[plumberroy]

and startrek type sensors? I read several shooting,hunting and survival forums the majority of people that post think that deer are armor plated
that you HAVE to have 3000ft/bls of energy and be able to shoot 1/2 a mile to kill one [and kicks so hard your grandchildren feel it]:banghead:. same with turkeys hevi-shot and a 12 ga choked down to 28 ga or a half a pound of shot to kill a turkey:banghead:I see this attitude in most types of hunting and shooting .
First let me say that if that is what you want to use I don't have a problen with that. it is the attitde that If you don't use a cannon your wasting you time I have a problem with :cuss:
Our ancestors hunted mamoths with spears eastern native American bows were rarely above 30# draw weight and sense we are still here they must have did all right. deer are culled for crop damage all the time with a 22mag rifle though the chest .
Am I saying we need to go back to spears? No but we do need to quit telling newbie tha a 30-30 bounces off a deer and if you get within 300 yards of a deer you better go buy a lottery ticket because It is you lucky day
Yes I'm being sarcastic with my examples
A Trophy buck killed at 600 yards or a gobler at 50+ yards shows me you have good equipment a 5 year old doe kill at 10 yards or a turkey killed with a 410 with Winchester AA's tell me you are a HUNTER
Roy

[Art Eatman]

I don't really worry much about what folks say on the Errornet about what's needed, or what's the best for this, that or the other. But, I started out a long time back and learned on my own--with some input from my father and uncle. Some folks are just now beginning, and are trying to learn.

Ya gotta remember that different folks live in diffferent areas, with different needs in equpment, and with different styles of hunting. There ain't no "one size fits all". The forests of Pennsylvania are different from the swamps of Florida or the plains of Wyoming.

I started out with an '06 in 1950, 'cause that's what my daddy used. That's easy enough to figure, right? Well, it works. Me, I'm a mechanic and engineer: "If it works, it's good." Empirical, if you will. End of concern. :)

So I got a .243, and it works. But I don't think it will work on a Ma Bell deer as well as the '06.

As far as shot distance having anything to do with one's skill as a hunter, I strongly disagree. I've hit deer in the rump with a pebble at five yards; I've made one-shot kills at 350 yards and more. IOW, I mostly just worry about a clean/clear shot, and I figure that if it's no more than 400 yards out, I own it. I really don't worry much about some things. I got more time around a campfire than many folks have upright and breathing.

[sammoh]

Well, I'm not entirely sure if I could kill a turkey at 10 yds with a .410 that's an awfully small amount of lead to send flying at the turkey's neck/head. I can tell you that turkey has some armor. I've seen shot from a 12ga bounce off a turkey's body at 20 yds.

As for deer, yeah, I'm with you about guns. I can say I've taken deer at 10 yards with my long bow. I've also taken bear at 25 yds with my long bow. Not something everyone wants to do though. That's if I want to hunt not just for meat but for the sake of the hunt... tracking, stalking and taking the shot.

If I hunt purely for meat (during deer gun season basically) then I don't condemn those that decide they need a 30-06 with custom loads for max penetration/expansion etc. I've seen guys out there with 7mm mags trying to take deer in brush. I've also seen one fool who decided to go white tail hunting with a .460 Weatherby Mag. I simply asked him how much of the deer he wanted to eat but hey, its his choice. Me, I prefer a lever action 30-30.

Keep in mind that not all hunters that head out for deer season are experienced hunters nor do they put in anywhere near the amount of range time that some of us do. I put in about 10 hrs of range time every week, more if i can swing it. (That includes half the time being spent shooting my long bow - I'm a traditionalist when it comes to archery). I know of many hunters that only go to the range the week before deer gun season to sight in and refresh themselves. If that's the case, they'll need the power and distance and all. I don't hold it against them.

Plumberroy, if you can take a turkey at 10yds with a 410 loaded with Win AAs then you're a hell of a hunter and a hell of a shot, much better than I am. I'll stick with my 12ga with 3"mag turkey load.

