Skool bureaucrats shocked at HS shooting range


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AZRickD
January 6, 2008, 01:29 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1064706

Pols stunned shooting range operating at high school
Aim to stop it
By Mike Underwood
Saturday, January 5, 2008

Shocked city councilors are probing how school officials have allowed a Southie classroom to be used as a firing range by Junior ROTC students.

Education and public safety leaders were stunned to hear that a basement classroom in Monument High School on G Street is used by the military group to teach teenagers how to fire air rifles at targets.

Im shocked and surprised to hear that this is even happening. I dont think it is appropriate at all, said Councilor Chuck Turner, chairman of the council education committee.

Ten city schools run junior Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) programs, designed to promote citizenship and teach youngsters self-discipline, and Monument High has approved the firing range.

A total of 186 students at the South Boston Education Complex are currently enrolled in JROTC with 29 from Monument High - 18 of them on the marksmanship team.

East Boston High School has also had a marksmanship range and team for about three years.

Councilor Stephen J. Murphy, chairman of the citys public safety committee, is a fan of the ROTC program but wants to put an end to classroom firing ranges.

It has to be stopped inside a public school and there has to be a question over who supervises this. It definitely needs to be called into question, he said.

A youth worker who works to steer kids away from gun violence was stunned by the news.

I cant believe a school could condone the use of any weapons. What kind of message are they giving to the kids? asked Maurice Nobles Jr., a life skills manager at Bird Street Community Center in Dorchester.

A school employee notified the Herald about the practice after seeing two teenagers firing weapons at targets without supervision or warning signs in a locked classroom in early December.

But Boston Public Schools spokesman Jonathan Palumbo said,There is no state law that prohibits such activities. Every safety precaution is taken, both for the students involved and anyone else who may be in the building at the time of the practice.

ROTC spokesman Paul Kotakis said individual schools decide whether marksmanship training can be given on school property and that it is not unusual for schools to allow the practice.

JROTC regulations require students to have completed a training course before being allowed to fire weapons on a range, and they must be supervised by an instructor at all times.

Kotakis said students train using model 853 Daisy air rifles, which use manually pumped air to fire .177 caliber pellets. The weapon is designed for high accuracy.
Comments

(Comments link at the bottom of the page)

E-mail:
letterstotheeditor@bostonherald-com

Councilor Stephen J. Murphy
Stephen.Murphy@cityofboston.gov

City Council, Main Office
City.Council@cityofboston.gov

Jonathan D Pizzi, Principal
Mailing Address: 95 G. Street
South Boston Education Complex
South Boston, MA 02127
Phone: (617) 635-9865
FAX: (617) 635-9711
E-mail: monument@boston.k12.ma.us

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hqmhqm
January 6, 2008, 01:32 PM
welcome to Massachusetts. Live free or here.

ASM826
January 6, 2008, 03:06 PM
My son is on th JROTC marksmanship team. It teaches all the essential shooting skills, using air rifles. Accurate little rifles.

As to the shocked questions, my answer is, it's teaching them the skills they are going to need on the battlefield in the coming wars America will have to fight.

I don't know what those wars will be, but inevitably we will fight them. And if we keep raising them the way Boston wants, we'll lose them.:banghead:

taliv
January 6, 2008, 03:17 PM
when i was in JROTC (mid-80s, Alabama), we used real rifles in our school's basement.

Hoppy590
January 6, 2008, 03:25 PM
welcome to Massachusetts. Live free or here.

worth repeating...

Old Fuff
January 6, 2008, 03:36 PM
Perhaps among other things, this bunch should be informed that air rifle (and pistol) shooting is a recognized Olympic sport.

If this crowd of misfits had been in charge back in 1776 we'd still be living under the Union Jack. :cuss: :banghead:

AZRickD
January 6, 2008, 04:20 PM
I hope y'all have sent your comments to the addresses noted above.

Remember, this forum is not an echo chamber.

Rick

kcmarine
January 6, 2008, 04:25 PM
I wish we had JROTC at my high school. I don't think we do. But I also wish we could have a rifle shooting team:(

Ditto_95
January 6, 2008, 04:31 PM
"welcome to Massachusetts. Live free or here."
Exactly who will protect the USA borders?
Exactly who will serve in our military?
Exactly who will we rely on to help when there is trouble threatening the US?
Our ROTC cadets, that's who.
These young men and women are the future leaders of our military. They feel compelled to start now and I applaud them.

bogie
January 6, 2008, 04:39 PM
Idea: When you send your supportive e-mail, ask them if they need any supplies or coaching for their future olympians?

