My Brand new Glock 19 jammed 3 times in 150 rounds.


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High Planes Drifter
January 6, 2008, 09:45 PM
Ammunition was Monarch. Im sure its not the greatest ammo in the world, but it was brass case fmj, new manufacture. The first jam was a stovepipe while feeding. It was on the second round of a full mag. Where I messed up was not making a mental note of what mag it was. The second jam, the fired/empty case got caught in the ejection port. The magazine had maybe two or three rounds left in it. I made a note of which mag was in the gun this time. The third jam was the same as the second, and using the same mag. There were three rounds left in the mag.


Does this sound like a mag issue? Should I send the gun back to Glock, or go to the range once more without that imparticular mag and see if the gun works fine? This is the first time I've fired the gun, I was planing on making it my carry gun. Im pretty darned dissapointed.

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possum
January 6, 2008, 10:16 PM
don't worry i have had hadguns that have performed much much worse. i would say try different ammo first, then different mags, and if thr problrem stayes then send it back but i bet it is an ammo issue. maybe a mag issue but highly doubtful it is the gun.

conan
January 6, 2008, 10:18 PM
A 10 rounder used to cause jams in my 19, but when I went to a 15 rounder it became uterly reliable. Try a different magazine for sure.

ewayte
January 6, 2008, 10:20 PM
Try ammunition made in the U.S.A. before blaming the gun or the magazines.

herohog
January 6, 2008, 10:22 PM
Any chance you were "limp-wristing" it? Some guns are more prone to this than others and require a firm grip to function properly. Even if a firmer grip does make a difference, I am not sure how much I would trust it in a selfe-defence situation untill I have it operating %100. Borrow another magazine, try different ammo and firm up your grip and see if any of that improver the performance. If not, It's time to contact the Dealer/Manufacturer.

Jason_G
January 6, 2008, 10:24 PM
I have seen some extremely nasty Monarch (.45 ACP though) before. Stuff was gritty and greasy for some reason. It jammed my friend's 1911 about every 5 or 6 rounds. I would recommend trying a different brand of ammo, and then if the problem continues contact Glock. New mags might fix it, but the gun ought to be 100% out of the box IMO.

Jason

possum
January 6, 2008, 10:26 PM
limp wristing is another possible cause that i left out of my post as i figured that the op was experienced enough to not do, but with that said that is a good point and could be the cause, so check form, change ammo, then mags, then worry about returning the weapon.

though i think the ammo is the cause i have never had any issues with any glock firing any factory ammo. foreign made or not.

FIREARMZ
January 6, 2008, 10:37 PM
Limp wristing a polymer framed gun especially in 9MM is very common. You have to support the frame of the gun very well in order for the slide to reciprocate fully to the rear, the polymer framed gun flexes under recoil. Limp wristing can cause:
Failure to feed (not enough energy from the slide to strip the round from a loaded magazine, especially in some of the really high tension double stack magazines, ie.. Glocks).
Failure to eject (stove pipe) because the gun is not supported well enough for th slide to move far enough or fast enough to eject the empty cartridge.

Weak ammo can contribute to this also, combined with weak wrist equals bad results.

asknight
January 6, 2008, 10:56 PM
The green-box Monarch 9mm is brass/boxer Prvi Partizan which is loaded a bit hotter than run of the mill Winchester White Box. It runs clean and warm... so I'm not sure I'd blame the ammo in a NIB weapon.

Maybe Glock has realized that the high-end 1911 manufacturers can get by with saving money on final fitting and finishing by requiring a 500 round break-in and began doing the same thing?

Beowolf1911
January 6, 2008, 11:03 PM
As much as I would like to say it is because you got a Glock, fact is most pistols need a 300-500 round break in period before they work as good as they should. I would take it out a few more times try the different mags and see if it was a mag issue and strip it and clean it thoroughly before I would go to the manufacturer. You might want to try a heavier load, since the recoil spring might still be a bit tight.

strat81
January 6, 2008, 11:36 PM
First, try a tighter grip. Then try better ammo.

My father-in-law gets my G26 to jam constantly because of his grip.

weisse52
January 6, 2008, 11:43 PM
It seems you may have noticed it more with one magazine. This could very well be a mag problem. I agree with your thought to leave it out of the mix next time you shoot. I number my mags to keep track on number of rounds and performance. While I have had excellent results with my G19 it is something that can happen.
Give it a chance with some different ammo next time as well.

DENALI
January 7, 2008, 12:22 AM
Your Glock you said is NIB and assuming this is correct check your mag followers, are they rounded or pointed? Glock has been messing with there mags and the point'y ones I've found to almost always require some breaking in. I noticed this the past two years or so and am almost positive it's not the pistol itself. I had the same problem with a 22 and took the mags apart put em back together and never had the problem again. It's very rare to encounter this type of thing and have it end up something other than the shooter or the mag, check the mags! Good luck

BullsEye10x
January 7, 2008, 01:03 AM
Give it at least 400-500 rounds of break-in time before you chalk it up as a lemon. I just picked up a "LNIB" 19 that had 75 rounds through it, and the action is still extremely tight (not rough, but very stiff). Dangfangled Glocks last so long, it takes near half a case of ammo just to get 'em running :D

10-Ring
January 7, 2008, 02:01 AM
I woul give the gun a good clean & lube, make sure to take a more secure grip and maybe try a different mag or two...
good luck! You rarely hear of reliability issues w/ 19's, hope this is just a fluke! ;)

High Planes Drifter
January 7, 2008, 11:28 AM
No way was I limp wristing it. I am an experienced shooter. My .45 collection consists of 2 1911's and a Sig 220. I never have jams with them. The Glock doesnt recoil anywhere close to my .45's.



