Credit Card Processing Company Rejects Firearms Industry


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The Sheriff
January 7, 2008, 07:17 PM
CREDIT CARD PROCESSING COMPANY REJECTS FIREARMS INDUSTRY

REFUSES TO PROCESS TRANSACTIONS . . . Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. are refusing to process any credit card transactions between federally licensed firearms retailers, distributors and manufacturers -- a move which will severely limit available inventory of firearms and ammunition to military, law enforcement and law-abiding Americans.

The first company to be affected by this decision appears to be firearms distributor CDNN Sports Inc.

"We were contacted recently by First Data/Citi Merchant Services by a June Rivera-Mantilla stating that we were terminated and funds were being seized for selling firearms in a non-face-to-face transaction," said Charlie Crawford, president of CDNN Sports Inc. "Although perfectly legal, we were also informed that no transactions would be processed in the future, even for non-firearms. I find this very frightening."

To voice your concern to Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp., please contact June Rivera-Mantilla at 631-683-7734 or her supervisor Robert Tenenbaum at 631-683-6570.

To change to an NSSF-affiliated credit card processing program, contact Payment Alliance International at 1-866-371-2273 (ext. 1131).

http://www.nssf.org/share/images/letter.jpg

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h2ojunkie
January 7, 2008, 07:36 PM
Robert Tenenbaum is out of the office until Tues Jan 8th, but rest assured he will be returning to a phone call from me informing them how their actions has cost them any future business from myself or my company.

As a business owner myself, I support citi group's right to choose not to have a gun dealer as a customer. After all, they should have the right to refuse service to anyone.

However, I take issue with the fact that they are choosing to withold $75,000.00 that is not theirs, from a customer they have told is no longer welcome to do business with them for "the greater of six months, or longer".

KMKeller
January 7, 2008, 07:42 PM
Their logic is completely flawed. I hope he sues their arses off.

Cosmoline
January 7, 2008, 07:45 PM
Shipping to an FFL across state lines is banned? I love how these idiots make up their own laws. And since when were credit card companies held liable for the legality of particular sales?

What a bunch of nonsense. Someone at the company is pushing an AGENDA, rest assured. And it has nothing to do with making Citibank money or protecting against risks. I wouldn't be surprised if this person is operating without approval.

The customer needs to get an attorney who can take a look at their contract of service and contact Rivera's boss.

TAB
January 7, 2008, 07:59 PM
There is also another letter that is not posted that gave thier reason for the canceling... I would be willing to bet that in his contract with them, it is clearly laid out what you can and can not do. Lots of merchant contracts expressly state that all sales must be person, taking a payment over the phone or via the internet would be a clear violation. Since there is diffrent risks envoled with take internet/mail order/ phone sales, you are charged diffrently.

Come on guys, don't jump to conclusions with out having all the facts.

Mojo-jo-jo
January 7, 2008, 08:15 PM
Citibank has a history of being anti-gun, and went as far as to begin closing accounts of firearms-related businesses in 2000.

http://ads.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15299
http://ads.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15298

After public pressure, they relented and reversed this policy. I guess it's back now, but now cloaked under the veil of preventing "illegal activity."

IIRC, There was another case sometime around this period (2000-ish) where Citibank charged back a gun purchase to the merchant and refused to process the charge due to their "non-violence" policy. I could not find a cite for this, however.

The Sheriff
January 7, 2008, 08:18 PM
Credit card companies don't make the laws!
...If the transaction is legal, they serve only as a faciltator.

k_dawg
January 7, 2008, 09:47 PM
I have had a credit card for my business with them since 1993, that has monthly turnover in 4 digits.

I will be calling to verify if this letter is true, and if so, canceling it immediately.

2RCO
January 7, 2008, 09:51 PM
I have a few issues with this and wonder about the validity of this letter/claim.

hso
January 7, 2008, 10:18 PM
Odd. I just paid for a pistol to be shipped to one of the gun stores I deal with using a credit card and CDNN certainly shipped the pistol. We need a fact check on this before we start burning down Citibank.

F4GIB
January 7, 2008, 10:21 PM
Bankers should not try to be lawyers or they should hire better lawyers.

It is not illegal to "sell" or "buy" a gun in a face to face or non-face to face transaction interstate, on the internet or whatever. What is illegal is delivery of physical possession of the firearm to a non-FFL without going through the the proper steps (state of residence dealer, face-to-face, NICS check, and so forth). Citibank is confusing a transfer of title with a transfer of possession.

It is ATF's job to "monitor or track adherence to these gun Control Laws" because they have the training and the legal tools. It is not Citibank's responsibility.

armed85
January 7, 2008, 10:23 PM
Did this very large company that is Citibank even consult an attorney before sending that letter?

