An extremely reckeless situational awareness exercise


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Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 01:13 AM
I'll start by saying that I visit this forum multiple times each day. I have learned so much valuable information here, and I truly believe that I am a more responsible gun owner because of it. However, I'm young and ignorant, so I've kept my mouth shut so far. I was involved in an incident last night that I thought may serve as a lesson to others, and I thought I'd post it. But first a little background info:

I was at my best friend's [BestFriend] girlfriend's apartment hagning out after work. One of BestFriend's other friends [Moron] came over with his girlfriend. I have never really been fond of Moron, as he is the type who will do anything for attention. He has been carrying concealed weapons (illegally) since he was 18. A few months ago he had an AD at his house, which sent a 45ACP round through 2 doors and into his water heater. If a gunfight breaks out on a TV show, he'll pull his weapon out, fully loaded, and pretend to shoot all the bad guys on the television. He is now 23, and is considered the loser of the group. After all, he hangs out with a bunch of 20 years olds. Also, Moron is a police dispatcher, so he thinks that:

1. He is an LEO, and
2. He is invincible


So anyway, the three of us (BestFriend, Moron and myself) sat around the kitchen table for a bit and talked about various aspects of gun ownership. After a while I got bored of Moron's incessant rambling and laid down on the floor to doze off for a minute. A minute later, I hear a chair hit the wall. I look up in time to see Moron pull his Kahr 9mm from his waistband and shove it into Bestfriend's temple. BTW, the gun is fully loaded with a round chambered. BestFriend, who has pretty good defensive reflexes, immediately pushes Moron's hands, with the gun, up toward the ceiling and plows him back into the kitchen counter. At this point, I had no clue what was going on, so I ran over and tried to get the gun out of Moron's hand. Bestfriend backed off, and I looked down and realized that not only is the gun pointed directly at me, but Moron's finger is on the trigger. I let go. After a second to cool down, I am told that they were talking about situational awareness, and Moron decided to see how good BestFriend's was. I immediately left the apartment and vowed never to step foot in the same room as Moron again.

I also sent him a rather nasty email telling him that he should immediately stop talking to the people he cares about so he doesn't get them killed.

BestFriend now has a bruise from where the gun hit him in the head, and scraped up knuckles from trying to wrestle it away from Moron. How the gun didn't discharge, I have no idea. With three people wrestling for it, things could have turned out very bad.

If I could do it over, I would have called the police and hopefully had his firearms rights revoked for life.

It is truly a shame that we have people like this on "our side".


Moral of the story: If somebody's firearm etiquette, or lack thereof, makes you nervous, please just avoid them. It's not worth getting killed over.

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siglite
January 8, 2008, 01:18 AM
:what:

Wow, just wow. That guy has a name in his future. It's "inmate."

Spyvie
January 8, 2008, 01:18 AM
You should still file a police report! If Moron works for a LE agency, his employers need to know about his actions, particularly the CC without a permit part. (and possibly the felony menacing part)

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 01:21 AM
He actually does have a CWP now. He just got it maybe 2 weeks ago.

Fn-P9
January 8, 2008, 01:32 AM
wild story. I guess not only was it a reckless situational awareness test on morons part but you ignored you own. Moron with gun = whaddaya expect. Sorry cant really harp on you being that I have been knowen to hang around stupid people sometimes myself. Thanks for sharing the story.

antsi
January 8, 2008, 01:41 AM
Somebody needs to drop a dime on this dude.

Call his PD employer and let them know they have a dangerous nut job working for them.

CombatArmsUSAF
January 8, 2008, 01:45 AM
Somebody needs to put a boot to this guys rear end. This guy truly sounds like a textbook moron. If that had been me, (Sorry got to keep it to the high road)

John Rogers
January 8, 2008, 01:47 AM
I had a neighbor once with a similar problem. He ended up dead, at the hands of his best friend. My 2 cents:

Thanks for sharing this frightening story. I agree with your last recommendation.

Avoiding "Moron" is only part of what you need to do. If "Bestfriend" is also "Moron"'s friend, some hard work is in order. It is easy to blame it all on "Moron" but you need to reconsider the judgment of your best friend and your own judgment if you don't want this to happen again.

Nasty emails are not a very good way to resolve this type of situation. In my experience, it's best done face to face or not at all.

Good luck. Please read the responses to your post very carefully. You will get some good advice but it may not all be easy to read.

Unisaw
January 8, 2008, 01:52 AM
You need new friends. And, you should go ahead and file a police report.

Leanwolf
January 8, 2008, 01:56 AM
You already know this Moron is a tragic accident on the way someplace to happen....

Why in the world are you hanging around with him????

L.W.

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 02:01 AM
I am aware that I did not handle things exactly the correct way. If I wasn't ready for constructive criticism I wouldn't post on this site. BestFriend really does not like hanging out with Moron either, but Moron's GF is good friends with BestFriend's GF. He wasn't invited by either of us, he came with his girlfriend. I have told my friend that I refuse to go anywhere with Moron from now on, and he completely understands, but I doubt that he will make the same decision. Don't get me wrong, he was furious, as was I, but for some reason he keeps Moron around.

The email I wrote wasn't meant to accomplish anything, I just had to let him know how PO'd I was. As soon as this ended I stormed out of the apartment before I could do something stupid (you know, aside from wrestling for a loaded weapon lol) and I never got to get my feelings out.

I told my friend later that I couldn't believe the gun didn't go off. He replied with "I know, I should be dead". He also said (I'm aware there are many things wrong with this, but I do see the logic in it as well) that he was actually trying to pull the trigger. He said as soon as he got the gun pointed in the air, he figured the best thing to do would be to empty the magazine. BTW, we were on the top floor, so there was nobody above us.