Try ammunition made in the U.S.A. before blaming the gun or the magazines.


Is there a common known problem with Monarch 9mm?

distra
January 7, 2008, 12:15 PM
Glock...jam...impossible! :rolleyes: At least according to the Glock owners I know. :neener: It's always the ammo's fault. :rolleyes: My guess is you need to strip it down, clean it a bit and lightly lube the pistol. Give it a couple hundred rounds and if you think ammo is to blame run some WWB (Winchester White Box) through it. If you still have issues after 500 rds, send it back for repairs.

asknight
January 7, 2008, 12:34 PM
Is there a common known problem with Monarch 9mm?


No

pbearperry
January 7, 2008, 12:40 PM
I would go back to the range with a different mag and ammo and see if the jams occur again.My old Department has had Glocks and never any jam problems.

PoconoEagle
January 7, 2008, 12:43 PM
sorry I cant help much except say my sig's never did that:D

cdcmj
January 7, 2008, 12:51 PM
you should have just gotten an XD 9 :neener:

Mad Magyar
January 7, 2008, 12:52 PM
but i bet it is an ammo issue.

In a FMJ, not hardly in a n.i.b.....How much ammo will you fire/waste to determine the break-in? :rolleyes:
If it was me, I would give it a good cleaning and using the mags provided by Glock: try it again in FMJ..If it fails, ask for a refund; not the repair nonsense and purchase something else....:mad:

sturmgewehr
January 7, 2008, 01:03 PM
No way was I limp wristing it. I am an experienced shooter. My .45 collection consists of 2 1911's and a Sig 220. I never have jams with them. The Glock doesnt recoil anywhere close to my .45's.
Because your 1911's work and your Sig 220 works doesn't mean the Glock will work if your grip is anything less than perfect, especially with the G19/17. You will be hard pressed to limp wrist a 1911 regardless of your grip (same is true of the P220).

First, I would strip the pistol and look at the slide rails and frame rails. Look for plastic cast over the rails (rails should be showing all steel) or look for signs of excess friction (worn finish in the slide rails, metal shavings, etc.). If it looks ok, then it's probably not your gun.

Stove pipes in the G19/17 models typically come from limp wristing, weak ammo or a combination of both. The slide velocity is minimal under such conditions and the gun fails to function as intended.

Does the slide lock back to the rear on the last shot reliably?

Anyway, here's what happens when a Glock isn't properly held.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/th_Glock_17_test.jpg (http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/?action=view&current=Glock_17_test.flv)

Here's a different Glock (17C) doing the same thing.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/th_glock_slow_mo.jpg (http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/?action=view&current=glock_slow_mo.flv)

Here's a test showing that 1911's don't suffer from this problem.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/th_limp_wrist_test_2_0001.jpg (http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/?action=view&current=limp_wrist_test_2_0001.flv)

sturmgewehr
January 7, 2008, 01:08 PM
Give it at least 400-500 rounds of break-in time before you chalk it up as a lemon. I just picked up a "LNIB" 19 that had 75 rounds through it, and the action is still extremely tight (not rough, but very stiff). Dangfangled Glocks last so long, it takes near half a case of ammo just to get 'em running
It's a Glock, not a Kimber. There is absolutely no need to break in a Glock.

weisse52
January 7, 2008, 01:21 PM
I think the best advice given has been clean it, different ammo, different Mags.

If that still fails then give a call to Glock. I agee that I have had four Glocks and never had to break one in, nor have I ever had this problem. NOTHING is 100% foolproof and sometimes a problem can occur with ANYTHING. Glock stands behind the product.

So give it another try and let us know how it went.

wworker
January 7, 2008, 01:22 PM
sturmgewehr, those are great links.


Check the recoil spring and follower to ensure they are installed correctly or not damaged.

CountGlockula
January 7, 2008, 01:24 PM
Try gripping it firmer and try different ammo.

High Planes Drifter
January 7, 2008, 01:39 PM
I should have mentioned, all of my mags are OEM GLOCK mags. Two came with the gun, and I purchased another when I picked the gun up. But like I said, it is an OEM GLOCK mag.

sturmgewehr
January 7, 2008, 01:42 PM
Given the nature of the malfunction, it's likely not the magazine that's at fault.

mpmarty
January 7, 2008, 03:15 PM
Check for extractor function and possible damage. If you drop the slide on a glock with a round in the chamber you can easily damage (chip) the extractor. this is a known weakness in all Glocks but more so in the larger calibers.

romma
January 7, 2008, 05:05 PM
My money is on the ammo!

f4t9r
January 7, 2008, 06:11 PM
This thread makes me so happy ,it brought a tear to my eye.
I have to make sure and save it for the never fails Glock nuts

Big Boomer
January 7, 2008, 06:59 PM
I have nothing to add but sarcasm :neener:

And on that note:

Glock's NEVER jam! Take that back! You might find a posse after you shortly!

This thread has been perpetuated by evil underground Glock haters. It must be those 1911 freaks! Glock's are the GODSEND of all modern evil black pistols! Nothing else compares! NOTHING!!! I say nothing!!! Muhahahahaha

There is nothing wrong with that Glock, it will eat any ammo, so it must be the operator that is not worthy.

And on that note: The Glock hater police WILL be coming after you!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/goodgirl20/smiley-cop.gif

wditto
January 7, 2008, 07:05 PM
Glocks do NOT malfunction.....it was either a fake glock or it wasn't your gun.....

