Where can I buy the FMJ .410 derringer?


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BigBlock
January 14, 2008, 04:45 AM
For a long time I've wanted to buy one of these things:

http://www.littlegun.be/derringer/sxs%202canons%20.45lc%20.410-01.jpg

Which as far as I can tell, is a Cobray/FMJ .410 derringer.

I've searched, and searched, and searched, and then I searched again. After that I searched some more. Then I searched again. I can't find one anywhere. I've read everything from "they've been out of business and out of production for years" to "I just bought a new one yesterday". Where the heck can I buy one of these things?!

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Snowdog
January 14, 2008, 11:42 AM
From the repution I've read of these, I don't know if I'm doing you a favor or disservice by helping you locate one, but here it goes:

The sell new from SOG (1-800-944-4867) and is listed as the "FMJ Derringer Model DD", part number FMJ-802400DB, listed price $109.95

If you buy one, post a range report if you get the time (or still have all your digits, :neener: ).

Good luck

doc2rn
January 14, 2008, 12:59 PM
Snowdog while getting him what he wanted may have been helpful, I would have steered him to a Bond Arms .45/.410

bhp9mm
January 14, 2008, 02:40 PM
does anybody no what it is made out of it just dont look like its made that good it looks scary to shoot

Deer Hunter
January 14, 2008, 03:54 PM
A friend of my dad's bought around 20 of those back in the day to sell to various people. Still has around 5. They kick badly with .45 colt.

BigBlock
January 14, 2008, 06:36 PM
Alright, thanks for the part number. Can anybody tell me more about "FMJ"? Do they have a website? I've also read about these things being sold in kit form, anybody know if such a thing exists?

BTW - I plan on making my own larger wood grips for it. ;)

spiroxlii
January 15, 2008, 01:36 AM
Check my sig. I have one! Exactly like the one in the picture. I'll post pics soon. If you've read my comments about it here on THR, you'll know that I'm not as happy with it as I once was.

Of course, mine has never been cleaned. My dad got it as a curiousity and then handed it down to me before I learned much about gun care, so I wrote it off as a "bad gun" a while back. Now that I actually know what I'm doing, I'm going to clean it up and give it another chance.

I've fired it with both .45LC and .410 shot shells. Because of its small grips and light weight, it kicks and the muzzle has a strong tendency to flip up. With practice, you can minimize that effect. I still don't think it's the most practical gun in the world, but it's fun for what it is. I've only seen it used against soda cans, snakes, and melons, and it was a blast in all three cases.

wolf_from_wv
January 17, 2008, 06:16 AM
Also try: Leinad .

I didn't think it was bad with .45s - but I was using handloads.

Acera
January 18, 2008, 10:16 PM
If you want something "nicer" check out these guys.

http://www.bondarms.com/

My cousin loves his, very easy to carry with a strong punch.

billdeserthills
January 19, 2008, 07:50 AM
I actually own one of the single barrel models of the FMJ, it is a reliable gun, although the way the safety works, will never be really a quick save your life type of shooter. I currently stock the single barrel model in my gun shop & it is made by Leonid. Also they have changed the safety a little bit- It Really Sucks now!
A friend had the exact gun you have pictured, he had trouble with the firing pin only working on one side consistantly. FWIW, I would pick the single barrel version over a Cobra or Hi Point anyday.

VE2RF
May 25, 2008, 09:44 AM
FMJ, Cobray, Leinad, Leinadi, Mountain Arms Corporation, SWD, WDA, and a few other names have were(or are) "sock puppet" and "dummy/holding corporations" for Sylvia and Wayne Daniel.

They were one of the biggest names in the mass production of the Ingram/MAC type guns, and they're also largely responsible for giving these guns a bad rep.

They're also the ones that did the MAC-10 ad that read "The Gun that made the 80's Roar".

Because of their advertising, the price point of their models, and the liberal media's hyperbole surrounding "sub-machine guns," "assault pistols and rifles", and "semi-auto killing machines", Wayne and Sylvia have also been sued several times by private individuals, cities, states, and even the Feds. They've also been the subject of an untold number of witchhunts.

Currently, both Wayne and Sylvia have residences in Copperhill TN. Wayne still has a machining facility and small warehouse operation where some of the various kits and parts are still made.

I grew up 15 minutes from Copperhill, and can say that Wayne and Sylvia were both very nice people, and they had a good reputation locally for the way they treated local people and customers. In fact, up until 2002, the Leinad business was listed in the local phone book.

While many people deride their customer service and quality, I somehow doubt that the number of people who spread these stories have ever owned one of their products, much less extensively shot them. Out of the people I've known who owned their firearms, overwhelming most were happy with the product, price, and customer support.

Example:
I know someone who bought an M11/9 from them that developed problems after the buyer used some Israeli "+P+ type" rounds which were marked specifically for use in rifles and carbines only. The guy was out of state, and he was exceptionally p.o.'d- p.o.'d to the point of being obnoxious and irrational. Wayne paid for shipping of the gun both ways, had his best machinist go through the gun, perform an action job, and then sent it back to the customer. The key was that the customer actually contacted Leinad and got them involved. Many of the people who have problems with these guns take them to a local gunsmith without much experience in dealing with these arms and then manages to screw them up worse than before- making a bad situation worse. There is something to be said for OEM's in some cases.

Anyway, I know this is an old post, just thought I'd throw in my two cents

MCgunner
May 25, 2008, 10:06 AM
Saw one at a gun show a while back for $150. :rolleyes: Pretty worthless if you ask me.

BBroadside
May 26, 2008, 12:29 AM
Welcome to The High Road, VE2RF.

I have little to add to your mini-biography. I certainly have never seen much online about these companies; never a website and only a few mentions on message boards. Duncan Long talks more about the SWD MACs in The Terrifying Three (he could easily have written a book that length just about versions of the Ingram, but there are also sections on Uzi and Intratec weapons).

Interestingly enough, that derringer forms the basis of a (almost) full-length .410 shotgun. Least expensive side-by-side I've ever seen, but I've never seen it reviewed.

spiroxlii
May 26, 2008, 10:15 AM
I recently said that I had one and didn't like it. After giving mine a good cleaning and taking it out for another spin, I've changed my mind... sort of. I'm talking about the Cobray/Leinad side by side version, because I have no experience with the over/under models from American Derringer or Bond Arms.

Mine is still an ergonomic nightmare. The grip isn't well suited to my large hand, and having a small poorly shaped grip doesn't help to tame recoil, so I end up with soreness in the web where my thumb joins my palm after I shoot a handful of cartridges. The other problem I sometimes have is with extraction. After you fire either brass .45LC cartridges or plastic .410 shells, you break the gun open to extract the spent cartridges manually. There is no extractor or ejector on this small cheap weapon. There's just a little indentation where you can work your fingernails or another spent cartridge under the rim of the chambered cartridge to pry it out. Sometimes the spent cartridges will just fall out or come out with very little effort. Sometimes they hang on for dear life and require a healthy yank with a set of pliers to come out, even when the weapon isn't dirty.

I'd use this gun to dispatch a snake in my path, and it would probably perform decently in that role, but only with .410 shells. I've tried 3 inch shells of No4 and No5 shot in it, and they seem to maintain a pattern dense enough to be useful out to about 10-15 feet. With .45LC cartridges from this short barrel, you can only really get "minute of bad guy" accuracy out to a few feet. I suppose if you wanted to use this derringer with .45LC at "card table" distance to shoot the guy hiding aces up his sleeve, you could.

michiana
July 23, 2008, 08:10 PM
Saw then on this web site for around $60 if you are still looking for one.
http://www.kyimports.com/fmj.htm

machinisttx
July 23, 2008, 09:27 PM
Don't waste your money. My wife made me buy one because it was "cute". The barrels are bored and rifled off center in mine, as well as the chambers not being concentric to the bore/rifling. It patterns very poorly with .410 shells. I haven't fired any .45 Colt through it because all of my handloads are +P stuff for my Ruger.

Buy a bond arms or something else of higher quality.

I'd equate the FMJ derringer to the Liberator .45 acp pistol of WW2. It'll work if you're close, but make sure you get a better gun ASAP.

spiroxlii
July 23, 2008, 09:58 PM
Haha. I hadn't thought of it that way, machinisttx... but you're right. These cheap FMJ/Cobray/Leinad .45/.410 derringers are just like the .45 Liberator "resistance weapons" of WWII.

"A great gun to get another gun with."

After some more time spent with mine, my opinion from two posts ago remains unchanged. I don't hate the one I have as long as I keep its limitations in mind, but I would not make the purchase again if I knew just how limited this weapon is.

