45 Long colt VS 45 acp VS 357 magnum


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Constantine-p89
January 8, 2008, 09:02 AM
I might take the Llama back Saturday after I go shooting if I am dissapointed with it(jams). I found when I was at the gun shop: single action 357 magnum(revolvers), 45 long colt(two different ones)single action revolver. What is your opinion on the calibers? Which one would you pick and why?

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Tom C.
January 8, 2008, 09:09 AM
Both .357 and .45 Colt are fun in single action revos. What do you anticipate doing with it? If you think you might get into CAS, than consider .357. Lower recoil, cheaper ammo, lower costs of operation. If you just want to blow big holes in targets, .45 Colt is fun, but it is more expensive to operate. Where .45 Colt really comes into its own is when the gun is strong enough for +P type loads, like the Ruger Blackhawk or First Gen Vaquero. Not something you do every time, but fun once in a while.

My single actions are all NMBHs. I don't have much faith in SAA clones.

Constantine-p89
January 8, 2008, 09:48 AM
Thanks tom, to tell you the truth I was VERY interested in the 45colt cartrige revolvers. I wonder how much recoil(more is better)does the 45 long colt cartrige have? What would be close in comparison?

usp_fan
January 8, 2008, 10:29 AM
.45 Colt is one of my favorite cartridges. Standard .45 Colt loads are fairly tame in recoil but due to caliber and weight, they get a bit of work done when they connect. If you are shooting a Ruger Single Action, you can shoot loads from Buffalo Bore or Corbon which equal or surpass .44 mag levels of power. The Ruger Revolvers are remarkably strong.

Growing up, all my cousins had .357 Ruger Blackhawks. I always wanted one untill I shot my first .45 Colt. With the .45, you can shoot mild to wild. The only downside is the cost of ammunition. If you reload, the .45 is very economical to shoot. If you don't, the .357 may be easier on your wallet.

Constantine-p89
January 8, 2008, 10:34 AM
About how much does it cost you for the cheapest 45 long colt or whatever they have?

MiddleAgedKen
January 8, 2008, 10:35 AM
I am quite fond of .45LC. Very controllable in a single-action army revolver, and in a Winchester 94 more fun than a human ought to be allowed to have. :)

Big Boomer
January 8, 2008, 10:39 AM
A 45 Colt (standard loads) recoil is almost nil in a big single action revolver, it's just like shooting the 45 acp with my conversion cylinder.

Now if you take those colts up to +p levels in the blackhawks (I do frequently) it recoils like a 44 Magnum and after about 20 rounds or so starts getting quite painful, but for a cylinder full of full house while you are out or for hunting it's quite fun.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/Drizzt_11/Smiles/gun.gif

Biker
January 8, 2008, 10:45 AM
I carry a Taurus 450 (.45LC) on my left ankle all day. It's a 5 shot 2" DA snubbie weighing in at about 17 ounces unloaded. It's magna ported from the factory and I find the recoil to be quite manageable.

Biker

weisse52
January 8, 2008, 11:07 AM
45 LC for fun, 357 for cost.
I agree the 45 LC in a SA is very easy recoil. With the proper loads it is a wicked round for SD or hunting. Only drawback is unless you handload it is expensive to shoot relative to the 357.
With the 357 you have the option of shooting 38 special for "cheap" shooting.
If I had the choice, I would pick both.

Constantine-p89
January 8, 2008, 11:11 AM
I dont have the money for both, home defence and plinking at the range although my range days consist of 45acp 40 and 38spl. So how much does a box of 45 long colt cost?

slow944
January 8, 2008, 11:43 AM
I reload 45LC for my 454 Casull and I find I can reload for about .40 cents a round. Great round to plink or hunt with.

230RN
January 8, 2008, 12:31 PM
I picked up a Uberti replica .44 1858 Remington just because it was pretty and started doing research on it.

I found you could buy a conversion cylinder for .45 Colt for the "Remmy." I did some more reseach on the .45 Colt with respect to reloading to Cowboy Action Level reloads. Cowboy Action Loads are the maximum intensity cartridges recommended for the .45 Colt conversion cylinder (which I purchased later.)

The only Cowboy Action loading information I had was from the Hogdgon manual, but based on that, and using HP-38 (the only Hogdgon powder I have on hand), I compared .45 Colt CALs, factory .357, and factory .45ACP loads as follows:

.45 ACP-----230gr-----850 f/s----369 ft-lb

.45 Colt (CAL)-----200gr-----1002 f/s-----446 ft-lb

.357 Mag-----158gr-----1220 f/s-----522 ft-lb

44 cap&ball-----138gr lead ball-----725 f/s -----161 ft-lb
(^ This is the more or less "standard" Black Powder load.)

(CAL) = maximum "Cowboy Action Load"

It would appear that even the lowly Cowboy Action level load in .45 Colt caliber lies right between the .45 ACP and the .357 loads.

I realize it may not be fair to compare a specialized .45 Colt REload to factory .357s and .45 ACPs, but it just shows what can be done with the .45 Colt, even at low-level loadings.

I was impressed, to say the least.

Note I have not actually tried this Cowboy Action load since I haven't been able to find 200gr bullets in sample quantities --what seems to be available locally is only 500 rd boxes of them.

Standard disclaimers apply with respect to liability.

Further input from others is welcome and appreciated.

usp_fan
January 8, 2008, 05:01 PM
You can buy .45 Colt ammo for between $15 and $25 per box for the standard stuff. You may find it cheaper in your area. If the revolver is a Ruger, an attractive option may be to send it to Ruger for a second cylinder in .45 ACP to be fitted. Then you may shoot .45 Colt, .45 ACP, and .45 Auto Rim in the same pistol.

If you reload, you can get your ammo cost waaaaaaaaay down! Once you have brass, bullets, powder, and primers are fairly inexpensive in bulk. If you cast your own bullets, the price gets even better. At one point, I was reloading .45 Colt for well below 10 cents a round. Now it's a bit more with the increase in metal costs.

Tom C.
January 8, 2008, 05:11 PM
Adding a .45 ACP cylinder to a Ruger NMBH doesn't give automatic access to .45 AR. You have to take the gun to a 'smith and have the cylinder trimmed to allow a headspacing of .089" for .45 AR. Then you can use .45 ACP and .45 AR in the same cylinder and .45 Colt in the original cylinder.

That is actually a pretty viable solution for a non-reloader. .45 ACP is much cheaper and more available than .45 Colt. It shoots very well in my Rugers.

MrAcheson
January 8, 2008, 05:35 PM
.45 ACP is much cheaper and more available than .45 Colt. It shoots very well in my Rugers.Yup, as long as you realize that magnum level .45 colt and factory level .45 acp will not shoot to the same points of aim. I can't tell you the number of people that have complained about that on these very boards. Gee, two cartridges loaded to very different power levels shoot to very different places? Whodathunkit?

Urbana John
January 8, 2008, 06:13 PM
I've got an Uberti "Henry 1860" in 45 LC, the one that loads at the front end!!
No wooden forearm----I really, really like that rifle and it shoots my reloads just fine----wish I could put a "period" type scope on it!!

But,,,,,,,I also have 2 Ruger Super Blackhawks in .357 mag AND an Uberti "Winchester 1873" in 357 mag.

I think the 200gr JHP in the 45LC, would "take" anything in our part of the world. (Shot placement a plus!!)

You should see the golf ball I hit with that round at 75 yards, and the story behind it!!

Everyone has a favorite calibure and gun/rifle, but after getting the EBR fever, I haven't shot my "levers" much lately.

UJ

Constantine-p89
January 8, 2008, 08:31 PM
So how many round do you get for that price usp fan? The 357 is a Ruger and I know that Ruger is a GREAT gun but the 357 doesn't reach out and grab me like the 45 LONG COLT does I mean, itis slower but what would you prefer for everything defensive wise?

stormspotter
January 8, 2008, 11:41 PM
Can't really help in your decision but I like and have both.