Selling a handgun to a person in another state and shipping across state lines has not been banned. CDNN only ships to addresses listed on an FFL as per the BATFE and the law.

The law is contradictory on this matter. You cannot by law walk into "Bob's Guns Store" in another state from your state of residency, buy a handgun, and take possession of it face-to-face. However, you can buy a handgun from the same "Bob's Guns Store" and have Bob ship that gun to another gun store in your state of residency. That store will then complete an FFL transfer and after passing a NICS background check, you take possession of your handgun.

The end result is the same, but with more paperwork.

Withholding $75,000 opens the door for a lawsuit.

mekender
January 7, 2008, 11:23 PM
http://www.nssf.org/news/fromBP.cfm?BPseq=704

i saw the story earlier today, and im fairly sure that the contract will have something in it that stipulates that they can void the contract if the merchant participates in business that the CC company feels is immoral

but that wont make it right for sure

Al Norris
January 8, 2008, 01:50 AM
Unlawful restraint of interstate trade.

Charles Daly
January 8, 2008, 02:16 AM
This story is definitely true. I spoke with Mr. Crawford at CDNN who later faxed me a copy of the termination letter he received from First Data.

During a phone conversation that Mr. Crawford had with First Data, First Data told him he was no better than soeone running a brothel, and that if his actions selling guns was not illegal then it was certainly immoral and First Data would have nothing more to do with them. This to a company, CDNN, who pays on average $50,000 in fees to First Data monthly.

First Data can cancel the contract, that is perfectly legal. I'm not sure of the $75,000 reserve they are taking for 6 months. That would seem extreme to me. However, CDNN will find another credit card processor and First Data will lose about $600,000 in revenue from CDNN's account.

What we should hope to do here is spread the word of this travesty and make sure anyone in our industry that uses First Data as their credit card processer change immediately. Perhaps First Data will lose several millions of dollars and perhaps the idiot in charge of this policy at First Data will soon be looking for a job. That is about the best outcome we can hope for out of this.

mikec
January 8, 2008, 02:26 AM
First Data is a privately held company. Here is the owner's web site: http://www.kkr.com/

I doubt writing them would help any. I think telling the banks that First Data's "ideals" are going to hurt THEIR business might get more response.

taliv
January 8, 2008, 09:28 AM
Odd. I just paid for a pistol to be shipped to one of the gun stores I deal with using a credit card and CDNN certainly shipped the pistol. We need a fact check on this before we start burning down Citibank.

didn't the letter state they would be given until the end of this month before they shut off card processing?

Hugo
January 8, 2008, 11:50 PM
Saw on Wikipedia that First Data was publicly traded until October 1, 2007, then it went private. Looks like the new owners are running it into the ground. Sad really. Fortunately there are other processing companies. Use them and screw First Data until they wise up.

As for Citi, there are other banks to use. Don't give Bigots business. Nuts to them.

Srigs
January 9, 2008, 12:37 AM
I guess I won't be getting that Citibank Visa card. :cuss:

What a bunch of idiots :banghead:

BAT1
January 9, 2008, 12:59 AM
Who needs laws when the corporate bankers can write their own rules, how arrogant. They just lost a lot of business.

Preacherman
January 9, 2008, 01:19 AM
I've posted about this on my blog (http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/01/citi-merchant-services-refuses-to.html). Let's see how much of a response Citi gets from firearms owners across the nation.

Eightball
January 9, 2008, 01:45 AM
I hope someone gets sued, and fired, and that the company reverses itself.

It would be unfortunate if wealthy anti gunners did this with EVERY card buisness. Sure, the companies can sue and get it overturned, but that costs time and money, and money isn't infinite in the firearms world.

Zak Smith
January 9, 2008, 04:55 PM
To corroborate this, I attempted to get a merchant account through one of my business banks a few weeks ago-- their "partner" was First Data. Although the account agent was helpful and nice enough on the phone, it became clear that they had an issue with firearms transactions, and that dealer-to-dealer transfers paid for by credit card were definitely out.

The #2 and #3 merchant services providers I talked to had no problem with it. I went with #3.

-z

dmftoy1
January 9, 2008, 05:03 PM
There's a post over on castboolits.gunloads.com where someone says that this decision is now being reconsidered in light of the reaction. I cancelled mine today and was surprised that the account rep said it was the first he'd heard of it and that he thought that it (Citibank's action) was one of the dumbest things he'd seen.

mikec
January 10, 2008, 04:36 AM
Since First Data is a private company we can't do much to them BUT Citi is a public company. How many here want to buy a block of Citi stock and raise a fuss at their annual shareholders meeting?

I will buy $250 of stock and sign over my stock voting rights to a proxy. Maybe if we go after a company or two this way the antis will think twice.

BTW, PETA, an organization that I despise, has used this tactic to their advantage.

nhhillbilly
January 10, 2008, 07:48 AM
Received a reply from them today. It is basically a non-answer.


Thank you for your message. The posting at www.nssf.org regarding Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. is inaccurate. Further, while we generally do not comment on individual merchant customers, we would like to briefly address the 12/26 letter posted on the web site. Regretfully, that letter did a less than satisfactory job of expressing applicable policies. Those policies are more properly detailed below.

Citi Merchant Services and First Data do process firearms transactions. Our policy restrictions address only the sale of firearms in a non face-to-face environment. Non face-to-face transactions occur when a cardholder is not present in front of a merchant and includes mail order and online purchases. It is our policy not to service merchants that make non face-to-face sales in a number of industries, including firearms.

It is not the policy of Citi Merchant Services or First Data to refuse to process transactions from duly licensed merchants that sell firearms in face-to-face transactions at the point of sale.

The posting also incorrectly states that Robert Tenenbaum is the supervisor when, in fact, he is not.

The information in this message may be proprietary and/or confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify First Data immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer.

NG VI
January 10, 2008, 11:35 AM
are they aware that there is no such thing as a non face to face sale when dealing with firearms? it may not be a CDNN employee who is FTF with the end customer, but someone with an FFL certainly will

Old Fuff
January 10, 2008, 11:40 AM
I find First Data's explanation to be highly suspect. If their policy is that only face-to-face transactions are acceptable because of possible fraud, why is there no crackdown on companies such as Amazon.com, Ubid.com or Tigerdirect.com, all of who sell other kinds of merchandise? If First Data want to enforce this policy they should withdraw from ALL online transactions of ANY kind where the transaction is not face-to-face. It will be a cold day in a very warm place when this happens. What they are trying to do is an attack against the firearms industry alone.

Soybomb
January 10, 2008, 06:59 PM
I was skeptical at first given my dislike for CDNN and the seeming bias of the original article but the above letter from Citi seems to be quite revealing of the situation. I'll have to write citi as an otherwise happy customer.

The Sheriff
January 10, 2008, 09:34 PM
For those of you who are interested in contacting one of the two names in that earlier Citi letter, here are some verified addresses for the first person named in that letter.
...These were sent to me by an anonymous source who wishes to remain exactly that.
june.rivera-mantilla@firstdatacorp.com
june.rivera@firstdata.com
june.rivera@firstdatacorp.com

chechnya
January 12, 2008, 06:08 AM
First Data is a privately held company. Here is the owner's web site: http://www.kkr.com/

I doubt writing them would help any. I think telling the banks that First Data's "ideals" are going to hurt THEIR business might get more response.


Kohlberg, Kravis and Roberts, rings a bell. Oh yeah! It's the same assho**s that bought a local energy company for $900 million and flipped it for $5 billion dollars. The deal was so underhanded and sleazy, that now Texans, due to energy deregulation have to pay higher electric bills because of that. Sure it is perfectly legal, but i don't really think they care all that much. Thanks for the exploitation %#$@*&!!

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/23/business/power.php

eldomatic
January 12, 2008, 04:41 PM
During a phone conversation that Mr. Crawford had with First Data, First Data told him he was no better than someone running a brothel, and that if his actions selling guns was not illegal then it was certainly immoral and First Data would have nothing more to do with them.

I wonder how much of the multi-gazillion dollar online pornography business First Data refuses to process? :banghead:

Self-righteous hypocrites!

alan
January 12, 2008, 06:58 PM
I came upon this fiasco via an NRA Alert today.

I tried calling the credit card outfit, at phone numbers listed and essentially was "run around the telephone tree", to use a polite phrase. Dropped an e-mail to National Shooting Sports Foundation, thir information was included.

Seems as if the credit card mafia thinks that gun seller is operating illegally, or making sales in violation of the law. If this were true, it seems to me that the relevant LE outfits (BATFE) would become involved.

What's up does appear to be a reasonable question.

alsaqr
January 12, 2008, 08:25 PM
Cannot believe that CDNN continued to to do business with Citi-Bank after they were placed on the NRA list of organizations who support gun control.

alan
January 13, 2008, 03:24 PM
Possibly a little "off point", but never-the-less interesting.

Wasn't CITI Group caught on the "wrong side" of this sub prime debacle. I believe that one of their top management types was dumped, of course, with suitable golden parachutes, as was an executive from Merrill, which used to be Merrill Lynch and so forth and so on, but that was a while back, when they had a much longer name, as in Pierce, Fenner and Beane or Smith.

alsaqr
January 13, 2008, 07:06 PM
"Wasn't CITI Group caught on the "wrong side" of this sub prime debacle."

Big time!!! They lost their butts. It is somewhat off topic. However, all the furor over guns may have been generated during Citi's efforts to re-organize.

"FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Citigroup Inc. (NYSE: C)
November 04, 2007

Citi's Sub-Prime Related Exposure in Securities and Banking

New York, NY – Citigroup Inc. (NYSE: C) announced today significant declines since September 30, 2007 in the fair value of the approximately $55 billion in U.S. sub-prime related direct exposures in its Securities and Banking (S&B) business. Citi estimates that, at the present time, the reduction in revenues attributable to these declines ranges from approximately $8 billion to $11 billion (representing a decline of approximately $5 billion to $7 billion in net income on an after-tax basis).

These declines in the fair value of Citi's sub-prime related direct exposures followed a series of rating agency downgrades of sub-prime U.S. mortgage related assets and other market developments, which occurred after the end of the third quarter. The impact on Citi's financial results for the fourth quarter from changes in the fair value of these exposures will depend on future market developments and could differ materially from the range above.

Citi also announced that, while significant uncertainty continues to prevail in financial markets, it expects, taking into account maintaining its current dividend level, that its capital ratios will return within the range of targeted levels by the end of the second quarter of 2008. Accordingly, Citi has no plans to reduce its current dividend level.

The $55 billion in U.S. sub-prime direct exposure in S&B as of September 30, 2007 consisted of (a) approximately $11.7 billion of sub-prime related exposures in its lending and structuring business, and (b) approximately $43 billion of exposures in the most senior tranches (super senior tranches) of collateralized debt obligations which are collateralized by asset-backed securities (ABS CDOs).

Lending and Structuring Exposures

Citi's approximately $11.7 billion of sub-prime related exposures in the lending and structuring business as of September 30, 2007 compares to approximately $13 billion of sub-prime related exposures in the lending and structuring business at the end of the second quarter and approximately $24 billion at the beginning of the year.1 The $11.7 billion of sub-prime related exposures includes approximately $2.7 billion of CDO warehouse inventory and unsold tranches of ABS CDOs, approximately $4.2 billion of actively managed sub-prime loans purchased for resale or securitization at a discount to par primarily in the last six months, and approximately $4.8 billion of financing transactions with customers secured by sub-prime collateral.2 These amounts represent fair value determined based on observable transactions and other market data. Following the downgrades and market developments referred to above, the fair value of the CDO warehouse inventory and unsold tranches of ABS CDOs has declined significantly, while the declines in the fair value of the other sub-prime related exposures in the lending and structuring business have not been significant."

alan
January 14, 2008, 01:29 AM
alsaqr:

Re the "relationship" between First Data and CTI, could be that the apple does not fall all that far from the tree after all.

biscuitninja
January 14, 2008, 01:43 AM
Haven't had any issues with Citi at all. Maybe i'm from a different branch.
-bix

The Sheriff
January 16, 2008, 10:44 AM
Citi's letter to to NSSF (http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/NSSF_First_Data_response.pdf)
NSSF reply to Citi (http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/First_Data_Letter.pdf)

I was recently made aware of the anti gun policies of both First Data, and Citi services with regard to their treatment of Federal Firearm Licensed dealers (FFL's) in non "face to face" transactions of firearm sales.
Even after you have been made aware of the fact that these transactions are perfectly legal and routine, your company insists on maintaining its misguided and self destructive policy.
Until you change your policy on this issue, and issue an apology, I will not be using your credit card in the future.
I will also be encouraging my friends and business associates to do the same.
I'm sure you are aware of the fact, that several websites throughout the country are now disclosing your unfortunate bias to millions of legitimate, lawful gun owners, and sport shooting enthusiasts.
The result of which can only help to supplement Citi bank's already dismal financial performance made public in the last few days.


Their form letter reply:
Thank you for your message.



Citi Merchant Services and First Data do process firearms transactions. Our policy restrictions address only the sale of firearms in a non face-to-face environment. Non face-to-face transactions occur when a cardholder is not present in front of a merchant and includes mail order and online purchases. It is our policy not to service merchants that make non face-to-face sales in a number of industries, including firearms.



It is not the policy of Citi Merchant Services or First Data to refuse to process transactions from duly licensed merchants that sell firearms in face-to-face transactions at the point of sale.

...And, mine to them:
It may be your policy, but mine is not to use your credit card until you apologize publicly, after you change yours!
..."Non face to face" transactions are perfectly legal between FFL's, and Citi bank doesn't write the laws!
...Indeed, it is apparent, that you can't even run a bank.

News Shooter
January 16, 2008, 10:54 AM
Citibank is nothing more than a corporate bandit that rips off its customers.

Nothing is too bad for them. Rot in hell:mad:

PakWaan
January 16, 2008, 10:55 AM
Citi Group just posted the largest loss in their 196 year history, over $10 billion - it was all over CNN yesterday. Great time for them to start being picky about which transactions they allow.......

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-wed_citi_0116jan16,1,7062989.story

.

HuntAndFish
January 17, 2008, 01:12 AM
The Sheriff,

Both of your links point to the same file. FYI.

The Sheriff
January 17, 2008, 09:27 AM
Fixed it!
...Thanks for the "heads up"!

JaxNovice
January 17, 2008, 10:30 AM
Do not demonize Citibank in all of this mess. They had nothing to do with it. First Data establishes the underwriting criteria and manages each account.

strat81
January 17, 2008, 12:09 PM
Do not demonize Citibank in all of this mess. They had nothing to do with it. First Data establishes the underwriting criteria and manages each account.
Citi's name is on the door, so they're gonna get the beating. The fact Citi has not come out and said, "This is First Data's policy, not ours" also speaks volumes.

Who gets the bad press and takes it on the chin when an automaker has a recall? The automaker, not the subcontractor who actually made the defective part.

And for business school students, this is why it is important you perform due diligence when licensing your brand name.

Old Fuff
January 17, 2008, 12:35 PM
As I understand it, First Data is owned and part of Cit. :uhoh:

So far all of the public statements coming out from Cti support the policy of no non face-to-face credit card transactions in firearms sales. They ignore the fact that no firearm is delivered without the face-to-face exchange that they demand does happen, even though it is with the receiving FFL dealer rather then the seller. If Cti's policy should become a banking/credit card industry standard most gun sales would be restricted to nothing but local retailers (excluding private sales in some cases) and this is what the anti-gunners' want.

Ohen Cepel
January 17, 2008, 12:54 PM
Citi did a similar deal a few years ago to a gunsmith (can't remember the name right now).

They have some real issues with logic in my mind.

Ever since then, whenever I get a card offer from them I just put a few NRA stickers on it and mail it back to them. That way they get to pay for the return postage and should get a subtle message if they get a pile of them each day.

strat81
January 17, 2008, 01:12 PM
As I understand it, First Data is owned and part of Cit.
Incorrect.
http://ir.firstdatacorp.com/
Effective September 24, 2007 First Data was acquired by an affiliate of Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.


ETA:
https://www.firstdatapartners.com/citi/about.php
Citi Merchant Services Provided by First Data Merchant Services Corporation is a contractual alliance in the U.S. between Citicorp Payment Services, Inc. (CPSI), a wholly-owned subsidiary of Citibank, N.A., which, in turn, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Citigroup (NYSE: C) and First Data Merchant Services Corporation (FDMS), a wholly-owned subsidiary of First Data Corporation (NYSE: FDC). FDMS will provide all the systems, technology, processing services and customer support to the alliance.

ETA 2: I am not absolving Citi for their role in this. I'd hold them just as responsible as First Data.

Old Fuff
January 17, 2008, 04:03 PM
Citi Merchant Services Provided by First Data Merchant Services Corporation is a contractual alliance in the U.S. between Citicorp Payment Services, Inc. (CPSI), a wholly-owned subsidiary of Citibank, N.A., which, in turn, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Citigroup (NYSE: C)

...and First Data Merchant Services Corporation (FDMS), a wholly-owned subsidiary of First Data Corporation (NYSE: FDC)

So does anyone know who is on first... ?? :banghead:

Cti would seem to be the public face with which NSSF is dealing. I highly doubt that one would get away doing what they are if both weren't in agreement, and there is no evidence that either is in disagreement with the other over this issue...

That's enough for me. :fire:

strat81
January 17, 2008, 04:24 PM
Agreed, Old Fuff.

LightsOut
January 17, 2008, 05:27 PM
Good job guys. I just called 631-683-6570 and it looks like their getting flooded. They've changed their voicemail to reflect the recent concerns over this move. Check it out.

MudPuppy
January 22, 2008, 05:25 PM
Any word on how this is going?

archigos
March 17, 2008, 04:33 AM
Alright, I know this is delayed, but I just have to say I'm proud of myself... I just called to cancel my Citi credit card. The guy said he'd "make sure my reasons for canceling it were forwarded on up" but, that probably doesn't mean anything.