MarshallDodge
January 7, 2008, 07:11 PM
I was going to say something about Glock perfection but I will hold my tongue. :D

I agree with the ones that say try different ammo, magazine, and check your grip.

chieftain
January 7, 2008, 07:22 PM
In my 50+ years of shooting I have not been able to limp wrist any Pistol of any caliber. (that includes 10yrs Marine Corps including 2 tours in Vietnam and as a Drill Instructor, Worked for a Florida Sheriff, and DOC, Compitition since I was 10 years old, and still competing) It is an excuse for a poor running weapon. Often dirty. If the question of limp wristing comes up, you have a problem with your weapon.

If it is a toy, my term for a non fighting weapon, then it doesn't matter.

New weapons need to be cleaned and inspected to it's smallest detail BEFORE SHOOTING. That includes magazines too. Many new weapons need to be tweaked. I have never had to send a gun back to the manufacturer. I have owned and/or own well over 500 guns in my life. I have always been able to get the most reliability out of any platform.

No I am not a Gunsmith. But anyone running a weapon for fighting, must know everything there is to know about that weapon. Down to the smallest pin/piece. What needs watching, what needs regular replacement, what to lube, how much to lube (saw a early model Glock about 20 years ago jam from to much lube), etc..... it's weakness's and strengths. Every weapon has them, every one of them. Know yours.

You know you have a rooky, or an idiot, when they only tell you the strengths of the weapon they carry. If they don't know or admit to the weakness's, all of them, they are amatuers potentially heading for trouble. It is one reason most institutions use Armour's. They don't trust the end user to maintain the weapon to save their own life.

This applies to LEO and Military as well. Just cause they pay you to carry a weapon doesn't doesn't make you a gunman. It may just make you a target waiting to happen. A true professional knows all their tools.

Use good full power ammunition, particularly during "break in". Monarch doesn't qualify. (I have often heard folks say I paid $x,xxx.xx for this gun "It better work perfect right from the box". Would you do that with an Aircraft or Car? Would you jump right into a race or fight with a car/plane you didn't break in first?

Mark your magazines Alpha/numeric so you can ID each one.

Shoot any fighting weapon at least 500 rounds for function, and then 500-1000 rounds in your carry ammo. Now you can say whether it will or will not function when needed for social intercourse with a given ammunition.

Even Glocks. A friend of mine, and he is Glockguy, just bought a first Gen model 17. It still had the original 'copper' lube in it. And it had been shot a lot, but for a Glock nowhere near to much.

Go figure.

Fred

Jason_G
January 7, 2008, 07:43 PM
New weapons need to be cleaned and inspected to it's smallest detail BEFORE SHOOTING. That includes magazines too.
A field stripping and cleaning/lubing is what I do to all my new guns. Some guns' warranties are voided by detail stripping them though. Not sure how a manufacturer would tell though.

It's a Glock, not a Kimber. There is absolutely no need to break in a Glock.
That's pretty much where my head's at, too.

That gun ought to run right out of the box after a clean/lube. That's what they're designed to do. Break-in times are expected for super-tight tolerance race-guns, or even some tightly fit customs that are intended for SD, but not an off-the-shelf Glock. If the problem is continuous and you are sure it's not your grip then get in touch with Glock and get your gun fixed or replaced.

Use good ammunition. Monarch doesn't qualify.
I share the same opinion. After seeing that box of nasty .45 ACP, it will never be run through any of my guns. I'm sure others might have had better experiences with it, but once bitten...
Never had any problems with Remington UMC or WWB for range ammo. Even Blazer Brass is a step up from the Monarch IMHO. I'm not sure if it's the culprit or not, but it would be the first thing (and cheapest thing) to test out.

Jason

DENALI
January 7, 2008, 09:01 PM
Hey high plains drifter it looks like this is just gonna degenerate into an I hate Glock thing from all the anti-Glock wankers out there. At any rate it would be rare for this to be a problem with the pistol itself, and to be honest with you I personally would have put a lot more ammo through it before posting it as a problem per se. I have no experience with the ammo you're using but thats the best place to start if you have ruled out limp wristing the pistol. The G-19 contrary to what you're being told by some here does not need to be held any differently or death gripped to function properly. This type of experience is almost always simple to correct and I would caution you to be patient with your pistol. If the problem is not you, check the mag for clean function, and change ammo, both easy fixes. If it continues with various ammo and you've ruled out mags ect.. bring it to a Glock certified armourer you'll have no diffilculty locating one. Good luck and be sure to follow up your post and let us know how it works out....................

JDGray
January 7, 2008, 09:44 PM
The only thing that ever mad my G19 stovepipe, was weak reloads. Oh.. and my 10yr old son shooting them. The reloads are fine in my CZ75, but the oversprung Glock, needs a very firm grip to make them work.

mes228
January 7, 2008, 10:12 PM
If this is a true story, send the pistol and mag back to Glock. I'm sure they wish to figure out why this is occurring. I'd first try another brand of ammo. However I've never seen a Glock that would not digest anything that will fit in the magazine. I've come to believe that a very large percentage of problems on the internet are bogus when it comes to Glock. I've never met anyone in person that has had a Glock malfunction regularly. To be honest, I've never seen one break or met anyone that has had one break. I have read such things on the internet.
But then again, I've read of space aliens, Luminati and Bilderberg conspiracies, unicorn's and other things. I know many gun people and pretty much travel in gun circles. You'd think I'd meet or see some of these Glock problems. Or as much as I shoot, and as many as I own, you would think I'd experience them. At any rate, send it back, if there's a problem they will make it right - immediately.

R&J
January 7, 2008, 10:37 PM
...had several instances of jamming, and since she was a new shooter, I ascribed some of the problem to her.

At any rate, I'd ordered three additional Glock OEM magazines for the gun, and when we marked them with tape, intending to put a mark on the tape for each malfunction, low and behold, all the marks ended up on one magazine. Who'd of thunk it! We exchanged the bad mag, and have since added a 33-rounder. 8500 rounds later--flawless!

