was his suggestion, actually) to meet a customer at 9:30 on a sunday night to determine if his product is malfunctioning reveals a dedication to quality that I think one would find in very few practioners of any trade/art. This only heightens my confidence in the pistol, because if the person who's responsible for its final production cares about a possible malfunction so much it speaks volumes to how much attention went into its completion.

Anyhow, in my typically long winded style, that's that. If you don't agree with the diagnosis, all I can offer is that the gun went through 10 or more magazines without a single hiccup on the last round as it had been doing, which was a first, and obviously considerably better than what it did a day before.

[10-Ring]

Don't be so hard on yourself! At least it was an easy fix & now you can enjoy your new pistol ;)

[lunde]

This makes me want to shoot my Valtro some more. I have four CobraMags on the way from Tripp Research, and I am itching to try them with my Valtro. I have Officer-sized ones for my Kimber Tactical Ultra II, and they work very well.

[Tamara]

Arranging (it was his suggestion, actually) to meet a customer at 9:30 on a sunday night to determine if his product is malfunctioning reveals a dedication to quality that I think one would find in very few practioners of any trade/art.

That alone is enough to make me start looking for a Valtro to add to my 1911 stable. :cool:

[Sean Smith]

The fact that the one case of a Valtro not working I've heard of consisted of operator error ain't too bad, either. :D

[Shmackey]

My experience is fairly limited when it comes to 1911's (only shot one or two, but they were decent, as I recall), but I've take turns on glocks, USPs, my sig sauers, rugers, walther P99, springfield XD's, berettas, and this thing blows them all away.

Well yeah.

Now get that thumb up on that safety. That bore axis goes right into your hand.

[Tamara]

The fact that the one case of a Valtro not working I've heard of consisted of operator error ain't too bad, either. :D

Valtro will turn out lemons sooner or later, too. The fact that there's only a tiny fraction of Valtros out there compared to other premium-brand 1911's pretty much guarantees that, given remotely similar percentages, the total number will be much, much smaller. ;)

Still, they're extremely beautifully-made guns, and this may be the most heartwarming customer service tale since Yes, Virginia, There Is A Santa Claus. It truly makes me want to go out and buy one, just to support a guy who stands behind his product like that. :cool: