[10-Ring]

For a new shooter, what handgun available today is the easiest to just pick up & start shooting? Topic came up while shooting tonight. A buddy was thinking his S&W 686 was ideal, but I mentioned the frame might be a tad big for some shooters. Another was thinking his Baby Eagle, but I mentioned the safety might be a problem. I was thinking a medium framed DA revolver or a medium frame semi auto...prolly something in a Glock or a SIG since there are no manual safeties to disengage.

[Mike Irwin]

In experience teaching people, a K-frame in .22, .38, or .357.

I taught a friend the basics of shooting some years ago. He was a newbie, but ADAMANT that he wanted to start out on a semi-auto. I guess all the time he logged with a TV made him the expert.

Like a fool, however, I acquiesced and started him out on a semi-auto.

He put one into the divider between lanes, about a foot in front of my stomach, and then started turning around TOWARD me with a live semi-auto. :eek:

I moved in directly behind him, and as I started to turn his body back square with the firing line, he put ANOTHER round into the divider. :fire:

At that point I was adamant.

The lesson ended there, we went back to the drawing board, spent more time on safe handling, and started over again, but this time with a revolver.

He balked, but I made it very clear. It was either start with the revolver, or go straight to hell.

He's now a pretty good shooter.

[sm]

I concur with Mike.
K frames, start with .22 then progress to .38.

[Drifting Fate]

In my experience, a true novice doesn't really have a hard time between auto or revolver.

So, most intuitive design (with the basic amount of training any firearm needs, in order, IMHO): P7M8, 1911, P35, Glock, & K-Frame.

[Ala Dan]

I also agree with Mike!:D It's hard to beat S&W's
K-frame for learning the basics of handguning.:rolleyes: :)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Sean Smith]

Revolvers are probably the most intuitive in principle. Pull the trigger, it shoots. You can see the bullets in the cylinder. However, DA revolvers with off-the-shelf trigger pulls are not easy to learn how to shoot well for new shooters... the long, heavy trigger pull tends to give them fits. And practicing in SA so you can hit the target is just setting yourself up for wearing your heinie as a hat if you ever need it "for real."

I've always found it deeply stupid how people will declaim with the certitude of internet expertitude that semi-autos are just too fiendishly complicated for new shooters. I've even heard it said that women flat out are too mechanically disinclined to use something as complicated as a semi-auto. This is especially said of the 1911, which is of course too powerful for women and smaller men (apparenty meaning "without a beer gut"), and yet so fiendishly complex and sensitive that only men and lesbians find them attractive anyway.

:neener:

[Majic]

I say the revolver also. Nothings wrong with learning to shoot single action then progressing to double action after you have learned the basics. DA/SA semi-autos should cause the most problems for novices with the 2 different trigger pulls. Single and safe action trigger designed semi-autos do provide a better learning platform as the trigger is consistant, but all semi-autos share one point that would require extra learning for a novice. That's the ability to reconize and handle a FTF/FTE event. If the novice limp wrists and have one of the events they have to learn what they did wrong and how to recify the problem at the same time. To me that's added stress that should be dealt with much further along the learning curve.

[rugerfreak]

Ruger Single-Six for a newbie

Have to cock the hammer for each shot.

No recoil .22---so as not to develope a flinch.

Adj sights to compensate for levels of newbie-ness and ammo variances.

[444]

I think this is pretty clearly a revolver. As was mentioned, you open the cylinder and see if it is loaded. You actually place the loaded cartridges in the cylinger. Once loaded, you pull the tirgger and it fires. That is intuitive.

As far as teaching a beginner or learning to shoot by yourself, I think a .22 revolver is the way to go. And, a K-Framed S&W very well might be the best tool for the job.
I am a big believer in doing things right; not just doing something that works. As I get older, I also appreciate the fact that you need to learn to walk before you can run.
You need to start off by learning the correct stance from day one. I personally think the Weaver is the best. Then we get into sight picture and sight alignment. We are not firing the gun for a thrill or to make a loud noise. Hitting the target is the entire purpose for what we are doing. Then of course comes correct surprise break of the trigger.
I think we need to start out at very short range, but make sure we are striving for accuracy and smoothness. Being fast doesn't mean a thing unless we hit where we need to hit. Being fast comes with being smooth not trying to be fast.
The less we have to worry about, the more we can concentrate on correct technique. Muzzle blast, and recoil are counterproductive to shooting. Once we learn the basics, we can then worry about trying to overcome these obstacles.

[Keith]

How many times have we read about the guy who pulls the magazine out his semi, and then N/D's his floor, wall, dog, neighbor or child with the round left in the chamber? "I thought it was empty...."

It's not always the complete newby who does this. People who should know better often are known to get distracted and rack the slide prior to removing the magazine... BANG!