Bubbles
March 17, 2008, 08:48 AM
It's actually very difficult to get away from First Data, the transaction processing company with the anti-gun policy. Even my local bank uses them. :(

The only decent alternative I've found is First National Bank Omaha (http://www.firstnational.com/001/html/en/personal/personal.html), which, interestingly enough, is the bank that handles the NRA credit cards.

jad0110
March 17, 2008, 10:56 AM
Though it may take a little longer to process your transaction, a simple end run around ALL credit card companies and their processing companies is to pay with CASH. Most firearms dealers still accept personal checks, last time I checked. That's how I bought my S&W K-22 and my Yugo M70. I didn't use a credit card. As an added bonus, sometimes you can talk the seller into an addition 5% or so discount by paying cash. Each time you pay with a credit card, the seller has to pay a fee to the credit card company equal to some small % of the sale price (3%, 5%, 6% ... I can't remember). That's how I like to do it with my local dealer. I talk them down a bit on their retail price, then get an extra bit over and above that for writing a personal check.

This latest bunch of crap from Citi and First Data is yet one more reason why I have sworn off all plastic except my VISA debit card.

strat81
March 17, 2008, 11:03 AM
Though it may take a little longer to process your transaction, a simple end run around ALL credit card companies and their processing companies is to pay with CASH.
But if I do that, how can I simultaneously bury myself in crushing debt AND hurt the economy?

Any word on what is going on with CDNN and First Data?

woo18
March 17, 2008, 06:55 PM
I just cancelled both of my Citibank cards. I let them know my reasons why. We must protest with our feet. To the best of our ability, take our business elsewhere.

Old Fuff
March 17, 2008, 07:28 PM
In their latest catalog CDNN Sports is saying that they have a new credit card processor, and they are continuing to accept the popular credit cards just as before.

They point out that the credit card companies were not causing any problem, and the full fault is with CTI. They recommend that other dealers and distributors should be aware of what CTI is doing and advise those in the trade to protect themselves by using a processor not connected to CTI.

Since they found one, others can too.

Anyone can read the catalog, or download a copy in .PDF format by going to:

www.cdnnsports.com

alan
March 18, 2008, 02:50 PM
The credit card momzers involved herewith, being tied in/up with CITI Group, of Sub Prime fame, looks like Wall Street screwed the pooch again.

As the question in the commercial goes, "what's in your wallet"?

Grizzly Adams
March 20, 2008, 02:23 PM
I've been looking for an excuse to cancel my Citi card. Looks like as good as any!

Rugerlvr
April 3, 2008, 05:45 PM
This is why I have a Cabela's Visa.

The Sheriff
April 3, 2008, 06:45 PM
The only problem I have with the Cabela card is that the rewards are in Cabela points. Sorry, but I'll spend my cash The way I want to.
...If Cabela's gets with the program, and gives Cash rebates, instead of points, I'm, back on board.
...And, until then, there are better choices.
And, I'll use them.

Robert Hairless
April 5, 2008, 05:26 AM
I placed an order with CDNN yesterday, gave them my credit card information, and had no problems. Don't let CITI interfere with ordering from CDNN.

Old Fuff
April 5, 2008, 10:47 AM
[I placed an order with CDNN yesterday, gave them my credit card information, and had no problems. Don't let CITI interfere with ordering from CDNN.

As they explained in their lastest catalog - print and on-line - CDNN Sports has a new gun-friendly credit card processor. Therefore there is no reason not to buy from them and use any credit card you have that they will accept.

Meanwhile CTI has lost some business - both firearms industry business accounts such as CNNN, and individuals that cut up and sent in their credit cards. For them this has proved to be a serious tar-baby at a time when they are in serious trouble for other reasons. Our thanks to everyone that did sever any relationship with this anti-gun bank. Hopefully they and others have taken notice.

In addition I believe CDNN may also have a lawsuit pending. Always hit 'um where it hurts... :evil:

Walkalong
April 5, 2008, 11:36 AM
Excellent.

I was considering getting a Citi Bank card to replace the one I have when this came up. Offer sounded good, good rate if I did not pay it at the end of the month as I normally do, but you never know.

Anyway. I sent it in with an explanation as to why I would never do business with them. A drop in the bucket, but a drop none the less.

The Sheriff
April 5, 2008, 04:46 PM
I did something similar, but kept the Citi card just to use for purchasing Shell gasoline, because of the discount. When I paid the last statement, I put a little note in the envelope to inform them that I would now only use their card for Shell gasoline, and was shifting all other purchases over to another card.
...Last year I purchased over $144,000 worth of merchandise on a credit card.
...That business now goes elsewhere.

scrat
April 5, 2008, 05:46 PM
hahahaa i have a paypal credit card. Just to piss them off due to them not liking guns. i use it only for my gun stuff. So all you see is ranges, ammo, gun shops, anything with guns only.

hahahaha they are supporting the gun industry.