My G17 has just passed the 9500-round mark without one hiccup!

But ammo matters! I got two shipments of .45 ACP Blazer Brass from Natchez, and some of the cartridges were 1/8" shorter than average! :scrutiny: These short ones would not feed in my G21, but would hang up on the feed ramp. This might've been lucky, as the short ones may have been over pressure from the bullet set-back! :eek:

Those were the only problems I've had with my G21, in .45 ACP mode. This gun has over 12,500 rounds on it--the latter 1200 being 10 mm. In converting the gun to 10 mm, I did have to experiment with ammos, springs, etc., to tweak the conversion to 90%+ reliability. I believe I can yet get it to 100%.

So far, all three Glocks have been fabulous firearms!

--Ray

Jason_G
January 9, 2008, 12:12 AM
Bump for curiosity's sake.
Did you ever figure out what was going on with your gun Drifter?

Jason

GeorgiaGlocker
January 9, 2008, 07:20 PM
I have over 8,000 rounds in my Glocks and have never had a problem! Not one. I use UMC Remington ammo at the range and Speer Gold Dots for carry.

chieftain
January 10, 2008, 12:13 AM
I've come to believe that a very large percentage of problems on the internet are bogus when it comes to Glock. I've never met anyone in person that has had a Glock malfunction regularly. To be honest, I've never seen one break or met anyone that has had one break. I have read such things on the internet.


Yea, I know what you mean.

I even heard on the internet that Glocks were perfect and never break.

I do know a bunch of police Armour's and Competition folks that would beg to differ with you. Both them and I like Glocks. But we are required to live and deal in the real world.

I have seen the old KB's usually of reloaded ammo, and I always discounted them. I have seen one Glock 21 KB and had only been fed factory FMC.

I have seen a Glock 23 shear both it's rear rails, I have seen a Glock 17 sheer it's locking lug off the barrel. I have seen many Glock magazines go tit's up too. Seen a lot of Glock sights break. Seen several Glocks break their trigger springs. ETC.....

So what. Glock is still a reliable pistol. Marginally not as reliable as some, but good enough that at times I carry one. Compete in Steel challenge with another one since July.

But don't blow smoke. Every machine needs service and needs to prove to me that I can reasonably expect it to go bang at the hour of my need. I call that break in. I Can't remember any pistol not running BETTER after running one to two thousand rounds through it. Also if it has a defect or bad part, it usually will show up in that time. If it is a fighting weapon, it is only your life.

Obviously, you worship at a different church.

AIN'T AMERICA WONDERFUL.

Go figure.

Fred

cookekdjr
January 10, 2008, 01:10 AM
The only thing that ever mad my G19 stovepipe, was weak reloads.
+1. One stovepipe out of hundreds fired. It was a weak reload.
I have shot Monarch in my G19 without a problem. I'm pretty perplexed here. Good luck, and let us know what comes of this.
-David

tsuehpsyde
January 10, 2008, 02:42 AM
I put 150 rounds of Monarch through my Glock 22 after I first got it, and it fired all 150 without any problems. As a matter of fact, I put over 500 rounds through it with no problems.

Then, this past weekend, a group of us from work went out and I had put over 100 rounds through the Glock before everyone got there. Then four other people shot a few mags through it, no problems. However, when my co-worker's wife shot my gun (who had never shot at all before today and was limp wristing it a bit), on about round 5, the slide held open. I sort of stared in amazement, but I took it, checked it (no stovepipe or misfeeding), field stripped and looked down the bore, re-assembled and told her to firm up her grip. Problem went away.

The video above proves this very well as well. If you've got a good grip on it, either try better ammo and/or a better mag. My Glock has been completely dependable.

bdg146
January 10, 2008, 03:14 AM
If this is a true story :rolleyes:

I've come to believe that a very large percentage of problems on the internet are bogus when it comes to Glock.... I have read such things on the internet.
But then again, I've read of space aliens, Luminati and Bilderberg conspiracies, unicorn's and other things. :rolleyes:

and as many as I own, you would think I'd experience them.

Glock worshipers are great, aren't they?

For argument's sake, let's say you own 20 Glocks, which is a lot of ugly pistols. Figuring that you'd have one bad experience would mean that you're betting 1 out of every 20 Glocks malfunctions and needs to be sent back to Glock. That's 5% of handguns manufactured. If that were true of any major handgun manufacturer, you'd hear all about it on places like THR, and they wouldn't be in business long. Just because you own a lot of Glocks and they all function doesn't mean that a bad Glock is as rare as a unicorn. Let's be realistic here, shall we? :banghead:

sturmgewehr
January 10, 2008, 10:22 AM
hat's 5% of handguns manufactured. If that were true of any major handgun manufacturer, you'd hear all about it on places like THR, and they wouldn't be in business long.
I don't know if I buy that. Kimber has a higher than 5% failure rate according to Kimber owners who poll themselves regularly on another forum.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/kimber_poll.gif

Kimber is still in business and selling guns like crazy...

Mad Magyar
January 10, 2008, 10:37 AM
As to Glock worshippers or detractors, it takes just a minute or two to scan the daily postings to see "what's up?"
Every major gun mfgr., including Glock, has a "pimply-faced, pencil-neck Geek" who monitors these forums & are eager & ready to jump in to bestow the unique qualities of certain handguns; but foremost to defend their quality....How do I know? I know....;) Their names are veiled in anononymity. Basic salesmanship & it's cheap & very cost effective....:)

bdg146
January 10, 2008, 01:36 PM
Kimber has a higher than 5% failure rate

Based on 209 voters. You can hardly base an entire manufacturer's reliability on 209 votes. And I was talking major malfunctions... ones that required a return to manufacturer for fixing. Let's not even get into the fact that people that are satisfied with a product are much less likely to voice their opinion on it than those who are not satisfied with a product.