AZRickD
January 6, 2008, 05:13 PM
Here's the Arizona Junior High Power Rifle Team that went to Camp Perry in 2007.

I think I'll send them this pic as well.

Should be enough to make those dues-paying NEA members soil themselves.

http://members.cox.net/azjrhp/p07-05.jpg

SuperNaut
January 6, 2008, 05:51 PM
When I was in JROTC at Ben Lomond HS we used a shooting range in the basement too.

jmr40
January 6, 2008, 07:57 PM
It seems that the school, and school system are very supportive of the shooting team. It is the city councilmen and other civic leaders who are shocked and need convincing.

My concern is how these 2 young men were allowed to shoot unsupervised. Did school officials not supervise them adequately or did the students knowingly violate established rules.

This is a good example of why we need to be careful of our actions. Others are just waiting for something to use against us.

Blackfork
January 6, 2008, 08:04 PM
Just remember: Those kids TOUCHING those rifles is a felony in California......and that's what they have planned for all of us, everywhere.

lacoochee
January 6, 2008, 08:14 PM
Just remember: Those kids TOUCHING those rifles is a felony in California......and that's what they have planned for all of us, everywhere.

Edit: Oops just realized you meant the AR's in the posted picture... Sidebar: In California it's illegal (a felony in fact) for a minor to touch a rifle even if that minor is under the supervision of an adult? Wow....

My concern is how these 2 young men were allowed to shoot unsupervised. Did school officials not supervise them adequately or did the students knowingly violate established rules.

They are shooting Daisy AIR Rifles...

Also it does not give the age of the "kids" in question, the could have been 18 if that's an issue in Mass as well.

We used .22's in my JROTC program in Killeen, in an actual range attached to the the High School.

I also loved how the parallel was drawn in the article between crime and guns as if guns cause the crime and not the lack of adult participation in the development of young people in the inner city. If knowing how to use a rifle causes youth to turn to crime then we have huge problem in the making when all of the 18 and 19 years old soldiers return from overseas.

AZRickD
January 6, 2008, 08:30 PM
This is a good example of why we need to be careful of our actions.
I've often been exposed to people who are so cautious that they can't bring themselves to act... ever.

Having read the article a second time, given the angst of the antis in that article, the weight of the activism is toward supporting the mere concept of firearms training. "Proper supervision" whatever that is, is a sideshow.

This forum is for action. Take it. Or not.

Rick

TEDDY
January 6, 2008, 10:13 PM
I came from Malden Mass a suburb of boston.we had a range in the attic(the school was granate block and 3 stories high)10 position and the mecanical drawing teacher was instuctor.80 boys and 40 girls.we shot the william randolf
Hearst postal matches and won or second every yr.gov guns and ammo.52 win.shot against other schools.I am going to see if I cant get the NRA to list the clubs which include legion and church schools and colleges.what this country has come to!! :uhoh::confused: :banghead:

AZRickD
January 6, 2008, 10:40 PM
The girl in the middle?

She set a school record (as a freshman) at Texas Christian last year.

Grump
January 6, 2008, 10:45 PM
When I was in JROTC at Ben Lomond HS we used a shooting range in the basement too.
When I was briefly in Army ROTC at BYU, there was NOT a range at the combined USA/USAF ROTC building, though there was reportedly space "planned" for one "someday". I think it was supposed to extend under the parking lot...

Anyway, you Ben Lomond boys & girls hosted a match one year and invited us, Highland High (still had their own range before, IIRC, ventilation problems shut it down), the Yutes Navy people, and who knows who else.

We trounced your butts!!!:neener:

Our fearless leader and best shot on the team was Steve Badger, the man who was killed by a mental case named Kreutzer at Ft. Bragg in 1995 (the sicko who opened up on the troops as they assembled for PT in the early morning). Specific warnings were ignored, one died, one was paralyzed, the prosecution was botched, and the death sentence was overturned.

He (Badger) was a leader of men, and led the charge up the hill--unarmed--to save his troops. If you want more men like him in this country, keep the rifle ranges OPEN! Kreutzer was evil and clever, and could have done his crimes in probably any country in the world, regardless of local "gun laws".

btucker1947
January 6, 2008, 10:48 PM
That's great to teach kids how to shoot, as far as the Bureaucrats go they would like to take all our guns. This is what Texas A&M came up with :

The following is the 2007 winning entry from an annual contest at Texas

A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a

contemporary term.


This year's term: "Political Correctness".