Gord
July 23, 2008, 10:43 PM
How do they pattern at, say, four yards?

They're cheap, they look cool and the concept of a miniature .410 SxS in my hand tickles my fancy for whatever reason. I asked about 'em a while back (search "Leinad" and the thread may come up - guy posted a pic with his and a snake he'd just killed with it) and got the funniest line I've seen here in reply. It now resides in my sig line... :D

spiroxlii
July 23, 2008, 10:49 PM
I will take an exact measurement for you if you want, but the short answer is... at 4 yards using 3'' shells of No4 and No5 shot, my patterns were LARGE.

I was shooting at a piece of leftover drywall that was about 2' by 4', and the pattern was wider than 2' but not quite 4' in diameter. I did not notice too much of a "ring" pattern created by the gun's short rifled barrel; however, the entire pattern was pretty sparse.

clarence222
July 23, 2008, 11:20 PM
I have one of these and shooting 45 isnt bad but the 410 can be very painful, I dont guess I have figured out exactly how to old the thing to keep from injuring my fingers. Dont know if its le4gal and havent ever done it but was shown by a gunsmith how to remove the safety. I dont carry mine so I left it in place.

Also have one of the FP 45 Liberators from WWII although I havent shot it yet and really dont plan too

Squidward
July 24, 2008, 12:25 AM
Not exactly what you asked for but..

http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/revolvers.cfm

Gord
July 24, 2008, 12:52 AM
however, the entire pattern was pretty sparse.

Well, crap. Only reason I'd really want one is for close-range critter dispatching; if the pattern's full of holes, it's not really of any use to me...

spiroxlii
July 24, 2008, 12:53 AM
Well... people DO kill snakes with these things. I've seen it done. You need to be close to the snake, though... and you might have to fire both barrels... and you might have to finish the job with a shovel.

rnr4me
July 24, 2008, 01:05 PM
I've got one also. I got mine several years ago as novelty. I think I only paid $75 or so for it.

Like others have said it doesn't pattern well, it's not a shotgun after all. It does kick pretty well. You have to flip a lever to shoot the other barrel which is not easy and it's opposite. To the right will shoot the left barrel and vice versa.

But it's fun to shoot every now and then, but not for anything seriously. .45 colt is potent out of any firearm, so if you needed it for self defense, one shot would do some damage. But the followup shot would be very slow.

pioneer461
July 24, 2008, 02:16 PM
I once had a .38 spl. derringer, but it hurt to shoot it and I got rid of it.

machinisttx
July 24, 2008, 02:46 PM
How do they pattern at, say, four yards?

They're cheap, they look cool and the concept of a miniature .410 SxS in my hand tickles my fancy for whatever reason. I asked about 'em a while back (search "Leinad" and the thread may come up - guy posted a pic with his and a snake he'd just killed with it) and got the funniest line I've seen here in reply. It now resides in my sig line...

Very poorly. If you loaded 3" shells containing #9 shot, you might hit a snake or a field rat at that distance. I carried mine a couple of times while mowing around the pond and finally gave up on even hitting a snake with it.

My .357 snubby with shot loads works better.

Walkalong
July 24, 2008, 03:39 PM
Well, crap. Only reason I'd really want one is for close-range critter dispatching;A .44 Spl or Mag revolver with Speer shot capsules (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=788584) will pattern well and kill snakes and small rodents dead as a hammer at close range, plus you will have a nice pistola to shoot. They could be used in a nice Derringer as well. :)

RyanM
July 24, 2008, 04:47 PM
I recommend something more like this instead. You get an extra shot!

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=81348&stc=1&d=1215917294

Recoil is actually a lot less than I was expecting. It's about on par with .44 magnum, with target loads. And none of the pellets bounced off the wooden target holders.

Full power slugs are amazing. You get about a 2 foot wide fireball. Not sure how long it was, but probably very. Recoils about like a stout .454 Casull load.

mtngunr
July 26, 2008, 01:48 AM
Yes, they are cheap....yes, they are crude....yes, the single barrel .410 will kill a rattlesnake at 5yds....the safety is worse than useless, but what I did with mine was to stick an inverted fired .22LR case under the hammer, cocking the gun inverted to dump the case....safe carry, fairly fast to get into action, lighter cocking effort than many expensive derringers....the spur trigger will really get your knuckle if you hold high....local dealer has a used/nice-shape single for $65....suprisingly, mine never showed signs of shooting loose, despite using a roll-pin for a locking bolt....