I was making up numbers, so this really isn't worth arguing. My point was that if 1 in 20 new Glocks needed repair by Glock or a Glock certified armorer to work properly for the first time, then they wouldn't have a reputation for reliability. Therefore, it's kind of ridiculous to compare a malfunctioning Glock to a unicorn just because none of their 20 Glocks have had major malfunctions.

stevereno1
January 10, 2008, 03:25 PM
I Have never had a jam in either of my glocks. I don't know what to tell you.

sturmgewehr
January 10, 2008, 04:15 PM
Based on 209 voters. You can hardly base an entire manufacturer's reliability on 209 votes.
It's 209 current Kimber owners in a pro-Kimber forum (likely to be pretty honest). Are you suggesting that it's a bad sample? You know, people spread out across the country who purchased their guns at different times vs. people in the same town or state that purchased them roughly at the same time? It's a very good sample...

Hell, they can poll 1,000 people and can tell you who the next President will be many times, and within a few points.

LOL, I just loving readying silly excuses.

As for the Glocks, I'm not arguing they are junk or that they are poorly made. I believe quite the opposite to be true. I was taking issue with your notion a company could turn out 5% lemons and be forced out of business. Sure, it could happen but there are companies that turn out product that have a much higher failure rate than 5% and still have a loyal following. Heck, Colt did for YEARS (high failure rate) and throughout their darkest hours they still had loyalists and people buying their products.

bdg146
January 10, 2008, 04:53 PM
Ok, so I shouldn't say they would be out of business if that were the case. What I should have said is that they wouldn't have such a reputation for reliability if that were the case. It really wasn't the point of my post. And, I'm not really defending Glock either. I'm not a fan of them, never owned one, never will. The only reason I posted what I did was to point out how ridiculous it is for someone to compare a malfunctioning Glock to a unicorn and how ridiculous some Glock worshipers can be. Not exactly sure why you jumped all over me for this, but be my guest.

Are you suggesting that it's a bad sample?

And to answer your question, yes, as a matter of fact, I am. Feel free to believe everything you see on the internet if you wish, but for me, I ignore most of it. To suggest that a poll on a message board that has no rules/restrictions on
1) who may vote
2) the honesty of voters
3) how many times one may vote (different user names)
To suggest such a poll is a GOOD sample is unbelievable, especially considering the vast majority of Kimber owners probably do not frequent that site, or have never been there.

But considering the following fact:
You mention it was posted on a Kimber forum. Most likely, there are a good number of people on that forum that have more than one Kimber, since it is a pro-Kimber site, correct? Now, each person gets ONE vote. Not one vote PER kimber, one vote TOTAL. More than 5% of Kimbers weren't reported in that poll to have malfunctions. More than 5% of Kimber OWNERS reported having a problem. Surely some of the Kimber owners who reported a failure have 1, 2, or more other Kimbers that they haven't had a problem with. However, those Kimbers are ignored in this poll since the malfunctioning one is the one that gets the vote. In addition, surely some of the Kimber owners who reported no malfunctions have more than one kimber. However, their 2, 3, etc. Kimbers were all lumped in to ONE vote. To take that fact and translate that into "5% of Kimbers have a major malfunction" is illogical and just plain wrong.

But yeah, I'm done now. Sorry to the OP for derailing the thread, although it was pretty derailed already I suppose.

chieftain
January 10, 2008, 04:59 PM
Are you suggesting that it's a bad sample?

Yup.

Hell, they can poll 1,000 people and can tell you who the next President will be many times, and within a few points.


Yea, just like in the New Hampshire primary. Phooie.....

I own 5 Kimbers, and right now 3 glocks. Over the years I have owned an additional 13 Glocks that have come and gone.

I find no problems with my Kimbers, and on my own Glocks the only CONSISTENT problem over the years has been the magazines. Many folks will use an answer along the lines, "It wasn't the gun, it was the magazines."

I guess that is the epitaph they want on their tombstones. The tombstones needed because their weapon jammed. It is exactly the same problem when one uses poor/bad ammunition.

The weapon is a system. Any break down in the system will put you in the ground. It doesn't matter why. Now with all that said, we don't live in the world of possibilities, but the world of probabilities.

The longer any weapon system works for you reliably, the more one can expect it to be reliable the next time it is used. With one major proviso. It must be maintained and Cleaned per manufacturers standard.

Frankly, I find many very reliable weapons appear unreliable due to the lack of cleaning or maintenance.

Understand I am an old Marine DI. I put weapon maintenance and cleanliness on a religious basis. Maybe even a higher level. I have seen men I knew die because of dirty, unmaintained weapons. Never saw anyone die from no other reason than neglecting their religion.

It appears that todays Glock magazines are much better and reliable, to me, than the early high capacity mags of the Pre Ban days, even the metal lined ones.

Well, I think Glock today is much more reliable than any earlier Glock. I think they have solved many of their fundamental problems with their numerous non recall, recalls. Today I think it is a very good pistol.

With all this hogwash stated, all weapons fail. It is a matter of degree. I don't believe that Glock is necessarily the best at this measure, but it is one of the best. The difference very marginal, it isn't critical or really important.

I prefer other platforms, personally. But that is entirely for subjective personal reasons.

Because of medical and other reasons today, when I carry a 45 acp, I carry a Colt. When I carry 9mm I carry a Browning Hipower.