"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical,

liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,

which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up

a turd by the clean end."

spaceCADETzoom
January 19, 2008, 12:23 AM
IT's not a felony for a minor to touch a rifle in California. You all know better.

Why isn't anyone noting that these are AIR rifles...i.e. not weapons at all. THey shoot pellets or BBs.

And it's JROTC. These are not the future leaders of the military...JROTC is akin to the boy scouts. It fosters citizenship and duty. IT has nothing to do with training soldiers (you can cynically say it pushes kids to enlist, but thats another story, and it deals with activity AFTER JROTC). Let's not confuse ROTC with JROTC because of the similar names. That said, no one complains about the Y shooting BB guns at summer camp, etc... then again, maybe the areas of schools with schoolboards that have knee jerk problems with these things don't have a YMCA or kids that go to summercamp.

I'll also wonder if there'd be an outcry for archery practice? There wouldnt be an outcry for actual Rifle Marksmanship (i.e. non-air rifle) in most areas of the country. Culture. Ignorance. Ghetto-"guns bad." Hicktown-"gun's a gun, car's a car"

spaceCADETzoom
January 19, 2008, 12:34 AM
I just realized how out of touch the ghetto is. Not only are they clueless about guns...but now there is sheer ignorance of simple DAISY BB GUNS. They must think A Christmas Story on TV every year is an evil, evil piece of propaganda. You'll shoot your eye out kid!

.38 Special
January 19, 2008, 01:47 AM
IT's not a felony for a minor to touch a rifle in California. You all know better.
Well, minors may not own "assault rifles" in California, and loaning an "assault rifle" to anyone in California is a felony. Loaning one to a minor carries "enhancements".

I can understand how a Texan would have a hard time believing California gun laws, though, so don't feel bad!

2Ais4U
January 19, 2008, 01:51 AM
WOW! I'm in MCJROTC and we just clear out the gym and shoot in there. These *********s would flip their effin wigs if they knew that.

alsaqr
January 19, 2008, 09:21 AM
"Shocked city councilors are probing how school officials have allowed a Southie classroom to be used as a firing range by Junior ROTC students.

Education and public safety leaders were stunned to hear that a basement classroom in Monument High School on G Street is used by the military group to teach teenagers how to fire air rifles at targets."

Wow!!! The sheep herders are shocked-how quaint.

plexreticle
January 19, 2008, 09:40 AM
It's much safer than playing football.

Floppy_D
January 19, 2008, 09:50 AM
We shot air rifles in our JROTC classroom when I was in HS, 97-00. It had several windows facing the courtyard (the wall to our side, not the backstop) and we still shot 4 days a week. Incident and injury free for 4 years, say that about any other team sport.

Brass Fetcher
January 19, 2008, 10:07 AM
It's a government from the Northeast. Don't be surprised.

Randy in Arizona
January 19, 2008, 10:11 AM
Shocked city councilors are probing how school officials have allowed a Southie classroom to be used as a firing range by Junior ROTC students.

Education and public safety leaders were stunned to hear that a basement classroom in Monument High School on G Street is used by the military group to teach teenagers how to fire air rifles at targets.

Im shocked and surprised to hear that this is even happening. I dont think it is appropriate at all, said Councilor Chuck Turner, chairman of the council education committee.


Should be enough to make those dues-paying NEA members soil themselves.
Gentlemen, we need to come to the aid of these poor fools.
Send Depends!

It seems that the school, and school system are very supportive of the shooting team.
Fantastic!

It is the city councilmen and other civic leaders who are shocked and need convincing.
Good luck! Their heads are buried, hopefully in the sand. However, I suspect that their ears are always warm.

spaceCADETzoom
January 19, 2008, 12:45 PM
.38 special, I'm not a Texan. I'm a 3rd generation native Californian. Theres a lot of misinformation spread about TX. I'll say this: Texas is a much better state to BUY guns in. But California is a much better state to SHOOT guns in. BLM is an unheard of myth in non-western states. They all have to pay someone or some entity to shoot. GUnshows are a joke. Save the loss of EBRs about 8 years ago, CA gunshows are by far the greatest in the union. Sucks California likes overlegislating their lives. But contrary to rantings of Texans who've never lived elsewhere, California is worth fighting for! It has way more guns than any other state including TX, it's just that it also has the super block of SF and LA dictating all.

Kids shooting AR15s for a school marksmanship team. Not a felony in California.

Owen
January 19, 2008, 01:27 PM
where is the paper from the USG that performed a statistical analysis on kids that shoot that ended up showing that 'gun kids" tended to be much better citizens?