Spyvie
January 8, 2008, 02:04 AM
If this story is just as you have told it, I believe you have a moral responsibility to report this guy to the police.

mr hanky
January 8, 2008, 02:09 AM
Wow. I agree that a police report is in order. Even if Moron's gun rights are revoked I still forsee moron doing more stupid things with guns. You can't reprogram for stupid seeing as how he has been doing things like trying to kill friends and illegal CCW. Police Report and new friends at the minimum.

Dr. Peter Venkman
January 8, 2008, 02:13 AM
Report it NOW...it might be too late because of your inaction, however.

mekender
January 8, 2008, 02:18 AM
yeah thats a tough one... on one hand i say go for it, file a report... on the other hand, he might have some LEO friends that are as moronic as he is and they could make your life hell...

probably best to just not go around him any more

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 02:23 AM
How would I go about filing a report 2 days after this happened?

And please keep in mind that Moron is not, nor has he ever been, my friend. Somehow, he occasionally shows up at a party or get-together. I generally try to avoid him, or at the very least convince him to leave his gun in the truck (which he will do, if asked to). I don't feel that I should get a whole new group of friends because one idiot somehow gets himself invited to things that we do. I have made the decision to never go anywhere with him again. I will try to convince my friends to do the same. I think that is the best I can do.

bogie
January 8, 2008, 02:32 AM
1) He thinks he's a cop.

2) He thinks that makes him competent.

3) Suggest to his bosses that he get a nice rubber gun until he is given adequate training.

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 02:37 AM
1) He thinks he's a cop.

2) He thinks that makes him competent.

Not only that but his dad was in LE for 30+ years, so he feels he already knows everything there is to know. I think all I would have to do is tell his dad what he did and he would surely get the beating of his life.

siglite
January 8, 2008, 02:40 AM
Something that's not being taken into consideration with all the "file a report" posts, is that this guy's a dispatcher. LEOs can say 'till they're blue in the face that he'd be treated like anyone else, but depending on the department (and the size of the department) that's NOT a given. How big is the town? How big is the department? Are you talking 2 officers? 20? 200?

Honestly, in a smaller town, this might be something best handled "back door." Unless you're an LEO yourself, you don't have TRUE access to the circle so to speak. But you can get their attention. And this is how I would handle it.

Assuming a department smaller than 100 officers or so:
I'd call in sometime when this guy's not at the radio. I'd ask to speak to the shift commander. He'll probably not be available, but I'd leave a message, he'll probably call back. Once I got him on the phone, I'd tell him that I had an "incident" I wanted to talk about. But I would not elaborate on the phone. I'd then offer to meet him in person anywhere in town, any time. When I met him, I'd thank him for taking the time to talk to me. Then I'd lay the story out EXACTLY as it happened. No embellishment. No exaggeration. Just the facts. I would frame it as "I just want to give you guys a head's up."

If there have been prior incidents, and his perception is that this guy's a clown, he might ask to write out an official statement. This might be the incident that confirms all of their suspicions and opinions.

But most likely that won't happen. However, what WILL be accomplished, is that they'll be aware that one who is "sort of their own" might be a problem. And believe me, a lot of departments treat their dispatchers as "one of their own." In larger departments, I don't know how true that is. But in small and medium departments it's really the case in my experience. The officers will likely talk about it amongst each other. One of them likely ask him about what happened and get his side. It's unlikely they'll tell him who spoke up. None of this will happen on paper. But if you stick purely to the facts, chances are, you'll come off credible. As you well should. And if they ask him, they'll know if he's BSing or trying to downplay what was a terribly dangerous situation. LEOs are people persons. They know when they're being b$'d. And they'll talk. And they'll watch him. And if he lies to them he'll find that radio room is a chillier place.

If it's a much larger department, I have no idea how practical this is. Maybe someone can chime in with experience in/around a big dept.

gravis86
January 8, 2008, 02:48 AM
I think all I would have to do is tell his dad what he did and he would surely get the beating of his life.

THEN DO IT

Many times people do things just because they can get away with it. If his dad didn't know he was illegally CCing since he was 18, he should.

And if you truly believe that filing a report with the PD would hurt you more than it would him, I think telling his dad is his (and your) best bet.

Ragnar Danneskjold
January 8, 2008, 02:56 AM
If any friend, colleague, battle buddy, etc ever points a weapon at me, I don't know him any more. We're done.

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 02:57 AM
Thanks for the post, Siglite. I'm in Palm Beach County, but the PD he works for is very small. They have no more than 3 or 4 officers on duty at a time. I know that he goes out drinking with all the guys at his PD, so I doubt very much that speaking to somebody there would accomplish a whole lot. I have met a few of them before and it seems that they all just screw around together. As for talking to his dad, I would love to. I just don't want to come off as the random kid who kocked on his door to tattle-tale on his son. That makes me look like the crazy person. It would be different if I had actually met his dad and he knew that I was a credible person. I have heard stories about that man, and he doesn't seem like the type you want to irritate. You'd think his son would've turned out better...:rolleyes:

siglite
January 8, 2008, 03:02 AM
Well, if you don't feel you can get a shift commander or one of the officer's ear without repercussions, your only option is to just disassociate yourself from the guy. But you might find problems with your conscience. I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud on that. If they have 4 officers on duty at a time, that's probably a 20-ish officer department. It also means that it's a big enough jurisdiction that they have more to worry about than "some punk that tattled on their dispatcher."

I think if you get a sergeant or lieutenant's ear for ten minutes, you'll be taken seriously. Again, it's unlikely that anything will happen on paper. But you'll plant the bug. And that bug can go a long ways in a department that size.

John Rogers
January 8, 2008, 03:03 AM
It's great that you are interested in getting constructive criticism. Perhaps you should print out this thread for your friend to read.

BestFriend really does not like hanging out with Moron either, but Moron's GF is good friends with BestFriend's GF. He wasn't invited by either of us, he came with his girlfriend. I have told my friend that I refuse to go anywhere with Moron from now on, and he completely understands, but I doubt that he will make the same decision. Don't get me wrong, he was furious, as was I, but for some reason he keeps Moron around.

Are the girlfriends in question prepared to sacrifice your best friend for "Moron"'s sake? This is not about being furious or living up to the standards of anonymous people on the internet (however much you may value their advice), it is about staying alive. I hope you can find a way to help your friend understand the risk he is taking. It sounds like he doesn't fully understand it himself.

Only you can decide the "correct way" to handle the situation. We can only offer advice. It's easy to say "get new friends", but it is not so easy to turn your back on someone you care about. But don't assume that what you have already done or decided is the best you can do. Most likely, you're capable of much more.

eliphalet
January 8, 2008, 03:08 AM
Keep yourself where "moron" isn't no matter the cost now, friends g/f's or whatever, they will be short term costs. Like Leanwolf said this guy is a problem looking to happen and those costs could be life long. Be smart don't be part of it.

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 03:12 AM
Are the girlfriends in question prepared to sacrifice your best friend for "Moron"'s sake?
That is an extremely good point and I will be sure to bring that up to them as soon as possible.

I would also like to take this in a different direction briefly. If you were in the situation I was, and you were armed, how would you handle it? I was not paying attention to their conversation, and I had no idea why the gun was drawn. I think that had I been armed, there is a good possibility I would have used it to stop what I saw as an attack on my friend. Any and all input is welcome and encouraged.

chris in va
January 8, 2008, 03:13 AM
It's certainly easy enough to just 'walk away and never go back', but think about future individuals he'll come in contact with.

I'd do *something*, just not sure what. Pretty sticky situation. Get with your friend and see what he thinks about further action.

Jimmypop97
January 8, 2008, 03:15 AM
Go take out a warrant, He pointed a deadly weapon at both you and your buddy. Moron does not need a gun. Moron will get someone killed needlessly.

Edit to add:

I think all I would have to do is tell his dad what he did and he would surely get the beating of his life.

Do that too then. Maybe he will respect what his father thinks.

bogie
January 8, 2008, 03:20 AM
I'd go with siglite's approach - Informal, you don't want to file complaints, but you do want to let the guy's boss know what's up, because you're worried about stuff.

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 03:25 AM
Alright I'll try to get in touch with one of his supervisors tomorrow. I really wish I had called the cops then but by the time I hit the parking lot I was fuming. I just wanted to get away from there before I did something stupid.

gravis86
January 8, 2008, 03:28 AM
I would also like to take this in a different direction briefly. If you were in the situation I was, and you were armed, how would you handle it? I was not paying attention to their conversation, and I had no idea why the gun was drawn. I think that had I been armed, there is a good possibility I would have used it to stop what I saw as an attack on my friend. Any and all input is welcome and encouraged.

Seeing as how you knew Moron to be somewhat of a scumbag, and the other is your best friend, had you been I, (and I was armed) Moron would at the very least be missing a kneecap. More likely he would have a couple more holes to breathe through.

Tokugawa
January 8, 2008, 03:34 AM
Jiggle, this upset me so much I had to walk away from the computer for a while.

I have had friends ,and family, shot in the head- You ever read the anti-gun info about how "you are more likely to shoot a friend or family member than a robber"? Your acquaintance "moron" is that guy. Stay away.

Moron is a fool. Do not associate with fools. Morons girlfriend is a fool by association. Bestfriends girl is on the "A" list for fools incorporated. Bestfriend is on the "B" list. Find some new friends who care about their lives. And yours. He may be your best friend but he has fatally bad judgment!

Sorry about the extreme judgmental tone here- I am just sick to death of morons pointing guns at people- It has happened to me once too often.

PS- for the legal guys- is this an "assault with deadly weapon" ?

woodybrighton
January 8, 2008, 04:39 AM
talk to his boss or one of the coppers there be SO glad to know they have an armed idiot on the payroll.

Tyro
January 8, 2008, 05:11 AM
I think that had I been armed, there is a good possibility I would have used it to stop what I saw as an attack on my friend.

More likely, you'd have escalated the situation. There's no hero move in this situation. You guys are d*mn lucky that no one's dead or critically injured.

You need to report this idiot ASAP - just describe the facts, don't embellish, don't get into your opinion of MORON, just tell someone at his department what's happened.

mike101
January 8, 2008, 05:30 AM
I've never heard of anyone doing anything this stupid. Your friend is damned lucky that he isn't seriously dead. Was alcohol involved? I ask because I would think a person would have to be at least a little drunk do something this stupid. If I was your friend, I would not allow this jackass in my house any more. You should both stay away from this guy. If the girlfriends don't like it, well there are plenty of fish in the sea. What did the girlfriends have to say about all of this?

This idiot violated all 4 of the 4 Rules simultaneously. He should not be carrying a gun, period.

Since it's a small town, it might be better just to give one of his bosses a heads up, rather than file a formal complaint, if you think that will work. If you don't think that would make a lasting impression, then file charges. Since you don't live in the town where he works, I wouldn't sweat repurcussions from his work-buddies. I think they would take a dim view of what this jerk did anyway, being LEOs and all.

And definately tell his Dad. Do what ever you have to do, because it's just a matter of time before Moron kills someone, and we all read about him on the Brady Campaign Blog.

Travis Lee
January 8, 2008, 05:57 AM
Do what you can, even if you think nobody will listen.

Stay clear and try to talk sense into your friend.

This fool seems certain to kill somebody and nobody's "girlfriend of a girlfriend" is worth the drama which will ensue.

sacp81170a
January 8, 2008, 06:56 AM
PS- for the legal guys- is this an "assault with deadly weapon" ?

In my jurisdiction it's aggravated assault, a felony. This guy needs to go down, hard. If your friend is willing to back you up and testify, you should report him to whichever department has primary jurisdiction where the offense occurred. If it's the PD where he works, then the County Sheriff may be a good place to start.

Erebus
January 8, 2008, 07:37 AM
If I were BestFriend I would tell BestFriend's GF that Moron is no longer welcome in BestFriend's presence or home anymore. No negotiation, no if's, and's or but's about it. He almost killed me and I won't take ANY chance of that happening again. Moron's GF is welcome but if Moron has to come than that's too bad Moron's GF will have to stay away.

I would also file a police report and file for an RO. I would make damn sure that loose cannon stayed the heck away from me. He put a loaded gun to someone's head. That's not poor or even dangerous behavior, that's down right criminal and should be.

Deamon
January 8, 2008, 07:49 AM
Wow, just wow. Definetly call the cops, this guy needs to realise that there are consquences to being a dumb@$$. Something like this I would think could be grounds for a restraining order as well.

BobbyQuickdraw
January 8, 2008, 08:27 AM
File a complaint x 10.

That guy is a real big... ahem, just file the complaint.

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 10:09 AM
I'm pretty sure that Moron was drinking a beer when this happened. We had all been there no more than 25 minutes though so unless he was drinking beforehand, that was most likely his only drink. The girlfriends were both drinking, but my friend and I were not, as we both had to wake up early the next day.

Oh and BestFriend's girlfriend was royally pissed (it was her apartment). She blamed the whole thing on BestFriend, even though he was only an unwilling participant, and sent him home. The girlfriends just seem to think that Moron is some big goofy guy who just needs to grow up (which is undoubtably true). Any time he screws up, they'll blame it on us (well, mostly my friend, because I make it known that I don't like moron) for not being the better man and letting it go.

AndyC
January 8, 2008, 10:35 AM
Guns are not toys and what you went through was not a game, as much as Moron might believe it was. He's reckless, irresponsible and incompetent - and needs to lose his firearm.

Commander Guineapig
January 8, 2008, 10:39 AM
sounds to me like this guy is eventually going to shoot or kill someone unintentionally at some point if he is not stopped.
If you make an effort to stop him (police report, tell his dad, w/e) one of two things will happen:
a) he will grow up and stop being a moron
b) he will eventually get into trouble with his firearm and shoot and/or kill someone.
If you do your part, either way he goes your conscience is clear and YOU did the right thing.
If he kills someone in the future (especially someone you know) and you did nothing to stop this retard it will be a horrible burden on your mind, and that's something none of us here would wish on you.
GP

Big Boomer
January 8, 2008, 10:46 AM
:eek:

MakAttak
January 8, 2008, 10:49 AM
I would investigate and try to find out who his father is and then try to speak with him in private (not at his home, but at a diner or something). I'd suggest not phrasing your conversation as "Your son is a moron!" but rather tell him you are concerned that his son is headed towards an accident.

Still he may not listen, but it is a better chance if you put in a way that you are concerned...

Linda
January 8, 2008, 11:28 AM
[Oh and BestFriend's girlfriend was royally pissed (it was her apartment). She blamed the whole thing on BestFriend, even though he was only an unwilling participant, and sent him home.

Well problem solved! Best friend needs to find a new girlfriend now, and all these Morans and Moranettes will be out of his life forever.

File a police report TODAY! As an ADULT, you have a responsibilty to society to do so. Next call....to Morans Dad.

RKBABob
January 8, 2008, 11:34 AM
My advice:

1. Moron is a moron. Stay the heck awway from Moron!

2. Since BestFriend's girlfriend blames him, its obvious that she cares more about her female companion's feelings, and about keeping the click together, than she does about BestFriend. Help BestFriend find another girl!

3. If this is what Moron does with his friends, what will he do when a stranger looks at him the wrong way? File a police report!

4. Don't worry abour reprecussions. Most likely, the cops he works with will marvel at his incredible stupidity. Just because he sees them outside of work, does not mean they're really tight. They may already suspect he's a little crazy, but workplace ettiquete dictates that they not shun him when the shift ends.

5. If BestFriend causes you to continue to see Moron, then maybe its time to ditch BestFriend. Unless, of course, you like having a gun pointed at you because BestFriend's girlfriend says its OK and BestFriend can't possibly speak up to her.

6. The members of THR are in no way "gun shy." If having a firearm pointed at you in anger is OK, then we wouldn't act shocked. We are shocked. This is serious business. Anyone who downplays an armed assault on your person is not your friend. Think about changing the circles you hang out in.

7. They say that apples don't fall far from the tree... this may be true of Moron and Moron'sDad. If you are going to take it up with his father, you better be really sure he isn't just like Moron. Resolve the situation through official channels.

slow944
January 8, 2008, 12:22 PM
Don't Pass Go, Don't Collect $200. FILE A REPORT TODAY, YOU MAY SAVE SOMEONE'S LIFE TODAY.

mekender
January 8, 2008, 01:50 PM
i would actually contact the FDLE and ask them... tell them that you were the victim of an assault committed by a non-officer employee of a small PD and that you fear that any official statements to local authorities would result in retribution...

the FDLE will get internal affairs involved and things will handled pretty quickly... if it gets too out of hand, contact your local news stations and get them to help... they would love to run a story about a city employee that got violent and then was protected by his own department

bluestarlizzard
January 8, 2008, 02:04 PM
second vote for bestfriend to ditch girlfriend. if she's willing to let moron around with loaded guns, she is obviously not the brightest crayon in the box.
also, i think leaveing immediatly was a good idea. temper and dealing with that crappy situation do not mix. get in contact with those in charge of moron at work. his behavior is not acceptable.
moron is either gonna get killed or gonna kill someone.

General Geoff
January 8, 2008, 02:13 PM
Bad situation all around, and I would by all means stay the hell away from the guy and his girlfriend. If that means staying away from said girlfriend's friend, and consequently that friend's boyfriend (your best friend), so be it.

Lumpy71
January 8, 2008, 03:38 PM
If you are concerned with going to the department he works for then go the the County Sheriff of the State Police. You must definately get this reported before this person kills someone. Remember when, not if but when, something does happen you will feel responsible because you did not do all you could to stop this type of irresponsible behavior.

revjen45
January 8, 2008, 05:05 PM
He does hand to hand exercises with a loaded gun? That would seem to qualify as depraved indifference, and he is too stupid to work for a police agency in any capacity.

Cosmoline
January 8, 2008, 05:28 PM
I'd report him. Esp. if he has a permit now. Folks like this give the rest of us a bad rap. There's no excuse for acting the way he did, and it's going to end in tragedy.

mike101
January 8, 2008, 05:42 PM
Ya know, on second thought, I was too soft on the guy. Just go ahead and file the report first. Best to have it all down on paper.

mljdeckard
January 8, 2008, 05:51 PM
Sounds like assualt with a deadly to me. Two witnesses. Needs to at least lose his job, and hopefully do a little time and permanently lose his RKBA.

arthurcw
January 8, 2008, 07:20 PM
Oh and BestFriend's girlfriend was royally pissed (it was her apartment). She blamed the whole thing on BestFriend, even though he was only an unwilling participant, and sent him home. The girlfriends just seem to think that Moron is some big goofy guy who just needs to grow up (which is undoubtably true). Any time he screws up, they'll blame it on us (well, mostly my friend, because I make it known that I don't like moron) for not being the better man and letting it go.

Open letter to BestFriend,

Young man, I was 20 once too. I know that you’re girlfriend means a lot to you right now. But if a person drew a gun on you, for whatever reason, and your Sweet Lass is not fully in your corner in a fighting mad rage ready to do harm to anyone who shoved a weapon in her Beloved’s face; please thank her for her company, wish her the best, and move on.

This is one of those tests in life that you should be thankful for. She failed it and you are much the better for seeing the grade she made. It could have been 10 years from now when you have 2 kids and she simply didn’t want to hang around when times got lean.

That little voice you hear deep down in your soul? The one that is nagging you through all the hormones, feelings of intimacy, and thoughts of romance? Yes, that one. The one that all the other voices are telling to shut up and be quite. The one that is saying, “HEY! There is something not right here.” Listen to that one. It’s the one that tells brave men when to leap onto grenades and when to do their best impressions of a particularly quite species of tree. It’s telling you something you need to hear.

You know now, beyond any showdown of a doubt, she will not stand by you when the chips are down. Cut your losses and run. You may be lonely for a while, but you will be thankful later.

Good luck to you sir and God bless.

Sincerely,
ArthurCW

I really hate to give advice like this. Your friend can do what he wants. I don’t know the full situation he’s in. But if there are no other entanglements, He should see this as a MAJOR sign that she’s not Miss Right.

Ladies? Your thoughts?

Jaenak
January 8, 2008, 07:33 PM
Jiggle, I'd recomend you call the police anyways even if it is days after the incident. He may not get charged (I don't know) but your best friend and possibly the girlfriends (if they were there) would be witnesses and the whole thing would get recorded and processed and would go on moron's record. He might be charged anyways. Just because the cops didn't catch him in the act and just because there isn't fresh bruises to inspect doesn't mean he won't get in trouble. Besides that, maybe if he gets in REALLY big trouble like that, maybe he'll get the hint and smarten up a little. Call the police.

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 08:06 PM
I have just spoken to my friend and told him that I will be filing a police report. He said he understands, and that while he's not exactly in favor of it, he knows it's the right thing to do. I'll call the sheriff's non-emergency line to find out exactly what I need to do.

And he is fully aware that he needs to ditch his girlfriend. At this point, he is kinda just using her to pass time. I strongly doubt that they will still be together a month from now.

kurtmax
January 8, 2008, 08:08 PM
At this point, he is kinda just using her to pass time.

Sounds like a nice friend:rolleyes:

File a report. Do it. Do it now! Your 'friends' might not be willing to talk, but if this does go to court they will get subpoenas and probably won't be willing to lie :P

I don't think you understand how dangerous this guy is. As said earlier, we aren't gun shy around here. When we get shocked over something firearms related it's a pretty big deal ;)

Jiggle
January 8, 2008, 11:48 PM
Sounds like a nice friend
Eh, it's a complicated situation and I don't feel like getting into it.

File a report. Do it. Do it now! Your 'friends' might not be willing to talk, but if this does go to court they will get subpoenas and probably won't be willing to lie :P

I don't think you understand how dangerous this guy is. As said earlier, we aren't gun shy around here. When we get shocked over something firearms related it's a pretty big deal

The whole reason I started this thread was because I do understand how dangerous he is. And I just got back from the police station. They filed a report, but said it would only be filed as a "suspicious incident" because the "victim" wasn't there to confirm my story. They said that Moron (okay, they didn't actually call him Moron, but you know they were thinking it) would probably not even be notified of this unless something comes up in the future to which this is relevant.

I spoke to my friend about helping me with the report, but he said he doesn't want to put Moron through all the legal and financial troubles that would certainly ensue. I can understand that, because after you've known somebody for as long as they've known each other it would be hard to do that to them. He said that he'd rather try to get him to go to some kind of counseling. Not a firearms safety course, as he has been to a few and knows the rules, he just doesn't follow them. He wants to get him to go to somebody who can calm him down and perhaps convince him that he is not immortal, and he will go to jail for a long time if he keeps up this behavior.

siglite
January 9, 2008, 12:15 AM
They filed a report, but said it would only be filed as a "suspicious incident" because the "victim" wasn't there to confirm my story. They said that Moron (okay, they didn't actually call him Moron, but you know they were thinking it) would probably not even be notified of this unless something comes up in the future to which this is relevant.

I think exactly what I predicted is what will happen here. They're aware. And they're GOING to talk about this amongst themselves. GuaranTEED.

Good job. I think you did the right thing.

Deamon
January 9, 2008, 12:18 AM
It was filed as a "suspicious incident" as the "vicitm" wasn't there? Didn't you have the gun pointed at you as well?

jakemccoy
January 9, 2008, 12:30 AM
Jiggle,

"Moron" and all the other uncaptured felons are ruining it for all of us responsible gun owners.

-Jake

Brian Dale
January 9, 2008, 12:32 AM
Good job on giving his Department a heads-up.

You've been offered a lot of wisdom in response to what you've posted. It's important, but it was written well the first time and I won't repeat it.

There's just this: Do not ever remain in a room with Moron again. Don't go where he is, and if he arrives where you are, then leave. This will be awkward, it will probably get you funny looks and it will make you feel like a dork. That's OK; the "sticks-and-stones" metaphor fits.

Don't be there when whatever is going to happen with him and a gun eventually happens.

MikeS63301
January 9, 2008, 12:56 AM
Don't assume that the officers he works with and hams around with would blow this off as nothing. If they know you're serious and telling it like it happened they may come down on him pretty hard personally. And they should. Besides that, the right thing to do is let the authorities know what he did. He's the guy who gives the rest of us with CWP a bad name.

I'm glad you and your buddy didn't get hurt.

Jiggle
January 9, 2008, 12:57 AM
It was filed as a "suspicious incident" as the "vicitm" wasn't there? Didn't you have the gun pointed at you as well?
You're right, it was. I forgot to mention that to the officer. The difference was that when the gun was pointed at me, it was because he was holding it behind his back so my friend couldn't grab it. He wasn't intentionally pointing it at me. Obviously that doesn't matter much when the trigger is pulled and I am dead, but it just slipped my mind when I was talking to them.

There's just this: Do not ever remain in a room with Moron again. Don't go where he is, and if he arrives where you are, then leave.
I have already made that decision and I will stick by it. Occasionally I'll be at a party and he'll show up. In the future if that happens I'll leave, or if I've been drinking and my DD doesn't want to leave I'll call a cab.

shouldifail
January 9, 2008, 12:58 AM
good advice from all, and good on ya for filing the report.
just a thought....it seems that with moron working for the police, he will become aware that there has been a report filed regarding him. sooner than later i would think.
be prepared, should you happen to be in the same place as moron again, that he may (ie: probably will) confront you about the complaint you filed.
does moron know where you live? work?...he's already established that he is DANGEROUS.. please watch your 6

Yooper
January 9, 2008, 01:01 AM
I only have one question. Are any of these friends worth dying for?

Jiggle
January 9, 2008, 01:08 AM
I also need to point out that the PD I went to wasn't the one that he works for. I was told by the local SO that I have to go to the PD whose district this occured in.

I got the feeling that the officer was not in favor of civilian CCW. I told her that Moron was ALWAYS packing. We could be out in the woods shooting with the whole truck loaded with guns and he would still have two more hidden on him. She responded with "This is South Florida. Everybody's packing."

I told her that I'm not really interested in getting Moron in trouble, I'm just afraid that if somebody doesn't do something he is going to end up killing someone. I told her that he makes all gun owners look bad. She said "So I guess you own guns?" I answered "Yeah, a few." She said "Do you carry concealed?" "No, ma'am. I'm only 20." She just said "Good." Even if she doesn't like the fact that I own guns, I still think she was impressed that I knew the laws and obeyed them.

Rshooter
January 9, 2008, 01:15 AM
I have never really been fond of Moron, as he is the type who will do anything for attention. He has been carrying concealed weapons (illegally) since he was 18.

If one more old dog can give advice. Based on hard won experience, if it does not feel right; it is not right. Add any other catalyst such as booze or opposite sex and it will really go wrong. Get out before it gets bad especially when weapons or hand to hand combat personnel are involved.

Jiggle
January 9, 2008, 01:28 AM
be prepared, should you happen to be in the same place as moron again, that he may (ie: probably will) confront you about the complaint you filed.
does moron know where you live? work?...he's already established that he is DANGEROUS.. please watch your 6
I know how contradictory this will sound, but I really feel that he is harmless. He is not the type who will confront anybody about anything. The most he would do is question my sexual orientation and leave it at that. The reason he's dangerous is because he likes to show off. I firmly believe that there is a high likelyhood of him having an accident and killing an innocent, but if he were ever in a true SD situation he would freeze.

One thing I didn't mention is that Moron is probably 6' and 250 pounds. BestFriend is 5'10" and 160 pounds. I have seen them wrestle many times and every time Moron loses horribly. He is nothing more than a big baby who needs guns to make him feel like a man. I am certainly not worried about him coming after me. However, I will still not confront him, as I think there's a good chance that he would draw his weapon and call self defense.

Brian Dale
January 9, 2008, 01:37 AM
I will still not confront him...You win. No need to confront; just fade from the circle of people he knows. :)

mike101
January 9, 2008, 04:50 AM
"I know how contradictory this will sound, but I really feel that he is harmless"

Jiggle, harmless people don't hold guns to other people's heads. Even if you don't think he would intentionally shoot someone, there's a real good chance it could happen by accident.

You did the right thing. You're looking out for everyone else. Good on ya.

rrruuunnn
January 9, 2008, 05:33 AM
while i agree that that was a very dangerous and stupid situation, i think it's quite halarious. i know who to call for a wild night on the town. :D

bluestarlizzard
January 9, 2008, 04:03 PM
jiggle, i wouldn't say that moren is harmless.
he sounds like a coward to me and cowards can be very dangourous. he's the type to knife you in the back, literially or figurtively.
don't trust him and don't let up your guard around him.
on the plus side, he sounds kinda dumb, so you have brains to your advantage.

Baba Louie
January 9, 2008, 04:13 PM
I really feel that he is harmlessA loaded gun in the hand, a trigger on the finger and a slip/scare/sudden noise might very easily turn harmless into "sorry"... and that might be one surprised 5 lb. twitch of a finger too late... ya know?

woodybrighton
January 9, 2008, 04:25 PM
he's not harmless he is a dangerous idiot.
and a poster boy for the Brady campaign:uhoh:
cops probably met a few of his friends in "professional situations " Idiots should be allowed all the guns they want as long as a care worker holds the rounds:mad:

sacp81170a
January 9, 2008, 04:41 PM
:banghead:after you've known somebody for as long as they've known each other it would be hard to do that to them

Jeeze, it's not like you're asking BestFriend to put a gun to somebody's head or anything, right?