Right now when I shoot the Steel Challenge I shoot a Glock 34. When I shoot IDPA or Bowling pins, I shoot a 1911. When I shoot low light competitions I shoot 191l. But I am thinking of using the 34 for the low light stuff. But I still need a holster for the 34 and X200. The X200A's, I have 2 that are about to be replaced by the X300 for outside use. Will continue to use the X200B for inside work. Just ain't got off my duff and get a Holster to hold the gun and light for the 34. I use a Sidearmor version for my Kimber Warriors(2) with the lights attached.

Soon I will be using one of my Hipowers to shoot IDPA.

I cannot shoot my SIG's or revolvers much anymore for medical reasons. I truly miss them.

So there it is. I am not a Glock kool aide drinker, but far from a basher. Facts must be accepted for what they are. Facts. But every weapon has strengths, and every weapon has a weakness. It is my job as the operator to be intimately aware of them, and operate accordingly.

Go figure.

Fred

High Planes Drifter
January 10, 2008, 06:03 PM
I called GLOCK USA this morning and they want the pistol back. I'll box it up and ship it out. I'll post again with an update.


If this is a true story

Ya' got me man; I've got nothing better to do with my time than to come on a damn internet forum and complain about a gun I dont really own.:rolleyes:

AJD
January 10, 2008, 09:20 PM
Hopefully they can make things right for you.

Also,

Threads talking about S&W locks and any problems with Glocks tend to bring out high levels of immaturity in some people don't let it bother you.

Jason_G
January 11, 2008, 12:16 AM
I called GLOCK USA this morning and they want the pistol back. I'll box it up and ship it out. I'll post again with an update.


Quote:
If this is a true story

Ya' got me man; I've got nothing better to do with my time than to come on a damn internet forum and complain about a gun I dont really own.
:):):)

Glad to hear you're on your way to getting it all resolved.

Jason

sinistr
January 11, 2008, 01:09 AM
glocks are ugly,they rattle and have squishy triggers.plus the one i carry whispers swear words in a stuttering hiss when im in line at the liquer store....which people attribute to me!no,no,i say... it was my gun!butt no one believes me:mad: seriously,i have had alot of glocks with no real problems.try the remedies recommended,it could be you might have a lemon.don't be concerned,glock has outstanding cs.they will make it right.

chauncey
January 11, 2008, 02:58 AM
It took me a while to get around to polymer handguns, after years of shooting sigs, 1911's etc.. Initially, I had some jambs. don't think it is impossible for an experienced handgunner to limp wrist. I passed on Kahr, because the ones I fired never seemed to cycle reliably.

It wasn't the weapon, it was me.

Firepower!
January 12, 2008, 02:52 PM
If your Glock is brand new then take it back in for an exchange for a new one. I have had Glock 19 for past 14 years and it never jammed. It is possible that a gun may jam. After all we are dealing with a machine...and machines sometime do mal functions. I never keep a gun that jams on me. What if it was a situation scenario??

If you are not up to take it back in then try different ammo. Best ammo out there is by US or Serbian for 9mm.

Wedge
January 12, 2008, 08:48 PM
Ammunition was Monarch

There's your answer. I used it once in my Glock with terrible results. Took me 3x longer to clean the gun than with domesitic brands.

Good luck.

vandergl
March 24, 2008, 11:55 PM
did you by chance clean out the copper colored flakes (factory lube) in the slide? If you've not owned a glock and mistakenly clean those out it'll jam until you lubricate the slide.

stevereno1
March 25, 2008, 12:01 AM
Try good ammo first, if it happens again, call Glock H.Q. in Smyrna, Ga. They'll either fix said pistol, or replace it. Glocks ain't supposed to jam, so I'd be pissed too!

Tecolote
March 25, 2008, 12:48 AM
Are you using ten rounders with 2183 mag followers? Swap them for #3 followers and your problems should be solved.

MarcusWendt
March 25, 2008, 12:48 PM
If this is a true story

It's comments like this that give Glockians a bad name.

I've seen Glocks fail. It happens. Some of you who took that whole "Glock Perfection" thing hook, line, and sinker need to get into rehab.

Could it be the ammo? Sure, but it could also be the gun.

pbearperry
March 25, 2008, 01:24 PM
What's a Glock?Is it black?

PhillyGlocker
March 25, 2008, 09:29 PM
I'm calling BS. People create these threads to try and discredit Glocks. When Glocks jam, it's ammo related. This thread is a conspiracy in the making.

High Planes Drifter
March 25, 2008, 09:58 PM
I'm calling BS. People create these threads to try and discredit Glocks. When Glocks jam, it's ammo related. This thread is a conspiracy in the making.

:scrutiny:

Update:

I got the gun back a few weeks ago. I'll give a range report as soon as I get a chance to test it out. I've been working overtime and havent had a chance to get to the range. Factory says there is absolutely nothing wrong with the gun. They also told me the gun should fire fine with Monarch, and the service person I spoke to did not tell me to stop using it. They did replace the magazine I had marked for free. They also covered shipping back to me , which I thought was cool.

Deputy25
March 25, 2008, 10:51 PM
I have four Glocks, bought my 19 in the early 90s. I've never had a malfunction of any type. All factory jacketed ammo. Please let us know how your problem pans out. Glocks are as reliable as a democratic tax increase.

ZombiesAhead
March 26, 2008, 01:18 AM
I am almost positive you were not holding the pistol tight enough. I have a G19 and from the first shot (through several thousand) the ONLY jams I have ever had have been:

1. When I first shot it and did not grip it tight enough

2. When others unfamiliar with pistols or smaller people have shot it and not held it tight enough

"Limp-wristing" is a fact, at least with the G19. I know this from experience and I could recreate a limp-wrist jam on any day of the week for anyone who doesn't understand the physics behind it.

okiewita40
March 26, 2008, 10:58 AM
I'll second alexd. The only time I have ever had a glock or any polymer framed pistol jam on me has been because i did not grip it tight enough. This was caused by single handed rapid fire. It is just the nature of the beast. YMMV

MarcusWendt
March 26, 2008, 02:14 PM
I'm calling BS. People create these threads to try and discredit Glocks. When Glocks jam, it's ammo related. This thread is a conspiracy in the making.

