UK - Police cleared to shoot twice a week


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Airwolf
January 10, 2003, 08:34 PM
http://www.news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=33422003

Police cleared to shoot twice a week

BY JANE HAMILTON CRIME REPORTER

ARMED police are being forced to draw their weapons twice a week in Edinburgh after a dramatic rise in the number of gun scares on the city’s streets.

Police chiefs have given the order for armed officers to pull their guns three times more often in the last nine months than in the year before.

The order for police marksmen to prepare to fire is only given when senior officers believe lives are at risk. But growing problems with guns being used in the city and people brandishing fake weapons have led to the order being given 76 times since April 1 last year, compared with just 25 occasions in the same period of the previous year.

The latest figures released by Lothian and Borders Police come the day after the Government revealed crimes involving firearms rose 35 per cent last year in England and Wales.

And that comes amid concern about a rise in firearms incidents in Scotland.

The most recent statistics, published in September, showed a ten per cent increase in firearms offences.

Although crime involving many of the most dangerous weapons, such as shotguns, rifles, pistols and air guns, decreased last year in line with an overall ten-year decline, there was a 40 per cent rise in offences involving other types of firearms.

A Scottish Executive spokeswoman said these were mostly less powerful firearms such as starting pistols.

Soaring gun crime will be the focus of a meeting of ministers, police, customs officials and lawyers today hosted by Home Secretary David Blunkett.

The increase has reinforced calls for tighter firearms laws following the New Year’s Eve murder of two teenage girls, cut down in the crossfire of a suspected gangland war.

Today, Lothian and Borders Deputy Chief Constable Tom Wood reiterated his warning that someone will soon be killed if the trend continues.

"Guns, both real and fake, represent a growing menace on the streets of Edinburgh," he said.

"More and more young people, who tend to be in their late teens or early 20s, are carrying guns because they think it is cool. They are becoming a very dangerous fashion accessory.

"Giving the order for armed officers to draw their weapons is only done where it is agreed a very real threat exists for the safety of officers or the public. Someone, somewhere and soon, is going to be shot in possession of one of these weapons, whether they are real or fake."

Incidents include the arrest of a 32-year-old man after a three-hour gun alert in the city centre last month. Police were called to a block of flats in Morrison Street after reports of a man poking what looked like a gun through the letterbox of a second-floor flat.

No-one was hurt and a report has been submitted to the procurator fiscal.

In September, a woman’s screams and reports of a man firing a gun out of a window sparked a siege at a flat on Barony Street, near Broughton Street.

One man was charged with breach of the peace.

The figures also showed three guns a day were recovered by the force last year. More than 960 weapons, including air rifles, pistols and shotguns, and ammunition were surrendered during an amnesty by the force or seized at incidents.

During the first five months of last year, the armed response unit of Lothian and Borders Police attended 65 incidents and recovered 24 air weapons and imitation guns.

Beat officers recovered a further 77 air weapons.

The figures were revealed as Mr Blunkett announced he is to make the carrying of replica weapons and air rifles illegal. Under the plans, police will have the powers to arrest anyone carrying fake guns or air weapons in public without good reason.

Edinburgh North and Leith MP Mark Lazarowicz, who backed a campaign to tighten gun laws, hailed the plans, saying: " The figures today show that we need to take gun crime seriously."

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El Tejon
January 10, 2003, 08:41 PM
This is so inane I don't know where to begin.

Problems with gangsters shooting people with real guns so they crack down on fake guns and luftgewehren?

The individual constable has to await an order from higher-higher to defend himself?

There's a campaign to tighten gun laws? What is left to do? Take away their purses?

And all of this makes sense to them over there?

waterdog
January 10, 2003, 08:42 PM
They have to given orders to draw their weapons???

How assinine!

The the people of the UK, need a BoRs

waterdog

P95Carry
January 10, 2003, 08:58 PM
As an ex Limey ..... I can only laugh (hollow laugh at that) ...... as I watch the crap they have brought on themselves.