BackCountry
April 6, 2008, 03:43 PM
I don't do business with anti-gun companies. Won't have one of their credit cards. If every gun owner stopped doing business with them, they would get the point in lost revenue I am sure.

I like to buy my guns with cash anyway. That way my wife doesn't know for sure how much I spend on my habit. For parts and supplies I purchase online I use a pro gun credit card company.

The Sheriff
April 6, 2008, 03:51 PM
When I used to be married, and my wife asked how much a gun cost, I just told her they were about as much as her shoes.
...That usually shut her up.

BackCountry
April 6, 2008, 03:58 PM
Yea, my wife says I have a firearms addiction, she says she has a cloths addiction. They cancel each other out. She feels safe and likes to shoot my toys, I like her to look hot. They both come close to costing the same...

Robert Hairless
April 7, 2008, 04:33 PM
Meanwhile CTI has lost some business - both firearms industry business accounts such as CNNN, and individuals that cut up and sent in their credit cards. For them this has proved to be a serious tar-baby at a time when they are in serious trouble for other reasons.

Companies that make one bad decision usually make others, so it's no surprise that CTI is in trouble. Should CTI recover from the current set of bad decisions it will make others. What's needed for recovery in such situations is at least selective changes in the board of directors and a complete change of management.

CTI has put its own finger on the problem: its policies. For profit businesses exist to make profits, not dabble in its employees' ideas for social engineering. If they want mood music let them take violin lessons. When I invest in a business it's for money. If I want to invest in good feelings I'll contribute to a charity, a good museum, or an orchestra of my own choosing. I don't want any business to make such decisions with my money. They buy great art for their offices, I sell my stock and look for a company with offices furnished by the Salvation Army and staffed by people who make money for me. It's one of my little eccentricities.

Eightball
April 7, 2008, 05:51 PM
So, is there any hard data to back up the "Citibank is starting to eat it where it hurts" stuff that I"m starting to see crop up here?

Just placed an order with CDNN about 2 hours ago. And, for my part, if Citi ever sends me a credit card offer in the mail, I'll reply with a nice, neat, "HECK NO" letter explaining why they'll never have my business or the business of anyone in my family (if I can help it).

strat81
April 7, 2008, 07:04 PM
So, is there any hard data to back up the "Citibank is starting to eat it where it hurts" stuff that I"m starting to see crop up here?
Look at their stock chart.

jlangton
April 8, 2008, 09:49 AM
Hmm..I've got a pair of Citi cards here..one is paid off,and the other will be soon. Time to change.
JL

Old Fuff
April 8, 2008, 10:21 AM
Changing is fine, but be sure you tell them why... :evil:

jlangton
April 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
I certainly will...
JL

CAPTAIN MIKE
April 8, 2008, 11:53 AM
Thanks for the "Head's Up" on this. I'm having my law firm change its Merchant Account TODAY.

scrat
April 8, 2008, 12:19 PM
When I used to be married, and my wife asked how much a gun cost, I just told her they were about as much as her shoes.
...That usually shut her up.

i like this one. i have to remember this

The Sheriff
April 8, 2008, 12:45 PM
It had more of an impact than you can imagine.
...It was a sensitive issue between us because she could have sold shoes to Imelda Marcos! She probably had over a hundred pair of shoes, and she had a Cedar lined closet the size of a large bedroom to put all of her stuff into.
...But, she had a fit when I wanted a three car garage in the new house!
So, when she nagged about the guns, I brought up the shoes.
...I knew it had an impact because she went and called her mother.
:)

Old Fuff
April 8, 2008, 12:55 PM
The big banks got into trouble making loans to credit-questionable folks. That included CTI. However not to worry. Uncle Sam is using your tax money to make low interest loans to the banks so that they in turn can loan it to you (or whoever) at a higher interest rate. Obviously the Old Fuff made a serious mistake in his life when he didn't open his own bank. What could be better then loaning out money provided by the government to make more money for yourself? :scrutiny:

Fed auctions another $50 billion to cash-strapped banks in battle against credit squeeze

April 08, 2008 10:00 AM EDT

WASHINGTON - The Federal Reserve, still working to combat the effects of a severe credit squeeze, said Tuesday it had auctioned another $50 billion (euro31.86 billion) to cash-strapped banks. Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund warned that further actions are needed globally to prevent more wrenching problems.

The Fed auction marked the ninth in a series that began in December that so far have pumped $310 billion (euro197.53 billion) in short-term loans into the nation's banking system.

Meanwhile, the 185-nation IMF delivered its most detailed review yet of the global credit crisis that hit last August. It said Tuesday that governments must be prepared to do more to support the global financial system if conditions worsen.