As for the attitude of "if you aren't using a hand cannon...you're wasting your time" well, a lot of these guys need that hand cannon to take that 600yd shot and make it count. Hell, I can put lead on paper out to 500yds with a good rifle but that doesn't mean I'm going to take the shot. I personally prefer to take the shorter range shots. Taking that long of a shot is a skill in its own, scope or no scope. I'm not a trophy hunter though so I wouldn't care if there were a 30pt buck standing out in a field 600yds from me. I'd just glass it and then decide its probably too tough to eat anyway and let it go in search of a younger target. That's me though.

Way I see it, let them go out there with their cannons and blow half the deer away for a trophy. I look on a long range shot with awe. Sometimes, I look at those shots and say, "Da****, I don't think I could have made that shot. Nice shot!"

You and me, we can go hunt the way we want to. If you want a real challenge as a hunter though, try stalking deer through brush with a 68" long longbow and wooden arrows.

[HankB]

Deer became armor plated when the manufacturers of firearms and ammunition - and their paid mouthpieces in the gun rags - discovered that Magnums translated to higher Markups.

[eliphalet]

when did critters get Armor plated?A large percentage comes from magazine writers promoting a manufactures new caliber, gun, or product and with it a lot of hype and hoopla over said product being the latest, greatest thing on the market and how superior it is and you just can't do without it.

The fact that we are no longer primarily a nation living in a rural or hunter type of environment where kids can grow up shooting, and hunting learning as they go, where this kinda misinformation is treated as it should. Guys want to be informed, responsible hunters read this and are lead astray. Just my own opinion.

[plumberroy]

Plumberroy, if you can take a turkey at 10yds with a 410 loaded with Win AAs then you're a hell of a hunter and a hell of a shot, much better than I am. I'll stick with my 12ga with 3"mag turkey load.

In the early 90's My Dad was in poor health but wanted a turkey just once after discussing the hunt I was to set behind him and call, tap him when to take the shot a when the jake went behind a tree at 14 step away I taped Dad on the shoulder when the bird step out Dad pulled the trigger the ammo was remington express #6's 3" 410 out of an old mossberg bolt action 14 steps yearling jake I did not even shoot yet it is a true trophy in my mind
I have taken 5 turkey all with a muzzle loading 12 ga
Taking that long of a shot is a skill in its own, scope or no scope. I'm not a trophy hunter though so I wouldn't care if there were a 30pt buck standing out in a field 600yds from me. I'd just glass it and then decide its probably too tough to eat anyway and let it go in search of a younger target. That's me though.

I agree with this it takes a lot of skill to make long range shots it takes a lot of practice to develope that skill my problem is that younger folks are be lead to beleive if if you can't do that you won't be successful hunters and the guys that show up to the range the week before season to shoot 3shots through there rifle to see where it hits has no busness taking long range shots
If I hunt purely for meat (during deer gun season basically) then I don't condemn those that decide they need a 30-06 with custom loads for max penetration/expansion etc. I've seen guys out there with 7mm mags trying to take deer in brush. I've also seen one fool who decided to go white tail hunting with a .460 Weatherby Mag. I simply asked him how much of the deer he wanted to eat but hey, its his choice. Me, I prefer a lever action 30-30.

I don't condemn the choice my problem is the people that tell a young beginning hunter that he has to have a 460 to be successful

I do not condemn any legal ethical hunting method I have known people that could not ethiclly take a 75 yard shot with any thing I know people that can ethically take a 500 yard shot my thing is there to many people thinking this is the only to hunt
I have hunted in western ok and during the time I though I wanted to be a truck driver [that didn't last long lol!] use to love to go though wy. just to see the pronghorn.if people take antelope with a bow it ought to be simple to do it with a 30/30
You and me, we can go hunt the way we want to. If you want a real challenge as a hunter though, try stalking deer through brush with a 68" long longbow and wooden arrows.
I have killed many deer we had to: to eat where I grew up so I by chioce I don't kill many deer I have taken groundhog, squirrel, rabbit and a coyote with a bow my 66 bear tigercat is 62" the bow I shoot most is a 69 bear kodiak mag 40# carbon arrows just ain't got soul
Roy
B.T.W Dad has went on to be with Jesus,and that old mossberg 410 is hanging on the wall above me as I set here

[plumberroy]

HankB, Eliphelat I agree that has a lot to do with it "pay more money and you can be as good as ther guy who learns how to hunt with out putting in the time"
Roy

[Jimmy Newman]

I shot a deer with a .222 Rem on the 31st... purely because it was my dad's first rifle. The only reason I was comfortable using that little a gun is that I was perfectly confident that I could put the little 55gr bullet right in the deer's spine (which I did, he dropped like a rock). Also, it's legal in TX.

