[444]

Why do you suppose ammo manufacturers package .22LR ammo in quantities of 50 or 100 ? Who goes out and shoots 50 rounds of .22LR ? I buy primarily Wal Mart "bulk packed" .22 ammo. I don't buy it because it is the most accurate, it isn't the most reliable either, but it comes in a reasonable sized package. I often go out and shoot several hundred .22 rounds in a session. Even if I buy other ammo by the brick I now have a whole bunch of small boxes littering up the back of my pickup truck. Worse are the plastic containers that hold 100 rounds with the sliding top. You burn up three boxes of that stuff and now you have something that will take nature a thousand years to break down.
What is wrong with just having 500 rounds loose in a carton like Wal Mart sells ? Why doesn't every ammo comapany offer all their variations in this packaging ?

[natedog]

I agree. Thats why I use Remington's Bucket 'o Bullets. Its a 500 round plastic jar of loose .22LR rounds, and it's resealable. I like it.

[Combat-wombat]

I got some bulk Remington ammo at Big 5 (box of 525, I think) and it misfired about every other round. I stick woth good ammo, like PMC Zapper or Federal High Velocity, and have had no problems.

[444]

Combat-wombat, you missed the point. Why doesn't every manufacturer sell all their ammo in bulk. Why can't you buy a bucket of PMC Zapper or a carton of Federal High Velocity that hold 500 or more rounds without all the packaging ? Why do they insist on putting it in those little boxes of 50 ?

[feedthehogs]

Most practice their sport to improve.

Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc, all have bulk packaging.
I believe most of the bulk fails quality control so they dump it in a box for cheap.

Just examine the bullets and measure powder weights.

Why use ammo that is neither accurate or reliable.
All that boils down to is pulling the trigger to hear a bang.
A cap gun will do the same.

[E357]

You worried about the box littering up the enviroment, but your not concerned about all the lead you've just dumped on Mother Nature???

Most serious target shooters use soft lead outside lubricated rounds that get both deformed and sometimes gritty in the bulk packs. The really serious shooters also weight and measure every .22 rimfire round and then put them in fancy jewel box like wooden cases before matches.

Elliot

[444]

E357, where do you think the lead comes from in the first place ?
Actually, I am not all that worried about all the packaging, I just don't see the point of it.
I admit that I am not a serious match shooter with .22s. And I also admit that I don't examine every bullet on the end of every case I put in my gun. But I have never noticed any damage to them. I suppose if you were trying to squeeze the last little bit of accuracy out of whatever you are shooting, this might be a concern, but not to me and I am sure not to a lot of people. If serious match shooters want to weigh each loaded round, measure rim thickness etc. and then put them all in a nice wooden box, what difference does it make how they were originally packaged ?
The complaints about the Wal Mart or Big 5 bulk packed ammo is one of the reasons I bring this subject up. If you had a broad selection of bulk packed ammo, then maybe the complaints would go away. I personally have shot many, many thousand of the Wal Mart Federal and Remington bulk ammo. I never noticed that it wasn't accurate, but then again, I wasn't trying for 1/4" groups at 100 yards with it either. I have shot smallbore silhouette matches with it and even won a couple which is good for the vast majority of .22 shooting I do. My shooting technique was the reason I didn't shoot a perfect score, not the ammo or the gun. I have had autoloading guns that wouldn't run on one brand of Wal-Mart bulk ammo. For example, my Ciener converson won't run on either the Federal or the Remington. I have an AMT Small Game Hunter that I used for silhouette that wouldn't run on the Remington. But, obviously it works great in my revolvers and I don't have an issue with it's accuracy in them either.
I do own a professionally tuned Ruger 10/22 with a Weaver 36X scope on it and a match chamber. I don't shoot bulk packed ammo in it. For that, I buy only the best ammo. But, that is a very small minority of the .22 ammo I burn up.

[Standing Wolf]

You burn up three boxes of that stuff and now you have something that will take nature a thousand years to break down.

It's easier to pack out the empty box than it was to pack in the full. Once you get it home, plastic is entirely recyclable.