KiltedClaymore
July 26, 2008, 02:08 AM
i saw they have a 5 shot pepperbox verson too! i wanna get me one of those!

Bennnn-the real one.
August 9, 2008, 08:10 PM
I bought one of these when they first came out years ago..

My thoughts,

It's a joke really, but it will break a beer bottle if you aim it right,, and you have to get used to holding it just right or it WILL frig your hand up.

Here's the one I play with about once every two or three years when I'm feeling froggy...

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5127/1001839qc7.jpg

kl0an
March 8, 2009, 08:08 PM
Sorry to bring up an old post but, I just picked up the Model DD at a local gun show in "kit" form. Apparently they sold these back in the early 80's as non-guns. Supposedly you can order the siderails and other parts you need to finish the gun off the internet.

Does anyone have any experience finding these parts?

madmike
April 13, 2009, 09:27 PM
kl0an: You can't generally buy finished parts to finish it. What you'll need to do is get thick sheet metal (I think they specified 11 gauge) and punch the appropriate holes.

If you get a high carbon steel or chrome moly, you can even heat treat it for more strength.

You'll need to either find instructions with patterns (should have come with the kit), or download them, or make your own pattern. If you email me, I may be able to help guide you through it.

PT1911
April 13, 2009, 09:40 PM
a friend of mine had one....picked it up at a local pawn shop... thing looked and felt like it was made out of cast iron.... no fun to shoot the 45 colts..

kl0an
April 17, 2009, 06:22 PM
Thanks MadMike.. I'll drop you an email tonight or this weekend. I've done some extensive searching for the plans and/or parts. I spoke to a guy named Dick the other day from Leinad in Tennessee and he mentioned a place called Lee Engineering out of Chattanooga that was selling the parts but, didn't have any contact info. I'm still trying to track that one down..

madmike
April 17, 2009, 07:42 PM
They're simple plates and should be pretty easy--holes in the right place, contour, heat treat, paint or parkerize.

SniperStraz
September 23, 2009, 12:06 AM
I feel like this would make a perfect car gun. Any thoughts?

madmike
September 23, 2009, 12:09 AM
Not really. .410 is about as powerful as .38 or .357...in a 24" barrel. Granted, shotguns don't lose power for length the way rifles do, but out of a 4" derringer, it's not a significant stopper. It's also very inaccurate. It fires .45 LC just for legal reasons---accuracy with them sucks, as does power.

They're basically an intimidating gimmick.

wilkisport
August 28, 2010, 06:40 AM
Hi, does your dad you still have any .410 pistols left....best regards TW

milehighbear
September 26, 2010, 05:49 PM
I live here in colorado and just got back from a gun show. I bought the little 410 or 45LC that is shown in first picture. After I bought it, my friend that was with me wanted one and they didn't have anymore and we checked all the other vendors and they wanted some to sell but couldn't find them. After I shoot this I will come back and tell you my feelings on it. By the way, I only paid 60.00 for it. I figured it was a good deal. I do like the way that the safety is set and how you have to take it off. Don't have any kids at home anymore so that is good. I bought it for camping and going on long trips for Just In Case.

confederatemule
November 12, 2010, 01:19 PM
I know this is an old thread, but I'd like to add my opinion of the FMJ Gun.

I have the single barrel version. They are almost identical.

I like mine. It fits my small hand and I don't notice it kicking any harder than any other derringer type gun. As a matter of fact, I can hang on to it better than I can my NAA .22LR, NAA .22Mag, Cobra .22Mag, Bauer .25 Automatic, Ruger LCR and Ruger LCP.

"I my opinion", it is as dependable, accurate, and easy to shoot as any other 45/410 small type pistol. Granted, it is not as shiny, nor is it a revolver, but it does the same job [for me].

I would like to have a FMJ double barrel and a FMJ 5 shot revolver. I'd also like to have the over/under 22LR over 45/410.

mgkdrgn
November 13, 2010, 10:09 AM
A friend of my dad's bought around 20 of those back in the day to sell to various people. Still has around 5. They kick badly with .45 colt.
If they "kick bad with 45 Colt" they must just be a joy to fire in .410!

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