If you can hit 'em right, you can use pretty much anything.

[plumberroy]

If you can hit 'em right, you can use pretty much anything.
Amen
Sammoh I did do some "deer hunting" early this fall. I have a woods that belongs to a friend that is my "get away" place this early this fall I noticed that a couple of young bucks were way to comfortable around people both are 1.5 year old deer one a decent 6 point all ready So I decided to "educate" these little bucks with out hurting them so I got out my slingshot and some paintballs used hickory nuts too ! I have seen the 6 point since gun season so it must of worked
Roy

[sammoh]

lol. You paintballed a 6 point? Nice. Hey, if it were deer season at that time for me, I'd have gone for my bow. Good to see yo educated them though, if you're a trophy hunter, you'll get your chance in the future. Me, I'm a food hunter. 1.5 yr old isn't too tough yet.

I'm glad that your father took turkey with a .410. I haven't tried and doubt I could.

So you hunt trad then? Good to hear it. Nothing against anyone who hunts with modern compounds but I and my other half think its just plain cheating. You want to take game with a bow, do it the way our forefathers did it. Use a long bow and wooden arrows. Besides, I spend enough time tinkering with my guns and cleaning them. The last thing I need to do is worry about the cams, pulleys etc of a compound and stuff.

Sam

[ZeroJunk]

I'm curious why any of you think it is your business how another hunter chooses to hunt as long as he is within the laws of his state.

[plumberroy]

If I'm in the mood for meat I'll harvest a small doe about that age I know a couple of woods that would not be hard maybe next bow season I'll take a small doe my better half mentioned some venison would be good I won an old ben peason 2 peice long bow on ebay a while back maybe I'll kill a groundhog or 2 with it . by the way a deer goes from munchin' acorns to warp drive when a paintball is applied to his rear with a wrist rocket the farmer that owned the property did ask why he saw a deer with an orange spot on his @#$ :D

[Ranger J]

When repeating firearms came along.:)

RJ

[ZeroJunk]

a turkey killed with a 410 with Winchester AA's tell me you are a HUNTER

Tells me you don't care whether the animal suffers or not.

If our ancestors had access to a good compound they would have thrown their spears and 30 pound draw away. Just because you can kill a deer with a 22 rimfire doesn't mean it is even close to the most humane way to do it. If you don't care about a humane kill, don't be talking about being a hunter.

Most, if not all long time hunters have been within a few feet of many deer. Doesn't make you Geronimo.And it doesn't take away the responsibility to kill the animal as cleanly and painlessly as possible.

[BP44]

Good thread

[plumberroy]

I'm curious why any of you think it is your business how another hunter chooses to hunt as long as he is within the laws of his state
My point is not how some one hunts as long as it legal It is that a lot of young and or inexperianced hunters look to the internet forums for advice. and there are a lot of people that make it sound like if you don't have a eargazasplittenloudboomer magnum rifle that shoots a mile and kicks like a mule and cost $$$$$ they are seriously handicapped when we should be telling them to get outside study deer habbits shoot what ever legal gun you have till you know it and don't shoot any farther than you can keep all your shots on a paper plate Our sports are under attack all ready we need new hunters discoraging them by telling they need big$$$ gear or talking them into a rifle that kick so hard it causes the to flinch just looking at the gun doesn't help our sport. my state just inacted a new law last year for Apprentice License where you can hunt for one season with out all the hunter safty stuff as long as you are with in voice range of a 21 or older hunter so if it is nov and someone wants to learn to small game hunt They don't have to wait to the next hunter safty class. it get newbies in the woods. it is one of the only smart things I've seen law maker do in years We [experianced hunter] need to helping the inexperianced people learn to use what they have or can afford instead of discoraging them. Maybe people like Sammoh and I are a dying breed that the hunt is more important than the kill[Sammoh don't give me that I'm only a meat hunter stuff ..you wouldn't be using a long bow and wood arrows if all you cared about was meat]
Roy

