[Blain]

Ok, say you are in TSHTF, war, or combat of sometype where you have to bring your own personal battle rifle and ammo. Since you would not be bound to the same "rules of war" that the military is, would you bring anything special? Would you rather have a softpoint than a fmj, why or why not?

If FMJ, would you want plain ol surplus or special match rounds?

Looking at the pictures, the softpoint looks quite impressive, though I wonder how it penetrates against hard targets.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/M80.jpg

FMJ .308 preformance on human flesh.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/308%20Winchester.jpg

[eatatjoes]

i think if the SHTF i would use whatever i had on hand, which would most likely be military surplus FMJ. if i happened to come across any other types of ammo i would most likely take it and use it as i saw fit. since no rules would apply i would have no problem using what was on hand to protect myself and my family. i don't think penetration would be my main concern, a good performer against game would most likely be what i needed. i envision having to shoot for food much more often than for defense.

[Zundfolge]

most soldiers and cops wear some sort of body armor so if its an insurection against the government its FMJ, if its civil unrest then its softpoint or JHP because you will be firing on unarmored targets.



jeebus, I feel icky thinking about this :(

[digex]

Who cares? ANYTHING coming out of the sharp end of a .454 is going to cause plenty of damage, regardless of how its packaged :)

[Psssniper]

Being from the Peoples Republic Of Kalifornia,I'll probably be reduced to using a Ball Point pen to protect myself

[Zundfolge]

actualy, the more I think about it, I doubt I'll see the S heading toward the fan, so it will be whatever I happen to have in my closet, which changes from time to time.
(I expect most of us will be in the same boat)

[blades67]

I'd use whatever I could get my hands on. Just so happens I have my hands on some Mil-Surp FMJ right now.:D

[Abenaki]

I would use what ever I had.
but.................If the bad guys were wearing body armor with trama plates.
I would us my 22-250 with some nice varmint loads.

I would shoot for the inner thigh and try to destroy the femoral artery.
This would be shooting from a distance.......Not the in your face type of stuff.

Abenaki

[Tamara]

I would use a Daisy Red Ryder. It will shoot someone's eye out.

[Zundfolge]

damnit Tamara, now I gotta clean the soda off my monitor and out of my keyboard!

:D

[GW]

FMJ
When it hits the fan, ammo feed reliability is number 1!

[TODD3465]

I voted something else because I have 1000+ rds of Speer 125gr "TNT" bullets loaded up for my M1-A.

But, I also have 800+ rds of surplus British R.G FMJ.

Most of my other SHTF rifle ammo is FMJ except for the 500rds of .300 Win Mag which are 168gr Sierra Matchkings.

[Feanaro]

Soft-point if possible. I figured if an 8mm SP won't kill them, I had best start prayin'.

[Dorrin79]

never really thought about it with regards to my long guns.

When you hit someone with an 8mm mauser, does it matter what type of bullet you use?

I keep a decent supply of JHPs for my handguns

[scotjute]

I'll be using soft-point, as I buy ammo with hunting in mind. Seems like a mix of both FMJ and soft-point would be the best combo.

Just a question for those who know, but is there body armour out there that would defeat a soft-point deer rifle round, say .308 caliber for example( just to pick a common one)?
I was under the impression that just about any normal deer rifle round ( say .243 and up) would have enough power to destroy or pass thru any currently available body armour even with a soft-point round.

[Art Eatman]

scotjute, back some 50+ years ago I did some comparison of '06 on armor plate. I dunno; maybeso 5/16" or 3/8" thick. At 100 yards, GI Ball ammo would make a large crater, but would not penetrate. 150-grain handloads (Hornady Spirepoints) blew through, making a 1/2" diameter hole.

Art

[RustyHammer]

If your buying and I can have the same quantity, I'll take the match grade. If I'm buying, give me lots and lots of the FMJ.