LMAO!!!!!!

pbearperry
March 26, 2008, 02:19 PM
OK I am back from Glock rehab....Now what?

1KPerDay
March 26, 2008, 02:42 PM
They did replace the magazine I had marked for free. They also covered shipping back to me , which I thought was cool.
That is cool. In a fair world they should also have covered your shipping costs to them.

Coronach
March 26, 2008, 03:30 PM
It's 209 current Kimber owners in a pro-Kimber forum (likely to be pretty honest). Are you suggesting that it's a bad sample?If he isn't, I am. No internet forum poll is worth the electrons its transmitted with, scientifically speaking. Now, can it still be useful information? Sure, but you need to be aware of its utter lack of scientific value.You know, people spread out across the country who purchased their guns at different times vs. people in the same town or state that purchased them roughly at the same time?The problem is not with any of that, but with selection bias. Who goes to an internet discussion forum for a specific type of gun? People who really like their guns, people who really hate their guns, and people who are having problems with their guns. Say what you like about one group cancelling the other out, but that's unbridled and unwarranted optimism. What's missing is the big fat middle of the bell curve, where the people who aren't haters and aren't fanboys dwell.It's a very good sample...Take a statistics class and a research methods class and get back to me on that.Hell, they can poll 1,000 people and can tell you who the next President will be many times, and within a few points.Yeah, because they actually use randomization in their sample selection.LOL, I just loving readying silly excuses.Heh. OK.As for the Glocks, I'm not arguing they are junk or that they are poorly made. I believe quite the opposite to be true. I was taking issue with your notion a company could turn out 5% lemons and be forced out of business. Sure, it could happen but there are companies that turn out product that have a much higher failure rate than 5% and still have a loyal following. Heck, Colt did for YEARS (high failure rate) and throughout their darkest hours they still had loyalists and people buying their products.That's probably true. I doubt their failure rate was that high (5% is massize), but there are a lot of companies that produce bad product but survive on their logo...for a while.

Mike

Ske1etor
March 26, 2008, 03:37 PM
It's a Glock, not a Kimber. There is absolutely no need to break in a Glock.

Too bad it isn't a Kimber. If it was we could tell him how to fix it. Unlike you bunch of "Hey, I just point and click and it works... I don't know how it works, I just know that it does because the internet told me so!" guys...

pbearperry
March 26, 2008, 11:12 PM
I have owned many semi autos through the years and never had malfunction problems.However that was before gun makers added all kinds of bells and whistles and high prices on their guns.Wait a minute,I may have stumbled onto something?

another okie
March 26, 2008, 11:40 PM
In looking at those "limp wrist test" videos I notice that the 1911 has a grip safety, which means the shooter has to be holding it tight enough to take the grip safety off, so I doubt he's holding it as lightly as he holds the Glock. But maybe they addressed that somewhere and I missed it.

A gun is a machine, and every one is different. Maybe yours just doesn't like Monarch, and you should accept it and move on. Does it work with the new magazine?

Confederate
March 27, 2008, 01:32 AM
I must say I'm very impressed by the videos posted by sturmgewehr. As I see it, even people who don't "limp wrist" their guns while firing may do it under stress (such as a close-in physical attack where one's arm may be pushed back by a knife weilding bad guy). The 1911 certainly held its own in this case, as did the Beretta and the Sig.

I like revolvers better overall than autos, but I can't deny firepower is certainly a powerful advantage, as shooting that Beretta showed. The idea of buying an auto for nearly a grand, like many 1911s nowadays, then having to shoot 200-500 rounds through it to "break it in" it just doesn't sit well with me.

I'm amazed that I can find so many good deals on decent used autos like the S&W 59/39-series. All the ones I've either shot or seen shot right out of the box performed flawlessly. The only exception is when the ammuntion was handloaded, and 9mm is notoriously difficult to load perfectly by many people.

Until now I thought Glocks were that kind of gun: flawless out of the box, but these videos certainly seem to belie that. On the other hand, I've seen very few 1911s out of the box that have shot flawlessly and without a malfunction.

The most perfect auto I've shot is the Beretta 92 and the S&W 645, 659 and 5906. Oh, and my father has a Sig Saur .45 that has performed very well. (I just don't like the gun.)

Coronach
March 27, 2008, 12:42 PM
The idea of buying an auto for nearly a grand, like many 1911s nowadays, then having to shoot 200-500 rounds through it to "break it in" — it just doesn't sit well with me.The 1911 is unreliable as a rule only when you start to deviate from JMB's base design. Since most custom guns, or even high-end production guns, are set up to be very tight (read: extremely accurate) it is unsurprising that they require a little time to break in, or a trip or two to the smith to get running right. Take a box stock milspec 1911 that is made right and it should run like a top. It just won't seem as tight as a Johannes Q. Publique Custom Wonderblaster, and probably won't group as nicely, either. TANSTAAFL.

That said, in an ideal world, no mechanical device should ever require break in. I, however, do not live in an ideal world, I live in Ohio. As such, I have come to accept that my car should be driven differently for the first few hundred miles, my Windows Operating System requires at least one service pack to be running right (probably two, this is Microsoft, after all), my scope mount should be checked for tightness regularly, and my handgun should probably get at least 500 rounds through it before I consider it to be operating as it should.

