[Steve Smith]

I'd like to build or buy a good HD shotgun, but have a few questions and a problem.

#1 it is very important to note that I have sold many guns in my lifetime and haven't regretted a single one. I'm not a "don't sell it" type.

Ok, I have a 28" Mossy 500A that my (late) dad gave to me for my birthday way back when, maybe 16 or 17 years ago. Frankly, I'm not really crazy about the gun now. I have a "sentimental" piece from him, so I think I could sell this one with a clear conscience. All this gun does is sit in the safe. If I were to get into trap or hunting I'd most likely buy a Montefeltro. IOW, I cannot conceive a time that I'll need this gun.

I'm eyeballing the 870s and 1300 defenders. Not really sure which one to go after. Seems like 18" barrel, ghost rings sights, long magazine, and standard stock (maybe a little short since I'm 5'7" on a tall day) and that oughtta be it for me. Then I'll get some skoolin.

I would consider upgrading the Mossy I have now, but I'm wondering if its really worth it. I'd need, at the very least: to figure out how to increase the mag capacity, buy a new barrel with ghost rings (half the cost of a shotgun!), and IIRC there's something that supposedly "weak" in the Mossy action that I'd have to fix. Seems like I'd double the cost of that Mossy and have an ugly shotgun to show for it. On the good side, the ergonomics are great.


Anxiously awaiting your suggestions.

[Andrew Wyatt]

well, there are a couple options.


1. you can buy the mossberg 500 "security" long mag tube 20 inch at big five for 219, replace the safety, and have the GR front sight installed by silver soldering or with a little millwork and screws. (i used screws.)


2. you can buy another shotgun.


3. you can acquire a long mag tube and barrel from a parts house. this is less expensive than the other two, but not by much.


if you're willing to sell the gun, and like the ergos, consider getting a 500 or 590.

[HSMITH]

Steve, pick up a used 870 express and keep the 500, you never know when you might want to have something like that around and they are not worth anything. That old it has a fixed choke so it would likely bring $75 or so, not enough to hassle with really.

The 870 express used can usually be had for somewhere between $140 and $200 depending on condition. A rough one would be fine and give many years of service.

You can cut the barrel yourself if you are somewhat handy with hand tools and do a good job, or you can farm it out to a gunsmith. Farming it out is not a bad idea, because you will have to find and buy the tap for the bead to put the bead back on. A cylinder bore barrel is perfect for home defense and works fine with slugs out to 50 yards or so, there is no need for choke installation or anything like that. Just chop it off and go with it.

The ghost ring sights are not necessary and at home defense ranges are not practical. A good set will run as much as half another gun or a whole bunch of ammo would cost. A front bead is all that I would recommend, and even with slugs hits on man sized targets at 50 yards is dead easy with just a bead.

Cutting the stock is a good idea, at 5'7" with a medium build an inch would be a good starting point. If you are a little heavy an inch may not be enough and if you are skinny it might be too much. You can always cut more off but adding it back is a real pain. Again this is easy to do at home, then put the recoil pad back on and sand it to match the new stock contour.

The magazine extension is a simple scew on affair after you iron out the dimples in the mag tube. You can either drill them out or swage them out. That has been covered plenty so we don't need to hash it out again.

If you farmed all the work out to a gunsmith you should be looking for about $100-125 to cut the barrel, iron out the dimples, mount the bead and cut the stock. Add that to the cost of a used gun and see where that puts you against a new one. Each thing you do yourself would cut costs also.

There are all sorts of tacticool:rolleyes: doo dads and gadgets to hang on your shotgun, few of them are of value. Get yourself a good quality shotgun and learn to shoot it.

Hope this helps.

[Edward429451]

Steve, I got an 870 set up pretty much like you describe. You're welcome to stop by and check it out for fit, handling, etc.. I also have a 870 Youth that would let you feel the shorter stock fit to give you an idea there too.

My grain of salt advice is to look around for a used 870 express, or even better, a used Wingmaster. I found a used WM for 200 out the door at a pawn shop...

Gimmee a PM if you want to stop by for a look see.:)

[Steve Smith]

What's the difference between the Police, Wingmaster, and Express lines, besided finish and stock?