[E357]

E357, where do you think the lead comes from in the first place ?
Well, since you asked: Most lead comes from the cooking of either lead sulphide or lead oxide ores - a very nasty business that accounts for a lot of acid-rain. Plastic boxes are not much better but as you pointed out the breakdown products, while unsightly - don't enter the food chain. One of the worst poisions is lead oxide in the air, water supply and marsh lands. At my outdoor range we shoot lead into ground limestone berms to keep the EPA out of our hair - as they come around every few years to check the ground water levels.

Elliot

[JohnBT]

I don't shoot bulk ammo, but here are some of the reasons I learned to dislike the giant economy sized box o' bullets.

The bullets get all dinged up & it does make a difference to me.

I've seen a few bullets bent in the case.

The lube gets all over the cases and then me and then the gun.

I prefer the small cardboard boxes, but the plastic boxes are useful for storing small parts and mailing things. They also make it easier to dump out a presise number of rounds.

I frequently go out and shoot 50 rounds each of different brands, or lot numbers, to see what a rifle likes. Ten tubs of .22 ammo would weigh too much. I'd rather carry 10 boxes of 50.

Big containers won't fit in my jacket pocket. I have the same problem with shotgun shells.

John

[Orbital-Burn]

might be the (traitorous)BATF requires them to package them the way they do. Why do arrows get sold in packs of 3?

[444]

I am kind of surprised that so many people like the way .22 ammo is packed currently. I never brought this up with anyone before, I just knew I didn't like it.
I went out and opened a Wal-Mart box of Federals. I dumped a handfull out. I couldn't see any that looked like they were damaged in any way to me; certainly nothing with a bullet bent in the case. I have fired at a minimum, ten thousand rounds of this stuff and never had a round that appeared damaged to me.
Oh well, I guess this isn't really even an issue with me since I do 90% of my .22 shooting with Wal Mart bulk ammo; somewhere around 1k/month.

This is also how I have handled my handloaded ammo for the last 20 years. I put it all in zip lock freezer bags. I KNOW I have never damaged a round by doing that.

[Mannlicher]

I have god knows how many thousands of .22 rounds packed away. I just can not walk away from a good deal on bulk ammo.

I don't shoot my .22s much anymore, I have several 10/22, a really nice old Stevens semi auto, a very accurate Remington 521t, and a few others parked her or there. Bet I have not shot 100 rounds all year. When I do go out to shoot, its usually the CCI mini mags in the plastic box. They shoot best for me. For tree rats, its Ely match ,and the old Remmy.

[NapAttack]

The companies sell ammo the way people want to buy it. Market forces dictate how companies package their products.

You may shoot enough strictly plinking to purchase bulk packs but very few people do.

Novice or average shooters are not into match ammo or bulk packs. They'll go in and purchase what looks best. They don't have enough skill or care enough to search for the best ammo for their firearm. May not even know how. They'll be there looking for a small pack of .22s and buy what looks best. For them a 50 round box may last years.

To the match shooter, he will not purchase bulk packs. He knows enough to select the best "match" ammo for his firearm and no way would one of the bench rest guys buy bulk packs with all the ammo banging together and getting dinged up.

Me, I buy both. I like to plink with my .22s and I buy the cheapest bulk packs for that. When I purchase match ammo for a target rifle or pistol, I buy the individual boxes. I may purchase several boxes, but I want each round separated so they don't get dinged up. I'm about to try weighing each round to see if that affects accuracy. BTW, I also have separate pistols and rifles for target shooting and plinking.

edited to add: BTW, buying ammo in bulk is also unusual. I had never heard of doing this until I got to these forums. Before the internet I was a casual shooter, when I wanted a box of ammo, I just went and purchased a couple of 50 round boxes. When I got into IPSC I reloaded. With the advent of Internet access being so common I've learned a lot and now know to purchase ammo in bulk.

[zahc]

I couldn't see any that looked like they were damaged in any way to me; certainly nothing with a bullet bent in the case. I have fired at a minimum, ten thousand rounds of this stuff and never had a round that appeared damaged to me.

Same here. I wish I could buy Mini-Mags by the 500. I can put them in an old plastic container for the field.

might be the (traitorous)BATF requires them to package them the way they do. Why do arrows get sold in packs of 3?

They do? :confused: :scrutiny: IME and AFAIK arrows are sold by the dozen. Maybe half dozens.