Really, it's not that huge of a deal. I would want to put a couple hundred rounds through something that I may call upon to save my life before I actually call upon it to do so anyway. This is just a part of that shakedown cruise. Any malfunctions early in the roundcount that do not reappear are of no concern to me. Stuff that keeps showing up, however, is.

Mike

GLOOB
March 27, 2008, 12:58 PM
I certainly believe that limp wristing is a real phenomenon. In the case of the GLOCK, it's because the frame is light. No, not light. Really frikkin' light! Anyone who owns a GLOCK will recall the surprise they had the first time they field stripped it. When the slide comes off the frame, you end up looking at the thing to make sure the insides didn't accidentally fall out. The other part of the equation is the GLOCK has a pretty beefy slide. This means it moves slower under recoil (and the lighter recoil spring works for a longer duration of time, spreading out the felt recoil before the slide finally hits the frame rails).

For a gun to work, there has to be a big enough combination of mass and reciprocal force to keep the frame from being pushed by the recoil spring, causing it to follow along with the slide. The "Limp Wrist" videos posted on page 1 of this thread demonstrate how the 1911 design very thoughtfully incorporates enough dead weight in the frame so that their pistol might cycle even if held improperly. Afterall, you never know when you might need to take a shot with just your trigger finger, as the grip safety rests precipitously against a twig. Or perhaps, your hand is completely paralyzed except for your trigger finger. It's comforting to know that as long as your 1911 pattern gun is "one of the good ones" and has been recently cleaned and oiled, it'll be ready for a quick followup in the above scenarios (if the gun doesn't fly out of your hand on the first shot), particularly considering that you may find it difficult to hit your intended target in this fashion within the first several shots. This calls for a lot of practice in SD drills in preparation of SPH - spontaneous hand paralysis.

The GLOCK designer very rashly took this essential weight out of the frame, expecting a semi-functional hand to always be there, at least somewhat wrapped around the frame, when fired. Thanks to this video, we all see the clear deficiency in this line of thinking.

If there proves to be enough admiration of the 1911 design based on the merits of this video demonstration, I will start plans to develop a BUG with the ultimate in concealability. It will feature a zero finger grip. It will be held only with the trigger finger, and you fire it by pushing the gun violently at the target, then quickly pulling back. Of course, it will be chambered in .44 magnum and can be had with optional laser sight and Hogue trigger-sock.

Flopsy
March 27, 2008, 01:10 PM
I've never been a believer in the break-in period, but maybe my experience is just limited. You're getting the thing brand new in 100% condition from the factory - it should function 100% then, no?

And for the record, I had a brand new Glock. It did have malfunctions but only due to a mag spring issue caused by a Pearce grip extender. I recommend completely switching out your mags and seeing if the problem continues.

Ske1etor
March 27, 2008, 03:28 PM
I've never been a believer in the break-in period, but maybe my experience is just limited. You're getting the thing brand new in 100% condition from the factory - it should function 100% then, no?

Meh, what you have to realize is that these firearms aren't being built by hand here. They are being machined from stock and sometimes the smallest little imperfection gets through. Firing the gun will normally resolve these little imperfections and that is the "Break In Period".

OK, for instance... I see by reading your signature that you own a Mossberg 500. If you have put any serious amount of rounds through it you have no doubt noticed that the pump action has smoothed out since you have purchased it. That is all the break in period is. It doesn't necessarily mean that the firearm won't work from the beginning but it needs to be used to smooth out.

Coronach
March 27, 2008, 04:10 PM
You're getting the thing brand new in 100% condition from the factory - it should function 100% then, no?No. The world is full of mechanical devices that need to wear a little to work smoothly. If you want something to work utterly smoothly from the start, you need to:

A. buy an item that is designed with enough clearance between moving parts to be reliable without hand fitting

or

B. pay for skilled labor and hand fitting.

The problem with A is that it looks/feels/acts clunky or sloppy, and is sometimes a less efficient design, and the problem with B is that craftsmen cost $$$$$$$.

As a society we want to buy things that look like they're hand-fitted by skilled artisans and cost like they were stamped out by the million and tossed together by daylabor.

TANSTAAFL.

Mike

Ltlabner
March 27, 2008, 04:49 PM
The GLOCK designer very rashly took this essential weight out of the frame, expecting a semi-functional hand to always be there, at least somewhat wrapped around the frame, when fired. Thanks to this video, we all see the clear deficiency in this line of thinking.

So you'd rather lug 30% more weight around 100% of the time on the off chance you might need to fire your weapon with your pinkie while it rests on a twig .0005% of the time?

chieftain
March 27, 2008, 05:18 PM
I don't consider any fighting weapon to be deemed reliable until at least 1,000/one thousand rounds have run reliably through it.

Until then it is suspect. That is my job, testing my tools, when ever possible and practical.

No professional would ever go to a firefight with a weapon he hasn't tested, and run through his own "run in" regime.

It ain't rocket science. It is being practical and responsible.

Apparently in some folks lives, stuff doesn't happen. In my life stuff still happens, and most often when I least expect it.

I have extensive military combat experience from Vietnam. One thing I learned was, that in Combat, even more stuff happens than in ordinary life. One thing you can control and to get to as low a negative potential as possible is the reliability of your weapons. Test them, tweak them where the weapon and you need them to be tweaked. Don't get carried away with the tweaking though.

Believe me, when I tell you, folks who fight with weapons regularly will do what they can to reduce the Darwin factor when ever possible.

And it don't matter who's name is on the slide. Don't go out of your way to be fatally stupid.

As a civilian CCW and Home defense situations, may actually make the testing even more of a necessity. Why? Because if your weapon goes down, there ain't no squad to cover your six, while you desperately fight off Darwin and try to get your "Sierra" together.

Go figure.

Fred

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