TexasRifleman
January 19, 2008, 01:31 PM
IT's not a felony for a minor to touch a rifle in California. You all know better.

It's a felony to have those ARs though.......

AZRickD
January 19, 2008, 03:23 PM
I had no idea this thread was still active.

Has anyone received a response? Not me. :)

Rick

'We should establish shooting galleries in all the large public and military schools, should maintain national target ranges in different parts of the country, and should in every way encourage the formation of rifle clubs throughout all parts of the land. The little Republic of Switzerland offers us an excellent example in all matters connected with building up an efficient citizen soldiery."

Theodore Roosevelt, Sixth Annual Message to Congress, on Dec. 6, 1906

Librarian
January 19, 2008, 03:51 PM
It's a felony to have those ARs though.......Not necessarily. Had they been in California, it's possible they would have been properly registered.

California AWs are OK for 18 and older:CALIFORNIA CODES
PENAL CODE
SECTION 12280-12282

12280. (a) (1) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or
causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into
the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who
gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as
provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction
shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for four, six,
or eight years.

....

(k) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to either of the following:
(1) A person who lawfully possesses and has registered an assault
weapon or .50 BMG rifle pursuant to this chapter who lends that
assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle to another if all the following
apply:
(A) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent
is 18 years of age or over and is not in a class of persons
prohibited from possessing firearms by virtue of Section 12021 or
12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code.
(B) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent
remains in the presence of the registered possessor of the assault
weapon or .50 BMG rifle.
(C) The assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is possessed at any of the
following locations:
(i) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business
license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.

12285 (d) No person who is under the age of 18 years, no person who is
prohibited from possessing a firearm by Section 12021 or 12021.1, and
no person described in Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code may register or possess an assault weapon or .50
BMG rifle.

ornithoid
January 19, 2008, 04:03 PM
welcome to Massachusetts. Live free or here.


hqmhqm, that elicited a true, honest-to-goodness laugh-out-loud from me. I love it! I'll have to use it on relatives I have there! :neener:

(It's also good for NYers...)

Rachen
January 19, 2008, 04:42 PM
Welcome to America Maurice.
Either respect our customs, or move to England or anywhere. If you don't like us, we don't want to see you either.

Gun violence my a** This is about RESPONSIBLE GUN USE. Please don't warp notions about firearms ownership.

People like that MAKES ME SICK.

By God if I were walking into any place and hear some "responsible community activist" trying to "teach kids" about how evil guns are, I will personally walk up to him/her and tell them that this is political indoctrination, and if they don't stop, I will resort to writing libelous and scandalous articles about them in the newspaper. After all, if they lie, SO CAN I. And if you don't want to read in the next edition of Anytown Post, USA about how you were brought up by a crackwhore and taught to satisfy customers in the living room at a very young age, then please don't make up lies slandering gun ownership. Otherwise your own medicine will be injected back into your mouth.

I am serious.

geekWithA.45
January 19, 2008, 04:45 PM
The skool bureaucrats have determined that it is in their interest that their students shall never know the dignity of competence at arms.

Crunker1337
January 19, 2008, 04:51 PM
I see no problem with teaching marksmanship in a safe manner. I just don't believe that the ROTC has the right to use school property without renting it.

spaceCADETzoom
January 19, 2008, 07:06 PM
It's JROTC. It's a school class and/or extracuricular event. THere's no "renting" involved. JROTC is not ROTC, for the last time. It is not for training officers or soldiers. It's akin to the boyscouts--fostering good citizenship. But in JROTC's case it also a gradeable class in HS. Does FFA need to rent space? Does Key Club? Or more appropriate to the comparson: does the yearbook staff? It is a gradeable curricular class and extracurricular activity.

Librarian
January 19, 2008, 08:39 PM
Schools apply to get JROTC (https://www.usarmyjrotc.com/jrotc/dt) programs, and The Army provides each unit uniforms, instructional and other materials, and shares the cost of the military instructors.

It's not like USA is imposing these things on a school or district.

langenc
January 19, 2008, 11:14 PM
I cant believe a school could condone the use of any weapons. What kind of message are they giving to the kids?



Where is "the use of weapons" being condoned??

Looks like the school is TEACHING. Challenging a student to excell at something. That is a really neat concept.

Crunker1337
January 20, 2008, 01:29 AM
Ah, I wasn't aware that it was considered a graded activity. If it was a "community" activity, I'd be rather upset if they didn't have to pay for use of the school. For instance, a religious group I'm aware has to pay a good deal of money for use of my high school, and it could be considered a group fostering "good citizenship".

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