[Dave R]

The little 50-100 round boxes server a very useful purpose. They allow you to try out several varieties of ammo in your new firearm in reasonable quantities. I would hate to have to buy 3-5 bricks when I get a new .22, just to see what it likes.

Once I have determined what flavor of .22 ammo my firearm likes, then I'll buy bricks.

I also like the boxes of 50 with the plastic inserts. I re-use them. Refill them from a brick and toss them in the range bag(s). That way I always have some .22 with me, and don't have to haul around a brick.

[Spackler]

I've run through countless thousands of rounds of the Federal "Wal-Mart" ammo with no problems at all. It's certainly not match ammo, but for $8.96/550, I don't expect it to be. It's plenty accurate for my purposes, and it's been totally reliable.

[Chugach]

I've also gone through thousands of rounds of bulk pack Federal, Remington, and Winchester. Maybe 5 out of 500 will be true duds. (Other FTF's are my fault...I typically haven't cleaned the firearm adequately.) Duds give me a great opportunity to practice the "tap, rack, bang" drill with my Ruger Mark II.

I have 9 mags for my Ruger. Typically load them up before heading to the range. Then I literally grab a couple of handfuls of bulk pack cartridges and drop them in a resealable sandwich bag, then throw them in a pack.

Bulk pack is plenty adequate for most of my recreational shooting: shooting at 5 - 10 yards, rapid front sight acquisition, good trigger control, and good recovery for follow up shots.

[Chugach]

AND...

I'd love to find CCI and equivalent in bulk pack.

[six 4 sure]

I’d be willing to make a small wager that the companies do not realize the cost savings that’s available by using an alternative packaging method.

A few years ago I did had a summer internship with the Illinois EPA Office of Pollution Prevention. It’s amazing the amount of waste that occurs in packaging and shipping. It’s equally amazing the amount of savings/cost avoidance available with a little creative thinking. From what I’ve seen this problem isn’t limited to .22 ammo.

Of course that's my opinion and I could be wrong.

six

[Chugach]

Good point re: packaging, six 4 sure.

444, I also think that CCI and others don't bulk pack because it might damage their carefully marketed image. After shooting thousands of rounds of bulk pack, I don't believe this equation:

bulk = low quality

Most do.

[444]

Ok, maybe I was't out to lunch. There are a few people that see what I am talking about.

[MrPhil]

My only 22 is a Ruger MkII target pistol and I go through Remington 525 packs and Federal 550's like water . . . The Rems have a failure rate of about 1%. The Federals at about 1 per pack, that's less than 0.2%. The Federal groups a little better. About like the Federal Match. At a much lower price. Try it, you'll like it!

[mummac]

I buy the bulk Remington boxes. I liked it better when they sold the cardboard canasters with plastic lid.

[Hot brass]

I love the idea of the 50 rnd boxes. I can buy a box of 50 shoot it and if it shoots accuratly in my gun I can buy more. If not I don`t buy any more.

[DadOfThree]

I also like the 50 rd boxes. I spend a lot of the time in the woods and whenever I go, my .22 goes with me. The majority of the time I probably don't shoot at all. It's easy to throw a small box of .22s in my pocket. When I have the bulk, I grab a hand full and throw them in my pocket to take along. Then I'll lose one or two when I pull my keys out, one or two will get left in my pocket when I empty them. Pretty soon there are .22 shells in my truck, in the washing machine, on the bedroom floor etc. But now that I think about it, that happens anyway. :D That's why I can't fly anymore. I'm not sure I could put together several sets of clothes and a suitcase or two and then guarantee that there were no live rounds of one caliber or another tucked in there some where. :D :D

[RustyHammer]

I like the 10/100 boxes too. Comes in handy for trips into the field, fits neatly in gun rugs, or trying (mixing) different types on a trip or with verious guns. ( I have different loads for different guns, based upon performance. )

I probably have a dozen different types of .22LR in my ammo locker right now. Small boxes make it easier to manage and takes much less space.

Hate "ziplock" ammo ... loose in is even worse.