Semi's are not intuitive. They require thought and long familiarity before they can be handled safely.

So yeah, a .22 revolver is hands down the best choice.

Keith

[Zundfolge]

Semi's are not intuitive. They require thought and long familiarity before they can be handled safely.

The 4 rules are the 4 rules, whether its a revolver, semi, rifle or anti-aircraft gun :rolleyes:

In addition, revolvers tend to have zero safety features whereas autos have safeties, decockers and other safety stuff.


Handguns are extremely simple to operate machines, if you find a newbie who can't safely operate any handgun after a 4 rules lecture then please take the gun away from them, take their car keys, take their credit cards, remind them to breathe, put them in a helmet and send them on their way (consider sterilization too because such a person is too stupid to breed).

[Keith]

Zund,

Ask any armorer why they have that bucket of sand near the door for people to "clear" their semi-automatic weapons. People get distracted and make stupid mistakes. Commonly, they rack the slide THEN pull the mag free (instead of t'other way around) and then fire a live round into (hopefully) that bucket of sand. It happens all the time with semi's, but rarely with revolvers. That's just one example of a N/D that happens with semi's, but not revolvers - there are others. And we are talking about "experienced" shooters, not newbies!

You have to be just a bit more focused with a semi, than a revolver.

Keith

[Croyance]

It seems to me that what happened in Mike Irwin's story could have happened with a revolver also. Perhaps the heavier trigger pull of the revolver would have given the guy time to think. Maybe.
I am thinking now that regardless of a gun, the Barney Fife method is the way to go. Only one bullet loaded at a time. It won't prevent that first shot, but there is no other round to go boom at inopportune moments.

[Sean Smith]

I don't believe in using hardware to cure a software problem. Then again, I don't try to teach unresponsive idiots how to shoot, either. So avoiding morons may have skewed my persepctive. But that's my "alternate lifestyle choice" and I'm sticking to it! :D

I even had a non-imbecille do just fine starting with a 1911 in .45 ACP. I wouldn't recommend that as a matter of course, but it is amazing what you can do when the student isn't an a-hole.

[firestar]

In revolvers, S&W K-frames and Ruger Speed Six, Security Six, Service Six.

In autos, probably Glock and Kahr because they don't have any levers, safeties or hammers. Just load and pull the trigger.

[sm]

NRA Safety courses.
New shooters, young/old/male/female, interested in learning how to protect themselves. Many of these wanting to learn for and prep for CCW.

4 rules always, reagrdless of platform, if it sits in sock drawer or you burn 20k rds a year.

Now -when a single mom comes in because her husband died in Desert Storm, she wants to learn and seeks instruction I DO NOT consider her second rate in any way. I started with a model 18. And hell yes she progressed quickly and carries a Pro Carry as CCW now.

When that Vetern came in after his wife was buried, she was mugged and broke a hip, he asked to be re-familaized. HE wanted to start out simple. Model 10. He did well with the 1911 and BHP. He has an old 1911 we checked out did a little tuning for him. He bought a used model 10 to have as a backup. HE bought himself a used model 18 to practice his revo skills and his grandson. He also bought a 22/45.

I don't consider anyone starting with the simple-regarding 4 Rules, and using a Revolver as inferior or second rate. I do take apart a semi (1911) and let them get familar with controls and the like.

NO some people are not stupid, unresponsive,or inferior--they flat don't know. I choose to be one to set an example and not be critical.

Yes I have dismissed a student, refused a CCW and had one dad remove all guns from a son's dwelling. It was my --Is my responsibility to be observant and use good judgement about students. This kid was later DX c schizophrenia.

Even the most experienced of us had caught ourself, or friends and reminded each other. I'm not unresponsive-but I do not have a problem if someone reminds me of 4 rules, range rules or etiquette.

I'm not unique or a big deal either.

At 6 I fired my firt 1911, Singer GM, at a NG range with a Gunny. I had fired a 22lr revo since I was able to helped to hold it. MY first centerfire was 1911. Gunny took his time, so yes it can be done. But Jiminey he cussed them guys and push-ups when they screwed up...and they had training.

[444]

That goodness we have so many perfect people on this board to keep the rest of us straight. I find that a lot of people arn't perfect. You can tell them the four rules, you can pound it into their head. You can repeat it over and over, but they sometimes forget. One of the main reasons they forget is because this is new to them. They are trying to remember a lot of new stuff. I think the best thing to do is to make the gun as safe as possible expecting mistakes to be made.
I don't have kids, but if I was teaching a six year old kid to shoot, I wouldn't tell him the four rules and then just assume that was the end of that and proceed to turn him loose. I would expect him to forget, expect to have to remind him, expect a learning curve to take place; and I would be there to ensure that no one got hurt when these mistakes were made. And when he made a mistake I wouldn't assume the the kid was an unresponsive idiot, a moron, or an a-hole. I also wouldn't expect any more from a adult who had never handled a gun before.
Now if I corrected an adult and they told me to go pound sand then that is another story.