To say ''out of date'' and ''heads up a$$es'' would be mild comments .......:rolleyes:

As they say ........''If guns are outlawed .......................''

sixgun_symphony
January 10, 2003, 09:11 PM
Socialism destroyed Great Britain.

Now its just Britain, and pretty soon Britain becomes a mere province of the EU govt.

sanchezero
January 10, 2003, 09:23 PM
What is left to do? Take away their purses?

No, actually, parliment is considering disrobing the populace.

Not only will it make weapons impossible to conceal, they hope to increase the tourist trade.

PATH
January 10, 2003, 11:20 PM
It sounds ridiculous but I'm sure eventually someone will propose disrobing as a means to end the gun violence. Yes the UK will soon be a mere province in a united europe.

4v50 Gary
January 10, 2003, 11:46 PM
Maybe the Black Watch (42nd Royal Highlanders) should return to their original duty of providing civil order in Scotland.

MessedUpMike
January 11, 2003, 12:43 AM
Naked doesn't 100% mean unconcealable, But I'll try not to go there. Actually three years ago or so Newfoundland PD became the last major PD in North America to issue Full time carry orders. Prior to that all weapons were losked in the trunk of the car and only removed with a (radio) OK from HQ. I don't have any experience with police dispatch, but if they're as reliable as Fire dispatch the last thing I would want is the OK from them to draw a gun.

What's a BoR?

Flying V
January 11, 2003, 03:09 AM
"Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre."

JPM70535
January 11, 2003, 07:26 AM
There are so many avenues of thought opened up after reading the above that I dont know where to start.

The overriding feeling is one of gratitude for having the good fortune to be born American. I can think of no other country on earth that has the freedoms we enjoy and take for granted.

The UK citizenry may think of themselves as more civilized in their disdain for self protection through the use of firearms. And yes, if it were possible to eliminate every gun in the UK (or any country) then firearms related crime would in fact be non-existant. That doesn't mean that crime would decrease, quite the contrary. The Neanderthals among us prone to criminal activity would have a field day, running rampant with no fear of resistance to their activitys.

The increase in violent crimes in the Uk speaks volumes in contradiction of their disarmament policies. First, handguns, then rifles,then Airguns, then replicas. When will they outlaw pointed fingers?

The truly sad part of the UK situation is that the" SUBJECTS" have no recourse, inlarge part because they are "SUBJECTS" not citizens.

For all the faults inherent in the system of government in the US, we should be forever thankful that we are American endowed of those certain inalienable rights.


THE SECOND AMENDMENT GUARANTEES ALL THE OTHERS!!!

Hkmp5sd
January 11, 2003, 07:42 AM
What's a BoR?

Bill of Rights.

BogBabe
January 11, 2003, 09:03 AM
From the article: Although crime involving many of the most dangerous weapons, such as shotguns, rifles, pistols and air guns, decreased last year in line with an overall ten-year decline, there was a 40 per cent rise in offences involving other types of firearms.

Crime using shotguns, rifles, pistols and air guns has allegedly declined. What are the "other types of firearms" that are being used?

waterdog
January 11, 2003, 11:37 AM
Do you think those people have ever read our Constitution or BoRs?

Maybe we should encourage them to read it.

Maybe we should send copies to the victims
of the current crime wave.

waterdog

Tamara
January 11, 2003, 11:41 AM
I'm still stuck on the whole "cleared to shoot" thing. If they can't figure out on their own when and when not to shoot, why are they allowed to carry a gun in the first place?

Art Eatman
January 11, 2003, 11:43 AM
Good question, BogBabe! :D (For that matter, I've never thought of an airgun in the "most" dangerous category.) However, to expect rational thought from a Limey bureaucrat is extreme optimism, IMO.

waterdog, given the number of folks in the U.S. who don't understand the BoR, why would you expect understanding in a place like Britain? :banghead:

Art

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