[Poodleshooter]

Steve you mentioned an 18" barrel in your criterion. You really can't add more than 1 round capacity to a regular 5+1 round tube and stay under the 18" limit. Most 7+1's have 20" barrels.
The Mossberg 18" barrel set with the ghost ring setup is $150 from Gun Parts Corp. The stripped 18" barrel runs $53. I purchased one from them a few years back, and put it on my basic 5+1 Mossberg. It's lighter and shorter than most of the newer riot guns, but works just fine for me.
An 8shot magazine tube and a new spring are all you need to upgrade to an 8 shot model. The tubes simply screw in an out of the receiver. Total cost for switching capacity is about $34 for tube and spring + new barrel cost of about $100. I looked at converting a few years back, but didn't follow through with it.
The main reason I listed this is that you won't get anything for a used Mossberg, and they're really decent shotguns for the money.
Otherwise, just pony up for a nice Wilson Combat or a Benelli.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Take a look at the online goodies at Cheaper Than Dirt. You could swap the barrel for an 18 or 20 incher ($63.20), put on a Speedfeed ($74.58) or folding (ugh) stock($49.97), heat shield, flashlight, extended mag tube, and all the other Mall Ninja doodads and still be in it for cheap enough, if you don't really want to buy one and get another 4473 out there.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com

Regards,
Rabbit.

[Steve Smith]

Swamp Rabbit, don't want the bling, just the bang.


Poodleshooter, both the 1300 Defender and the 870 Police are advertised as 18" with extended mags. Am I missing something?

HSMITH, thanks for the info. After using the search feature I see that the ghost ring isn't a big favorite indoors.


That 1300 Defender looks mighty tempting, folks.

[HSMITH]

That 1300 Defender looks mighty tempting, folks.

That 1300 is also a pretty darn solid shotgun, real close if not even to the 870 and the 590. You won' t be sorry with the 1300 if that is what you end up with.....

[Steve Smith]

Ok, did some shopping. I can get the 870 Police for $350 new and the 1300 Defender for about $240. Is there $100 worth of difference? Time to go handle some shotguns.

One question. On the 870 police, I see that its listed with both a 18" or 20" barrel (I must choose when I order). I wonder if the mag tube is longer on the 20"? Does anyone know?

[Darrin]

Just a FWIW kind of thing...

I have the 590. 20" barrel, 8 shot tube, marinecote finish.
I'm 5'8", 135lbs.

Two things I don't like about it:
1. Stock is about 1" too long. Can't cut the synthetic stock and still keep the pad that's on it. (If I'm wrong, someone please PM me with how I can shorten it!)
2. Forearm grip is small. My fingers are slightly long and I 'over-grab' the forearm and burn my fingertips on the barrel. Therefore, I'm now eyeballing a new hogue forearm.

Otherwise, awesome shotgun. I paid $445 out the door, but if you leave off the marinecote finish, you lose almost half that price.

Think you can make it to our THR shoot on the weekend of Aug. 9th or 10th? ;) You can shoot my 590.

[Andrew Wyatt]

i cut a full inch and a half off my 500 stock and still have the original pad.

I just cut and reinstalled. I'm 5'8, 170 pounds, and it still needs another half inch off.

[Ringer]

Take a look here 870 Police Wood (http://www.remingtonle.com/shotgun/870pwood.htm), looks like there is a wood stock 20" with 4+1 or 7+1 and rifle sights. And here 870 Police Synthetic (http://www.remingtonle.com/shotgun/870psyn.htm), looks like the synthetic is 4+1 or 6+1. There are quite a few configurations, maybe you can find the model number you saw for $350 listed on Remington's web page, I know places like Gunfinder use the factory order number.

[HSMITH]

Steve, although I prefer the 870 I have to be honest, there is NOT $100 difference in the 870 and the 1300. At those prices the 1300 is a no-brainer. Check into the Mossy 590 also, it is a FINE shotgun with the safety where it belongs!!!

Darrin, take it to a competent smith. Shortening that stock is entirely possible but is not an average kitchen table type job. The pad needs to be milled down where it fits securely in the stock again, the pad is a structural part of the stock on your gun.

[Poodleshooter]

Poodleshooter, both the 1300 Defender and the 870 Police are advertised as 18" with extended mags. Am I missing something?
Nope, I am-1 round to be specific. No matter what barrel length, you'll lose at least 1 round with a Mossberg 500 setup, due to the barrel screw and the barrel attachment ring taking away about 1.5" of mag tube length. With the 18" Mossy 500 you lose two rounds because it doesn't run to the end of the barrel.
IOW, a 20"bbl Mossberg 500 is 7+1 (they call it an 8 shot in their catalog), 18" is 5+1 or "6 shot" (the tube doesn't run to the end of the barrel). It takes the 590 to get 8+1 from the Mossberg series with a 20" barrel.
The Remington and Winchester have extensions for 7+1 under 18" tubes, and 8+1 under the 20" tube. The stock Remington Police's with 18" bbl are 7+1 config,IIRC.
It's been about 13 years since I owned a 1300 so I'll chock that up to forgetfullness.