[plumberroy]

zerojunk
the winchester AA part was being sarcastic but a#6 shot pellet basicly has the same energy weather it is out of a 410 or 10 gauge the 10 just throws more shot. Some one who will take the time to pattern a 410 and determine the range he can put enough pellets in the target to make a clean kill and not take a shot one inch farther than that can ethicly use a 410 on turkey. actually some of the heavy for gauge shot loads combined with the popular short barreled turkey guns are 100-150 fps slower than a standard length barreled 410 so the 410 6's may have a little more energy per pellet. when a ammo company chart tells you a load is xxxx fps you btter read the fine print most company's use test barrels that are 4-6" longer than most hunting guns and there bore have been lapped ultra smooth. there was an article in a hunting mag a year or two ago where they used a 410 bps to harvest a turkey just for the record I don't make a habit out of hunting turkey with a 410 but I did get my Dad who was in very bad health his only turkey and all though he didn't need it I was backing him up with a 12 gauge
Roy

[schnarrgj]

I've enjoyed reading everyones comments. One of the reasons I stopped getting all the gun mags is that they touted the newest and biggest rifle round combination. As mentioned above, it is important for those of us who are a bit more experienced to try and help the new hunter.

I go to a local public range regularly. A number of times each year, I will be shooting one of my old military rifles and one of the new shooters of the .750 firebreathing earth shaker will show some interest after being beat up by his new rifle. Its always fun to talk to them and let them try a rifle that is old but doesn't smack them. Often they ask where they can get one. Also, I try to let them know that it is not the arrow that kills the deer but the Indian.

[.38 Special]

IMO, there is a trend torwards longe range "hunting", and that trend includes the latest high velocity rounds. Some of those folks seem to believe that anyone who blanches at the thought of "Hail Mary" shots at 600, 700, ??? yards must be some kind of sissy and probably just can't handle a "real" gun. A .338 Lapua, for instance.

If it makes the OP feel any better, he should know that here are still men who believe that "hunting" includes getting as close as possible, both for the sake of the animal and the sake of "sport". Those men, oddly enough, seem to be the same people who find that the '06 is more than enough and the .25 Bob, 6.5 Swede, and 7 Mauser all work perfectly.

[Bearhands]

#'s 17, 18 and 19 are three of the most poignant responses to the "gotta-hava-magnum" idea I've seen in a long time and many thanks from this "hunter"! The media blitz that's been going on since the word "magnum" was first used has sold guns, ammo and the idea that a man would be under-gunned or less of a man if he didnt own one. Young hunters/shooters beware...... that is a buncha bull...... re-read the previous three responses and learn.

[Art Eatman]

Basically, two thing led to "magnum-itis". The first was the number of city folks who started booking western hunts and weren't very good at estimating range. That led to a perceived need for "flat-shooting" cartridges such as the 7mm Rem Mag. Roy Weatherby hadn't helped with his ideas about the shock power of very high velocities.

The other factor, for some years, was a certain amount of depletion of the numbers of animals, and/or an increase in the wariness of animals, which led to more need to take longer shots. This also ties in with the city folks' lack of stalking skills or understanding of how to work in closer to an already-seen animal.

For the gunzine writers, it's a numbers game. There are a lot more city folks in their audience than there are a bunch of brush-bunnies who grew up messin' with Bambi and his friends...

[frogomatic]

when brute force overtook precision in many hunters minds. Many hunters only shoot about 5 rounds a year. They haven't developed their marksmanship, can't judge distance, and can't figure arc trajectories. Technology has developed to help the once-a-year shooter be able to bring down game as reliably as possible. Massive terminal ballistics help make up for modest accuracy. Rangefinders eliminate the need to judge distance. Ultra high velocity rounds minimize or eliminate the need to figure trajectory. It's as simple as technology making up for a lack of old fashioned skill. I don't mean what I say to berate hunters that choose to take advantage of all the tech. If you are more successful using the tech, by all means use it! I'm just saying don't forget the skills that make the tech uneeded, you may not always have that tech.