/Rusty

[Snowdog]

In my "bug-out closet", my Springfield Armory SAR-4800 Match (FAL clone with KDF brake) has three 20 round mags loaded with Federal Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tips at the ready.

I don't worry about. I've easily invested around 5k between my bug-out weapons (Kimber Classic, G19 and SAR-4800) and gear (damn near every "tritium and titanium" gadget you can think of).
If something happens, you'll be relying more on your wits than your equipment anyway (took several years to figure that out).

Most of the survival stuff I bought years ago has only been touched once, just to test it and pack it away (geiger counter, katadyne ceramic pocket filter, high-dollar solar chargers with high-dollar batteries, Grundig YB-400 w/SSB, and tons of other expensive and wiz-bang goodies). Y2K paranoia got the best of me.
And yes, it's all packaged to be carried at once by one person, though I believe the packed Alaskan 3 weighs a good 70lbs.

Over the past 5 years, I've done a lot of thinking and have developed a different view of things.
Though I subscribe to a different philosophy now, I view the accumilated goods as an insurance policy... something I don't think about, but know could be put to good use if the need arrises.

As far as ammunition goes, I'll use whatever I have, then whatever I can get... it's how (and when) it's used that makes all the difference.

[Steve Smith]

I think I would use some S, and an F to spread it around.

:rolleyes:

[Soap]

Steve,

That brings me to my next thread, which F if the SHTF? Inquiring minds would like to know :scrutiny:

[Steve Smith]

But I prefer the Spendrup 304.8 http://www.spendrupfanco.com/images/120fana.gif at 120" ID.

If you're using something smaller, you're just not spreading the S.


Hope I didn't cause the drift that will eventually make me lock this thread! :) .

[Justin]

Yes, but choosing your F is only 1/4 of the SHTF equation. What about the S? I mean, you want an S that will give you plenty of spread, but not chunk up while in flight. Seems to me that would rule out a lot of your larger mammalian fecal piles.

But then others, such as, say, dog don't really offer the quantity needed for a good spread, except over a small area.

And we all know what the Straussberg Bum Tests concluded about using a fan to spread fecal matter over a small area.

It seems to me that there's no one single fecal material that does it all, and that the best one can do is to strike a balance. Maybe wildcatting fecal piles from multiple animal species one could get closer to attaining the proper balance of spread, quality, quantity, and aerial hang-time.

[Jack19]

Well, realistically, in a SHTF situation I'm going to be seriously into SERE; fighting it out, unless I have to, is not a priority.

That said, I've got FMJ for both practice and carry in rifles and FMJ and Federal's Expanding FMJ round for practice and carry, respectively, in pistols.

Never have to worry about what's in the weapon, if it's still moving, shoot it again.;)

[Andrew Wyatt]

if i'm going to be out in the woods, it's likely that i'll do more poaching than defending my life. hunting ammo is more suitable for this.

[foghornl]

If it is a situation of the .guv has collapsed, foriegn invasion, blue helmets, etc, then I will be loading up FMJ.

For localized rioting, small scale civil disorder, "things going bump in the night", then HP/SP ammo.

[Logistar]

I kinda thought that JHP would be the best choice (unless you were going for penetration). I suppose that soft points would be a compromise.

Logistar

[ShaiVong]

I dont think it makes a whole lot of difference.

If you thump some poor bastard in the chest wearing body armor with HP/SP, and because of that it doesnt penetrate... This aint hollywood, and its not going to just make sparks ping off of his chest while he doesnt even break stride.

Taking a high power rifle round in the chest, even with protection, is at the very least going to wind you and destroy your aim. It would probably snap ribs too. :uhoh: Either way, your outa the fight for the time being.

[benewton]

I'm with ShaiVong.

But, take your first shot to the face: the helmet might contain the exiting round, thus making cleanup less of a pain. If he/she is unarmored, max nix, since the same end will occur, although it's likely to be a bit more messy.

I should also note, for we tactically challanged individuals, that a simple shottie, with 00 buck, should also do the trick, delivered to the same target.