I have a Ruger 50th 357 to go with my Browning B92 357. You will have more loads to choose from with the 357, and you can shoot 38 specials also.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k10/ema567/100_3213.jpg

I don't plan on souping the 45 Colt up to 44 mag. ballistics so I settled for a Ruger New Vaquero, smaller frame than the New Model Blackhawk, and load 270 gr. SAA SWC's over 8.0 gr. Unique.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k10/ema567/100_3473.jpg

Both have gunfighter style grips and the New Vaquero has a SBH hammer installed.

Of the two, I shoot the 45 Colt more.

spiroxlii
January 9, 2008, 12:33 AM
I have an 1873 Colt SAA replica by Uberti. It's a beautiful one with the walnut birdshead grips and the case color hardened finish. I fire standard pressure .45LC loads through it regularly, and the gun is nice and heavy, so the recoil is smooth and manageable. I also get very good accuracy out of it. I probably shoot better with it than I do with most of the other handguns I've handled. But that's just because I'm probably better with the SA trigger pull than I am with most DA handguns.

It really is a lot of fun.

Constantine-p89
January 9, 2008, 01:23 AM
Thanks for the pictures and comments guys, if do end up trading it in for a revolver I will MOST LIKELY get the 45long colt single.

usp_fan
January 9, 2008, 01:29 AM
Which .45 is it?

Constantine-p89
January 9, 2008, 01:38 AM
A single action 45 long colt revolver. As for the make I have no idea, I always look everywhere and I found nothing except the caliber. They are very nice though.

spiroxlii
January 9, 2008, 01:46 AM
The Rugers are very nice and reliable. They look like old "cowboy guns," but they have modern transfer bar safeties, which allows you to safely load your "sixgun" with six rounds with less risk of accidental discharge than you'd have with a more faithful Colt SAA replica.

That said, I didn't want a Ruger. I wanted a more realistic replica of an 1873 Colt SAA, so I got the one made by Uberti, which looks beautiful and functions beautifully too. Its firing pin is fixed to the hammer, so instead of loading six rounds, I load one, skip one, and load the remaining four. Then when I lower the hammer down, it is resting on an empty chamber instead of having the firing pin resting on the primer of a cartridge where an accidental drop or smack could set a round off.

Is it less convenient and possibly less safe? Yeah, if you aren't aware of the issue. But I prefer it because it's more authentic, and my reason for buying a single action revolver was NOT to have a practical carry or self defense weapon. It was to have a fun range gun.

Constantine-p89
January 9, 2008, 02:28 AM
Well mine would be a range gun/house gun.

spiroxlii
January 9, 2008, 02:33 AM
As a range gun/house gun, you might want to go with the Ruger then. In addition to the transfer bar safety that lets you load six rounds safely, it also uses coil springs instead of the more authentic leaf springs that the original 1873 Colt used. The Uberti uses leaf springs, which are more like the original, but they also have the potential to break. Coil springs are not likely to break ever.

Constantine-p89
January 9, 2008, 02:50 AM
Ok ill think about the Ruger.

Vern Humphrey
January 9, 2008, 06:18 PM
Adding a .45 ACP cylinder to a Ruger NMBH doesn't give automatic access to .45 AR. You have to take the gun to a 'smith and have the cylinder trimmed to allow a headspacing of .089" for .45 AR. Then you can use .45 ACP and .45 AR in the same cylinder and .45 Colt in the original cylinder.
Correct. Many people fail to understand the additional headspace in M1917 and similar double actions was to allow space to use half-moon clips. Since single actions don't need half-moon clips, they don't have that excessive headspace, and the back of the cylinder needs to be milled to allow you to shoot .45 AR.