[ZeroJunk]

I think the 7 MM Rem mag is an excellent cartridge and the 300 Win mag is an excellent Elk cartridge.The 300 Ultra, 30-378, 8MM mag etc. are a little over the top for me. Any of the family of 308 or 30/06 based cartridges are great for deer. I don't even have a problem with a .22 centerfire in the hand of a marksman with enough sense to use the proper bullets.

I'm happy your father got his turkey. But, for advice in general, a 22 magnum chest shot for deer and a .410 for turkeys? I hear you clucking, but I can't find your nest.

BTW, I killed the first Elk I ever shot at with a pre 64 model 70 30/06 at about 250 yards leaning against a pine tree. Cut his spine in two as my tendency is to over estimate yardage. That was 22 years ago.I will take the same rifle this year, but it is a 280 AI now.

[redneck2]

I hunted turkeys with a 3" 12 gauge for several years. Public land 2 hours from my house. Turkeys were WAY skittish. We walked miles and miles and miles each season for 3 years. Had one real nice bird at about 45 yards once. I didn't take the shot and never got a bird there.

Now I use a 10 gauge Hevi-Shot. No, the birds aren't armor plated, but I have a limited amount of time to hunt. There are a limited number of birds. I use every thing I can to put the odds in my favor. If I can effectively stretch the range 10 yards with a different gun, I'm gonna do it if it's legal.

To follow your train of thought, I see guys that use a .410 slug for deer (which is now legal in Indiana). Somehow, they get the idea that it's equivalent to a .30-06. It's actually a little less powerful than a .38 Special. Since the deer here run 150-200# on the hoof, there's no way a 88 grain slug at 1,200 fps is big enough.

If you've actually hunted turkeys and deer, you should know that they can be very hard to put down. I've seen a 12 gauge slug blow the heart/lungs out and the deer still go over 100 yards.

Use enough gun. No, you don't need a .338 Win Mag for deer, but use something adequate.

[plumberroy]

Redneck 2
I know what you mean about some people thinking a 410 slug is a rifle I;ve heard people say it is the same as a 44 mag even the 1/4 oz slug are just 109 grains and not a good bullet to retain energy then they give,em to a kid to boot. we have had decent success on a turkey hung up like that.by having one guy slip back about 20-25 yards away from the turkey lighty call for a couple minutes them go back about the same distance and call again don't over do it calling My ex brother-in-law harvested A couple nice birds like that
zerojunk
I'm not saying that I think those small guns are Idea I'm saying a disiplined "hunter" can ethically harvest game with them I have harvested several deer with a 7mm rem mag I went though the got to have a magnum phase I killed a buck at 430 yards measured not "guesstamated" I routinely kill half grown groundhogs at 300-350 yards [removing problem groundhogs in the summer get me permission to hunt other game in the fall] I can hold my own with most rifleman Yes you may kill more game with a mag rifle or a 10 ga shotgun,But hunting as a sport is more than killing It is about watching the sun come up in the morning and listening to the woods wake up.It is about the smell of a fall woods when then leaves start to decay. it is about spending morning with your Dad or walking a ridge with your son after thanksgiving dinner It could be you last quality time with them Take it from some one that knows Most of my most successful hunts I never fired a shot
Most of us do not have to hunt ot eat most of us have friends and or family that we hunt with ,If you are called on to carry this friend to his grave what are you going to be thinking about? that steak you shot 500 yards or that llong walk back a logging road to the truck being hassled about sliding down the hill on you butt
Roy

[oldhammy1]

I find it quite telling about someone, when they feel all knowing enough to start threads making general statements and stereotypes about things they CLEARLY are not qualified to make. Those of you that have read my recent long range shooting hunting thread will find numerous examples of individuals quick to judge, but ignorant of the facts they are speaking to. I think if you wanted to start a thread to do nothing more than stir the pot, you accomplished your goal. IMHO if you want to be an honest contributor, do it in a productive way with real life examples, data, and experiences, and leave the discussion open to both sides of the debate before you make weak generalizations.