BestFriend sounds like a moron. :banghead:

Creature
January 9, 2008, 04:45 PM
How is someone who holds a loaded gun to a person's head...and then points same loaded gun at you with his finger on the trigger...HARMLESS?

Jiggle
January 9, 2008, 05:41 PM
When I said he is harmless, I meant that he is not the kind of person who will come and track me down to get back at me. He is not a violent person, and his temper is almost nonexistant. He is just stupid. And remember, he is a police dispatcher. It doesn't matter if he knows where I live or not, he could find all that out in a matter of minutes.

But if he's gonna come and get me, he's gonna come and get me. There's nothing I can do other than stay aware, which I do anyway.

Thanks for your help guys.

romma
January 9, 2008, 06:36 PM
Stay away from Moron, or might end up with the same alias yourself by association if he does another stupid thing... Which he undoubtedly will.

Snapping Twig
January 9, 2008, 08:19 PM
Assuming this happened exactly as you described, this child in an adult body needs a time-out.

Turn him in and excommunicate yourself from him.

You will undoubtably save someone else down the road by taking this action.

This type of behavior is a cry for help and will not improve over time w/o intervention. Even with intervention it may not improve, but at least he'll be stripped of his CCW which he richly deserves.

Jiggle
January 10, 2008, 12:42 AM
Assuming this happened exactly as you described, this child in an adult body needs a time-out.

Turn him in and excommunicate yourself from him.

You will undoubtably save someone else down the road by taking this action.

This type of behavior is a cry for help and will not improve over time w/o intervention. Even with intervention it may not improve, but at least he'll be stripped of his CCW which he richly deserves.

I am working with my friend to find the best way to deal with this. He completely understands that somethings needs to be done, he's still just a little reluctant to do it. We're thinking about telling Moron that he has to go to some kind of counseling or therapy, or BestFriend will go to the police and file a report of his own, which will end with Moron being brought up on charges. The problem is that Moron doesn't really have the money to pay for a therapist. Do you guys have any ideas for an alternative?

And I can't stress it enough. I will never hang out with Moron again. His girlfriend's birthday is in a couple weeks. I really want to go, as she is my friend, but I have already told them I am not attending.

bluestarlizzard
January 10, 2008, 12:51 AM
tell moren to look into social services offered in his area. thats what there there for, after all. a local free clinic may have answers as well.

MikeS63301
January 10, 2008, 01:32 AM
We're thinking about telling Moron that he has to go to some kind of counseling or therapy, or BestFriend will go to the police and file a report of his own, which will end with Moron being brought up on charges. The problem is that Moron doesn't really have the money to pay for a therapist. Do you guys have any ideas for an alternative?

I can't freakin' believe you just asked us that!!! This guy needs to be locked up for a little while so he can think about what he's doing. That's the best therapy for him. It doesn't matter that he's a big baby or whatever else you've stated in this thread. He broke the law BIG TIME by what he did. And beyond that, he's going to kill someone if he keeps going. Or he's going to get himself killed.

I my not so humble opinion, you just walking away from this is the wrong thing to do. If you walk away and he kills someone or gets himself killed, you're never going to forgive yourself. It'll aways be on your mind. Man uup and do what's right.

Jiggle
January 10, 2008, 02:16 AM
Man uup and do what's right.
I've done what's right. Now it's up to my friend to do what's right. You act as if I'm just sitting around laughing about the situation. I went to the police station last night after a difficult day at work (I found out that a friend of mine killed himself the day before) and effectively tried to put somebody I have known for a few years in jail. Please don't act like I've done nothing.

My friend doesn't want to turn his friend in if it can be avoided, and he wants to come up with some kind of compromise. I figure something (counseling of some sort) is better than nothing, no?

highorder
January 10, 2008, 02:23 AM
this thread makes my head hurt.

your "friend" should be furious that some moron almost punched his ticket for him. He needs to grow a pair and get on board with solving this problem or he makes himself part of it.

walk away from these people and find new people to spend time with. No one you have described in this thread is your friend.


EDIT:

My friend doesn't want to turn his friend in if it can be avoided, and he wants to come up with some kind of compromise. I figure something (counseling of some sort) is better than nothing, no?

Why do you even care? You cant fix stupid.

MikeS63301
January 10, 2008, 02:28 AM
You act as if I'm just sitting around laughing about the situation.

errrrrrrr... no. It was more of a chuckle of disbelief.

Good luck with it.

logical
January 10, 2008, 02:36 AM
Who goes to visit friends and lays down on the kitchen floor to take a cat nap?

jakemccoy
January 10, 2008, 02:47 AM
shock
denial
anger
acceptance
forgiveness

Which stage are you?

siglite
January 10, 2008, 04:08 AM
I think you guys should lighten up on Jiggle a bit. First off, a bunch of you have posted without reading the entire thread. If you had, you'd have seen his periodic updates and responses interspersed throughout it.

He's done the right thing. He's doing the right thing. And he's doing the smart thing by remaining diplomatic with his friend. We all agree that BestFriend needs to get away from Moron, too. We all understand that. Jiggle understands that. The problem is that BestFriend needs to SEE this. And, without having a clue about the social dynamics going on there, it looks to ME like Jiggle's doing what he can to make BestFriend see things our way. He can lead the horse to water....

As far as Jiggle's responsibilities go, he's already sacrificed to do the Right Thing. You can't do what he did (file a report) without making waves amongst friends. Especially when they may or may not be friends who have a clue about guns, and more importantly gun safety. I think Jiggle's done what's right here. And I think he's continuing to do it. And I think it's probably WISE of Jiggle to have some tact in dealing with BestFriend. A screeching madman roaring about the insanity and stupidity of it all (regardless of the fact that Moron actually WAS insane and stupid) just comes across as a screeching madman.

