How to know how much crimp?


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TreyNC
January 9, 2008, 08:14 PM
And for that matter haw do you know how much crimp you are using? I am almost ready to load for my 25-06 and am wondering about crimping. I crimp mu 300Sav what I think is heavy. Much lighter and I can push the bullets into the case by hand, so I am doing the same thing with my 30-30. However, the 25-06 is the only one scoped and I plan on doing some bench shooting with it and am worried about pressure. Where do I start?

Thanks

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rcmodel
January 9, 2008, 08:34 PM
If you can push bullets into the case by hand you have a problem crimping is not going to solve.

There should be enough neck tension od a rifle case to hold the bullet firmly against finger pressure.

Sounds like either you are not getting them fully sized, or else your expander plug is a couple thousandths too big.

Of the calibers you mentioned, the only one that "needs" a crimp is the 30-30. They take a beating from recoil in a tubular magazine.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Down South
January 9, 2008, 08:45 PM
I've never crimp rifle cartridges and I've been loading them for 37 years. Like stated above. The neck is not getting resized or the expander ball is too big. What brand dies are you using? 30-30 does need to be crimped because of the tube feed of the rifle.

USSR
January 9, 2008, 09:28 PM
Of the calibers you mentioned, the only one that "needs" a crimp is the 30-30. They take a beating from recoil in a tubular magazine.

+1.

Don

Stinger
January 10, 2008, 02:07 AM
I agree with the others. Crimping is only necessary with tube magazines. If you can push a bullet into the case with finger pressure, then you have messed up resizing.

TreyNC
January 10, 2008, 08:18 AM
I am using Lee PaceSetter dies on the 30-30, and 300. I have RCBS for the 25-06(not used yet). Originally when sizing the 300Sav I thought I had a problem, but this is the first attempts at rifle so I thought it was just me(maybe still is). At first I had the adjustment too far down resulting in crushing the shoulders when I seated the bullet. I raised that just off to where the cases aren't damaged. Seating depth is not a problem.

TreyNC
January 10, 2008, 07:31 PM
I am using Lee PaceSetter dies on the 30-30, and 300. I have RCBS for the 25-06(not used yet). Originally when sizing the 300Sav I thought I had a problem, but this is the first attempts at rifle so I thought it was just me(maybe still is). At first I had the adjustment too far down resulting in crushing the shoulders when I seated the bullet. I raised that just off to where the cases aren't damaged. Seating depth is not a problem.

Bowfishrp
January 10, 2008, 07:37 PM
Something is definitely not right. You sure you are using .30 cal bullets? You might want to put the calipers to them and make sure. Do the same thing to the neck and make sure the the ball is not too fat. I agree you should never be able to push the bullets into the case by hand.

Vern Humphrey
January 10, 2008, 08:47 PM
Most people never crimp rifle cartridges. The exceptions are the .30-30 (which needs to work in a tubular magazine) and very heavy recoiling cartridges which can "creep" under the recoil of the first cartidge or two in the magazine.

birdbustr
January 10, 2008, 09:02 PM
Vern, Most people never crimp rifle cartridges.

That statement is quickly becoming false. The Lee Factory Crimp (LFC) has a definite following and use among many of the members here. Look up some of the recent threads. I personally use the LFC for all applications, and especially for straight-walled cases and 30-30 reloading.

30Cal
January 10, 2008, 09:25 PM
That statement is quickly becoming false. The Lee Factory Crimp (LFC) has a definite following and use among many of the members here. Look up some of the recent threads. I personally use the LFC for all applications, and especially for straight-walled cases and 30-30 reloading.

Crimp dies are new to the scene. People have been reloading bottle necked cases for eons without them.


I agree that the sizing die is hosed up. Either send it to Lee and have them fix it or spin the expander in a drill and use sandpaper to get it down to a size that proves good tension.

CBS220
January 10, 2008, 09:27 PM
At around $10 for one, though, they're cheap piece of mind.

I have seen my standard deviation decrease while using one, but if it affects my accuracy any I'm not good enough to tell.

birdbustr
January 10, 2008, 09:33 PM
I am aware that you DON'T have to use the crimp, and if you NEED to use one to keep your bullets from falling out then you are doing something wrong.

TreyNC
January 10, 2008, 10:01 PM
The expander ball is .307, I remeasured the bulletes a random six out of the box are indeed .308. birdbuster, I wish I was still in Denver I would run up so you could set me straight!

Here is something I left out of the post, the type of bullets I am using are Hornady 100gr SJ(short jacket) #3005. Do you think because there is only approx. .25" of jacket there is not enough contacting the case to hold. I didn't notice this problem in the 30-30.

birdbustr
January 10, 2008, 10:18 PM
The seating die would hold the bullet at the edge of the case anyway, so it should be alright to grab onto. I still say try the Lee Factory Crimp die (about $14 at midwayusa.com). I'm pretty sure that will give a firm grip on the bullet. You may want to get another seating die. Even if that doesn't fix the problem, it doesn't hurt to have more than one that is set exactly for a particular bullet/load combo so you don't have to adjust the same die everytime you switch bullets.

BTW I'll be back to the East Coast in 6 months and then back in the South in 13 months. Not NC, but VA or FL. Good luck.

TreyNC
January 10, 2008, 10:35 PM
Thanks birdbuster, I do have the factory crimp, I was trying to rool crimp instead. The extra seating die sounds like a good idea too. Enjoy your travels I grew up in Va and still like some of it, altho I enjoy the little bit of altitude (3100') we have in NC.

SlamFire1
January 10, 2008, 11:20 PM
I have been squadded any number of times at Camp Perry with the best highpower rifle shooters in the world. As I am always curious about their practices I ask about reloading and reloading practices.

Not one ever crimped or crimps the bullet on their match ammunition. If there was the slightest, tiny tinest improvement in accuracy, the practice would be widespread.

As for the 30-30, I just recently acquired one, it is not in the same class as a target rifle, and I doubt a crimp will effect its accuracy one way or the other.

I do crimp my 44 Mag ammuntion for my M1894. Its not a target rifle either.

Vern Humphrey
January 11, 2008, 09:58 AM
That statement is quickly becoming false. The Lee Factory Crimp (LFC) has a definite following and use among many of the members here. Look up some of the recent threads. I personally use the LFC for all applications, and especially for straight-walled cases and 30-30 reloading.
Note the exceptions I cited -- cartridges (like the .30-30) which are used in tubular magazines, and hard-recoilling cartridges, like the old straight-cased blackpowder cartridges.

Pistol cartridges are another matter -- revolvers need a crimp to allow for proper combustion of the powder and to keep bullets from creeping forward under recoil. Automatics like the .45 ACP and 9MM usually need a taper crimp to feed well.

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