[plumberroy]

make weak generalizations.
What is weak generalizations about telling a new hunter he can use a 30/30 or an old military rifle with hunting bullet to get started that he does not need to spend a thousand dollars to get started . or that you can get within 100 yards of a deer. here in the midwest we cant use center fire rifles and manage to take thousands of deer each year I have no problem with some one who knows his rifle and practises with it taking any shot he is sure of and is with in the limits of his weapon ammo combination I have taken several deer at 400 yards I took a feral dog [was assisting dog warden] 732 paces. I have rifles capable and I have the abilty to shoot long range I do not encorage new hunter to shoot long range I encorage them to get close.
A lot of young people do not have the money to shoot a rifle enough to have any busness taking a long range shot at todays ammo prices if you only shoot the week before gun season you have no busness shooting past point blank rifle of you rifle my point is that a lot of people on the web and the gun magazines lead you to beleive that if you can't shoot 500 yards and don't kill something every time you step out the door you might as well stay on the couch And that that discorages new hunters and we need all the news hunters we can get
Roy

[oldhammy1]

Go back and re-read your original post. You claim to be the self proclaimed authority on the definition of a "Hunter". According to your definition, I am not. So be it.

[Art Eatman]

From Post #1: "A Trophy buck killed at 600 yards or a gobler at 50+ yards shows me you have good equipment a 5 year old doe kill at 10 yards or a turkey killed with a 410 with Winchester AA's tell me you are a HUNTER."

Which as most folks know who have any significant number of years around a campfire know isn't the definition of much of anything.

Killing a buck at 600 yards says you're a highly competent shooter--and doesn't at all mean you are unable to stalk and get up close if you want to.

Killing a gobbler with a shotgun at 50 yards just says you're using a very tight choke on whatever shotgun is used.

Killing a doe at ten yards just means you can sit still in ambush.

Using a .410 with AAs on a turkey just means you are patient, are a good caller--most likely--and are patient. But that doesn't keep you from also being good at 600 yards with a rifle.

My point is that none of this stuff is mutually exclusive. I've killed deer in Ma Bell style and I've killed deer up close and personal. To me, it's a bunch of, "So what?" I've hipshot quail. So what? I've gotten triples on doves with an extra-full pattern from an old Model 12. So what?

IMO, the only thing that counts is a clean kill. Period. Everybody has his own style and "druthers". Leave it at that.

Art

[spencerhut]

. . . there are still men who believe that "hunting" includes getting as close as possible, both for the sake of the animal and the sake of "sport". Those men, oddly enough, seem to be the same people who find that the '06 is more than enough and the .25 Bob, 6.5 Swede, and 7 Mauser all work perfectly.

A 6.5x55 properly applied at a reasonable distance will humanly and quickly drop an elk. That your buddy has a 300 Ultra Mag and gives you some BS about being under gunned for elk, well opinions and all that. It's funny when the same buddy gets the snot pounded out of him so bad he flinches and misses his elk. Not to mention the wife and I can shoot 50+ practice rounds with our 6.5x55's with no sore shoulder and our friend . . . well he's done after one box of twenty usually. The cost of the ammo, and though he'll rarely admit it, sore shoulder is what ends his practice sessions. My practice ends when my eyes get tired or I run out of ammo, usually the eyes.

[ZeroJunk]

if you only shoot the week before gun season you have no busness shooting past point blank

your buddy has a 300 Ultra Mag and gives you some BS about being under gunned for elk

These seem to be a couple of recurring themes that I find questionable.
Shooting a rifle is a little like riding a bicycle. It doesn't take a lot of practice to shoot good groups off of some type of rest. I never could shoot worth a crap without a rest whether I practiced or not.

I have hunted all over the US and Canada and I can't remember the last time anybody even asked me what I was using. Much less make some know it all comment over too big or too small.

[.38 Special]

Killing a buck at 600 yards says you're a highly competent shooter...
Or just an idiot who got lucky.

And that's why I get all fired up on this issue: I've seen those idiots in action and I've seen the results, both lucky and not. I know, on one level, that there are people who can make that shot with the same chance of success that I have at half that distance or less, and my rational side says "More power to them".

But my gut finds it more convenient to lump all the long-rangers into one category, the label for which does not include the word "competent". That's unfair, so I apologize to any talented long-range hunters who take offense at what I write.