Jiggle, I'd expect more "DUDE, DO THE RIGHT THING FILE A POLICE REPORT" posts. Not everyone reads the entire thread before responding.

Jiggle
January 10, 2008, 04:33 AM
Once again, thanks Siglite. I was starting to feel a little overwhelmed by the fact that I did what everybody said I should do, and then people make it seem like I'm the bad guy. I am pressuring my friend into filing a report, but if doesn't want to then I can't make him.

XDSC
January 10, 2008, 04:44 AM
You're in a tough situation. Sig gave you excellent advice and you followed it. I bet Moron's Dad was given an update too. Don't beat yourself up. With the exception of Moron, you want to spend time with friends and I can understand your frustration. Do what you can to keep yourself safe. Hopefully Bestfriend will get a clue and move on to someone who actually cares about him. Good luck.

John Rogers
January 10, 2008, 05:05 AM
I agree with Siglite's assessment. Being ready to hear the full range of comments doesn't mean you have to agree with all of them. I hope you will stick around and participate in some of the other discussions here on the High Road.

My condolences on the loss of your friend.

Dr. Peter Venkman
January 10, 2008, 05:59 AM
Hopefully your friend follows suit. He had a loaded gun pushed into his head. I mean honestly, what else is it going to take for him to do it?

sacp81170a
January 10, 2008, 08:03 AM
To paraphrase John Farnam, "Don't go to stupid places and don't hang out with stupid people." I've found that I've gotten very selective as to who and where I am going to spend my time. I like friends and parties as much as the next person, but I choose my friends based on their respectfulness and behavior towards me and others.

It narrows my circle of true friends, but one of life's lessons is learning that everyone who claims you as a friend doesn't deserve reciprocation. If BestFriend has so little self esteem and respect for himself and you that someone committed such an outrage on his person and he responds by blowing it off, perhaps you need to move on, knowing that you've done your best.

Ask yourself these questions:

1. If you hadn't been there and the same thing happened, would Moron be in trouble?

2. If you were a stranger happening upon the situation (one person with a gun to another's head) would you have prepared yourself to use deadly force to stop it?

3. Is Moron's circle of "friends" enabling his behavior?

Good on you for refusing to be an enabler.

Creature
January 10, 2008, 10:02 AM
When I said he is harmless, I meant that he is not the kind of person who will come and track me down to get back at me. He is not a violent person, and his temper is almost nonexistant. He is just stupid.

Stupid is just as, if not more, dangerous than a violent person. And he is both.

Make that report....for the good of the public, for Pete's sake.

Jiggle
January 10, 2008, 11:04 AM
Jiggle, I'd expect more "DUDE, DO THE RIGHT THING FILE A POLICE REPORT" posts. Not everyone reads the entire thread before responding.
Make that report....for the good of the public, for Pete's sake.
You called that one, Siglite.

highorder
January 10, 2008, 11:38 AM
To paraphrase John Farnam, "Don't go to stupid places and don't hang out with stupid people." I've found that I've gotten very selective as to who and where I am going to spend my time. I like friends and parties as much as the next person, but I choose my friends based on their respectfulness and behavior towards me and others.
It narrows my circle of true friends, but one of life's lessons is learning that everyone who claims you as a friend doesn't deserve reciprocation. If BestFriend has so little self esteem and respect for himself and you that someone committed such an outrage on his person and he responds by blowing it off, perhaps you need to move on, knowing that you've done your best.

Ask yourself these questions:

1. If you hadn't been there and the same thing happened, would Moron be in trouble?

2. If you were a stranger happening upon the situation (one person with a gun to another's head) would you have prepared yourself to use deadly force to stop it?

3. Is Moron's circle of "friends" enabling his behavior?

Good on you for refusing to be an enabler.

Thats how I see the world as well. I have 5 friends, but I can and had have trusted them with my life. I have a thousand associates, coworkers, and acquaintances. But don't make the mistake of calling them friends.

The Annoyed Man
January 10, 2008, 12:23 PM
Jiggle, I think you're handling this with a lot of maturity. My only advice is, don't get tired of it and finally let go of dealing with it. Be tenacious until something gets done, for two reasons:

1. So Moron gets the help he needs; and

2. So Moron is no longer a threat to those around him.

If that means a police report, an arrest, a psychiatric evaluation, whatever. Whatever it takes to make Moron wake up and smell the coffee. Sometimes, people have to find themselves in water so deep that they KNOW they will drown if they don't get help. Maybe a few weeks in the pokey is that deep water. Maybe not. Whatever any of us tells you is based on what we, as only distantly involved observers on the Internet, are able to respond to from what you tell us. This is a hard place for a young man to be in, to know that a very difficult decision that must be made and cannot be avoided rests on your shoulders alone.

Be strong. And be encouraged that you seem to be a young man of integrity, who is willing to do the hard thing. Being feckless is easy. Being right is often hard. Always choose the right over the easy.

Please let us know how it all turns out.

Deanimator
January 10, 2008, 01:24 PM
To paraphrase John Farnam, "Don't go to stupid places and don't hang out with stupid people."
Truer words were never spoken. They've gotten me to the age of 50.

Most of the people I see get into serious trouble, get there with help.

You can't pick your relatives, but you'd BETTER pick your friends, and CAREFULLY.

pharmer
January 11, 2008, 06:11 PM
"You can't pick your relatives, but you'd BETTER pick your friends, and CAREFULLY".
25 years ago I had 2 "best" friends. One night they decided to drink 2 bottles of Black Velvet. #1 kills #2 with 8mm Mauser after working the action to eject the "only" cartridge in it. I have better friends today. Joe

dariks
January 12, 2008, 04:20 AM
Jiggle,
For what it matter, I think you have done and are doing all that you can reasonably be expected to do. Good for you!

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