[Dave McCracken]

While I'm a stone cold 870 fan,and an 870 is always a good choice, there's other good shotguns out there. That includes the ones mentioned here.

Keep your 500 for fun stuff like trap, skeet and SC. Buy a nice used "Serious" style 500-590 for a few hundred. Shoot it sometimes, and shoot your Dad's gift frequently. With the same controls and "Chops", practice with one is practice with the other.Before dismissing the idea of clay target shooting as having application for defense, bust 10 double trap,skeet or SC targets in a row. If one can destroy two 4" clay discs moving on different vectors at 35-50 MPH in very short time frames, acquiring and destroying the CNS (About 4" wide, max) of two perps moving much slower is much easier.

More crucial than brand, though, is fit. At your size, consider the "Youth" stock. More than "Yutes" can benefit thereby. Use a good pad and good form.

HTH...

[Steve Smith]

Dave, I get what you're saying about keeping all the controls the same, but I know this Mossy is doomed to collect dust. Might as well start over with things I like. So, when the time comes to hit some clays I'll be in the market for something that will more likely match what I buy now, rather than the old 500 in the safe. Some things are just hard to like, I reckon.

Ringer, you won't find any Police models marked for $350 on Remington's site. That's my price...different thing. They are closer to $450 or more retail I think.


Actually, I can't find the Police models on Remington's site at all. Can someone help me?

[Ringer]

Steve

I know you won't find any on Rem's website for $350, I just meant you could use their webpage as a reference to look up the one you can get for that price.

Did you try the links in my post? Remington's main LE web address is www.remingtonle.com (http://www.remingtonle.com)

Hmmm, I can't seem to get to any Remington site at the moment, maybe they are down at the moment.

[Steve Smith]

Oops. missed your links. Thanks!

[Preacherman]

Steve, I'd recommend looking for a used 870 Wingmaster and adding the bits and pieces you want. I scored two in GREAT condition for very reasonable prices not too long ago, and there are others out there. I expect you'd have to pay $250-$300 for one, and then you can buy the Choate magazine extension. You can find them with 21" rifle-sighted barrels, if you look around, or simply buy another barrel (they come fairly cheap if you know where to look). At any event, you'll come in at (probably) a lower price than a new Police model, and have the nicer finish, better wood and smoother action of the Wingmaster to boot.

[Dave McCracken]

OK, Steve, you call it.

Now, I'd say you should get a used 870, maybe a beater turnin, and upgrade as time and finances dictate. Later, pick up an old WM or three for fun and games.

[Steve Smith]

Ok, guys, I realy appreciate the advice. I'll let you know what I do. First, I have to go to Camp Perry and shoot for two weeks. If I have money left over I'll go shotgun hunting. Thanks again!

[RandyB]

I have an Ithaca 37, Rem 870 police, and win 1300. I like all of them and they do the following:

Ithaca: bird/rabbit hunting. Shoot skeet/trap etc.
1300: Deer hunting
870: TO prtect my family.

I've had an Ithaca 87 police and liked it alot, except that being a lefty I'd go to shoot and push the safety back on when I brought the gun up. Not good in a self-defense situation.

The Win. is great in that the safety is forward of the 870 so I can't accidental push it back on safe, but if just doesn't handle as good as my 37 or my 870

The 870 is what I grew up shooting (in 16 gauge). My brother owns two, on 20 and one 12. I've had three 870's and modified the heck out of all of them. The 20' allows you to intall an tube extender with one more round vs. an 18. I currently have a 20' barrel, but would have preferred the 18" (I got a heck of a better deal with the 20" however)

Bottom line. Any of them will work, but pick the one that 'feels best' and gives you the most confidence.

[Edward429451]

Hey, make us proud at Camp Perry, and doan let no 17 yr old girls beat you, LOL.:D :neener:

[Steve Smith]

Geez, man, I'll have to shoot really well to prevent that. She hands me my (rear end) regularly.

[Andrew Wyatt]

what's her name and is she single?

[Edward429451]

Nothing like a pretty girl on the range to distract a man, eh?:D

Met Earl & Jeff, seem like real nice guys. Radiate pure Americana. Saved me a chunk so you'll have a cold one waitin on ya on your return...Whats your flavor?:)

[Steve Smith]

Andrew, yes, she's single, she's 17 year old for cryin' out loud! Yes, she's very cute. And almost a High Master. A threat to all boys and men, 16-90.


Pure Americana is the BEST way to describe Earl and Jeff. No better Patriots on earth. I hope you got a club application.

[Edward429451]

Sure did. Got to re-up my NRA membership first though. Sneaky and yet productive. Good policy, good people.

[Steve Smith]

Shiner.