But I can't resist noting that, without exception, the idiots whanging away (universally armed with the latest-greatest magnum) at game far beyond their ability fully believe themselves to be marksmen in every sense of the word. So again, by way of explanation and with all due respect to the truly competent out there, I figure the odds are that any single person tapping away at the internet about his long-range expertise is, well, deceiving himself, at best. And while we all engage in self-deception at one time or another, it's a shame when our great game animals suffer because of it.

[ZeroJunk]

.38 Special. That's one way to look at it.

On the other hand, I play golf, but I would be presumptuous to tell Tiger Woods what he can or cannot do.

[.38 Special]

I'm not telling anyone what they can or cannot do. I'm just saying that when some stranger on the internet is boasting that he hits just as well as Tiger Woods, smart money is against it.

[eliphalet]

if you only shoot the week before gun season you have no busness shooting past point blank Well I don't think I agree with that statement.

Dad was 84 last fall when he shot his deer and about the only time his deer rifle is shot is to check the scope just before hunting season. But then he has told me of the rabbit hunting he and his buddy's did in the 30's when they would pool their money to buy one box of 22's.

When you learn how to hunt/shoot and make shots count you don't forget.
As a kid I would sometimes leave the house with 3 bullets when I had lots more, and try my best to come home with 3 rabbits. I shoot thousands of rounds every year but I betcha lessons learned as a kid are still with me.

I am not special anyone can shoot just a few times a year and do fine once you learn to make em count. Better if you shoot more? Yes, but not a requirement.

Hunting and knowing when to shoot and when not to, then hitting your intended target can be a whole lot different that sitting at a bench and punching holes in paper. Shooting at the range or off a bench is a good thing but entirely different than killing critters under not always so perfect conditions..

[30-06 lover]

The biggest rifle I have is a 30-06 and I have never been undergunned. I got caught up in the "got to have a mag" craze when I was a teen, and bought a 300 Win Mag. I still have recoil issues that come up every now and again because of that damn gun. Only gun purchase I regret. I traded for a 6mm and am very happy I did. I say shoot the most you can handle, but be realistic, most can't shoot more than a 30-06.

[DWARREN123]

It is not the firearm and caliber it's the shooters. If the shot is bad then more power does help. If some folks would just learn proper shot placement and correct range estimation then lesser sized calibers would be more effective.

[Art Eatman]

.38special, I've been mderating the rifle forums at TFL and at THR since I first began at TFL in 1999. I've read a lot of posts in a lot of threads.

By and large, we've had very few folks come through who are just blowing smoke about their shots.

And, by and large, I sorta doubt that we have many folks post here who just shoot some sight-in and then one or two Bambi shots a year. THR isn't what they're interested in.

For myself, I've never practiced beyond 500 yards. I haven't bothered to learn the bullet drop beyond 500. Generally, my personal comfort limit is around 400. But with some practice and knowledge of the drop, a laser rangefinder and a good rest during a dead-calm time of day? Sure, I'd take that long shot and expect to hit where I intended.

[K3]

I'm like Art. I print off ballistics tables up to 500 and no more. Longest shot I've taken to date was a little over 330 yards. I'm comfortable out to 400 as most cartridges drop under 2 feet at that range. Most shots I've taken on deer are 100 to 200 yards. For nighttime predator hunting with the red spotlight, shots average 50 yards. Sometimes I can get pretty close to deer, other times the long shot is the only option. A few weeks ago, I had a herd of mule deer feeding all around me. I was standing on a rim up near some cedars. The herd just worked their way up the hill, and next thing I know, I'm surrounded. I've never stood frozen for so long in my life. Seemed like hours. Other times, I have spooked deer from 300 yards away.

Moral of story?

Each situation, location, etc is unique.

I'm just happy to be in the field. I'm not a big blind hunter, but I'll never pass up an opportunity to do that. In fact, I'm heading to SE Mississippi on Saturday for a deer hunting trip. It's much different than the West Texas cedar canyon hunting I am used to. I'm thinking about using a .45-70 Trapdoor. I think 405gr leaving the muzzle at 1400fps should handle whitetail, doncha think?