'cause you gotta remember, if you go up against the armored, .gov group, in the end, you die, usually in a fire, but sometimes by slug, if you walk or run out of the blaze, surrendering or not. Saves money: no trial necessary!

So, if you subscribe to the "take one with you" school, you really do need to get it right the first time.

[gryphon]

I'll use whatever I have the most.

[Schuey2002]

Whatever I have on hand when the SHTF. :uhoh:

[Newton]

A .44 Magnum shotgun loaded with Glasers and Fruit Pops, lots of water, and a cute girl, no 2 cute girls in case one gets eaten by a bear - there would be no TV, so I'd have to have something to do.

Oh and some beer, lotttttttttssssss of beer, and pizza, no good having beer without pizza, oh and some gun magazines, you know the good ones like SWAT and American Handgunner, not the crappy ones like Combat Handguns, hopefully that Editor and his team will have been nuked on that one. And like a big kitchen knife, one of those that can cut cans and stuff and take the arm off a gorilla with one swipe coz they're really handy, and some makeup for the girls - not Revlon, the good stuff like Kobashi, and one of those big Cheesypeek Bay Deceiver dogs that can pull people out of lakes and stuff, I'd call him Gnasher, Gnasher would back up the shotgun in case I ran out of bullets or Fruit Pops, and a phone card so I could call my mom in case she got worried.

How am I doing, guys, guys.......

Mike H

[Soap]

Steve,

Now that would be tragic! BTW, are you gonna make the Illuminati conference this weekend in Reno? :D I'll bring some Gurkha Fuertes ;)

[russlate]

Forget Reno - it'll be Hot August Nights - The oldies 50s, 60's, 70's car convention and total gridlock. Have plenty of microwave pizza and cold beer on hand cause you'll be lucky to make the 7/11 in an hour in your car, then another hour back home. If all the tourists don't cause brownouts and no airconditioning.

Or maybe that's the following weekend. Either way, stay home and order the loading supplies delivered to your doorstep!

BTW The Brit's spell the name of their troops Ghurka's. The Indian's Ghorka's. And they carry khukuri's.

PS: Barnes X-bullets should work either way. But have some A2 mololithic solids and Trophy Bonded softpoints just in case. Preferably loaded in a 30-378 Weatherby. By the time you get it sighted in, you'll be flinching so much you can''t hit a barn. And I can limp off like Festus with my cane in relative safety. :evil:

[Combat-wombat]

FMJ. "They" will be wearing body amor.

[Art Eatman]

C-W, go back and read my earlier post. :D

Art

[Bravo11]

FMJ
If the opposing force takes cover behind a wall I want to be able to rain thru the wall. Anything to my direct front is enemy.

[martialartsblackbelt]

rifle or hand gun?

[ccsniper]

isn't this not one of those subjects that gets locked?

[HGUNHNTR]

I always used to roll my eyes when people used "LOL" on forums, but Justin's quote definitely caused a genuine LOL.

Maybe wildcatting fecal piles from multiple animal species

Holy cow, wildcatting fecal piles, probably the funniest darned thing I have ever read online. WTG!

[atomd]

isn't this not one of those subjects that gets locked?

Why do you care so much and what is the difference between this thread and a FMJ VS JHP thread?

[Mags]

Why did we ressurect this 7 year old thread, created by a member who hasn't logged in for 6 years; just to ask "rifle or handgun" ? :confused:

[Geno]

The Real Mags asked:

Why did we ressurect this 7 year old thread, created by a member who hasn't logged in for 6 years; just to ask "rifle or handgun" ?

Apparently Blain didn't survive his SHTF situation. Someone should find out what he used (FMJ/soft point) and use the opposite.

Geno

[Mags]

^^^^^That's funny.

[Larry Ashcraft]

Why did we ressurect this 7 year old thread, created by a member who hasn't logged in for 6 years; just to ask "rifle or handgun" ?
Umm... Trolling?

Closed.