Of course, the purpose of the .45 AR was to allow you to shoot your M1917 without half-moon clips. So why would you want to pay extra to shoot a rare and fairly expensive case when you can shoot plentiful and fairly cheap .45 ACP?

MCgunner
January 9, 2008, 07:11 PM
I'd pick .45 colt if it's a Ruger Blackhawk. Otherwise, I'd go .357 Magnum. Of course, I handload and .45 Colt is dirt cheap when your bullets are free. Brass lasts a long time in light loads. All I have to buy is powder and primers except if I'm loading 300JHP/XTPs at 1200 fps which I don't shoot much.

Vern Humphrey
January 9, 2008, 07:46 PM
Both .45 Colt and .357 can be dirt cheap. You can and probably will shoot more .38 Special in your SA than .357. Thirty-eight brass can be found anywhere -- most ranges are littered with it, free for just bending over and picking it up. Get a mould (I like the Lee 6-cavity moulds for pistol bullets) and sweet talk your local tire dealer to get wheel weights.

Tom C.
January 9, 2008, 07:51 PM
Of course, the purpose of the .45 AR was to allow you to shoot your M1917 without half-moon clips. So why would you want to pay extra to shoot a rare and fairly expensive case when you can shoot plentiful and fairly cheap .45 ACP?

.45 ACP brass can vary considerably in length. This isn't an issue with a 1911 or when using moon or half moon clips, but it can cause FTF in a revolver without clips. .45 AR headspaces on the rim. It eliminates the problem.

.45 AR brass is now available from Remington and Starline. It can be reloaded on the same set-up as .45 ACP with a change of shell plate. I prefer to use it in my revolvers to .45 ACP brass.

MCgunner
January 9, 2008, 08:43 PM
Both .45 Colt and .357 can be dirt cheap. You can and probably will shoot more .38 Special in your SA than .357. Thirty-eight brass can be found anywhere -- most ranges are littered with it,

Not at our club. I don't own a .40, but the cops shoot it. That one is everywhere. I do own a .45 ACP and that brass is everywhere, ditto 9x19. :D

I get range scrap out of the back stop. It's like a little lead mine, 30 minutes, I got a jumbo coffee can full. :D Tire guy wants money for tire weights, but they make excellent bullets. Need to get a 6 gang mold or three, though. I have 2 cavities and they're slower, but I have plenty of time when I'm casting, not a real big deal really.

Tom, autoloaders head space on the case, too, though if it's a little short oft times it will head space on the extractor, but that's not desirable. Thing about any auto that head spaces on the case mouth is to trim it to the right length on first loading and don't use a roll crimp.

Vern Humphrey
January 9, 2008, 10:31 PM
I get range scrap out of the back stop. It's like a little lead mine, 30 minutes, I got a jumbo coffee can full.
I used to shoot at a range that would sponsor weekend-long North-South Skirmish Association matches. You could mine so much lead after those matches that your truck would be riding on the axels when you hauled it home. And pure lead, too.

Tire guy wants money for tire weights, but they make excellent bullets.
Wait until you need new tires. Call him up, tell him what you want and make an appointment to come in and have the new tires put on. And then ask if he has any wheel-weights lying around.

Tom C.
January 9, 2008, 11:17 PM
Tom, autoloaders head space on the case, too, though if it's a little short oft times it will head space on the extractor, but that's not desirable. Thing about any auto that head spaces on the case mouth is to trim it to the right length on first loading and don't use a roll crimp.

Autoloaders headspace on mouth, and the 1911 has something like .25" of excess firing pin travel. I don't think you would have trouble igniting .45 GAP in a 1911, with or without the extractor. Not a good idea though.

I don't roll crimp .45 ACP or .45 AR. I use the same taper crimp on both.

Wedge
January 13, 2008, 11:05 PM
If you don't reload do NOT get a .45 Colt.

Otherwise it is a tossup between what platform you like best. I happen to really like .45 Colt a lot but I also reload.

I don't have a .357 Mag so that is what I would get...

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