Rusty

[sturmruger]

I have three 10-22s and two .22 pistols. I end up buying allot of .22LR. I have had the best lucjk with the Federal Bucket or bullets. I use it for general plinking. When it come time to do some hunting I prefer the PMC Match ammo, or the Eley Green Box. Both very accurate and seem to never missfire.

[bogie]

To the match shooter, he will not purchase bulk packs. He knows enough to select the best "match" ammo for his firearm and no way would one of the bench rest guys buy bulk packs with all the ammo banging together and getting dinged up.

Well, the match ammo doesn't "come" in bulk packs. But when a .22 Rimfire BR shooter (as opposed to Centerfire BR...) finds a lot that shoots well in his/her rifle, some have been known to buy entire PALLETS of that lot.

That's bulk.

[Waitone]

The EPA may think it knows about cost waste related to packaging, but I can guarantee you ammo manufacturers can cite the cost down to the penny. I'm in the packaging industry and I can tell you of the constant drive to remove cost from packaging.

Why individual boxes? Shelf space at gun ranges. Someone renting a range for an hour does not want to walk off with 400 rounds of ammo in a big box.

Product segmentation is important. The cheapest way to segment a product is packaging.

Channels of distribution may demand different styles of packaging. Ranges may demand 50 // 100 pack while Wally world demands 500 pack. Why, because a particular retailer may have a business plan that demands minimum purchase in order for them to make money. The entire warehouse marketing concept was based on the idea of a minimum register ring everytime a product was scanned. That is way Costco bundles ketchup in two bottles to a package.

Promotional packaging is used to coincide with other major events. Hereabouts NASCAR is big so I can pick up 550 count bricks at a promotional discount featuring a NASCAR race.

Believe me, packaging is not ignored. What is used is used for specific economic // marketing reasons. There is no "waste" as the EPA would have you believe.

[Poodleshooter]

I've never really worried about bulk vs. individual packaging,as it is secondary to my primary concern:cost. I've bought bricks of Remington Thunderbolt in 50rd individual cardboard boxes for $7.90 and paid $9+ for the bulk packed Golden Bullets, so bulk packed isn't always the cheapest.
I keep several of the little CCI sliding top boxes around for hunting purposes, and keep them refilled with bulk hollowpoints for easier toting.
I think that in my entire life, I've probably bought about 20 boxes of "premium" .22rf, including specialty stuff like hypervelocity, CB's and subsonic rounds. The countless ten of thousands of other rounds were economy ammo such as Remington's Thunderbolts,Cyclones and Goldens; Winchester's Dynapoints,Wildcats and Xperts; and Federal's Lightnings and American Eagles.
If it's inside 1" at 25-50yds, I'm happy.

[Mike Irwin]

Tradition, really, is my guess.

When S&W contracted for their first shipments of .22 Short, they did so in boxes of 50.

In some ways that made sense, as it was a 6-round cylinder, and you would only load 5 rounds at a time.

That sort of went by the way side, though, when the larger chamberings were developed. Five rounds in the cylinder, but still supplied in boxes of 50...

Colt used to package its preloaded cartridges for its cap & ball revolvers in flat packs of 6.

[444]

It seems to me, some of you guys need to investigate better ways to carry your .22 ammo in the field. When I was a kid I put 50 round boxes in my pocket, but soon thereafter I spotted a better mousetrap in a Beeman air rifle catalog. It is a little pouch similar to what people used to use to hold pipe tobacco. You squeeze the ends of it and the center opens up. You put it on your belt and can easily carry a couple hundred .22LR rounds with much easier access. You don't even have to have a third hand when you are loading the gun. Somewhere along the way I moved and couldn't find that pouch, so I bought another one that is made out of nylon with velcro at the top. Either one is far superior to carry around a cardboard box in your pocket, let alone those plastic containers that are easily broken in your pocket.

"Someone renting a range for an hour does not want to walk off with 400 rounds of ammo in a big box."

Big box ? You mean like 4" square ? One that is about half the size of a brick of .22s that are packed in 50 round boxes ?

[cordex]

I'm with you, 444.

I don't think they should offer bulk packs to the exclusion of the 50 round boxes, but I simply don't buy the 50 or 100 round itty bitty boxes any more except when getting specialty ammo.

I've taken to keeping a few thousand rounds of .22LR in an ammo can and taking what I need from there.