I have been to a couple professionally instructed firearms courses at internationally known shooting schools. I bet there wasn't a half hour that passed without someone being reminded of the four rules. But, these courses are taught by professionals that expect this and are always on the lookout for mistakes; that is their job. Just like it is your job when you are playing instructor.

[Mike Irwin]

"It seems to me that what happened in Mike Irwin's story could have happened with a revolver also."

Of course it could have.

But the heavier, longer trigger pull of a revolver is, I feel, more of a "safety stop" to an accidental discharge for someone either unfamiliar or only moderately familiar with handguns.

[Mike Irwin]

"You can see the bullets in the cylinder."

If you can see the bullets in the cylinder, that's not exactly good muzzle control... :)

[Mike Irwin]

"In addition, revolvers tend to have zero safety features whereas autos have safeties, decockers and other safety stuff."

That's why they're generally more intuitive.

One action to ensure that the gun is unloaded, as opposed to two, no necessity for a decocker, no real necessity for a safety device given the double action trigger pull.

Sometimes too many controls are worse than fewer controls.

[Mike Irwin]

"Single and safe action trigger designed semi-autos do provide a better learning platform as the trigger is consistant."

And that's different from the same, consistent trigger pull of a double action revolver, how?

A tuned revolver need not have a double action trigger pull that a new shooter can't handle.

[Sean Smith]

So much for the flood control features on the forum... :p

[SnWnMe]

"For a new shooter, what handgun available today is the easiest to just pick up & start shooting?"

A medium frame revolver:

1. "Here Joe Newbie, is how you open the cylinder, you can clearly see if the gun is loaded or not by opening the cylinder"
2 ."These are the holes that the ammo goes into. Load and close her up"
3. "Here is the trigger, pull it if you want to fire. Don't pull it if you don't want to fire"
4 .Optional"Cock the hammer before you pull the trigger for better control Refer to # 3 for the rest"
5. "Open the cylinder to render weapon safe after string of fire."

A conventional DA/SA semi auto:
1. "Here Joe, is the safety lever, make sure that it is in the safe position (red you're dead).
2. "Here Joe, is the magazine release. Press this button to drop the clip."
3. "This is the slide stop. Pull the slide all the way back and push the stop up to lock the slide open. Now you can check if the gun is clear."
4. "Set down your gun and fill your magazine with ammo."
5. "Insert your magazine firmly into the butt."
6. "Push the slide stop down to send the slide forward and chamber the first round"
7. "Disengage your safety"
8. "Pull trigger to fire. Your first shot .... Well, is this really intuitive?"
9 "Let's get my revolver Joe"

The manual of arms for a 1911 is not that much better.

A Glock would simplify things a tad and make the case better for an auto.

[Mike Irwin]

"So much for the flood control features on the forum... "

Yeah, I should probably have done that all as one message.

Just saw something to comment on, commented and posted, and then was too lazy to go back and edit in the reply.

[4v50 Gary]

When it comes down to "feel" of the gun, the German P-08 with a 4" bbl of course. Now, I don't expect a novice to figure out about pulling that toggle back. The safety may be tough too if they dunno the tongue of the Teutons.

OK, let's stick with the DA revolver. Point and chute.

[Berg01]

Your Buddy is dead-nuts on about the S&W 686, 4-6" bbl.

[Alvin Hammer]

Back in '89 I watched a lady in her mid-50's learn to shoot. She had never handled a gun of any kind. She was loaned a 1911 chambered in 45 ACP by Jeff Cooper on the first morning of the class. By the end of the week Dennis Tueller had her outshooting half the class. I asked the instructors how come she learned so fast. They said it is easier to teach a woman with no experience because she has no bad habits to unlearn.

Before the week was half over she asked to buy the pistol. The Gunsmithy built her one similar to it and shipped it to a FFL holder near where she lived. I heard it was waiting for her when she got home.

With the right instructors and a willingness to learn it is amazing what can be done. The lady never commented on the recoil until asked about it toward the end of the week. The term had to be explained to her. She said it was of no concern one way or the other. Didn't see why anyone would complain about recoil. She was maybe 5'2 or 3" tall. Maybe 120 pounds.

[Detachment Charlie]

I had shot all types of revolvers and semis and would have sworn my old S&W Mod. 10 was the most intuitive, UNTIL one day in a North Carolina gun shop, the owner said, "Here, try this." It was a genuine Colt SSA. Only my own finger points more easily.

[Berg01]

N-Frame Smith & Wesson, i.e., my 1978-vintage #27-2 6" bbl, just point it where you want your projectile to hit, and that's where it goes!