"Markets remain under considerable strain" from a variety of forces such as weakened balance sheets from increased bad loans, the IMF said in a report prepared for meetings this week in Washington of the IMF and its sister lending institution, the World Bank.

The global credit crisis is expected to be a top agenda item at those discussions. The IMF report urged policymakers in the United States and other nations to consider what else needs to be done.

"The critical challenge now facing policymakers is to take immediate steps to mitigate the risks of an even more wrenching adjustment, including by preparing contingency and other remediation plans, while also addressing the seeds of the present turmoil," the IMF said.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and his colleagues hope that the increased resources being supplied in the Fed auctions will encourage banks to keep lending to consumers and businesses and alleviate the economic drag from a severe credit squeeze that began last August.

In a related move, the European Central Bank, which serves the 15 nations that use the euro as their common currency, announced Tuesday that it had auctioned $15 billion (euro9.56 billion) in short-term credit to European banks. It was the sixth auction conducted in tandem with the Fed as the two central banks continue to coordinate their efforts to battle the credit crisis.

Bernanke told Congress last week that it was possible that all the blows the economy has sustained from the credit crisis, a prolonged housing slump and now rising unemployment could push the country into a recession. But he said he still believed that the period of weakness would be short-lived and the economy would resume stronger growth in the second half of this year.

The Fed has been holding its auctions to supply direct loans to commercial banks every two weeks starting in December.

The auctions are only one of a number of emergency procedures the central bank has employed to battle the credit crisis, which claimed its biggest victim last month with the forced sale of Bear Stearns, the nation's fifth largest investment bank, to JP Morgan Chase & Co.

In addition to the auctions which supply loans for 28 days to commercial banks, the Fed announced last month that it was employing Depression-era provisions to allow investment banks to borrow directly from the Fed. Previously, only commercial banks had that privilege.

This week's auction, which was held on Monday with the results announced Tuesday, attracted 79 bids seeking a total of $91.6 billion (euro58.37 billion).
------------------------------------
http://my.earthlink.net/article/bus?guid=20080408/47faedc0_3421_1334520080408-1108765671

alan
April 8, 2008, 11:46 PM
The big investment banks and others couldn't be permitted to fail, as such would do significant damage to the economy and financial structure of the country. Of course, the people can always be dragged over the coals to bail out, the worthless hides of mortgage hustlers, bankers and credit card mafiosio. that is, you see, just business, possibly spelled BIDNESS. In any case, the sheeple are expected to foot the bill, with nary a question asked of their betters.

Will any lessons be learned, I tend to doubt it, because nobody is likely to end up in jail, and by jail, I do not make reference to Club Fed, rather I make reference to The Tank, where reside all manner of common criminals.

What was it that JPFO offered in the way of comment. BOHICA, which translates as follows. Bend Over, Here It Comes Again, as will likely be the case.

SpeedAKL
April 9, 2008, 08:00 PM
If I do end up writing/calling into Citi, I'll have to restrain myself from kindly reminding them of the tens of billions of dollars in shareholder money that they obliterated through making stupid bets on risky subprime mortgage-backed securities.

Wall Street is actually a hive of Democrat elitists, an uncle of mine worked for Goldman Sachs for years and them moved on to several botique research firms. He's told me all sorts of stories about the political end of things there.

alan
April 11, 2008, 01:51 PM
The ripples travel outward, one wonders as to how far?

Heard one radio news broadcast today, Frontier Airlines has filed for "reorganization under Chapter 11", will keep operating during bankruptcy proceedings.

Causes cited were escalation of fuel costs AND problems with the airlines credit card processor, guess who that it, FIRST DATA COPPORATION. The nature of credit card processor problems was unstated.

protolith
April 12, 2008, 06:31 PM
The nature of credit card processor problems was unstated.I heard about this. Their credit processor decided to change the fee percentage they were withholding. Frontier said they were getting things on track to remain solid and deal with the rising fuel costs, but this blow would have made the airline unable to afford to operate. CH11 allows them to pay their other accounts and seek a new credit card processor.

alan
April 13, 2008, 01:11 AM
While I have had no personal experience traveling via Frontier, airlines in general, suck, having turned into bonus machines for management/executive types, all the while screwing their employees and passengers.

Having said that, and looking back to the problems CDNN had with this First Data Corp., an offshoot of CitiGroup of sub prime infamy, I continue to wonder, at the risk of posing a dumb question, as to when if ever the feds, as in DOJ are going to prosecute these financial dirt bags. In short, how high must the pile of dead and wounded get to be before The Feds, (DOJ and Congress) take note and act? Anyone have any ideas, thoughts or guesses?

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